The world should never forget what Israel has done to Lebanon

[cantstandbush]

Never. And they should be sanctioned to pay for it. However, nothing will they can do will ever bring back those they killed.

[Swamp Rat]

1. Humanity is destroying itself.

[lonestarnot]

4. And all the reporters have on their red shirts.

[Swamp Rat]

6. and their kevlar vests

which will melt rather quickly at 250,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

[lonestarnot]

10. heh heh heh...

How are you this a.m. Swampie?

[Swamp Rat]

15. Same as it ever was...

And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful Wife
And you may ask yourself-well...how did I get here?

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the moneys gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.

And you may ask yourself
How do I work this?
And you may ask yourself
Where is that large automobile?
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful house!
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful wife!

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the moneys gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.

Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...

Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean
Carry the water at the bottom of the ocean
Remove the water at the bottom of the ocean!

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones/there is water underground.

And you may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself
Where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right? ...am I wrong?
And you may tell yourself
My god!...what have I done?

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones/there is water underground.

Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...

[lonestarnot]

20. rock on Swamper!

:yourock:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

49. My favorite song

from my favorite album.

Saw them live in NYC.

[ShortnFiery]

2. Yes, I'm listening to CSPAN right now, listening to some a**hole

apologist for Israel's present genocide. I hope and pray that some good people give him hell for his B.S. "Terra Terra Terra" meme. 23 members of Hezbolah are WITHIN the government of Lebanon.

Bullshit! Hezbolah may have some murderous scumbags but there are other sections of this organization who are deeply respected for their humanitarian support of the population.

Damn this "Terrorist thugs" meme to justify killing ALL of Hezbolah. :puke:

[Minnesota Libra]

11. There were also members of the.......

....mob who were "...deeply respected for their humanitarian support of the population" because of things they did for the neighborhoods they lived in such as starting medical clinics, block parties, taking care of widows, etc. Did any of that make them any less members of the mob????

So remember, humanitarian work or not they are still members of Hezbolah that can and do carry out terrorist acts.

[ShortnFiery]

14. Yes, well someone better tell this Israeli government apologist

that Hezbollah is PART OF THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT.

They are legitimate! State sponsored terrorists on BOTH SIDES.

Idiots think that if they repeat "Terrorist Thugs" often enough, we must believe them. :(

For example, someone consulting the “Mosaic” Web site to find out who is behind Lebanon’s Al Manar TV would learn that it “is controlled by the Shiite fundamentalist movement Hezbollah...which holds a number of elected positions in the Lebanese government” and that its mission is “to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the civilized role of the Arab and Islamic community.”

[Minnesota Libra]

23. That is truly funny...............

......"....controlled by the Shiite fundamentalist movement Hezbollah."......“to preserve the Islamic values and to enhance the civilized role of the Arab and Islamic community.”

Does anyone really believe much of anything goes on in the Middle East that truly enhances "the civilized role..." of much of anything.

Thanks for the :rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

30. Oh Yeah, the ME is filled with SAVAGES ...

Ooops! You're biased SLIP is showing a la Freud. :hi:

[Minnesota Libra]

35. YES, you finally got it, yes the ME is full of savages. Look at life.....

....over there at anytime, now or in the past. Oh, you finally got it!!!:applause:

[ShortnFiery]

40. NO, that's no excuse to not try to make the quality of life better

for those who live in abject poverty. We must lift up all peoples if we wish to find TRUE peace.

[Minnesota Libra]

43. Oh, and occasionally people can show hope only to dash it. nt

[ShortnFiery]

44. We must TRY and not give up ... it's not ever too late for peace.

:hi:

[sendero]

26. Nobody lobbed..

... bombs indiscriminately at "suspected mobster locations", so your analogy is pretty much bullshit.

[Minnesota Libra]

31. The claim that Israel doesn't have the right to.............

.....keep it's country safe from suicide bombings, timed bombs, threats to wipe them off the face of the earth is also "...pretty much bullshit."

I didn't hear much outcry at DU when the suicide bombings inside Israel, the threats to wipe Israel out, and more was going on. If people think violence is so wrong, where were they then???? I've asked that question dozens of times at DU and still haven't gotten an answer from anyone who now defends everything the Muslims/Arabs do.

[sendero]

36. You clearly have "bought"..

... the bogus distinction between suicide bombings and bulldozing houses with people in them.

I haven't.

Hezbollah, and the rest of the terrorists are wrong. Israel is just as wrong.

[papau]

37. I agree - seems war death of civilians is not bad if Hez does it - but to a

true leftest/socialist, Israel defense of their Jewish State from the religion driven attacks of arabs claiming the right to destroy the Jewish State of Israel is a bad.

I do not understand the logic.

[Minnesota Libra]

42. And I don't understand the logic of..............

.....defending everything Arabs/Muslims/Hezballoh/Hamas does and condemning everything Israel does. I don't understand that either. :shrug:

[Ravenseye]

3. Carefull

Just for saying that, someone is going to accuse you of supporting Hezbollah, and then call you anti-semitic.

[cali]

7. No not anti-semitic

just one sided. What the U.S. for instance, has done in Iraq and Afghanistan is far more severe than what Israel has done in Lebanon, and its our own country. I don't see too many calls like the OP's re the U.S. on these threads. I don't support what Israel has done, but the hypocricy is stunning.

[cantstandbush]

21. Hell, the US IS paying for all the damage its done. Have you checked

the cost of this shit in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[cali]

22. You're fucking kidding.

Do you have any goddamn idea how bad things are in Iraq? And yes it's all directly the fault of the US. What does the fact that it costs a lot of money have to do with the utter destruction going on in Iraq?

[Minnesota Libra]

5. Nor should the world be allowed to forget................

....what was done to the Israelis a mere 60 or so years ago. But the truth of the matter is some people have very short memories. It's only those who would use a given situation for their own purposes that conveniently have a long, long memory. In other words there is enough blame to go around and then some.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. That doesn't give them the right

to do to anyone else, what was done to them.

[Minnesota Libra]

25. And nothing gives Arabs/Muslims the right to .......

....carry out terrorists acts against Israelis but the Arabs/Muslims do it anyway. So again, there is enough blame to go around and then some.

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. If someone bombed your home

and killed your children how would you react?

Violence begets violence and until the bullies stop beating everyone up it won't stop.

[Minnesota Libra]

39. You are right "...until the bullies stop beating everyone up..." so.......

....so where was that outcry when the Arabs/Muslims/Hezballoh/Hamas/Palestinians were carrying out suicide bombings, backpack filled timed bombs, and more inside Israel. Where was the outcry to "...stop beating everyone up..." then????

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. Sharon responded

and apparently the wall they built did cut way down on the number of bombings.

However, they were not isolated incidents. Every time some does a suicide bomb the Israelis would punish everyone in the Gaza Strip. That punishment included Israelis Jets dropping bombs and missiles, to Israeli tanks rolling down the street killing civilians and demolishing their houses.

Always the bully response.

[Minnesota Libra]

45. So apparently the suicide bombings are just fine but the.............

....tanks to truly stop them are not all right?? :eyes: :wtf:

[DoYouEverWonder]

46. Not at all

and there are appropriate ways to respond. However if you never try to get to the root reasons for why someone is so desperate to wrap themselves in bombs then you will never solve the problem.

[Minnesota Libra]

51. The root of the problem is the...............

....suicide bombings, the remotely detonated backpack bombs, the absolute refusal of Hamas/Hezballoh/Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims to simply leave Israel alone to exist.

Hamas/Hezballoh/Palestinians/Arabs show how brave they are by carrying out things like remotely detonated bombs and then going and hiding among the general populace. When it comes to terrorists I do not believe in an eye for an eye, for terrorists it should be an arm and a leg for an eye. If innocents are in the way, maybe they should have thought about those potential consequences before they aided and abetted terrorists.

If there is a problem with the land itself that should be taken up with the UN who granted the land to Israel in the first place.

[DoYouEverWonder]

53. Leave Israel alone to exist?

If you haven't noticed, they were there for 100's of years before the current crop of Israeli's who mostly immigrated from Europe and other countries.

[magellan]

12. There is indeed blame enough to go around

But I sometimes wonder if the Israelis remember what happened to them 60 years ago, that they could turn around and do these things to others. Defense is one thing, ripping Lebanon to shreds because they can is another.

Someone has got to stand up and do the right thing, show respect for human life. Based on its own peoples' history it really ought to be Israel.

[Minnesota Libra]

29. Too bad all those ripping on...........

....Israelis now didn't bother to speak out just as loudly against Muslims/Arabs/Hezballoh/Hamas when they were carrying out suicide bombing claiming they wanted to wipe Jews off the face of the map, and on and on.

I think it's all wrong whether Israel or any Arab country/group does the terrorist acts.

[magellan]

47. I think you're assuming a lot

Until this war broke out, discussion of Israel and the Palestinians was pretty much relegated to the I/P forum. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't go there. But I do feel for both sides; my heart is big enough to care about senseless death no matter who they are. There is just very little opportunity to state such outside of I/P under normal DU operating guidelines.

Just because there hasn't previously been a chorus speaking up against terrorist attacks against Israel doesn't mean those now speaking out against Israel, in this more permissive atmosphere, condone past terrorist actions. You have the right to assume that of course, but I think you'll find you're laboring under a false belief and creating an issue where, in fact, none really exists.

Do a poll if you really want to know the general sentiment.

1) I don't care about Israeli civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists
2) I don't care about Palestinian/Lebanese civilian deaths at the hands of Israel
3) I don't care about any of them
4) I care about ALL senseless civilian death and wish it would stop

[jonnyblitz]

19. oh we don't forget because THAT is used to stifle criticism , too..

and Israel should know better BECAUSE what they have been through throughout their history. They turn around and treat people the same damn way. They are trying to wipe out Lebanon. that is the sad irony of all this.

[cali]

24. That is hyperbole.

Israel is not trying to wipe out Lebanon. For sure the bombing of Lebanon is a way over the top response and wrong, but they are not committing genocide. People who make that claim should get a clue. As for the anti-semitism charge, sometimes it's used to shut down debate, sometimes it's dead on. The same it true of accusing people of playing "the antisemitism charge; at times it's legitimate, and at times it's just an excuse for real antisemitism.

[acmavm]

8. What I want to know, and what I can't understand, is how does

it be made clear that what Israel has done is criminal, no less criminal than what the neocons have done in Iraq? Hillary and the boys on the Hill want to give them a pass. The White House gave them the 'green light'. But I guess that's understandable because they were only killing dark skinned people. They don't have the excuse that they're just killing Muslims because they are killing Lebanese Christians too.

When will it be made clear to Israel that they do not have the rights to take all the good land and water in the area? When will it become clear to Israel that this continual refusal to negotiate in good faith is at the bottom of all the problems? When will it become clear that for every one Israeli killed or kidnapped they do not have the right to kill and entire family or level an entire village? When will it become clear that if they would negotiate in good faith, maybe the Palestinian authorities would help them in their struggle against those that lob rockets their way? When will Israel be reined in?

[Rosemary2205]

13. Oh I don't think Lebanon and Iraq compare at all.

No one in Iraq attacked us - or ever did ever in all of history, but Bush, Rummy and Cheney had a hardon for Saddam so they loaded up 3000 tons of depleted uranium and turned Iraq into a shithole for the next billion years.

Far as I know Iraq isn't using WMD on Lebanon and they and Hezbollah have been passing victimhood back and forth for my whole lifetime of most of the people living in either country.

No, I am not happy with the goings on in Lebanon at all. But IMHO it takes living in that region to really understand the nuance of what is going on. Yes, no war ever would be a delicious way to live and I hold out hope someday that will actually happen on this planet. Until then, IMHO I'm the least of people with a right to judge either side in this.

[ShortnFiery]

16. How can Israel fighting for it's "very life" when they have ALL the Air

Superiority and the vast arsenal of weapons?

I will NOT vote for any fellow Democrat that sanctions this genocide of the civilians ... many of them innocents, within Lebanon.

[ixion]

18. at the same time the US is reigned in

a.k.a WW III. :-(

:nuke:

[malaise]

17. I agree 100%

I will not forget.

[cali]

27. I'm sure you won't

selective outrage; not exactly a rare phenomena. Unless you're prepared to have the same degree of outrage against China, the US, the Russians and scores more, you're hypocritical.

[jonnyblitz]

34. i thought you said you weren't an apologist for Israel.

You keep wanting to change the subject to something else, "what about _______" you are using the tactics of the apologists. :eyes:

I personally have the same outrage to ALL countries who behave badly. THAT isn't the topic of this thread.

[cali]

38. Bullshit

you've read enough of my posts to know that i harshly condemn Israel for it's actions in Lebanon and Gaza. And there isn't a thread here where people don't expand on the original topic. In addition, it's really important to put things into context. That hardly makes me an apologist, and frankly throwing that shit out is just a way of trying to shut someone down, and is used as a clear insult.

Screw that type of discourse.

[peacetalksforall]

32. I will not forget that George and PNAC and our majority PNAC Congress

gave Israel one more week to kill and destruct.

[jonnyblitz]

33. and the world will never forget Israel is allied with the USA

and that the Bush people gave Israel the greenlight. we will be, if we aren't already, the most hated nations everywhere.

[checkmate1947]

48. and who would you have the US allied with

The Terrorist???

[K8-EEE]

50. US & Israel Have Zero Moral Authority To Point Fingers IMO

Jesus Christ, look what they have done to Iraq and Lebanon, they are IN RUINS!! With thousands of innocents dead. Isreal did NOT have to bomb out THE ENTIRE COUNTY to punish a minority. THIS WILL JUST MAKE EVERYTHING WORSE! They want the world to fear them, but they will HATE them too. Israel is just making more terrorists/danger with every bomb at this point, my God 500,000 displaced people in Beirut. SICK!

[elias7]

52. the difference is that Israel's enemy IS aiming missiles at their border

capable of striking any part of Israel, which is a much more immediate problem than the US faced; indeed one might call it imminent danger. The Israeli response is, for my sensibilities, tragically overdone, yet with missiles being funnelled from Iran into Lebanon to pass unobtructed into the hands of Hezbollah is a difficult and a recurrent problem. This episode may have been the proverbial straw... and a self-perceived act of desperation. And for that, both sides are guilty.

The US & Israel may have zero moral authority, but then I don't know what moral authority I have earned to point fingers either.