NYC bomb plot - Did the mastermind have a clue?

[Eugene]

In an AP article from yesterday, the FBI says that the NYC bomb plotters
planned to go to New York, scout the place out, get some explosives,
blow up one or more tunnels, and flood Manhattan some time in October
or November. The mastermind even has some small arms training.

(Associated Press)

Saturday, July 8, 2006 · Last updated 9:59 a.m. PT

FBI: Thwarted plot involved 'martyrdom'

By PAT MILTON
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

NEW YORK -- The terrorist plot, in the words of one FBI official, involved
"martyrdom and explosives": suicide bombers who would attack train tunnels
used by tens of thousands of commuters in an effort to bring death and
flooding to lower Manhattan.

Eight suspects had hoped to pull off the attack in October or November,
federal officials said. But federal investigators working with their
counterparts in six other countries intervened before the suspects could
travel to the United States and become a more serious threat, officials
said Friday.

<snip>

"This is a plot that involved martyrdom and explosives," said FBI
Assistant Director Mark J. Mershon.

<snip>

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_New_York_Tunnels_Plot.html

Now the Jordanian authorities say that they not only obtained a detailed
confession, but they also found plans for the attack on his computer.
They say that the plotters intended to go to Pakistan and possibly link up
with al Qaeda for additional training later this year.

(Associated Press)

Plans Found on NYC Plot Suspect's Computer

By HUSSEIN DAKROUB

BEIRUT, Lebanon Jul 9, 2006 (AP)— Lebanese authorities found maps and
bombing plans on the personal computer of an al-Qaida suspect accused
of plotting to attack New York train tunnels, a senior Lebanese official
said.

<snip>

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2171168

If Assem Hammoud's confession is to be believed, this plot is so
implausible, that one must wonder if he lives in the real world.
Otherwise, if Osama bin Laden is wasting his time on someone so
incompetent and so sloppy, then the movement is on its last legs.

I'm sorry, but I find much of this story hard to believe.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. If the point was to drown and terrorise people in the tunnel,

it would make sense. But anyone with a basic science education would know that flooding a tunnel would not flood ground higher than the tunnel. If they had plotted to take out a dam, it would make sense, but not bombing a tunnel.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. So blowing up a tunnel

that is already underwater is somehow suppose to flood lower Manahattan. These guys must be related to the shoe bomber.

[Igel]

7. Depends on the tunnel and

what part of Manhatten you were after.

Breech the PATH at 8 am, and you'd flood a couple of subway lines in Manhatten. Apart from PATH travellers and those in the subway trains when the power failed, I suspect that almost every able-bodied person would get out

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Yes, you could flood something that was also under water

but you are not going to flood lower Manhattan.

BTW: There are buildings in Lower Manhattan that already have water under them. Way back when they first developed the area there was a river that went throught the West Village and they just built over the darn thing.

[SeattleVet]

11. There's also the HUGE symbolism, as blowing the PATH tubes would

also flood the below-waterline portions of Ground Zero. Flooding the proposed memorial site (and a good portion of the subway system in Lower Manhattan) would have huge propaganda value.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the area, since I worked at 130 Liberty Street (the Bankers Trust/Deutschebank building that's being dismantled now) for 8 years, and left NYC a few months before the truck bombing. I used to walk and shop the concourse almost every day at lunchtime or after work.

[allemand]

3. The flooding is implausible, the rest of the plot isn't.

Hammoud had already "applied for a tourist visa at the Canadian embassy in Beirut".
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bomb-plotters-eyed-several-us-targets/2006/07/09/1152383611518.html

I doubt that he would have had any problems entering Canada (rich family, professor of economics, PhD in Montreal). Another suspect was already living there, according to some reports. Perhaps it would have been more difficult for the other suspects, "a Saudi, a Yemeni, a Palestinian, a Jordanian and an Iranian Kurd".

[lyonn]

4. What a shocking revelation - Oct. or Nov. Surprise?

Where have we heard this phrase? Every election year is the answer.

[Ian David]

5. This was better than his plan to hijack the Goodyear Blimp...

and use it to shoot millions of tiny darts at people during The Superbowl.

In any case, he'll be asking ACME to refund the money for the ACME Island-Flooding Tunnel-Blaster he purchased.

I don't think this was an Al Quaeda plot.

I think this was a plot by C.H.A.O.S., and they missed us by that much.

[SoCalDem]

6. the colonel, in the library, with the candlestick...n/t

[raysr]

8. It's a pre-election

fucking lie! There was no plot!

[smirkymonkey]

10. Mastermind?

Bwhaahahahaha....:rofl:

Master Idiot is more like it.

[alittlelark]

12. BE SCARED, BE SCARED, BE SCARED, BE SCARED, BE SCARED...etc.

what else do you need to know?

[rman]

13. Raw: NY Holland Tunnel Bomb Plot "Nothing More than Chatter" - CIA

Raw: NY Holland Tunnel Bomb Plot "Nothing More than Chatter" - CIA

Edited on Sat Jul-08-06 12:24 AM by autorank
Sources say no serious plot for NYC, just hate chatter

Larisa Alexandrovna
Published: Friday July 7, 2006

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/No_Plot_for_NYC_Just_Hate_0707.html

One former intelligence field officer says, and two other CIA officials confirm, that the alleged plot by Muslim extremists to bomb the Holland Tunnel in New York City was nothing more than chatter by unaffiliated individuals with no financing or training in an open forum already monitored extensively by the United States Government, RAW STORY has learned.


“The so-called New York tunnel plot was a result of discussions held on an open Jihadi web site,” said former CIA officer and contributor to American Conservative Philip Giraldi in a late Friday afternoon conversation. Although Giraldi acknowledges that the persons involved – “three of whom have already been arrested in Lebanon and elsewhere - are indeed extremists," their online chatter is considerably overblown by allegations of an actual plot.

“They are not professionally trained terrorists, however, and had no resources with which to carry out the operation they discussed," Giraldi added. "Despite press reports that they had asked Abu Musab Zarqawi for assistance, there is no information to confirm that. It is known that the members discussed the possibility of approaching Zarqawi but none of them knew him or had any access to him.”

Two other intelligence officials with experience in the field on extremist operations concurred--and expressed concern that what could have been an operation to eventually track known extremists (should they eventually make actual contact with funds and training,)==> seems to have been exposed for political gain.<==