gosh the amount of gay bashing on DU disguised as GOP bashing!

[doctor_garth]

It is shocking the amount of gay bashing on the thread below (and others I'm sure) disguised as Republican bashing.

Words like 'sick', 'disgusting', 'pederast', 'pedophile', 'predator'.

Men in their 40s and 50s have sex with guys in their 20s all the time, it's legal and it's normal by any psychological standard, as long as the parties are adults and consenting. Some older men are attracted to younger men and the opposite is also true.

I say just don't be a hypocrite, anti-gay tight-ass Republican and co-chairman of the Congressional Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus. The same Republicans who condemn gays for wanting to get married. I condemn Foley and the GOP for that, for the hypocrisy.

Also, DU needs a reality check about Clinton. I was livid when Republicans impeached him for that (scumbag Henry Hyde confessed later that it was to revenge Nixon), but Clinton was married, which Foley isn't, and Clinton did break the law, which Foley didn't. Clinton lied under oath. (Bush has lied under oath many times too, but Republican obviously look the other way).

Marlene Dietrich once said: Americans are obsessed with sex, Europeans do it. The world is laughing at the US once again, as it did during Monica. This country needs therapy. No wonder 95% of serial killers live here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2344415

[Lex]

1. Do you think it was ok for Foley to send sexually explicit emails

to pages that were minors?

:shrug:

[doctor_garth]

4. 16 is the legal age in DC n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

Regardless. It is a form of sexual harassment that occurs in the

workplace and it is wrong. WRONG.

If it weren't the big deal you are implying, why did Foley resign so quickly and enter treatment for his 'addiction'?

[NNN0LHI]

11. So you support 53 year old men trying to have sex with 16 year old kids?

Interesting.

Don

[doctor_garth]

39. what I support has nothing to do with it

it's what the law says. 16 is the legal age for sex in DC. Period.

And there wasn't even sex. You don't like the law, change it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

86. Whether he is a predator in the eyes of the law is immaterial

to your argument.

You are claiming that people call him a predator and pederast because he's is homosexual. Until you can prove that claim, you're just puffing up your chest nonsensically. Here's one way to demonstrate it: Find a thread on DU where people excuse the SAME behavior with respect to a heterosexual version of it (52+ year old man with a 16 year old "woman."). If you can do that, I'd be happy to agree with you.

[Lex]

15. Until you are 18 you are a minor

even if the legal age of consent is 16.

You can't even legally enter into a contract until you are 18.

By the way, sending sexually explicit emails to 16 year olds is repugunant and wrong, regardless of whether it's heterosexual or homosexual.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. I totally agree. It is BEYOND wrong to send those to a CHILD

I have a 16yo and she is a CHILD, regardless of the body in which she lives.

[sandnsea]

26. And it's 18 in Florida

Which is where the original email was transmitted from. You're helping spin for Republicans.

[stevedeshazer]

52. You're defending this? Please enlighten us.

Tell us why it is okay for a man who is 52 years old to stalk a sixteen year-old while simultaneously being co-chairman of the Congressional Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus.

I can't wait to read your explanation.

[Rockstone]

2. You are right

there is a line there that is being blurred at this time.

Many of us are eager to see damage done to the GOP and that may override our proper consideration of the political correctness of some of our posts.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niceypoo]

21. None of the examples he/she gave have any "gay bashing" in them

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

43. A better term for "political correctness" is "bullshit GOP talking point."

:rofl:

[gollygee]

3. This particular kid was 21

but the other kids I've heard talk about were 15 and 16.

[doctor_garth]

12. not 15 buddy

unless you have a link.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Do you send a lot of emails about masturbation to 16 year olds?

If not, and if the question offends you, then you have your answer.

Cheers!

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robinlynne]

5. Thank you! I agree.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Here we go...

:eyes:

[Midlodemocrat]

7. It's the predatory behavior people have a problem with, not

whether or not he is gay. Get a grip.

[democraticinsurgent]

30. yes, but many many posts are slipping into gay bashing

I applaud the OP for bringing this up. This country is in the grip of major sexual repression.

There's no defense for Foley or the cover-up. Period, end of story.

But, there's plenty of defense for gay consenting adults, including Republicans. I think that any gay person who's also Republican is living in denial, but I wouldn't condemn them for being gay.

I would charge them of undermining their own cause.

On one level, I would enjoy exposing hypocrisy among those closeted Republicans who champion bans on gay marriage, etc. On another, my heart breaks for anyone who feels they have live secret lives to be who they are, even if they are hypocrites.

All of us must come to the realization that there's a little (or a lot) of bisexuality in each of us. Tolerance for all types of lifestyles is the appropriate thing, especially for the big tent of the Democrats, right?

[Midlodemocrat]

36. Dude, the OP

has another agenda. Read the whole thread.

And, plus NO real DUer is a gay basher. The ones who are bashing gays are trolls.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

48. I'm a total queer and there is nothing to applaud the OP for.

Re-read the whole thread.

[Midlodemocrat]

50. Haruka, you kill me.

"I'm a total queer".


:rofl:

:thumbsup:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

56. Thank God, as a queer, I don't need to worry about...

proper consideration of political correctness.

:rofl:

I'm really a Kinsey 5, so in all honesty, I'm almost a total queer.

[wryter2000]

8. I'm wondering

I, too, see no problem with Foley having sex with an adult male. For me, the question is does this suggest that he had sex with younger pages as well?

I also have to wonder if this particular story is an attempt to exhonerate him. The statement that "I don't mess with pages" suggests to me that this story is coming out precisely to protect him and the Republicans who covered up for him. (Even if the story itself is true.)

[niceypoo]

10. I see no "gay bashing" in any of the examples that you posted...

...so what is your real point?

[doctor_garth]

20. if you can't see it

you're helpless.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Actually, no...it's YOUR JOB to help

You're making the charge, so go ahead and explain it. Plain English helps.

[Midlodemocrat]

You can't see it, because it isn't there.

The OP has another agenda that he wishes us to explore.

[BlueEyedSon]

13. I dunno, it would be pretty icky if the pages were girls too.

Maybe ickier.

:puke:

[salin]

63. the gender doesn't matter - the behavior does... predatory with power

that could make or break futures (as in - if I don't respond - will I get blackballed from certain scholarships, or future jobs, etc.?)

[Up2Late]

14. If your concern was genuine, why didn't you post your concern there?

Or would you just rather start trouble with a new thread?:shrug: :mad:

[doctor_garth]

24. gay bashing on DU

deserves a thread don't you think?

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. If you could demonstrate it

Then it would.

Since you can't, it doesn't.

:rofl:

[doctor_garth]

59. I quoted the words

and I gave the link, what else do you freaggin need?

[B Calm]

16. You say PRESIDENT Clinton broke the law and Foley didn't!

What law did PRESIDENT Clinton break?

[alcibiades_mystery]

The operative question is "what law did he brake (sic)"

:rofl:

[B Calm]

23. Yeah that's right he did spell it as BRAKE...

[Lex]

32. I'm series. This is hugh!!1111!!

:spray:

[doctor_garth]

41. lying under oath

isn't that what the Repugs caught him for?

[Midlodemocrat]

45. Don't you have anything better to do than bash Clinton?

Those of us who are actually dems love the Big Dog.

[doctor_garth]

54. you're right

this was not about bashing Clinton.

But I was just making a parallel between the two sex scandals.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

58. While conveniently bashing Clinton.

Two for one deal. Must be a sale at Walmart.

[B Calm]

47. What was the lie?

[sandnsea]

18. No, posts like yours excuse predators

And confuse the issue and I think it's intentional.

Mark Foley is a pedophile, a predator. Anybody preying on teen-agers, NOT PEOPLE IN THEIR TWENTIES, is a pervert. I suspect Mark Foley DID break the law, it's a matter of sorting out jurisdictions, ages of consent, and the definition of illegal sexual activity and transmitting explicit sexual material.

I wish people like you would stop posting this shit because the last thing Democrats need is to appear to condone grown men preying on teen-agers. And the very very last thing the homosexual community needs is to equate homosexuality to sex with boys.

And none of this has got squat to do with Bill Clinton.

[doctor_garth]

33. get through your head that

16 is the age of consent in DC.

You might not like it, but 16 yo. can choose to have sex with whomever they wish, even 95 yo. men.

Also, go learn medicine and psychology. A pedophile is someone attracted to children. A 16 yo. is not a child,

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. You're starting to sound like a NAMBLA pamphlet

Good luck with the whole "13 year olds used to be available for sex with 50 year olds" argument. It's a winner! :rofl:

[Midlodemocrat]

85. Well, I'm gonna guess that

you don't have any kids, nor have you had a meaningful adult relationship in your entire life. No one who posts the crap you are posting could expect anyone to want a relationship with them.

You're disgusting. :puke:

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. So if Trent Lott wants to bang a 16 year old "woman" that's fine with you

It's the age of consent in DC, after all.

There should be no negative consequences, since it's all above-board and legal.

Cheers! That's a stance that will help people win elections. Why should social mores impinge of a 50 year-olds freedom to fuck or otherwise talk sex with teenagers when it is not technically illegal? What kind of nany-state political correctness prevents 68 year old fogeys from fondling 16 year olds of either sex?

Hot teen sex for all (except where prohibited by state law)!

Helluva platform you got there, chief. I expect it will be a winner in the Midwest, especially.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

80. I don't see sex as a dirty thing

Nice try though.

And yes, if that's your platform - 68 year olds and 16 year olds, please, by all means, go with it. IT's endearing to most, I'm sure.

Listen, I get what you imagine to be the whole reductio ad absurdum version of the thing. It's really amusing. It really is. Tra la la...if there are no boundaries for liberals, then sex between 50 year olds and teenagers should be alright, tra la la. I get that you think that's a contradiction, and you're going to caricature it to expose some hypocrisy that exists only in your mind, primarily because you don't understand the actual stance you're trying to caricature. It's fun. I know. I get it.

What you don't seem to understand is that the words "pederast" and "predator" are being applied not because the relationship is homosexual in nature, but because there is a considerable power asymmetry. Is there a power asymmetry in the Monica case? Of course, and Clinton is rightly condemned for it, but the asymmetry in that case didn't have to do with maturity, but position.

:rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

84. A 16 year old is still a minor.

Hell, I'm 23 and I wouldn't go near a 16 year old, because they are still emotionally immature, even if they're physically mature.

There is no reason a 52-year-old congressman should be attempting sexual relations or discussions with any 16-year-old, but it's even worse when it's a kid they're in a position of power over.

Don't even tell me that I see sex as a dirty thing, because I (and those who know me) would just have to blatantly laugh at that, without remorse.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

77. here is a little tip...

If you want to convince America at large that you guys are perfectly normal and non-threatening... you might want to skip the passionate defence of a dirty old man who used his position to try and fuck those percived to be children.

His conduct is completely unacceptable, this November I will have a couple of 15 and 16 yearold girls job shadowing me - if I used my position to fuck them - even if they wanted to, I would be fired no questions asked and nobody would defend my actions.

You shouldn't be defending a predatory pervert out of some sense of obligatory solidarity.

[sandnsea]

Foley also lived in Florida

And seduced 16 year olds from Florida and transmitted explicit material from Florida. Get it through your head, THAT'S FUCKING ILLEGAL, dipwad.

And quite believing Wikipedia is the same thing as a professional journal. It's not. An obsession with underage teen-agers is pedophilia, just as much as obsession with 5 year olds is.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tyo]

27. Aren't we forgetting about the 10+ year coverup

Foley's colleagues knew about this for years and basically allowed it to continue. The way the Rethug leadership handled this would have met with the total approval of generations of Catholic bishops. Who knows what else they are keeping quiet about?

[malaise]

28. IS this troll necessary four weeks before the election? n/t

[B Calm]

53. I guess, he's still here!

[KittyWampus]

29. Bush hasn't lied under oath- GOP congress hasn't required that yet

they got him to testify, but not under oath, IIRC.

[Lex]

35. I hope that changes real soon. Under oath, yes indeed. nt

[doctor_garth]

49. the state of the union

speeches are under oath. Remember the 16 words?

[alcibiades_mystery]

61. Really?

Show me.

[peacebird]

37. I do not care what Foley did with men (18 and over)

But I am concerned/disgusted that he would send sexually suggestive email and IM's to young men below the age of 18; and that he used his position as a congressman, and the power of that position to contact pages.

What he does with other consenting adults is a don't care for me. What he does with underage youths is very much at issue.

This is not a "gay" thing so far as I can tell - it's abuse of power and predation on teens (under 18)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. I'm Old Fashioned...

I believe sex between adults and minors is always wrong regardless of the sexual orientation of the participants...

I also believe congressmen and congresswomen are acting as parents (in loco parentis) to the underage pages and should conduct themselves as such.

And my beliefs are not affected by my party identification.


I would feel the same way about Mark Foley if he had a (D) after his name.

[Tyo]

64. He does have a "D" after his name sometimes

Depends on where you get your news.

[roody]

46. I agree we need to be careful not to be homophobic.

Foley's behavior is reprehensible whether it were to 16 year old boys or 16 year old girls. This sexual harrassment is acceptable to many people if it is heterosexual in nature. It is fun to joke about sex scandals, when it is your opposition involved. If you make a joke, think it in a hetero setting and see if it is homophobic.

[madmusic]

55. The Rethugs will spin it that way.

And Glen Beck showed a video of a "terrorist" on a talk show discussing American homosexual and bestiality web sites claiming they could marry in the U.S., as if people could legally marry animals and equating gays into the mix. Have to say, it was a well done piece of propaganda. Maybe someone has the clip.

Don't forget a majority greater than "The Moral Majority" votes against gay marriage.

[davidinalameda]

57. he's right in a sort of bizarro twisted way

there have been several homophobic threads on here since the Foley scandal broke which the mods have locked once they were alerted on

BUT Foley did send what can be called in the least highly inappropriate emails and IMs to underage kids which were probably against the law

the kids weren't in DC but in other states and I have no idea which states they were in and what the age of consent is in those states

gay men and lesbians are NOT preditors; we do not prey on children; we have sex with other adults

anyone who does prey on children is not gay nor lesbian, but a pedophile

straight adults do not prey on children; pedophiles do

and the whole Foley incident is certainly not the first time that homophobia has reared its ugly head on DU

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Unfortnuately...

You have at least three issues being conflated...

Pedophilia

Republican hypocrisy

and

Sexual Orientation

I have made jokes like many here, but offending gay folks is the last thing from my mind..

[davidinalameda]

70. one of those issues should not be included

and that's sexual orientation

Foley saying that he's gay is an attempt to deflect the true issue that he preyed on kids

Just because he saying he's gay doesn't make it so

he may be attracted to male children more than females, that doesn't make him gay

[Hubert Flottz]

62. The fleas and ticks are really bad after the Aspens intertwine in

sekkktor R...Please...Put a nickel in the flute of another prostitute...as the orders from SICKPUBPOOP command require...the Deet is on the feet...repeat Deet is on the feet...the operation is a definite go...the lame baby duck quacks loudest at 16.00 hrs...that is all...

[]<sssssssssssss ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~< {Doink}

Edit...For Series Gramear

[ComerPerro]

65. The whole "lied under oath" thing doesn't check out. Its circular logic

for example, if his crime was "lying under oath", and that was his only crime, then why the hell was he under oath in the first place?

And, besides, at least he was a president who would take an oath to tell the truth. I haven't seen Bush ever do that. He has actually refused.

And not just over matters of sex with another consenting adult. Bush wouldn't even take an oath when giving testimony about 9/11

[OzarkDem]

66. Welcome to DU!

My Freeper co-worker said the exact same thing this past week. What a coincidence!

:shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. That's Because The Freepers Want To Conflate The Issue

Conflating homosexuality and pedophilia is offensive.

We're laughing at Republican hypocrisy...

[OzarkDem]

Hypocrisy thy name is GOP

They have such precious little ammunition left as they and the news media dig in for a siege.

Still can't figure out why the Aspens are turning against themselves, tho...

[ComerPerro]

78. Gee, what are the odds of that?

Rush Limbaugh says something at the beginning of the week, by the end of the week every freeper in the world is saying it...


Not that freepers are lockstep, brownshirt, goosesteping Nazi fascists who can't think for themselves...

Its just coincidence that they all reach the same conclusion, on their own, at the same time, several days after their spiritual leader says them on the radio.

[OzarkDem]

83. And then

the same talking points suddenly appear here on DU posted by those who, shall we say, don't visit here too often.

[Corgigal]

67. Not to mention that Monica was hunting

President Clinton. Seems that Clinton has the purr factor and women were ah, offering him favors all the time. "It" came to him, he didn't have to eyeball teenagers to pick which ones he wanted. Now, Clinton was a dummy because he has so many enemies, but humans have failings. He paid a big penalty for that affair.

Foley is different. These pages were allowed to serve with their parents permission. I have haven't heard one word of a teen aged boy hitting on Foley, the news articles concerning this behavior makes Foley the predator. Clinton was never a predator, he never needed to be. I think that is why rw white males hated him. They have, nor will ever have the purr factor. Sexual harassment is awful for both sexes. Young people aren't always equip intellect wise, to handle this situation.

Nothing to do with sexual orientation. Remember were dems, we don't have a need to know what goes on in adults bedrooms.

[ComerPerro]

68. All I see from you in this post

is Republican apologist bullshit, talking points Rush used DAYS ago, veiled attacks on Clinton, and an attempt to make us look like anti-gay hypocrites.

And you can't back any of it up.

Pathetic

[helderheid]

74. and an alerted post at that. I couldn't agree more with your assesment

[earth mom]

71. This is the most DISGUSTING thread I've read on DU!

You are defending that piece of shit Foley?!

:wtf:

Sorry, but your B.S. argument doesn't fly with me or other parents on DU or in this country for that matter! That sick bastard Foley is a predator pedophile! End of story. :puke:

[helderheid]

73. Is hitting on teenagers normal for men in their "40s and 50s" ? This isn't

about gay sex. :eyes:

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

76. Anyone who compares Clinton with Foley needs more than a reality check

[opihimoimoi]

79. Who the fk is bashing Gays? This about Foley hitting on KIDs

and the GOPers who covered for him....allowing him to continue until caught....nothing more, nothing less. Get over it.

[Cha]

81. Nothing wrong with being

gay, Doc, it's the hypocricy and the preying on young Pages that has to stop.

[Moderator]

87. Locking

Flamebait