2002: Hizbollah fires rockets for five days, beats up UN workers

[mogster]

That headline probably woke you up.

So, now you think I've googled to 'help' Israel? ;-)
Let me say this; I think it's pretty pathetic if you do. The DU has split in two distinct 'camps' these days, and we shouldn't downrate information just because it doesn't exactly fit our view. I have execised self sensorship several times the last days to avoid landing in any of the camps. Fuck that.

This is part of a much longer investigation, trying to find out about the relationship between my country and Israel, mostly tru news articles. I posted a thread with some excerpts from April 2002 here that hardly can be called all positive, lol. I looked into one of the articles and reread it, and found the following.

Disclaimer done. Now begins the article. If I hadn't felt the need to explain myself, you wouldn't have had to read the bullshit above.

Rød-Larsen: Fears regional crisis

JERUSALEM (Dagbladet): Terje Rød-Larsen, the UN envoy to the Middle East, now fears that war-like conditions can break out between Israel and neighbouring countries Lebanon and Syria.

Av LINE FRANSSON
Fredag 04.05.2002

- The situation along the border between Israel and Lebanon are so critical that if it continues, it may lead to wide-ranging war-like conditions between Israel and Lebanon, and even Syria, says Rød-Larsen.
The Norwegian peace negotiator was busy with meetings the whole day yesterday. The ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinians was on the agenda, naturally enough, but the situation between Lebanon and Syria has led to further complications in the area.

- It has been launched rockets into Israel from Lebanon for five days now. I see this situation as very serious, and we have protested as loudly as possible, says Rød-Larsen.

Two conflicts
The conflict between Lebanon and Israel may have a bigger potential to destabilize the situation in the area, says Rød-Larsen
The Israelis holds Syrian as responsible for what's happening, and Israel has on two occations responded by attacking Syrian targets in Lebanon.

The UN General Secretary Kofi Annan has called the Lebanese and Syrian leaders on request by Israel to warn them against being dragged into the conflict, says the BBC.

- Not since we drew the blue line between Israel and Lebanon in October 2002 has the situation been more serious, says Rød-Larsen.

Coordinated
He fears that there will be two conflicts now:
Between Israel and Lebanon, and between Israel and the Palestinians

Rød-Larsen was yesterday in meetings with the Foreign minister of Spain Josep Pique and the EU chief of foreign policy Javier Solana. This in addition to meetings between the American envoy Anthony Zinni. He's also keeping a constant dialogue with the Palestinians and Israelis.

- We are coordinated in our views, and will work closely together as this continues. But there's no miracle cure. All we're doing now is based on the Security Council resolution from February 14. (demands for Israeli withdrawal). It is also consensus among the parties that there won't be any cease fire before the parties reach an agreement where both the security elements and the political elements are in, says Rød-Larsen.

Norwegians attacked
Two Norwegian UN-observers, Frank Aronsen and Kjetil Havaas, was attacked and beaten up by members of the Hizbollah-militia in southern Lebanon yesterday. Also two UN-observers from France and Irland was beaten up.

- An Indian group wanted to help but also received rough treatment. The situation is very serious, says Rød-Larsen.

The UN condemns the attack on the unarmed observers.

Norwegian Defence Commando says that the two were «attacked and beaten up» by soldiers from the so-called «Armed Elements», but that no shots were fired. The officers has minor injuries. The UN-observers was taken to the UNIFIL hospital in Naqoura.

Threatens the world
The attack happened in the controversial area called the Shebaa farms, on the border between Israel, Lebanon and Syria. The observation group is led by UNTSO (United Nations Truce Supervision Organization), which has been assigned the mission to oversee the cease fire in the border area between Israel, Lebanon and Syria.

European leaders fear the escalating conflict between Israel and the Palestinians may threaten world security. Foreign minister of Britain, Peter Hain, says according to the BBC that the conflict can spread to the whole area and drag all parties in.

Syria has avoided military conflict with Israel ever since the war in 1973. The Arab countries military force is no comparison to the military force of Israel.
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2002/04/05/322785.html

(Peter Hain wasn't foreign minister, but Minister for Europe at the Foreign Office)

[northzax]

1. yes, well, there isn't anything particularly new under the sun, right?

and of course, I doubt that Israel would want to be held to the same ethical standard as Hezbollah. it's like when some 'conservatives' say the US needs to engage in torture and the like because Al Quaeda does it. well, I prefer to think of the US as slightly more evolved than a bunch of lunatics living in caves, and I'd like to think of Israel as slightly more evolved that a group that blows themselves up on busses. (note that I don't think of Israel as more evolved that Lebanon, or Lebanese, only the terrorist groups we are comparing them to.

[adriennui]

2. sometimes one's existence depends

on using equal force as the lunatics with the exception that the civilized (in this case israel) don't target civilians.

of course, monsters like hezbollah don't give a sh-t. they think they're getting their 70 virgins.

[mogster]

3. They're not monsters

They have kids, spouses, family and friends, and are loved by them, just like we are loved by the people that surrounds us. They can be talked to, reached an agreement with, and if the conditions are right, fit into a peaceful framework.

[jackstraw45]

5. You mean the destruction of Israel?

What other "condition" are you referring to?

[tom_paine]

6. So? Every monster in history (just about) had that.

Stalin, Goebbels, Pol Pot. Family men, the lot of them. Lot of chums, too (well, the ones they didn't kill).

I don't want to get into this whether Hizbollah fits into this category, I just feel compelled to strongly disagree with your reasoning?

Do you truly believe that EVERYONE can be reached with reason into a peaceful framework? The most violent killers and so forth? BTK Killer had a loving family, was involved with the local church and community.

By night he slaughtered innocent at the pace of about 3 or 4 a year for quite a few years off and on.

Your idealism is laudable. I wish for the human race you describe. But it isn;t here today, and I am afraid the dawning Age of Totalitarianism under Bushevism gives me little hope that it will ever arrive.

Sorry.

Now you can go back to the I/P back and forth.

[adriennui]

7. hitler and ted bundy were loved as well

and they were monsters. i don't apologize because to me hezbollah is no better than a criminal (but very violent) street gang. i have no doubt they will be eliminated in the not too distant future. they will be stepped on and kicked to the gutter.

[Igel]

9. Your post is a non-sequitur.

Monsters typically have kids, family, friends, and are loved by them.

I worked for a monster. He loved his kids, family, and friends, and they loved him. He raised two daughters, one married and had three kids, the older remained single and worked for him. He was the pastor of a church; as long as things went in accordance with his views, all was fine.

His daughter said she'd no longer go to church, and he told her she had an hour to pack up and move out. He'd bent over backwards to help her, she'd spent most of her adult life working as his secretary for low wages. But you didn't violate God's Law.

The assoc. pastor disagreed over how the pastor handled a church problem, and said that he was simply acting contrary to Scripture; the pastor didn't speak to him years. The parishioners hadn't a clue. Then the two men divided the church and its assets; it was all done through lawyers. The pastor died never having said another word to the assoc. pastor.

Most monsters are fine as long as you don't run into their idee fixe. You do, and you're toast.

[northzax]

8. you know, there's a word for

telling an entire region of people to leave their homes immediately, or they will be killed. actually it's two words. you may have heard of them: ethnic cleansing. no, not genocide, since there is not intention to exterminate, only 'cleansing' since there is an intention to extirpate.

now, do be so kind as to explain how that isn't 'targeting civilians' please. honestly, it's the only military solution, and then what?

[burythehatchet]

4. As I have noted

Islamic militias and Israel appear to be on the same moral plane. The same one that Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld frolic upon. Indiscriminate killing, occupation, shunning world opinion, diplomacy last approach.

[DYouth]

10. You mean Hezbollah can do bad things too?!!

I didn't know that already or anything!

[LostinVA]

11. Me either! I thought they were choir boys!