This is what is wrong with the democrats today

[still_one]

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Matalin_Carville_plan_pricey_Libby_bash_0619.html

How can someone like James Carville be a Democratic strategist, married to a neocon, and how can we expect to have our interests protected?

[devilgrrl]

1. They're all a bunch of Corporate Toadies

Why do you think most of them are silent? They're in on it.

[redqueen]

3. NOT all!

Or do you include Kucinich in that group?

[devilgrrl]

7. There are a few that are good progressives, unfortunately most aren't

:shrug:

Boxer, Harken and Kucinich are the only palatable ones, the rest can kiss my ass.

[still_one]

9. need to also put Feingold, Conyers, Barbara Lee in that list

plus some others

[mitchtv]

21. Lynne Woolsey

one of the better ones.

[Terran1212]

14. Conyers, Lee, Jackson-Lee, Lewis, McKinney

Pretty much everyone in the Black Caucus and many of the Congressional Progressive Caucus I would say are good.

[SavetheUSA]

26. Conyers, Lee, Woolsey....

voted yes on the Iran Freedom Support Act to spread freedom to Iran and hold them accountable....for what?? Why do they help Bush perpetuate lies?

[SavetheUSA]

25. Boxer is cosponsoring the "Iran Freedom Support Act" in the senate

There might still be time to ask her to take her name off of that however

[still_one]

4. I am afraid you are right, we obviously have some Democratic

neocons in Congress

This is why it is quite important to start challenging these people. We will start with Ned Lamont, and work our way one seat at a time

[redqueen]

12. That's the spirit!

No defeatism! If you're gonna do that, you may as well get off this site and join the apathetic masses.

The challenge now is to push HARD for public financing of campaigns and clean elections.

[still_one]

15. No defeatism here, and I expect it is going to be a long process

I hope eventually we can get throw the lobbists out of Washington, and do as you suggest, public financing of campagins

[SavetheUSA]

24. Silent far too often....

Downing Street memo, election fraud, lies about Iran, illegal wiretapping

they have enabled Bush every step of the way

[enough already]

2. This makes me vomit

Unreal

[still_one]

5. That is why we MUST bring liberal/progressives into the party

we have been sold out by some

[Bitter Cup]

6. People like James see it all as a game

They don't see governments or parties as real entities with much meaning. They see dollars and power as the goal. We forget how few actual patriots or even dedicated "LIBERALS" or for that matter "Conservatives" are engaged in politics. Most people at a real notable position are there for the prize of being personally wealthy and powerful. All the rest is window dressing.

James and Mary just have a more unique sideshow where they market themselves, but when they sit alone together at night and think about which house to buy, or which party to go to, they are having the same discussion as everyone else in DC in the top 1% of earners. The real worry that OUR kids can't go to a decent school or get heath care, or that people around the world are dying for our oil addiction is hardly a concern at all.

Issues are a means of scoring points...not meaningful in themselves to these punidts. Might as well think of them like that knife in the drawer. It doesn't have morals or a conscience that resonates wth you. It's a tool. It cuts, and if you can use it on your meat then it's great, but if it is used against you then it's a threat.

[still_one]

8. This will backfire on them, and the DLC

Anything good that came from the Clinton administration, is slowly disintigrating into a pile of crap

Maybe bill cannot rub noses with old man bush, or hillary with murdock

People are becoming very wise to them

[theoldman]

10. James and Mary are earning a lot of money.

Just because they make a show of being in opposite political parties does not mean that they do not have a good marriage. My wife and I disagree on a lot of things but we still stay married.

[Raine]

11. Yeah, really.

People like Carville make money no matter who holds office and that's what matters to them. It's all a game to them but it's real life to everyone else.

[Bitter Cup]

23. Exactly

nt

[Tempest]

13. No where does it say Carville is involved in any way

"How can someone like James Carville be a Democratic strategist, married to a neocon, and how can we expect to have our interests protected?"

1) Are you saying Democrats and Liberals should have pre-arranged marriages, despite who they fall in love with?

2) Since when was Carville put in charge of our interests? If you want your interests protected, don't rely on someone to do it for you.

[still_one]

16. I do NOT rely on Carville, but leaders in the party do

As far as your comment about "pre-arranged" marriages, no they can marry anyone they want, I just don't want them to be determining the future of the Democratic party because I DON'T TRUST THEM. It is not like a brother, sister, or parent where you have no choice, marriage is a choice between two parties, and this is NOT a game. How can you trust someone who is married to a neocon? Matilin defends Coulter's attacks on 9/11 widows, Max Cleland, John Murtha, Liberals, etc. Guilt by association is wrong, but I do NOT want them advising my party, a marriage is TOO CLOSE a relationship to trust confidentiality of party strategy with a neocon.

If two people are married with such different ideologies, then either they DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE IDEOLOGY, or they are only in it for the money. Either way it is a lose/lose situation for us since we need people with conviction

[Dogmudgeon]

17. Yes. He's a bad man. It's all HIS fault. None of it is ours.

After all, James Carville is just about the same as our Dad was. His word is law, and we are helpless to change it. When he speaks, we must listen and obey. And most of us would say that he's a major dick (at least when we're fifteen or sixteen).

And like Mary Matalin, Mom is a super mega hyper mondo bitch. (Or is that the other way around?)

And they're all WHORES! TRAITORS! WHORES! TRAITORS!

Right? Right?

Folks, if we keep expecting "them" to do the work that WE should be doing, and to be our surrogate parents, scoutmasters, and teachers, we're sunk. S-U-N-fucking-K, SUNK.

So listen to Carville. Consider his ideas. His point of view is certainly worth more than Wolf Blitzer's or Anderson Cooper's. Think about what he's saying, and feel free to disagree. Then figure out your own course of action, and do it -- instead of expecting to "have our interests protected".

Sweet Baby Jesus on the Cross, Incorporated, the Democrats have never been a disciplined party, but at no time in the history of our republic has our kind of politics been more badly needed. Let us fight among ourselves until our doorsteps are bloody, but NEVER forget who -- and WHERE -- the Enemy is.

The Democratic Party isn't a service organization that works like the Make-A-Wish Foundation. It's a political party. YOU are that party. You and James are peers, and I think I can safely say that James sees that one the same way. If you want to get your nose out of joint every time you disagree with one of your co-partisans who gets a little face time on TV, you need to seriously re-think the politics thing.

Who thinks the Government is a service organization, anyway? Who expects it to be our paid lackey? THE REPUBLICANS, that's who! We are DEMOCRATS. We believe that "the Government" isn't some abstraction, it's WE, THE PEOPLE. It's the REPUBLICANS who expect to be catered to like queen termites. And it is long past time that WE abandoned that attitude. It has brought us naught but destruction. NOBODY will "protect our interests" except US!

Incidentally, this isn't an idle rant or a personal gripe; I'm quite serious about this. The passive "I wanna be served" attitude is wa-a-a-ay too prevalent. And we ought to make Job One proving the Commentariat dead wrong; they think they know our minds better than we do ourselves, and they don't. (Well, Job One after destroying the Republican Party.)

And if James needs his own ass kicked, it's our foot that has to do the kicking. If we get active and vocal enough to make him (and other high-profile Democrats) expend some effort re-thinking his own positions, the health of the Democratic party -- and the Democracy -- will be assured.

Fuck the whining. Let's all get out there and kill some pachyderm!

--p!

[still_one]

18. Yes I agree with you, and NO I AM NOT WHINING

but we must bring in new blood to the party

[Dogmudgeon]

19. On that, I agree

Naah, I don't think you're whining, but this kind of topic tends to encourage a certain anger-plus-passivity. Frustration is running high these days. That's why I ranted. You can't deal with the 800-pound gorilla in the room when there's also an enormous, filthy elephant shitting all over the place. It puts us and the gorilla in the same proverbial boat.

Conservative Democrats helped the party survive a couple of tight spots -- twenty years ago. Now, it's time to be Democrats again. Rather than shitcan people like James and Hillary, I think we ought to tighten the leash a little -- firmly, but gently and artfully. I think they'd happily come back over to the left if we gave them a couple of Damned Good Reasons and a little hope. A lot of the more progressive Democrats seem to have forgotten just how much power they actually have. Wisdom, vision, and optimism (and just a bit of piss-n-vinegar for taste) make a much better foundation for empowerment than frustration-and-anger -- although frustration-and-anger does get people off the couch.

And we can certainly learn from the things they're effective at. Carville and Senator Clinton are not devoid of skills, savvy, and they also still have quite a number of liberal and progressive ideals. And we can use them.

I'm sure there will be electoral and policy stumbles along the way. But if we can set the political and ideological agenda until mid-century, we ought to be able to avoid the potentially lethal and genocidal crises we will soon be facing with respect to the climate, the environment, and our (mis)use of energy. That is a future worth fighting for -- a golden age instead of a massive die-off and regress into barbarism. We avoided extinction through world war, through fascism, and through nuclear war, but our struggle isn't over yet. I disdain wasting people, even born-again weasels like "Joementum" (although he's looking increasingly like a lost cause, anyway -- still, won't be happy about cutting him loose).

You had enough initiative to post, and that's a lot better than simply reacting to being frustrated. My reaction was, of course, theater, and I appreciate your not making it a personal issue, as often happens. I'd simply like the process of turning the frustration we all feel into action to involve as little random rage as possible. We have history, reason, idealism, heart and soul on our side. Bringing people like James Carville and Hillary Clinton back into the fold should be as easy as saying, "the storm is over; let's everybody get back into the pool!"

--p!

[still_one]

20. again I agree with you, and you are right posts like this can

encourage defeatism, but I would hope it would encourage determination for people to become active

[oasis]

22. Disgraced former congressman Bob Livingston will be in attendance.

:puke: