It isn't "The Iraq War" - It is "The Occupation of Iraq"

[IndyOp]

Change the frame and you win the argument.

Thom Hartmann is working hard to change the frame so that we can MOVE the 'debate' away from the 'stuck places' that the Republicans want us to stay on....

If it is the IRAQ WAR: The Rethugs say we can't leave because we can't lose a war; we can't cut-and-run because that is cowardly. The Dem politicians and talking heads say we can't abandon the good Iraqis to their fate at the hands of the insurgents; we can't leave and allow civil war to 'break out.'

If it is the IRAQ OCCUPATION - then we can and should GET OUT NOW. Their "Vice Pres" has asked for a timetable for the US to leave. Over 80% of Iraqis want the US out NOW.

This is NOT a war - it is an occupation. As much as you think 'war' has negative connotations, 'occupation' has more...

Change the frame and you win the argument and, maybe, we mitigate the horrendous suffering of the Iraqi people and US troops that are being used and abused.

END THE OCCUPATION OF IRAQ!

==================================

Another 'frame shift' - Going into Iraq wasn't an invasion or liberation - it was an illegal attack on an unarmed nation. The Bushies would not have invaded if they did not KNOW that Iraq could not fight back. They would not have invaded if they did not KNOW that they would quickly subdue the Iraqi military.

If anyone was unconvinced that this was all about the oil and getting permanent bases in the country - I hope the recent revelation of the plan to permanently keep 50,000 troops in Iraq at the largest 'embassy' in the world (larger than the vatican) has shaken you to see the truth.

Real Shock & Awe: After 15 Years War, Sanctions 1,000,000 Iraqis Dead

[bigtree]

1. I've been told this

I think occupation seems like a settling rather than a conflict. That's just me. I use both in the same argument.

[msongs]

2. words matter - to republicans! agree with you, it is the OCCUPATION, so

if our dems elected people would start phrasing things correctly, our position would be stronger.

War crimes against humanity are NOT supposed to be an american family value are they?

we won, let's go home.

edit: PS, a country that is occupied by a foreign invader is NOT a democracy.


Msongs

Can you sing?
www.msongs.com/vocalistwanted.htm

[IndyOp]

4. A country that is occupied by a foreign invader is NOT a democracy.

Exactly. Reasonable conclusions follow from discussing Iraq as an occupation.

:thumbsup:

[Vogt]

9. This is an interesting point...

"edit: PS, a country that is occupied by a foreign invader is NOT a democracy."

Because while it is true that no people can truly be ruled by their own will when there is a foreign army of domination lording over them (see Israel-Palestine and Russia-Chechnya), it is quite possible, if not altogether probable, that the people groaning under said military occupation will use the "right to vote" to bring into power more extreme elements of society who are virulently opposed to the humiliation inherently present in occupation (again, see Israel-Palestine and Russia-Chechnya). This will only spiral into indefinite madness as the parties that are elected into office will be fundamentally opposed to the core interests of the occupying hyper power, thus causing the latter - the "liberator and spreader of democracy" - to subvert and thwart the parties that are the very manifestation of that great gift of democracy. So then the very hyper power who traveled half way around the world and killed a couple hundred thousand human beings in order to give them democracy actually end up actively working to kill the results of said democracy and thus do nothing but deepen their already putrid reputation in the theater of death and the greater world for war-mongering, murder, pillage, torture, lies and HYPOCRISY. Keep on truckin' Bushies. Onward Christian sololololdiers...

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. There is the big difference

The US is the occupying power in Iraq. It is up to the US to maintain law and order and to provide safety and basic services for the Iraqi people. Unfortunately, since we can do none of the above, it is time for us to turn over control to another authority, either the Iraqi people or UN Peacekeepers.

BushCo sees Iraq has a war and responds to all problems with the heavy hand of military force. Until we change this way of seeing Iraq, there will never be peace in that country.

[rock]

5. It has always been an invasion followed by

an occupation to me.

[IndyOp]

7. You (and I) are in the minority. In the corporate media

it was the "Liberation" for the longest, longest time. Then 'war' -- and people get all tied up in, excited by hearing about the battles and the weapons and the 'wins'. The 'battle against the insurgents' -- winds up sounding more like a war than an occupation to most people. The media hypes war talk because it gets people to pay attention.

Disgusting in oh, so many ways.

[Jim Warren]

6. Yes and kick it

Keep up the good work, get that word out, they are masters at framing.

The media is complicit.

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. Even the war....

....wasn't a war.

It was the world's most expensive campaign commercial.

Did the job in 2002 and 2004. It will work in 2006, too, if people don't stop waffling -- I'm looking at you, Mrs. Clinton -- and start talking timetables, conditions and withrawl, at the very least.

[IndyOp]

11. I *wish* Mrs. Clinton would make use of the fact that the VP of Iraq -

has requested a Time Table for US exit. I know this is fairly new information, but still...

Also I heard that the women of Code Pink were the people who booed Mrs. C. at the Take Back America conference -- I say, "Good Job!"

[JackRiddler]

10. k & r

[IndyOp]

12. Kick!