CBS introduces us to B*sh's "straw man".... . really!

[annabanana]

I have never, ever seen the corpomedia admit to the straw man's existence before, ESPECIALLY as it relates to chucklenuts..

go. look. bounce up their hits on this...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/18/politics/main1419363.shtml

[bryant69]

1. Interesting article - dead on

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[saigon68]

62. The sheep love the CHIMPANZEE

They offer up their own children on the NeoCons Oil Alter for slaughter.

[HereSince1628]

2. Hmm, echo in the chamber that didn't get filtered. This is an AP story

from several days ago. I think the author was a woman.

It IS surprising that not only AP but also CBS has decided to mention that the argument that Bush is using to spend billions of dollars a month in a war on Islam is absolute CRAP.

[rucky]

3. Some say this thread should be kicked and recommended.

I completely agree.

[Atman]

16. Some have indeed done so!

;-)

[Kire]

66. I strongly disagree.

not really, I'm just using a rhetorical device

[AuntiBush]

71. I agree

with you're not really.

[Mandate My Ass]

4. THank you for posting this!!

I've been saying this for years. It's not just straw men either. They use false dichotomies, argumentum ad populam and several other logical fallacies when they frame the debate. It's high time somebody brought this up, let alone CBS.

[FredStembottom]

22. A tiny little bit of "training" goes a long way in combatting this.

Once someone is taught just what a "straw man" is, they seem able to spot them effortlessly. Usually, it just legitimizes a feeling they've had that something is wrong with what they are hearing - but don't feel confident to follow that feeling to it's conclusion.

Old, young, rich, poor - people can do this!

[electropop]

5. I'm impressed.

This may help some folks cut through the Bushit.

[bostonbabs]

6. kick

[mdmc]

7. good find, annabanana

Kick and R

[gratuitous]

8. A whisper! "The chimperor has no clothes"

I don't know why it took CBS three years or longer to notice that Chimpy's favorite rhetorical sparring partner is imaginary, but I'm glad they finally have noticed it -- all these deaths and all this wasted money later.

The question now becomes, of course, that having noticed that Bush likes to argue with whatever bats are flapping around in his belfry on a particular day, will their reporting reflect this reality, or will they continue to just give us a straight dose of Chimp Logic without providing any context: Context such as “well, nobody’s really saying that,” or “the president, making up more shit and talking out his ass as usual, said today . . .”

[Mandate My Ass]

10. lol

very true and funny too. :toast:

[redqueen]

31. I'm nearly certain this reality reporting thing is just an anomaly.

I do hope I'm wrong, though.

:hi:

[dorkulon]

9. AP, not CBS.

If you look closely you'll see this is an AP wire story.

[ginnyinWI]

26. wow--AP tends to be conservative! n/t

[Bluebear]

11. "a bizarre kind of double talk", from the article.

Agreed.

[trotsky]

12. K&R. Excellent article.

Thanks.

[DemoTex]

13. A primer of fallacies (Bu$hco's playbook).

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Critical thinking 101 from CBS.

It is really sad that these kinds of deceiving methods have to be pointed out to the public, because they're not able to pick them out for themselves.

[blondeatlast]

53. Those nasty librul arts have no place in 'Murka, friend.

The elimination of critical thinking exercises in school is no accident.

[Dr Ron]

15. Author under attack from right wing

I posted a follow up on this over the weekend. The author is under attack by the right wingers.

More info:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=702270&mesg_id=702270

and at:

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2348

[gordianot]

17. Seldom do you get real insight into a Narcissistic Personality.

This is classic. It really shows how Bush thinks, and yes does manipulate others.

[drm604]

18. The public needs to be somehow educated about rhetorical tricks

and taught how to see through them. Maybe one of the popular news magazine TV shows should do a segment on it.

[gordianot]

23. When I was in College long ago there was actually a game.

It was written by Lorene Green of all people. He had specific examples of these techniques the task was to identify the techniques such as straw man, begging the question, transfer, Log cabin, name calling, guilt by association etc., then given an issue come up with your own example. It was actually fun wonder if the game is still out there somewhere, it could be updated.


On edit see this link very similar to Green's game. http://www.academicgames.org/prop.htm

[AndyA]

19. "Some say" Bush is the worst President EVER

And I "Strongly AGREE."

[CrispyQ]

77. lol

:rofl:

[NewWaveChick1981]

20. Thanks for that article!

"Some say George Bush is a great statesman. I strongly disagree." See, W, I can do it too!!! :P I just created my straw woman.

[Hamlette]

21. amazing...shocking...K & R

[BrklynLiberal]

24. Excellent article. Thanks for posting.

I have forwarded it to everyone I know.

[Tsiyu]

25. Some say the Pretzeldent's calling Democrats "Big Spenders"

is the best joke of the century!

[autorank]

27. "Management" has the word out, time for * to go...first Cheney "resigned.

The "Restoration" has begun...would have been nice if the "powers that be", or "Management" as I like to call them, would have figured this out before the fucking world, as we know it, was coming to an end due to irreversible global warming.

Nice work fellas, I think "management" needs to be replaced as well.

[Canuckistanian]

28. The worst example I can think of

During one of his "speeches", Chimpolini said "There are some who think that brown people can't govern themselves".

I remember that commentators on both the left and right did a collective "WTF?"

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

29. How'd that make it through screening?...

...Somebody must be on vacation.

[ClayZ]

30. They stole "Some Say" from a song!

The Rose
(Amanda McBroom)

Some say love it is a river
that drowns the tender reed.
Some say love it is a razor
that leaves your soul to bleed.
Some say love it is a hunger
an end less aching need.
I say love it is a flower
and you it's only seed.
It's the heart afraid of breaking
that never learns to dance.
It's the dream afraid of waking
that never takes the chance.
It's the one who won't be taken
who cannot seem to give,
and the soul afraid of dyin'
that never learns to live
When the night has been too lonely
and the road has been too long,
and you think that love is only
for the lucky and the strong,
just remember in the winter
far beneath the bitter snows
lies the seed that with the sun's love
in the spring becomes the rose

[blm]

32. 90% of media was COMPLICITLY pushing Bush's strawmen for 5 years and

especially during the election years, both 2000 AND 2004.

It only took a category 5 hurricane to blow back at the media's hurricane force spinning for Bush.

[valerief]

38. Thank you. We mustn't forget that fact.

[Jacobin]

45. Yes. Its odd to see them, in effect, bitching about themselves

[blm]

50. I think that's the bottom line and why we won't see much real examination

from them. You certainly won't see this article up for indepth discussion in the broadcast media.

[Pacifist Patriot]

49. Too true!

It will take a long time for me to regain trust in the media, if ever.

[Fovea]

33. It looks like an editorial page

from back in the old days of America with a 'c'. That looks quite a bit like a free press doing it's first amendment duty.

Wow. I didn't think I'd see that again.

[LiberalinNC]

34. "Some say"...sounds like a Chappelle episode.

:evilgrin:

[Botany]

35. Some people say it was the Onion Man.

sooner or later America has to wake up to the fact he is as nutty as a squirrel turd.

The straw man has been part of the GOP playbook from Joe McCarthy .... let see if CBS
follows up this story. I bet the answer is no.

[Supersedeas]

36. Tell it like it is Mr. Fields

[izzybeans]

37. "Some Say: Izzybeans may be the most powerful poster on the

whole damn DU planet." Prove me wrong later and I'll prove my case with a link to this quote.


This is not just a Bush Straw man, it is THE straw man used by the entire RNC. The Daily Show nailed them on this a few months back. I wish I knew how to find a link.

"Some people say that the earth is held up by the shell of a turtle. While others find that the earth is held by a basket constructed by the pastafarians in honor of the flying spaghetti monster"

It's also a trend among the naive and the unsure to fiend support and legitimacy for their opinions. "Some say Iraq is currently enjoying the freedom like love of furry bunnies filled with chocalatey goodness. I tend to agree. Other people say, well you know I find its not the bombs that kill people its me. And I tend to agree."

And in politics is the mark of a liar without a legitimate reference to source. Rhetoric is what rhetoric does.

some people...I tell ya.

[Inland]

40. "Some say Americans should simply set themselves on fire"

"Well, let me promise you that I'm not going to set myself on fire, and on my watch no American is going to be forced to set himself or his family on fire, either" (riotous applause for the strong leader taking on the tough issues)

[izzybeans]

51. That's actually eerily accurate.

spot on.

[David Zephyr]

39. K&R

This should be spread around the country by e-mail.

[Inland]

41. The weird thing is, Bush loses to his own straw man!

*Some look at the challenges in Iraq and conclude that the war is lost and not worth another dime or another day," U.S. President George W. Bush said recently. *

Um........"Some"?

I suppose I am not so much giving up on the challenges in Iraq as I am giving up on Bush doing anything constructive to meet them. So maybe it's America that's lost.

[Cleita]

48. That's because he brain ran away from home a long time ago

and was replaced by straw.

[neuvocat]

42. Bush has done nothing but campaign.

That's all he's done. He's done nothing about disasters or the economy, racial problems or the environment (with grave exception to making them worse). Using the straw man is just one thing he's done when it comes to using logical fallacies. There's also the classic obfuscations he likes to use.

(You said "chucklenuts". Eh-hheheheheheheheheh. Heheheheheheheheheheheheheeheheh...)

[warpigs]

43. OutFoxed

This is the same as OutFoxed. When they don't have a statement from anyone they make it up. "According to some people...."

[ourbluenation]

67. I was just going to say this. Fox news has a "some say" addiction...

as featured in the documentary Outfoxed. Ya wanna yell at the tv and say "who the hell is this "some" person"...

[JohnnyLib]

44. Good Lord,

I think Walter Cronkite is coming back!

Great post.

[Jack Rabbit]

46. I thought Bush's straw man was Bill Clinton

When all else fails, they blame him for everything but actually starting Hurricane Katrina.

[Cleita]

47. I like this quote:

A specialist in presidential rhetoric, Wayne Fields of Washington University in St. Louis, views it as "a bizarre kind of double talk" that abuses the rules of legitimate discussion.

This is what we have been dealing with in this whole administration. In saner times, they would have been shot down by a competent and critical press.

[raggedcompany]

52. It's sad that our public educations fail to equip the average person

well enough to see this for themselves. As it is, this article goes way, way over the heads of tens of millions of Americans.

[blondeatlast]

55. As I say upthread, it is indeed sad, but NO ACCIDENT.

There's a very good reason the Right is attacking teaching critical thinking.

This is just one example.

[raggedcompany]

59. Of course I agree. I'd go on to say both sides have a stake in dumbing

down critical thinking. Dems aren't as brazen about it, but they're voting to spend the money on weapons instead of books, CEOs instead of teachers, and bases instead of schools.

[blondeatlast]

60. True that, although I hate to admit it. nt

[jaysunb]

69. and, some people say...

you are very smart. :toast:

[rambler_american]

54. Some people say

that anyone who missed this Iraq Anniversary piece on NPR this morning should click on the link.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5289399




:toast:

[blondeatlast]

56. Some people say this thread needs to stay at the top. K&R. nt

[leftchick]

57. emperor - clothes =.......

"All politicians try to get away with this to a certain extent. What's striking here is how much this administration rests on a foundation of this kind of stuff."

Wayne Fields
presidential rhetoric specialist, Washington University

[Eric J in MN]

58. It's an AP article, not just at CBS (nt)

nt

[BadgerKid]

61. With apology to the Steve Miller band

Some people call him the space cowboy....

[mzmolly]

64. Hmmm, more like "Take The Money And Run"

Welcome.

[mzmolly]

63. A little late for them to call Bush on his house of cards ey?

But, tis better late than never I guess.

"All politicians try to get away with this to a certain extent. What's striking here is how much this administration rests on a foundation of this kind of stuff." ~ Wayne Fields

That's because they can get away with it. They've been doing this for years without the media doing jack shinola. It's about TIME someone called them on their propaganda techniques. Let's hope it continues.

[mrdmk]

65. Another thread to the same story on Yahoo

link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x699818

This is how leaders talk to us now, just like talk show radio host!

[Redneck Socialist]

68. They're just noticing this now?

Better late than never I guess. Another way to put it is that Bush is a lying sack of shit, but I guess that doesn't fill as many column inches.

[Writer]

70. Maybe it's because they're not always the fucking "corpomedia."

Besides, this originally was an AP article. What corporation are THEY supposed to be supporting?

But it makes an excellent show of Bush's rhetoric.

[stickdog]

72. "Some say all Americans should be forced to drink poisoned kool-aid.

Oh, wait, that was us!"

GWB (speaking for Karl Rove & Dick Cheney, of course)

[Bluebear]

73. Some people say kick it to the top again. nt

[Seabiscuit]

74. Some say... * is doing a "heck of a job". I strongly disagree. n/t

[mcscajun]

75. Some say it's been too long since this thread was kicked...

I agree.

:kick:

[LisaLynne]

76. Some people say this thread can't be kicked.

I don't agree. It clearly can be. So, I'm right and "some people" are totally wrong!

[Trevelyan]

78. There are a lot of DUers on AOL Messageboard kicking ass!!

I seem to recognize a few sig lines ;-)

It used to be overrun with the kind of FReeper conservatives with ridiculous talking points (straw man). The number of FReeper types have been more than cut in half and the DUers are giving excellent comebacks to the type of ridiculous arguments that always leave me speechless so I just leave Internet truthsite URLs with a few paragraphs for the people who are waking up and looking for information on what the hell is happening.:o

I first found DU indirectly by following some of the URLs on AOL Messageboard when Kerry took a dive and I was determined to find out why.

I think the DUers are honing their skills for the coming 2006 elections to stop the FReepers and trolls in their tracks when they try to derail honest discussion of what is happening to our country and who the terrorists really are --- ;(

[mrdmk]

79. It seems to be able to argue with some of these people you need

several things going for you:

1) Plenty of time to read.
2) A very good memory for facts, names, time and dates.
3) To be able to articulate yourself in a convincing manner.

None of these things I have (of course when somebody goes to an extreme like saying, "none", they are lying).

Good for D.U. Buddies out spreading the word. Keep up the good work!

More straw man stories on the LMSM (of course this is on their news bog, if someone knows it is their paper please let me know).
link
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/03/president_bush__1.html