With AT&T's big FUCK YOU!, have found list of who is selling out to NSA

[Whoa_Nelly]

So, in looking to dump AT&T/Yahoo and DISH here in CA, and since Qwest isn't available here, am thinking of going with Cox Communications

http://news.com.com/Some+companies+helped+the+NSA,+but+which/2100-1028_3-6035305.html

Who's helping the NSA?

CNET News.com asked telecommunications and Internet companies about cooperation with the Bush administration's domestic eavesdropping scheme. We asked them: "Have you turned over information or opened up your networks to the NSA without being compelled by law?"

Company Response
Adelphia Communications Declined comment
AOL Time Warner No <1>
AT&T Declined comment
BellSouth Communications No
Cable & Wireless* No response
Cablevision Systems No
CenturyTel No
Charter Communications No <1>
Cingular Wireless No <2>
Citizens Communications No response
Cogent Communications* No <1>
Comcast No
Cox Communications No
EarthLink No
Global Crossing* Inconclusive
Google Declined comment
Level 3* No response
Microsoft No <3>
NTT Communications* Inconclusive <4>
Qwest Communications No <2>
SAVVIS Communications* No response
Sprint Nextel No <2>
T-Mobile USA No <2>
United Online No response
Verizon Communications Inconclusive <5>
XO Communications* No <1>
Yahoo Declined comment
* = Not a company contacted by Rep. John Conyers.
<1> The answer did not explicitly address NSA but said that compliance happens only if required by law.
<2> Provided by a source with knowledge of what this company is telling Conyers. In the case of Sprint Nextel, the source was familiar with Nextel's operations.
<3> As part of an answer to a closely related question for a different survey.
<4> The response was "NTT Communications respects the privacy rights of our customers and complies fully with law enforcement requests as permitted and required by law."
<5> The response was "Verizon complies with applicable laws and does not comment on law enforcement or national security matters."


Another article directly from Cox:

http://www.cox.com/omaha/newsroom.asp#May_12,0
May 12, 2006
Cox Customer Information Not Released to NSA

USA Today recently published a story stating that certain phone companies have provided customer phone records to the National Security Agency (NSA). Cox has not had any involvement in this program and does not supply customer phone or Internet records to the NSA.

The Cable Act of 1984 is very specific in terms of its protections for customer privacy and fairly restrictive on what operators must do. Cox would not voluntarily provide customer information unless it was required by law, usually through a subpoena.

As a telecommunications provider, Cox Communication places a high value on our customers’ privacy and remains committed to respecting that privacy.

[rodeodance]

1. Rec.

[Ian David]

2. Bush signed an executive order giving the companies license to lie...

about their involvement in The NSA program.

I wouldn't trust a company just because when CNET called them, they pleaded innocent.

I'd switch to Working Assets.

[SteppingRazor]

4. True, but I doubt many corporate lawyers...

would put a whole lot of stock in that order. They'd more likely tell the company to issue statements such as those found in footnotes 4 and 5

[3waygeek]

34. Note, however, that

Negroponte has the power to waive SEC rules so that companies don't have to report anything.

[Whoa_Nelly]

9. Ahhhh...yes! WIll definitely check into Working Assets today!

Thanks! :hi:

[SteppingRazor]

3. I use T-Mobile for phone and Comcast for cable...

looks like I'm free and clear :thumbsup:

[truebrit71]

21. Me too.

Cool!!!

[peaches2003]

5. An Out on an honest answer

I know I read when this whole NSA thing first came to light that most of these companies were giving their lists to some intermediary who then gave the info to NSA and therefore could say 'No, we didn't give anything to NSA'. This is how Bell South and probably Cingular are getting away with this. Randi had a whole thing on her show about this, I think. Can't remember the SOB she interviewed.

But there's no investigation and the public has gone on to something else, so it's over.

[Warpy]

6. This list provides a great service

for those of us who wish to avoid cowardly corporations who sacrifice our rights on the altar of political expediency. Recommended.

I've had Qwest for years for land line and DSL. I am delighted I don't have to dump them in favor of a patchwork of services. Telling the NSA to jump in a lake was their finest hour.

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. Instead of "turned over" or "shared information" the real question

should be, "Have you SOLD information to the Government about your customers/consumers."

It's been completely under the radar that, apparently, while the Government can't "collect" information, there's nothing illegal about them "buying" information. Let that sink in...So, when a company answers they haven't shared or turned over or given or whatever they are they being truthful or lying by omission?

It needs to be investigated whether the companies are SELLING information either directly or through a government contract.

[On the Road]

18. Actually, I Suspect It Would be the Opposite

There are certain situations in which Local telco customer names and addresses can be sold, for example, to long-distance companies. Those are charged for. This is a very different thing, closer to responding to a subpoena. It also involves call records, which are never for sale.

The companies may be using weasel words, but not because they charged for the data.

[peacetalksforall]

8. Thanks for posting. Very helpful. .. nt

[meisje]

10. Everyone is helping , if not, they are using at&t's lines and well....

[City Lights]

11. I recently gave AT&T the boot.

:woohoo:

I now have Comcast for cable, high speed internet, and home phone, and U.S. Cellular for cell phone.

[Whoa_Nelly]

12. I can get Comcast here in CA. Did you check them out thoroughly re: NSA?

Only asking because even though I posted the list in my OP, Am not up-to-date on which companies can be totally trusted at this point. Am starting to lean toward Working ASsests, maybe Cox Communications. The one perk I really like is the one price for all long distance, and Working Assets doesn't have that. Am going to call them today to double check on that.

[City Lights]

16. I didn't.

I don't think there are a whole lot of choices here for cable or high speed internet though. I get a discounted phone rate because it's my third service with Comcast. Personally, I think Comcast sucks, but I kinda feel stuck with them for the time being. They're very unorganized and turned my name over to a modem recoverer because they forgot to update their records when their service rep switched out my modem. The modem recovery guy uses Comcast for the same three services and agreed that they are sloppy and unorganized. He told me I wouldn't hear from him again regarding the matter. Their "it's Comcastic" adds kill us because we refer to them as "Comcraptic."

[scorpiogirl]

43. When we were having problems with our cable,

I wanted to call and report it and when they asked what was wrong, I wanted to tell them that there service is not very "comcastic." My husband and I thought that was funny. I haven't done it yet as we fixed our own problem, but really, what a lame slogan.

[City Lights]

44. Their Pyramid commercials are lame as well.

:eyes:

They're here now, fixing our phone line.

[shanti]

13. lovely, thanks for posting this

i'm in the market for a new cell phone and my choice has just been made for me!! yay cingular!

[shanti]

14. btw, why are you dumping dish?

it's not on the list. comcast is a bad company, very red. dish has free speech tv and worldlink, both very liberal stations. comcast doesn't.

[Whoa_Nelly]

23. AT&T owns Dish Network

And the FUCK YOU Company (aka AT&T) states they will also monitor and report all video/satellite you eceive into your home. So, DISH has got to go.

Read this article:

AT&T rewrites rules: Your data isn't yours

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/06/21/BUG9VJHB9C1.DTL&type=business

[Touchdown]

26. Wrong. I work for them. We don't own DISH

I'd know about it. I knew SBC was buying us, and we were told SBC (now at&t) is buying Bell South before it went to press.

The only thing I've seen is that AT&T is eyeing Dish as a possible purchase, but nothing about them already being bought.

[Whoa_Nelly]

32. Look here

AT&T | DISH Network - A New Name for the Same Great Product!
http://www.sbc.com/gen/general?pid=7581

It6 WAS SBC/DISH Network, but once AT&T took over SBC, it also acquired DISH

[Touchdown]

36. Wrong. Read your own link.

Cross promotion is not the same as ownership. SBC is a re-seller of Dish Network, for bundled billing. It happens all the time in telecom.

Second. It was AT&T that got bought, not the other way around. SBC bought AT&T. Got it? The new name (at&t lower case) is the name that SBC chose, since it was a more recognizeable name.

[shanti]

39. whew!

i hope you're right. i really like my dish and don't want to change it. the only alternative is cable/comcast.

[shanti]

38. nooooooo!

this is getting so annoying! you think you've found a good company and voila! it's not :( what's a woman to do? :shrug:

[TahitiNut]

15. Some do it through contractors or subsidaries. Plausible deniability.

What's become clear is that the rat's nest of interlocking corporate entities offers abundant "where's the pea?" opportunities. There is nothing to prevent the NSA from founding and operating a "service company" that contracts (at a conveniently low price) with telephone carriers to manage call data. The contracting company can blithely deny culpability. Every privacy policy I've ever seen has this trap door.

[Touchdown]

17. Whatz wrong with DISH?

It's not on that list at all. Neither is DirecTV for that matter. I just got HDTV on Monday. What do you know about them?:shrug:

[Whoa_Nelly]

24. See post # 23 AT&T owns DISH

Go to linked article and read about it all, and if you do a google search re: DISH netowk AT&T, you will find that AT&T is the parent company

[Kolesar]

25. AT&T bought DishNetwork? I remember when Murdoch was bidding for DirecTV

But I missed that story.

[Touchdown]

27. I work for AT&T. That's wrong.

I'd know about it before you. Nothing in that article says anything about AT&T owning Echostar Communications.

Where did you get this info?

[Whoa_Nelly]

31. Look here

AT&T | DISH Network - A New Name for the Same Great Product!

http://www.sbc.com/gen/general?pid=7581

It WAS SBC/DISH Network, but once AT&T took over SBC, they also took DISH

[DUHandle]

33. SBC bought ATT

and renamed the entire kit and kaboodle ATT.

SBC did not have any major hurdles from the Febs over the purchase.

One wonders if the former SBC did the Feds any favors to get such favorable oversite.

[Qutzupalotl]

35. I believe that's only in certain areas.

I have DISH network here in Oregon, but I've never seen SBC or ATT/Dish on any of their literature.

If you go to the "DISH Plans" link at the bottom of the page you cited, and enter an area code (like 541) not in their partnership areas, you'll get a message saying AT&T service is not available. So it sounds like they have a partnership for certain areas, but AT&T doesn't (yet) own DISH.

[Touchdown]

37. Like I said that's cross promotion.

Dish is HQ'd here in Denver, and like I said I work for AT&T. If a merger took place I would not only know about it, because of the barrage of Newspaper articles locally, but I could see a friggin' employee discount on HBO on our website.

Don't jump to conclusions. That is a bundled media offer.

This is what we own...
SNET
AT&T
SBC
Pacific Telesis
Nevada Bell
Lucky Dog Long Distance
Ameritech
Cingular
Worldnet ISP (not the rw propaganda site)
Alascom
...and soon Bell South
Probably soon...Taco Bell (the mexican phone company) ;)

There's been biz media speculation about AT&T looking to buy a Satellite company, and Dish looks the most attractive according to the press, but that's all it is, speculation at this point.

[uppityperson]

30. QWest is in conjuction with DirecTV

Which make sense since their customer service, I have found, to suck. But, no NSA so on I go with them.

[IndyOp]

19. Google declined comment - ugh. (n/t)

:(

[cyberpj]

20. Intermediary companies have been used too. A "no" might be legally

correct - (No, I did not turn over to the government) when they simply turned over to an intermediary who then turned over to the government.

[elehhhhna]

22. AOL means Always Overtly Lying. I'm SURE they turned the stuff over

without a request

[Rex]

28. This should scare people, but too many are stuck on trivial things to care

The list should make DUers cringe.

[madmusic]

29. What if we route though some like Level 3?

Even if our ISP says no, if the traffic travels though something like Level 3 that is a yes or maybe, it might still be snooped.

[Tigress DEM]

40. Hope you are right... but get a copy of their privacy policy to be sure..

Provisions for "illegal activities" can be ammended in such a way as to allow them to drop you if they think you've done something illegal and rat you out if asked by authorities, with or without a warrant..

Vonage has that kind of wording in theirs...

I'm just saying be careful.

[ima_sinnic]

41. this list is not trustworthy

as pointed out upthread, there are semantic ways of getting around the question of "turning over info" to NSA -- including selling that info to a 3rd party that then "turns it over" to NSA; even directly selling to NSA could be said to be "different than" "turning over." The original USAToday article said AT&T, BellSouth, Verizon, and SBC have contracts with NSA that date from shortly after 9/11 to sell customer records to them. The question as worded by CNET does not reflect that fact and can be easily "shlumped."

I recently canned BellSouth as my long-distance provider--despite being outright lied to by more than one customer service rep that my records were not being sold to the govt (on top of my paying for the service--a racket in which they collect payment from the customer for the call and then from the govt for the record of that call), that "we don't do that," and switched over to Primus. THeir international long-distance is cheaper asnyway. I think they are based in India but not sure. I do feel good about telling BellSouth to eat it.

[rman]

42. Didn't W recently grant telcos the right to lie about this? nt

[milkyway]

45. I just switched today from AT&T to RCN. I asked RCN directly if they

voluntarily provide customer data to the government. They said no they don't, and they were one of the few companies who were not.