What's the problem with embryonic cloning?

[boolean]

I was just watching the Michael J. Fox interview on CNN and one of the pukes mentioned that he's against the Missouri bill because it would allow cloning.

I wonder why people have such a big problem with human embryonic cloning. I understand it can be creepy to think about, but as long as the embryo is not grown to full term, I don't see what the problem here is. I would be against allowing a clone to grow into full term because the chances of it having a deformity or genetic defect is very high.

But why do people have such a problem with cloning an embryo?

[Ediacara]

1. The guy is conflating cellular cloning with whole organism cloning

He says he's against cloning which implies that what happens during embyonic stem cell research is whole organism cloning (like Dolly the sheep), rather than cloning individual cells. People, for whatever reasons, are generally against whole organism cloning in humans, and this guy is using slippery words to imply that stem cell research amounts to whole organism cloning.

[w13rd0]

3. Not only are they against it...

...it's NEVER HAPPENED. They've TRIED, and it just doesn't result in viable human embryos...

[Ediacara]

8. Well there was that Raëlian claim and the South Korean claim

Those claims may stick in peoples' minds, but the refutation as complete and utter bullshit may not have been heard by as many. It's unfortunate that the word "cloning" is applied to two processes that end up with pretty different results, and like I said, this guy is just exploiting slippery words to try to trick people into thinking that whole new embryos are created and then destroyed.

[w13rd0]

2. It's misinformation...

...no human being has been successfully cloned thru somatic nuclear transfer, EVER. For whatever reason, and I welcome them (the right wing) to claim its Divine Providence, somatic nuclear transfer, unlike the case with Dolly or cloned frogs, has NEVER RESULTED IN A VIABLE HUMAN EMBRYO THAT CAN REACH FULL TERM. The cloning, or forced division, of blastocysts that are FROZEN and going to be DISPOSED of, is an entirely different thing. It is NOT the "creation of life for medical research purposes", it is the DIVISION OF CELLS! Part of the problem I have with the Anti-Ammendment 2 people is their willfull distortion of the purpose and meaning of the proposal. They just willy nilly call shit what it is not in order to try and engender an emotional reaction in the uninformed.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

4. what if dick cheney was cloned? now THAT's scarey!

[Richard Steele]

19. Or a hundred 'dicksteeles' posting on DU? BE AFRAID! nm

[MissWaverly]

5. Frankenstein monster, booga booga

But the human body is all about cloning, if the cells did not make replacements, you would
die in a year since that is about how long a cell lives, your stem cells are constantly
building replacement cells, you have enough replacement cells made in your lifetime to
fill a 747, I heard this in a medical lecture I attended, you have to google on stem
cells for the scoop most of it went over my head.

[eallen]

6. It's man treading on the gods' territory.

That's really what this is all about. The wingnuts don't like the fact that we are animal and flesh. They want to imagine a magical soul, where there isn't one. And when scientists start to play at the edges of life or consciousness, it threatens their ideology.

[opihimoimoi]

7. Just think of a thousand Bushies running around and there is your reason to BAN the effort

[Warpy]

9. In the first place, they're not even embryos

they're blastocysts, fertilized cells that have gone through enough divisions to form sort of a soccer ball shape. The whole point is that these cells haven't differentiated at all, that they remain pure stem cells.

The problem with the stem cells in adipose tissue, in bone marrow, and even in cord blood, is that they've been differentiated into cells that will grow only into blood and marrow. That's the one thing the preachers are lying about. All stem cells are not equal. The hope for people suffering from Parkinson's, diabetes, heart disease, and other diseases lie in the undifferentiated cells, cells that will grow into whatever they're cloned into with the patient's DNA.

Embryo cells have started to differentiate into placenta, yolk, cartilage, nerves, and skin. They're too far along to be of much use.

[sandnsea]

20. Why is that word used? n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Every sperm is sacred!!!

There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
DAD:
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

GIRL:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

MEN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
WOMEN:
If a sperm is wasted,...
CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.

PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.
BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.
NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed...
CARDINALS:
...In your neighbourhood!

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everybody's.
MOURNER #1:
Mine!
MOURNER #2:
And mine!
CORPSE:
And mine!

NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

EVERYONE:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!

[applegrove]

11. The cloning part.

[nickinSTL]

12. Taking it just a bit further...

I don't really get the problem with cloning a full human...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should be doing it now, for sure, as full-organism cloning is, at best, in its infancy, and there certainly shouldn't be attempts to clone humans with so little understood about the ramifications.

However, if the technology was there, and was made safe...what, exactly, is the objection? Aside from the "playing god" aspect, of course.

[MissWaverly]

13. I don't either, isn't that what identical twins are

don't they have the same dna? I have seen a zillion mystery shows where they can't tell
which twin committed the crime.

[Akoto]

14. It was the one with the goatee. n/t

[MissWaverly]

15. you are funny, I was thinking of a Colombo show.

:-)

[nickinSTL]

16. yeah, actually...

clones would be less identical than identical twins...even those separated at birth...because not only would they have different environments and different parents...they'd have different generational influences.

[MissWaverly]

24. good point

but doesn't the egg clone itself and that's how identical twins are created.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. This is how they will cure diseases

At least, that is what I understand. They will be able to take your DNA, and use it and embryonic stem cells to clone a new pancreas for you if you are diabetic or a new spinal cord if you are paralyzed.

They won't be cloning an entire you, just the parts of you that need to be replaced.

[nickinSTL]

21. and...what is the problem with that?

I just don't get it...:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. The uninformed believe that those cells in that petrie dish are life

They forget that unless those cells are implanted in a womb, they will never become a baby. And since the stem cells used in research are the ones that are not wanted by the mothers who donated the eggs, they will NEVER be a baby.

I don't get it either.

[DawgHouse]

18. People are afraid of it because they've seen too many horror movies.

And they are afraid of what they don't understand.

[loudestchick]

23. It's the fear that men will become unneeded in reproduction. IMHO.

It may sound a bit "out there" but the opponents of stem cell research are also against in-vitro so they object to the available unwanted fertilized ova.

They say that only god can create a life...so we are tricking or overriding god when we manipulate for conception? They believe that god is all powerful...but we can trick him? They would agree that the children produced using AI are human...that they have a soul? Doesn't it also follow that god had his hand in the creation of that life? Not to these dogmatic wack-jobs! When we get to this point in the discussion their eyes glaze over and they begin to whisper the rosary. LOL!

I love to screw with the faithful!