How can we withdraw from Iraq in one year

[chemenger]

and leave the country with some real hope for their future and not in a state of complete anarchy? I would think that if we are successful in taking back the House and possibly the Senate (barring any Repuke attempts to steal key elections)this would be the number one issue to have a plan for and yet I've seen little real discussion for this. Have I missed something or hasn't a real plan been put forward yet? If you could offer a plan what would it be?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Alright, Chem.

What's your plan on bringing hope for Iraq's future?

[chemenger]

7. The first thing we need to do undergo a total paradigm shift

ourselves. No matter what the administration says, you're not going to build a democracy in a land where Islamic theocracy has ruled for over a thousand years and the differences between Shiites and Sunnis has existed almost as long. Unless, of course you wanted to reestablish the Saddam Huessain or Palavi system of goverment to keep people in line though fear.

The first thing I would try to do would be to do everything possible to convince the top religious leaders of the Shiites and Sunnis to sit down together and agree to work out some type of a truce putting an end to the secular violence. The only way to do this however, is to build up our credibility with the religious leaders. This may be impossible but I would try. If we established some credibility with the religious leaders and armed with a firm understanding of the Koran I think it possible that the tenants of the Islamic faith could be used to persuade them that their God's desire for them is peaceful coexistence. The fighting won't stop until their religious leaders order them to stop.

Second, I approach the UN with beaucoup mea culpas for the previous admininstration's arrogance and then ask to commit their military and financial support for one year. In that year I would let our military leaders work up a plan to secure all hotspots and find and seize all terrorist cells and weapons caches. Also, I'd have them work up a plan to secure the borders to stop the flow of weapons and recruits.

Third, I'd work to reestablish credibility and relations with neighboring countries and hope to persuade them either help in a positive way to rebuild Iraq or else keep their hands off. if necessary, providing incentives to these neighboring countries would be agreeable.

Fourth, continue to rebuild the country's police force under the direction of the UN and providing them with whatever is needed to ensure their security both on and off duty.

Fifth, work to develop a representative government as unlikely as this may seem.

Sixth, get rid of all the contractors over there who are being paid exorbitant amounts of money for doing shitty work.

Now, flame me for being naive.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. You lost me at paradigm shift.

If you hadn't lost me there, you'd have lost me at "Islamic theocracy."

Iraq was formerly a secular nation.

If you hadn't lost me at "paradigm shift" and "Islamic theocracy" you'd have lost me at the U.S. convincing religious leaders to stop the fighting.

If you hadn't lost me at all of the above, you'd have lost me at the idea of trying to to seize all "terrorist" cells and arm caches.

If you hadn't lost me there, you'd have lost me at trying to "rebuild" a "police force."

If you hadn't lost me there, you'd have lost me at the part about developing democracy.

"Now, flame me for being naive."

Where have you been for the last three years? All of this stuff has been tried and it's just making things worse. Have you been paying any attention to Iraq at all?

[chemenger]

9. Damn, after reading your post, I'd have to say that

my head's been up my ass for the past 3 years.

Let me try one more time and then I'll surrender.

"You lost me at paradigm shift." The Bush administration has been saying all along that they want to spread democracy throughout the world, beginning with Iraq. I'm saying forget it. It ain't gonna happen so forget it. Our way is not necessairly the best or only way. Hence, paradigm shift.

"If you hadn't lost me there, you'd have lost me at 'Islamic theocracy.' Iraq was formerly a secular nation." Yes, I know that. But it was a secular nation only because Saddam enforced religious tolerance. And he only went so far. Sunnis were still favored over Shiites although there were no overt Shiite persecutions.

"If you hadn't lost me at 'paradigm shift' and "Islamic theocracy" you'd have lost me at the U.S. convincing religious leaders to stop the fighting." IMHO, the greatest threat in Iraq at this time is the civil war brewing between Shiites and Sunnis. To prevent this, we need to persuade Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sustani, Ayatollah al-Sadr and Sunni religious leaders that we only desire to rebuild Iraq after bombing the shit out of it, establish a tolerant government and then get the hell out. Above all, we need to convince them that we do NOT want to leave their country a fucking disaster.

"If you hadn't lost me at all of the above, you'd have lost me at the idea of trying to to seize all 'terrorist' cells and arm caches." From my admittedly limited understanding, one of the major complaints coming directly from our troops there is that they move into an area, clean it up then move on to the next. Having limited resources, they can't leave a "police force" behind to keep the area secured. I'm only saying here that this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

"If you hadn't lost me there, you'd have lost me at trying to rebuild a police force." I remember recently seeing a news article that reported the horrible conditions in a police training academy (built by the US) where the recruits were rained on with raw sewage from broken pipes. In another report, I remember hearing that they were pressed into service after only a few weeks of training because the need for police officers was so great. I know that there has been a lot of news lately about the work being done to build a strong police force but I doubts as to how successful those efforts have been.

"If you hadn't lost me there, you'd have lost me at the part about developing democracy." I never said "develop a democracy." I said develop an acceptable form of government. I am convinced a democratic government (especially a Western form of democratic government) is highly unlikely in Iraq. I do believe some form of benevolent government is possible however, if it has the blessing of the religious leaders.

"Now, flame me for being naive."

"Where have you been for the last three years? All of this stuff has been tried and it's just making things worse. Have you been paying any attention to Iraq at all?" Being 54 years old, my memory is not nearly as sharp as it once was. Be that as it may however, I disagree with you that all of this stuff has been tried. I don't think that the Bush administration has made any real attempts to talk to al-Sustani and al-Sadr as equals at the bargaining table. Nor do I think that they have made any attempts to talk to Iraq's neighbors in anything but threatening tones. And certainly, they have not yet approached the UN in anyway resembling humility, apologizing for their arrogance and asking for assistance for a limited period of time. I do agree with you that everything tried so far has been a disaster. Basically, I'm only asking if, given a concrete plan, there is still some hope for Iraq and withdraw our troops according to a definite timetable. So far, as far as memory serves me, I've heard a lot of talk but haven't heard of any definite plans.

So again, flame me for being naive (or uninformed)

[porphyrian]

2. Our troops' presence is causing as much of a problem as it's solving.

If we pulled every single soldier out in 24 hours, there would be no increase in the chaos, possibly a reduction. There are plenty of countries who would be willing to supply troups to Iraq to help them keep order that aren't hated by the indigenous populace and the world in general. The mess is our responsibility and we do need to clean it up, but there are plenty of ways to do that which don't involve a physical presence by Americans.

[KansDem]

3. This is what I would do...

1) Place orange jumpsuits and shackles on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and anyone else who created and perpetuated this madness;
2) Place them in a prison bus;
3) Drive them into the heart of Baghdad;
4) Kick them out the door onto the street;
5) Yell "Sorry!"
6) Take off for home.

This, of course, would take place at the same time all our troops were withdrawn from Iraq.

We managed to go into Iraq in record time, I don't see why timetables have to be set that require years of withdrawal...

[catmandu57]

4. Easy

Start walking backwards, turn the motorized vehicles towards the ports and Kuwait border, let nature takes it's course, then live with it.
We broke it and will suffer the consequences.

[Yupster]

5. Gorbachev was just in my town last week and

he said a few stunning things.

One of them was that we should use the model that the Russians used when they pulled out of Afghanistan. It became quite the talk around town.

The Russian model was to leave a weak government in place when they pulled out. The government was quickly overwhelmed by a loose coalition of Islamic groups who fought over Kabul for years until the country was about destroyed and then an Islamic militia finally took over to impose order. The government leaders the Russians left behind were publicly hanged.

Is that the model Gorbachev recommends? I would have like to have heard him discuss the point more.

My concern is that before we leave we need to get out the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who have helped us over the last four years. There's no way the government can hold. It will start melting away as soon as we leave, especially the army. We owe it to those people to get them out before we leave so we don't have another "Killing Fields". A lot of Iraqis have worked hard trying to build a democratic Iraq. I don't want to see them having their ehads sawed off on tv each night. I'd rather see them and their people here, safer and telling their stories on tv and in books.

[Jed Dilligan]

6. What the general said

was not that we would LEAVE within a year, but that Iraq would be ready to lead in security operations. He didn't mention a troop withdrawal. Those bases are called "permanent" for a reason.

[Bandit]

10. Easy Declare Victory and have big parade for returned troops

Watch as Iraqis once again rule themselves as they have done for over five thousand years....The oldest know civilization in the world and we have the arrogance to think they don't know how to care for themselves... :shrug: Americans sure are smug..

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Admit defeat. Load the troopships. Bring them home. Build memorial.

Then blame the "left" for the "stab in the back" to cover the asses of the politicians and generals who engineered the catastrophe.

[LynnTheDem]

12. By

airplanes.

[bigtree]

13. we can't guarantee or ensure Iraq's future, no matter how long we stay

we should just leave. our country has nothing to offer them more essential than their freedom from our polarizing, aggravating occupation


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree