A DUer asked H2O man "Who are you quoting?... Link"?

[trumad]

A second DUer replied--"himself" LOL
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3148280&mesg_id=3148329

That's how great our resident Plameoligist is when it comes to this very important story. AND this is why I love DU.... The MSM, in my mind, is quickly being replaced by citizen journalists who know their subjects through and through.

Many many props to H2O man on his tireless work on this case and for helping guys understand it all.

[porphyrian]

1. Yep, he deserves some credit. - n/t

[bananarepublican]

99. You can't live without water! Without truth, there ain't much hope. H2Oman...

... does his best to rain truth upon us about certain issues.

I'm more of a DU reader than responder, but I have always appreciated H2Oman's contributions.

[Scout1071]

2. I agree.

Now I'm going to go kick and rec his thread as a show of approval.

Thank you H2O Man for all you do!

[WiseButAngrySara]

54. I so second that! And I missed this thread, so I'm glad it

was brought to my attention! H2O Man threads are ones I don't like to miss; even if I have to bookmark them for later!

[Ishoutandscream2]

3. Amen. Love his work on the topic

I rarely, if ever, watch or even read the MSM. I get my news right here.

While that's great, I still miss real journalists like Cronkite, Huntley and Brinkley, Severeid, etc. Now it's all a bunch of hair-dos and whores.

Keep up the good work H2O Man!

[RevolutionStartsNow]

4. I second those props!

I am following this story, and if it weren't for H20 man, I would have to rely on...the MSM?...to find out what's happening.

Where were you guys during IranContra? The Internets weren't even working then, I remember having to go to lectures and dig hard for information.

Thanks to all of our DUers who use their time to keep the rest of us informed, especially those like H20 man who do it so thoroughly.

[CatWoman]

5. I don't know which of the two of you I love most

:loveya:

[trumad]

9. O can't believe you're conflicted....

[Catherine Vincent]

6. Amen!

H2O Man rawks!

[Spazito]

7. H20 Man's threads are on my MUST-READ list

I would like to add my "props" to H20 Man for all his work and his wonderful insight into the Plame travesty.

[bleever]

8. Agree on all counts.

H2O Man also sets a great example of how to contribute to this community.

[hwmnbn]

10. H2O Man has to be the most organized human being.......

on the planet. He attributes all his quotes, it seems like he's read every book ever written and knows exactly what's on every page! His insights are presented with clarity and calm.

There are a few posters here that are always a must read, he is the main guy!!

Here's my props to H2O Man... :headbang:

[CrazyOrangeCat]

24. I've come to the conclusion . . .

. . . that he HAS read every book ever written!

And yes, H2O Man . . .:yourock:

[Richard Steele]

11. He's a goddamned NATIONAL TREASURE, he is! Mad props to H2O man!

[Swamp Rat]

12. YAAAY!!! H2O Man!!!

:kick:

He's one of the reasons I am here. :hi:

[eleny]

13. You take it for granted if he doesn't quote anyone that it's his

And his style is there in case anyone needs another hint. H20 gets my props!

[Morgana LaFey]

14. You're so right about the MSM. What I love is when one of them

peeps up from whatever it is they normally occupy themselves with, and NOTICE that the train has left the station and they're still sitting on a disconnected caboose, and start whining about it. Hahahah. They are sooooo over and done with.

[xultar]

15. YEEEEEAH! H2O man is my hero for DAYUM sure.

[me b zola]

16. I have big love for our Hedgemaster in Chief

:loveya:

[bleever]

22. From " The Irish hedge school and its books, 1695-1831":

...the masters remained deep in the affections of the Irish people as they fulfilled a multiplicity of roles such as local scribe, historian, poet, defender of religion, Bible Society teacher, land surveyor, lawyer, parish clerk, revolutionary and political activist.

[Straight Shooter]

17. Hear hear.

:thumbsup:

[Catherine Vincent]

18. You guys want to hear a funny story?

A while back some poster came on inviting H2O Man to post diaries on the Daily Kos, I believe I came on the thread and supported it. But I actually didn't want him over there. I thought they were trying to steal H2O Man from us!B-)

[carolinayellowdog]

19. DU has been more credible than the MSM for years now...

and H20 man is one of the major contributors

[Wiley50]

20. So is Octafish, Seems Like A Dream and a few others

DU Rocks!!!

[WiseButAngrySara]

56. YES! ....n/t

[bonito]

21. Kick for H20 man and others as well!

[Richard Steele]

23. BTW, I almost forgot: recommended. nm

[DemReadingDU]

25. another K&R for H2O Man

[puebloknot]

26. And for helping girls understand it all, too! :) nt

[bleever]

27. In defense of the DUer who asked: it's a big world here.

So many forums that there are geniuses at work that I'm not acquainted with.

I've been shocked when people have waded into some discussions with innocent questions, when most people there are a tight-knit group of enthusiasts/scholars. But welcoming new participants is one of DU's strengths, so I would never prejudge an honest question.

Okay, I have. But I've gotten over it.

[Ksec]

28. Agreed

That guy knows his stuff.

[Lugnut]

29. K&R for H2OMan

His posts are on my Must-Read list.

[tblue37]

30. I joined DU back in summer of '04

because I was always over here reading H2O Man's stuff on the Fitgerald investigation. I followed a link to one of his pieces from The Smirking Chimp. The Smirking Chimp has kind of jumped the shark, but I have stuck with DU.

[CatWoman]

31. I started out on The Smirking Chimp

as did a lot of other DUers.

And man, do I miss The Horse :cry:

[tblue37]

35. Did I know you on SC?

Did you have the same name there?

I left after some of my favorite posters (like Kwadwo) were driven away--and Shadowthief was even banned. That (and the humongous omnibus threads) took a lot of fun out of SC for me. I have enjoyed it here a DU, though--and H2O man is still one of the posters here I always look for to read.

[Auntie Bush]

70. Same here...then I went to Daily Kos. to push Clark.

Got driven out of there by Deaniacs...plus Kos' new format. I liked DU's much better and I'm still here. I also like BuzzFlash and check it out once in awhile ...but I seem to get stuck on DU. Yeah! DU!

[Kurovski]

32. K&R 4 H2O man!

:kick:

[fooj]

33. Yes. H20 Man...resident Professor of Plameology!

You teach us well. Thank you for all that you do. :applause:

[mzmolly]

34. H20 man, our resident sage, patriot and investigative reporter.

DU would surely not be the same without him.

:loveya: H20 man! :hi:

[mogster]

36. I agree with that!

:yourock: H2O man

[Pastiche423]

37. Waterman is DU's teacher

He certainly has taught me a lot.

When I read his words, I can almost hear him speaking. (He sounds like James Earl Jones. lol) His words form images that we can see. He is reading bedtime stories to us. Bedtime stories that are true life.

I admire him and thank him for his brilliant work.

[calimary]

38. Many, many props indeed. And SO well-deserved. H2O Man is always

thoroughly well-informed, insightful, and eloquent. I love how he connects the dots, and the perspective he brings to his comments. Always a good read! You consistently come away from it having learned something. If NOTHING else, you usually get a great quote from his extensive and well-read collection.

[Philosoraptor]

39. Mega dittos!

[Lochloosa]

42. Freeper!!!!!!!

:toast:

[enigmatic]

40. Waterman is my favorite writer on DU

His amazing posts on the Plame Investigation are the best of DU, and he deserves all the acclaim he gets...

[trumad]

41. kick

[Donald Ian Rankin]

43. DU will never be able to replace mainstream news sources.

Because it's unsourcable and unaccountable.

It may very well be that at some point in the future internet blogs will be capable of providing a higher quantity of accurate information faster than newspapers and television news sources, but there will always be so much inaccurate information mixed in with it that the professionals will still be needed (n.b. please spare me the rants about professional news sources being unreliable).

[trumad]

44. Judy Miller---is that you...

Or maybe you're John Solomon--- nope... CiCi Connelly.... OK---then maybe you're Howie Fineman or Howie Kurtz.... Am I getting close?

Maybe Jeff Gerth or maybe Frank Rich or the late Mike Kelly writing about Whitewater?

Oh but you want to be spared the obvious.... :eyes:

[xultar]

45. BUHWAWAWA!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

49. You've just gone a long way to proving my point, in two ways.

Firstly, you *know* those names, because the things they said were checked. You can't tell which DUers have and haven't supplied inaccurate information.

Secondly, and more importantly, those people have, in the main, become famous or at least infamous, because they're very much exceptions rather than rules. The same is not true of people who post inaccurate information on the internet.

[trumad]

52. Dude I'm only scratching the list of media ho's.

So what you're telling me is that me and other DUers are a bunch of rubes who all of a sudden forget how to use Google to verify info that they read albeit from the MSM or the internets?

If something gets posted here on DU that smells fishy---it will be exposed in a nano-second.

Dothcha wish that the MSM editors acted that way? They obviously don't.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

58. Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you, I'm afraid.

True claims get "exposed" with almost as much enthusiasm as short ones. And the widely-held on DU believe that DUers are better at critically assessing the truth of a claim than others is not, I fear, an accurate one - it just seems that way, because they tend to all make the same errors and thus agree that they're all right (anything that confirms their prejudices is likely to be accepted enthusiastically; anything that doesn't will be "questioned", and people will be smug about "not buying into it" and "seeing through it"). "A bunch of rubes" isn't a phrase I'd use, but it's not a bad one, I think.

[trumad]

62. Come on--you're original post with this was: "Because it's unsourcable and unaccountable"

You're talking DU there: The claim is totally false.

Everything is sourceable--- and here on DU, if you don't provide ample enough sourceable evidence, then you will most definitely be held accountable.

I don't get your argument here? Are you saying that the MSM is more reliable that say a guy like H2O Man?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

95. Almost, but not quite.

I'm saying that I can rely on the MSM more than I can on H20 Man, and unless you know about him beyond the context of his DU posts then the same is true of you, or anyone else.

For all I know to the contrary, he may be completely reliable and only post accurate stories, but I have no way of being sure of this, and there are lots of people who aren't.

[Octafish]

46. H20 Man is better than ABCNNBCBS NYTWSJ etc etc because he tells TRUTH.

We the People need it more than gold.

Unlike the presstitutes and other well-paid liars co-opted by Corporate McPravda, H20 Man lowers the wood of Truth on the gangsters, warmongers and traitors who work to hijack the nation.

Thanks, H20 Man.

[blm]

53. So true - and you are right up there doing the same, Octafish.

.

[WiseButAngrySara]

57. You are so right blm; Octafish is another DUer I have

bookmarked consistently! DU is so blessed...

[blm]

65. and you're no slouch in making needed posts, either, Wise.

You know how to stir the activists among us.

[Imagevision]

47. It's for people like Waterman that CNN says; "And this is what they're discussing on the internet"

[Karenina]

48. That was hilarious!

I was so embarrassed for the poster! NOT! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ms liberty]

50. H20Man is DU's Sensai...

He's one of the few members whose posts I NEVER pass up. I read every one. And I pay attention to his comments in any thread I read. He is intelligent and wise, and he always makes sense.

K&R

[Vidar]

51. Applauding H2O man.

[maine_raptor]

55. H2O man has become a must read for me.

Along with a bunch of other's. I'd buy that man a beer (or water, if he prefers) any time of the day. :toast:

[Lasher]

59. Don't let it go to your head, H2O Man

But I want to be just like you when I grow up. :thumbsup:

I guess this isn't going to be one of those days when you wonder if your efforts are appreciated by anyone. :toast:

Lasher

[Annces]

60. Cheers for H2O Man

He adds much quality and charisma to DU.

[Sweet Freedom]

61. I joined DU because of his Plame threads

And I used to have a "Why?" avatar because that was the question he always asked... (I'll have to dust that off and re-use it)

[H2O Man]

63. Thank you.

I appreciate this thread. I'm pleased to be part of the DU team, and I enjoy the on-going "Plame Threads."

In previous discussions about the difference between the corporate media and the internet sources, I have noted that the corporate media is designed primarily to "sell" a product. While I enjoy and admire a wide range of journalists from the corporate media, I recognize that there are some limitations. One that is closely connected to the Plame scandal can be found in Corn & Isikoff's book "Hubris," in which the authors detail the extreme pressure that Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney applied on MSNBC/NBC, because they were furious that Chris Matthews was reporting the truth about the Niger yellow cake lies.

I think that the corporate media is a good resource. I have relatives who either are now or have been employed in the corporate media. They are aware of both the strengths and weaknesses of that form of media. In my mind, the corporate media is largely like the fast-food producers. And some people really enjoy a wonderful McDonald's burger.

Other people favor a home-cooked burger. And that's what the internet, including DU, offers. It doesn't mean that every burger is a masterpiece. But it does mean that there is a wider variety to select from than one finds on that McDonald's menu. It's true that we do not have Bob Novak wearing a Hamburglar outfit on DU, but that's a good thing.

Anyhow, thank you again to all my teammates.

[trumad]

66. You're right---every now and then I enjoy a good Big Mac at Mickey D's

just like every now and then I pick up a National Enquirer at the checkout stand.

The ""sell" a product" aspect of the media is what is slowly but surely turning media into a national disgrace. They are National Enquirer-itizing their news with made up bullshit and scintillating talking points issued to them by their so-called political sources.

I have great disdain and mistrust of the MSM and have developed a pretty sensitve bullshit detector when I venture into their world.

Just today, the WAPO published a pure bullshit story about John Edwards written by a guy who should be a an intern wanna-be the National Enquirer. How many times does a guy ( John Solomon) have to be exposed as a hack before he's drummed out of the business. NOPE-- It seem the bigger the hack, the better the job.

[Catherine Vincent]

68. You're quite welcome!

:hi:

[The Count]

64. Let's hear for H20 and competent journalism! We surely need it!

[IWantAChange]

67. Many thanks to H2OMan - knowing so many facts will make following the trial

that much more fascinating as it unfolds.

[Beam Me Up]

69. If this is a TGF 4 H2O Man Thread, I'm in :-)

Stellar!

[Tellurian]

71. Me TOO! Count me in...

I can remember when on a thread we started years ago, I think H2O man will remember too,
the consummate poster announced it would be coming to trial soon. We all just laughed and
said (the poster in question greatly affronted) If we're Lucky, in a few years...IF WE'RE LUCKY!

Nice to know when you keep the faith...LUCK becomes reality!

Kudos, to you H2OMan...for archiving all our research. Mine crashed with my old puter!

I fondly remember those days, remember when Merh came on board...

[EFerrari]

73. Me, three. H2OMan has helped me time and again not only with information

but also via the analyses he shares with us.

K&R

[July]

86. Me, four!

H2OMan's analyses are must-reads and are very well-written.

Sadly, one cannot watch or read the corporate media without skepticism these days. Judith Miller's NYT front-page article with "this reporter" watching an unidentified Iraqi general poking around in the sand for WMDs was laughable, and there is far too much framing of stories so as to benefit Bush and Pals or damage Democrats (there was a recent article in the NYT about a guy who supposedly is influential with Nancy Pelosi, and it was rife with "sources say" and innuendo, while being extremely weak -- read "lacking" -- in any real support for the argument; this is the kind of writing that just chaps my ass).

[BuyingThyme]

72. I can't read more than a few lines.

Lots of other people's words, but no substance.

[Tellurian]

74. It must be the FULL moon...

The information gleaned by H2O Man is the real deal.
I was part of a team, all of us working side by side, including H2O Man.

We all wanted Joe Wilson to succeed. Mr. Wilson's brave attack on Bush's cry for the IRAQ War
Bush touting WMD, publicly refuted by Wilson. The retaliation for such bravery, Novak revealing
his wife's secret identity rendering her in harms way and those of her covert contacts.

All of H2OMan's info is accurate, archived from documentation taken at the time of the event.

[BuyingThyme]

75. H2OMan's info is not accurate because

he has trouble understanding his own subject matter.

For instance, his latest nonsensical item starts out talking about grand juries. Now, because H2OMan recently attacked me in one of my threads, which just happened to touch on grand juries, I know with absolute certainty that H2OMan has no idea what grand juries are all about. (That probably explains his opening.)

As for the specifics of the Plame case, H2OMan doesn't even understand that the underlying defense of the people involved is that they believed they were doing what the president wanted. How can H2OMan be taken seriously if he doesn't even understand what's going on?

[Me.]

76. Nooooo...

The defense of the person on trial is A.) he forgot and B.) the info didn't come from him in the first place but from journalists and therefore he didn't have a reason to lie. This case is not about who revealed Plame's identity but OOJ and Lying, to a GJ and to the FBI. That is what people don't seem to understand.

As for the president...it is more than evident that if Libby was trying to protect anyone, it was the veep.

[BuyingThyme]

77. Actually, I was talking about Bush's admission that he authorized

Cheney to authorize the leaking of classified information.

I once brought up this fact in a thread, and H2OMan came along and attacked me because he had absolutely no clue what I was taking about. He, H2OMan, didn't understand the central issue of the Plame case.

When I explained it to him, H2OMan got real embarrassed and started calling names.

[Me.]

84. If You're Talking About The NIE Document

Then you're talking apples and oranges or rosemary compared to thyme

[BuyingThyme]

89. I'm talking about the chain of events

which reportedly led to the outing of Valerie Plame.

Is she an apple, or an orange?

[Me.]

92. The NIE Is Only Relevant To This Trial In A Peripheral Way

“In it, Mr. Fitzgerald notes that he is not going to argue that Mr. Libby's release of classified NIE information was illegal. Scooter isn't on trial for that. However, he notes that he wants the option to counter any suggestion by Team Libby should they argue that all of Scooter's disclosures of classified NIE information had been clearly authorized by his superiors.”

"The timing of the declassification relative to defendant's disclosure of the NIE to reporters is unclear. The government should not be muzzled from raising any questions about the declassification's timing. ...."

“"Defendant testified that he recalled a 'go-stop-go' sequence in discussions concerning authorization to disclose the NIE, that is, he was authorized to disclose, then he was instructed to hold off, and then later told again to disclose ..... The government simply wishes to make clear that it cannot affirmatively agree that each time defendant disclosed the NIE, he was authorized to do so."

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3148280


She is a peach!

[BuyingThyme]

94. Only if you're not familiar with the concept of motive.

[Me.]

96. Motives...

Transparent!

[Annces]

78. H2O Man is accurate

And he takes himself way more seriously than you Sponge Bob. Why jump into a gratitude thread except to get revenge.

[BuyingThyme]

79. I didn't know there were threads where the truth wasn't allowed.

[Annces]

80. You think you have the corner on truth - I doubt it

[BuyingThyme]

81. No, I just like the truth. What do you like?

[Annces]

82. Is everything attached to your ego the truth?

I wonder.

[BuyingThyme]

83. I don't know why you think my ego is the truth in the first place.

Actually, I don't even know what that means.

[Annces]

85. Don't you know anyone who thinks they are always right

just by virtue of the fact that whatever they say takes precedence over what anyone else says? That is ego attached to truth.

[BuyingThyme]

90. Well, something like that occurred up there on #78.

But I had nothing to do with it.

[kpete]

87. Wow, yes and yes and yes

H20 is one of the reasons I am still here.
Thanks to everyone here at DU for the amazing resources!!!
And thanks trumad for reminding me.

[Cooley Hurd]

88. Despite some sour grapes being displayed by a (very) few on this thread...

...Mr Waterman's theses on the subject of the Plame affair are pretty-damn unimpeachable.

Kudos and props to our H2Oman!:toast:

[trumad]

91. a (very) few?

No just one..... but there will always be one...

[Cooley Hurd]

100. Well, admittedly, I didn't read every post on this thread...

;)

[leveymg]

93. H2OMan is more than smart - he's kind and wise.

You can't learn that in grad school. It doesn't just come from study and experience. It doesn't mean that he's perfect. Nobody is. It's a quality that comes from within.

Proud to be part of the same team with that guy. :applause:

[malaise]

97. H2O Man is amazing

Kudos indeed.

[Nothing Without Hope]

98. Gratitude, respect and admiration to H2O Man, who has been a consistent

voice of canny insight, perspective, and, yes, wisdom through all the storms. So glad to have his posts.