Was it just me or was Cheney talking up The Pardon in his remarks

[XOKCowboy]

at the Ford funeral. It seemed to me that he went on a little TOOOO long extolling the virtues of pardoning a president (and by association the VP I'm sure) to "heal the country". It was so touching.

[waiting for hope]

1. He's looking for precedent.

[justice1]

10. I've been wondering if the administrations plan includes pardons.

[cwydro]

2. I thought so too

and unless I missed it; all the RWers speaking talked about the "difficult time" and so on in the country, but I never once heard the words "Watergate" or "Vietnam" until the chaplain spoke at the end.

I also thought the first religious speaker was speaking directly to Bush and Co. Fairly obviously about peace and so on.

[madeline_con]

3. Once the airbags started, I'sd seen enough.

I knew they'd have nothing to say that I wanted to hear.

Hastert and Dick made me :puke:

[XOKCowboy]

4. I was cooking dinner and had it on in the background..

I was surprised to hear Cheney speaking and recognized that evil voice immediately. All I heard was pardon this and pardon that.

I agree with the :puke: I turned it off when dinner was done so I could eat in peace.

[madeline_con]

6. "... pardon this and pardon that ..." Getting us used to hearing it...

like when he said "WMDs" and "Saddam" in the same sentence about 50,000 times.

He'll start saying "*" and "pardon" together every chance he gets for a while.

[XOKCowboy]

8. They know how to use NewSpeak..

How did Bush put it? "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."

Do we have to put up with these people for 2 more years?

[Drum]

5. Keep this kicked and visible!

:kick:

[MannyGoldstein]

7. NY Times Agrees

Cheney Hails Nixon Pardon at Ford's State Funeral

[XOKCowboy]

9. Interesting article. I like this quote..

``In politics it can take a generation or more for a matter to settle, for tempers to cool,'' Cheney said. ``We will never know what further unravelings, what greater malevolence might have come in that time of furies turned loose and hearts turned cold. But we do know this: America was spared the worst and this was the doing of an American president.''

Is that sucking up for his own pardon or what? Me I want to see him in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffs.

Also interesting that Rummy was snowed in in New Mexico. Too bad he couldn't call in his ol' buddies the National Guard to helicopter him out. Oh wait! They're in Iraq!

[Garbo 2004]

11. Oh what horseshit. (Not what you said. Cheney's BS.) That asshole even retroactively fear mongers.

"what greater malevolence," "that time of furies turned loose." Bullcrap. Like it was a time like the French or Russian Revolution. Like allowing the rule of law to function unimpeded would have resulted in chaos, Commies coming over the border, cats and dogs living together.... Bullcrap.

Instead, it was a rare opportunity to see the government actually doing what it was supposed to do, as the framers of the Constitution intended. The rule of law. Nixon avoided impeachment by resigning. And legal accountability via the criminal justice system was prevented by the pardon.

Nixon was by that time disgraced and unpopular. He was an "embarassment" that the Republicans wanted put out of the way, to enter a quick obscurity without more scrutiny. Cheney fosters the myth that it was some partisan witch hunt and the nation was so delicate and fragile that it would have been ripped apart. Baloney.

The repetition of the myth is of course is entirely self-serving for Cheney and his buds who regard the "unitary executive" as above and beyond the law. Unsurprising that Cheney would characterize the rule of law extended to the Executive Office as a danger to the Republic. Another Big Lie. Cheney plays the fear card again.

Yes, it did sound like Cheney was trotting out a talking point perhaps for future use. Justice is indeed something Cheney should fear.

[cassiepriam]

12. The new meme: Pardon equals Healing.

You are going to hear this a lot in the future.

[H2O Man]

13. Right.

In fact, many a neoconservative was practicing the new meme in 2006 in an attempt to "help the country" move beyond the Plame scandal. Significant efforts to secure a Scooter pardon were made -- we can find them on Libby's "defense trust" web site. They were disappointed when Bush refused to grant the holiday pardon. As the trial gets closer, and certainly when libby is convicted, they will become louder. Much louder.

[cassiepriam]

14. Interesting, it means they know they are nailed in court.

If pardon is the way they are going.

Edited to add: Happy New Year H20.

[H2O Man]

15. Yep.

Anything can happen in court, of course. I should be frank, and admit that there is a chance the jury will return a verdict of "not guilty." But the chances of that are less than 1 in a 100. All of the court filings indicate that the case the prosecution will present is overwhelming, and that Judge Walton is not going to allow the defense to confuse the jury by making the focus anything other than what Scooter is charged with.

If the neoconservatives were confident that Libby would be found "not guilty," they would be happy to go to court. They would love the opportunity to put the Plame scandal to rest. But that isn't going to happen.

I think that there is also a growing concern about the Wilsons' civil case. Even when it was first confirmed that the case was being filed, many neoconservatives laughed it off. They were sure that it would be easy to get it tossed out. But the case isn't weak. There are parts that are still looking uphill, but most of it looks like real trouble for the OVP/WHIG/OSP folks.

Happy New Year!

[cassiepriam]

16. The best they can hope for is to delay it all as long as possible

and then get a pardon.

But yes, I have not ruled out something they pull out
of their hats to save themselves. Like Rove did with Fitz.

[H2O Man]

20. I think that

some of the necroconservative machine is likely unhappy with the members of Libby's legal team, who have actually worked in good faith with Mr. Fitzgerald to move things along. They have agreed to a large number of the things that could have potentially dragged the case out far longer.

[cassiepriam]

22. How very interesting.

I don't know what their strategy is, but making nice with Fitz doesn't seem high on their list. And Fitz would certainly understand and expect them to launch a vigorous defense. So their desire for speed is self serving?

So why would they want this to move fast? Before certain people are out of office? What is their thinking?

A giant poker game and the stakes are higher for some now, rather than later?

[H2O Man]

23. It involved

the huge number of things (documents, etc) that the defense had originally said it might need to bring in to defend Scooter. Part of that got flushed down the drain when Mr. Fitzgerald nailed the "memory expert" in the pre-trial hearing, and Judge Walton rejected that nonsense. Then, Team Libby began to attempt to say there were only two choices: (1) Scooter was really, really busy, and plum forgot the Plame stuff; or (2) Scooter wasn't so busy, and was a liar. The prosecution has said there is a third option: (3) Scooter was very, very busy, and the operation against Wilson was part of that busy schedule -- and Scooter lied to the FBI and grand jury. Thus, the defense does not need to bring in tons of documentation to show Scooter was busy: Mr. Fitzgerald agrees he was!

When the trial begins, people will be happily surprised how strong Mr. Fitzgerald's case is.

[cassiepriam]

24. So typical pre trial maneuvering.

Fitz always does his homework, so I have no doubt he will have a good case.

What do you think Libby's mood is?
Is he optimistic? Depressed, angry?

[H2O Man]

25. I know that

on the day he was indicted, he broke down crying. I think it is safe to say that he is becoming anxious as the tral approaches. He is smart enough to know that he will be convicted. It seems unlikely that Judge Walton will allow him to remain on the outside while the attorneys appeal the conviction. Very few people enjoy being locked up, and Libby is facing a significant amount of time in prison. All the contributions and compliments of his supporters fade into the distance now. More than any other time in his life, Scooter feels alone.

[cassiepriam]

26. Very interesting. I think his mental status has to influence the trial.

He is not angry and defiant, not feeling secure in his situation, like most of the other repugs arrested.

The tears indicate that he is facing reality, at least he understands his situation.
Of course most likely not tears of remorse, but tears that he got caught
and is going to have some consequences. But he is not in denial and as you say is
smart enough to know what is happening. He also is not feeling the love from his higher ups.

Do you think Fitz offered him a deal to squeal on Cheney and or Bush?
And Libby refused? So he knows what that means. Hard time.
But if Libby continues to get more scared can't he still cut a deal?
Or am I totally off base?

The pressure had to be intense from both sides, to deal vs keeping his mouth shut.
And his sense of loneliness may mean his allegiance to his bosses will diminish? He will tend to make the best decision for himself and family in the long run. Unless of course he already has, his payola safely in an off shore bank account. Maybe he did make a deal, but not with Fitz.

How many years of prison is he looking at? And do you know where he will go?

I just think that the psychology of it all has to be a factor in this.

[H2O Man]

28. In the weeks

before he was indicted, but after getting his letter, Libby and his attorneys were in communication with Mr. Fitzgerald's office, discussing options. One option was a plea deal. I do not know exactly what the deal Mr. Fitzgerald offered, or exactly what Team Libby proposed. But Libby did reject the prosecutor's offer. It has been reported that Scooter rejected it because it required him to serve what Libby considered too lengthy a term of incarceration.

It is possible, even likely, that Mr. Fitzgerald made part of the deal that Mr. Libby would testify truthfully. We all remember the statement at the press conference, regarding throwing sand in the umpire's eyes. In general terms, if one has rejected a prosecutor's offer before trial, and then looks to make one at trial time, one needs to have something of value the prosecutor wants. That would be testimony on VP Cheney's role.

Judge Walton is not known for giving light sentences. Libby is facing a significant sentence. And he will not be on vacation in a "country club" atmosphere. This has to be a major factor in his thinking these days.

[cassiepriam]

29. So Libby gambled.

That he would get a lighter sentence with a trial than with a plea bargain?
But it is more complicated than that I suppose.

OK Fitz put this on the table to Libby in the very beginning:

1. You must come totally clean on all info
2. You must name names, times, dates, and don't get cute about any of it.
3. You must serve x amt of years in prison.

Libby didn't like the deal, maybe he figured if he was going to rat out the big fish, he should get something in return from Fitz.

Why didn't Fitz make a sweeter deal so Libby would point at the higher ups? Why was Fitz taking a hard line? Certainly getting the goods on you know who would be worth reducing Libby's sentence?

Maybe he is wanting Libby and/or others to sweat a bit.

Fitz is playing an interesting game.

[H2O Man]

30. From the beginning

of the investigation, Libby has shown an intellectual disconnect from what was real. First, he was confident that no reporter would reveal their sources, and so he lied to the FBI. Then Mr. Fitzgerald came on board, and the reporters and Scooter were subpoenaed to testify to the grand jury. Scooter was trapped, and had to stick to the same set of lies he had started with -- mainly, that Russert had told him about Plame.

A few reporters cooperated with the grand jury. Also, a couple WH staff people did, including one with direct knowledge of Libby's interaction with Russert. A couple journalists would stretch things out (Miller & Cooper). When both eventually testified, it became indictment time.

Libby considered a deal. But he was unwilling to meet the "standards" that Mr. Fitzgerald set. He became convinced that it might be possible to "grey mail" the executive branch, and make a trial impossible. Didn't happen. Then the "memory expert" card was played. It failed. Now the defense is going to rely on VP Cheney as Scooter's top character witness. They are also going to try -- very, very, very hard -- to undercut at least two WH witnesses. And they also have to contend with Russert.

Things are going to be fascinating in mid-January. Mr. Fitzgerald has an overwhelming case to present. I can't help but think of something my father used to say that LBJ used to yell when he was engaged in a conflict with people: "I want that bastard's balls in my hand, damn it!"

[cassiepriam]

31. Well his disconnect was based on reality.

I should say the old reality. And that reality has always been that they could do whatever they wanted and get away with it.

That has been the way they have always operated, so Libby was most likely surprised when the rules changed somewhere along the way. Most sociopaths are shocked when they get caught, they assume they are smarter than the cops, and shocked when they
can't play the system like they always have.

So poor Libby thought the WH would protect him. And they threw him to the wolves. Funny, all the pals of BushCo have watched and participated in ugly, self serving and revengeful behavior. Yet they somehow think they are immune from the same treatment.

Karma is an interesting thing isn't it? I have been observing all year that those most loyal and/or pals to Bush Co have been the hardest hit in terms of reality and lessons. The media, the military, the courts, the south, the list goes on.

And btw it will be a pleasure to watch Fitz squeeze certain anatomical parts belonging to Libby et al. Actually he has been squeezing those parts for quite some time. We just have not been able to see it. I keep saying that the back story is going to be the best part of the story when it all comes out.

[cassiepriam]

18. PS The other issue is Cheney's health

... he looks like he is in congestive heart failure, all that narcolepsy
he exhibited this year (the falling asleep during the day etc.)

He is in very poor health according to the medical buzz....

[H2O Man]

19. I would not be

shocked if VP Cheney steps down before the end of the term, citing health concerns.

[cassiepriam]

21. No one can figure out how his heart is still ticking....

it is being held together with spit and masking tape.

He has to be on major IV drugs daily just to stay alive.
It doesn't seem likely that he would be able to sit for too
many hours a day in a courtroom. He needs regular daily medical
care.

They could certainly use the health card.

[XOKCowboy]

32. Nah.. He's too mean to step down..

It'd weaken Bush and make Bush more of a target for impeachment IMHO. Plus I think there's a pride thing also.

Love to see it though! :)

[WritersBlock]

17. Gotta disagree with his prescription. Orange jumpsuits & chains are much better salves,

especially when applied to an oozing neocon putrescence!

[peekaloo]

27. I wish that open cut under his nose would heal.

bastard.