Oil Sand?

[stepnw1f]

On 60 minutes right now. We need to get away from fossil feuls period.

[rusty charly]

1. right

"let's dig HUGE holes in the earth and try to SUCK the oil out of the dirt! It could happen!"

[Yupster]

7. Canada is strip mining their mountains

for shale oil right now.

[OzarkDem]

2. Back to the 70's

its all reminiscent of the attempts to find alternate fossil fuel sources after the Arab oil embargo.

Like "frac-ing" oil out of shale, coal gasification, etc. its the same old recycled solutions. In the end they're usually very high cost. BTW, that's how Halliburton started growing, by cornering the market on oil extraction and drilling products when the petrol companies started drilling in the US in the 1970's.

Geez, all this talk makes me think of discos, platform heels and bad television like Charlies Angels.

[depakid]

3. As usual with the so called "mainstream media"

If this is the story- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/20/60minutes/main1225184.shtml

Then it's absolutely worthless.

No meaningful discussion AT ALL about the serious difficulties in terms of energy economics, including the EROEI, the actual percentages of recoverable oil- or the fact that it take natural gas to cook the stuff- and natural gas is in depletion in North America (or the issues with the huge amounts of fresh water required either).

Nope- NOT ONE SINGLE MAJOR SCIENTIST OR CRITIC TO TELL YOU STRAIGHT UP WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE AND HOW IT FITS INTO THE BIGGER PICTURE.

Anyone watching with is going to come away grossly misinformed about (par for the course with corporate "news").

[stepnw1f]

4. kick (nt)

[Solon]

5. They don't even call it the right name...

They are TAR sands, yes a LITTLE petroleum is present, but, to be honest, its so "heavy" that its mostly only good to use on pavement, not for energy. I hate the M$M!

[stepnw1f]

6. I Thought So

I saw a program on the National Geographic channel talking about an abundance of tar sand in Alberta, Canada.

[Solon]

8. Technically, Canada has the largest reserves of oil in the world...

Like 4 times more than all the Mid-East combined. However, they are "trapped" in the tar sands, which by VOLUME have very little usable oil, and they require a shitload of water and Natural Gas to extract that usable oil. It takes a LOT of energy, in fact, it could be argued that it takes MORE energy to extract it than what you actually get out of the end product, in other words, its useless as a source for energy.

[stepnw1f]

9. Sounds To Me Like 60 Minutes is False-Advertising

fossil feuls are the problem, not solution.

[Solon]

10. I agree...

The thing I hate is the "Magic Bullet" theorists on this. You know, the types that say, "Nuclear will save us!" or "Solar is the way!", what I would call fanboys and girls of one type of energy production or another. The thing people forget is this, our energy production, worldwide, has been largely a Monoculture of sorts, similar to food production, which means its VERY vulnerable to all sorts of hiccups when stressed. What we need is a DIVERSITY of sources. Think of what Iceland is doing, they are using their geologically active Island as a source for electricity(Geothermal), so they can electrolyse water economically, and use that as a source for portable fuel, and the leftover electricity to power homes, etc. That is green energy, and its perfect, for that location. Solar panels are useless there, and land area isn't large enough for HUGE wind farms, so they found a solution that WORKS for them. The rest of the world needs to do the same.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be the SAME solution as what Iceland found, what we need is BALANCE, taking into account, location and what are economical sources for electricity, enviromental impact, etc. For example, Hawaii could probably go the same route, it is also a geologically active, yet controlled, Island, and volcanoes are excellent sources for energy. Phoenix, Arizona would probably go for the solar route, the Mid-West a combo of Solar/Wind, the Upper Western states, again Geo-Thermal, etc.

[stepnw1f]

12. Exactly... Diversifying

makes you more adaptable.

[Solon]

14. True, having such centralized systems leads to things like the blackout...

of 2003, or the rolling blackouts in Denver(ran out of Natural Gas!) last year, etc. The best way to create sustainable civilization is to diversify our sources for energy. It doesn't really matter if we all of the sudden have economical Tokamak Fusion power, if its centralized, as it would have to be, then it is vulnerable to pretty much the same problems that NG or Coal power plants have today.

[depakid]

11. More like fake cheerleading

to appease their advertisers.

Now, if they'd wanted a fair assesment, they could have had a gruff old school petroleum geologist like Kenneth Deffeyes on-

He'd have given a very concise and reasonable assessment about the usefulness and trade offs of tar sands. That's not what they were interested though.

[pitohui]

13. only way to do that is somehow undercut the price

every mountain in the rockies is going to be spoiled by this tar sand nonsense if price of oil stays high

the mountains in the east will be torn up for the coal since it too becomes economic in this environment

truly we will destroy the american landscape in a couple, three decades if something is not done abt high oil prices -- quite probably sooner

i have often wondered about the people who pushed the meme that it's good for oil prices to be high, i suspect at least some of them abt the internet were black ops or paid by the oil companies to spread this patent nonsense but just as many are simply extremely uneducated and unable to understand basic math or economics

if oil price is high, it becomes economic to tear apart every mountain and ocean to get at it, simple as a/b/c