Behold the unfolding of a tipping point, the camels back is breaking,

[patcox2]

its happening now, right now, slowly at first, starting with Schiavo, the public revulsion at the Social Security plan, then the biggest bomb of all, Katrina, Iraq a constant slow boil all the time, Abramoff and Delay, the ridiculous Medicare drug benefit, it started slowly, but suddenly it has spiraled out of control. The majority of americans have come to accept that Bush is a corrupt and incompetent man.

Bush is over. What you are seeing is a major turning point, a major shift in public opinion. This is going to have a long lasting impact on our society.

Its way too easy to get fixated on minutia, details, to fail to see the forest for the trees. You have to stand way back to see the pattern. There is a lot of confusion. The republicans are completely panicked, leaderless, and desperate. That explains this idiotic idea of raising the immigration issue, something that conflicts their own base, and it explains McKinney, she's a buffoon and they were quick to try to use her as a desperate distraction from their own corruption (but it won't work, trust me, its like trying to bail out the Titanic with a teaspoon).

The public really hasn't digested it all yet, and thats why the democrats appear disorganized, there is not yet a clear direction to organize around.

There is chaos, the public has had this stark black and white picture painted for it for 5 years now, it was told that its all very simple and there's only one narrow path. Having found that is a lie, the people have no direction, they may bolt this way or that like a nervous herd for a while, until the mood coalesces into something more defined.

But thats all just part of the process of a major tipping, a major revolution in perception, a major change in direction.

The important thing is that once this point has been reached, the point of panic, confusion, desperation, its irrevocable. Bush is broken and he can't be put back together again. Its like falling out of love, looking at her or him and saying to yourself "what was I thinking." The shame at having been so wrong is projected back as hate for the person who deceived you. It is truly over for Bush, and not just Bush, he may have weakened his party to the point it will lose it all in November.

Another sign of it is the way the news doesn't even shock anymore, its scandal after corruption after scandal after incompetence, and its become the norm now to hear read and see stories of Bush flip-flopping and waving 9-11 and screwing up and tanking in the polls. And noone cares. If you are too caught up in the details and minutiae, you will be angry that noone cares, but actually, its just anothers sign of how bad things are for Bush that people don't care.

Republicans don't bother to defend him anymore, I hope everyone is seeing this, noone defends him anymore. It has become impossible.

The nation has finally reached that point where, as nice and patient and sometimes stupid as the public is, as much as they want to believe things are okay, as much as they want to believe our leaders know what they are doing, it has become clear that Bush is bad, that what he says is not true, that its all lies and fantasies.

His bubble has burst. The emporer is naked, and the people see it now.

When the public changes its mind, things happen. This will be interesting, and exciting.

[benevolent dictator]

1. K&R nt

[cain_7777]

56. Dangerous times

Just remember that Bush might be the most dangerous when backed into a corner. Like a trapped chimp, he might lash out.

[KansDem]

2. Excellent post! K&R

We have certainly come a long way since the days the media was reporting on the "Bush charm offensive" and his penchant for nicknames.

[electropop]

42. I never understood what charm they were talking about.

All I ever saw of Bush was offensive. very offensive.

[petgoat]

48. I never saw it either. nt

[wordpix]

59. no charm there, just the sweet smell of money---but now he's reeking of

corruption, scandal and fraudulent war.

[enid602]

3. treatment

Should we allow * to keep cyanide pills in the bunker during his last few days? Should we let him escape, only to flush him out of some rat hole some weeks later? Should his folks be given the Mussolini treatment (public stoning) in a New England town square?

[hwmnbn]

4. My vote is for ........

the Mussolini treatment. It could be telecast live. Hell, if it were pay-per-view, I'd get cable just for that.

[rodeodance]

5. what do you mean?--the Repugs are about to pass a new FISA law

....Republicans don't bother to defend him anymore, I hope everyone is seeing this, noone defends him anymore. It has become impossible.

[enough]

10. They don't defend him, but you are right, they are about to pass a new

FISA law just so he can go on doing whatever he wants. In some ways it seems to me the new supposed bash-bush thing is cover for continuing to do just what they have been doing all along.

[glitch]

6. They'll either have to come out as openly fascist, or fold.

What will they do? They can't afford to fold, unless a deal is made. They face too many indictments. So: blatant theft in November, or some excuse to cancel elections.
Either way, the truth about them will be too obvious to deny.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. I see our minds were traveling along the same tracks.

[glitch]

18. We are cursed to live in interesting times.

It's interesting to speculate on what they'll attempt, but I really do believe whatever they try won't succeed.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. I want to be optimistic...but I am so afraid of their total lack of any

morality or conscience.
They do not give a damn if the entire planet goes up in flames.

[PassingFair]

74. Mayberry Machiavellis

The BEST descriptor I've ever come across for
these amoral, greedy, ends justify THEIR means
pieces of dirt ever allowed to bilk a nation.

OK, there were some crappy caesars, too.....

[gordianot]

36. You are correct, while in decline they are more dangerous.

The professional military made up of all those small town, urban minorities, and general underclass could well be their eventual undoing if they become too blatant and seize the day. World War I also ended in the mutiny of the professional military and the underclass. I suspect we are well into World War III just don't know it yet.

Canceling 2006 elections would guarantee their demise.

on edit:
Let's see what happens to DeLay now that he has bailed out, maybe the deals have already been made.

[glitch]

37. Agreed. I think judging from their history we can count on an over-reach.

Which means they fail. I just hope our ptb can limit their failure to them, and their failure doesn't take us all down with them.
Cheers!

[BrklynLiberal]

7. Is it possible that as they get more desperate, they will take more

desperate measures? They will stop even pretending that they are abiding by any laws at all? The Repukes will create some sort of fake terrorist attack, W will call out the Army and martial law will be put into effect. There will be no elections, and we will have no more Democracy at all.
That is what I am afraid of.
These people have no intention of giving up their power without a fight.
:scared:

They have too many skeletons in closets, and I believe they have already "eliminated" many, many of those that have stood in their way.

[patcox2]

9. No, they'll simply lose the election.

They are bullies because they have power, not vice versa. When they lose the power, they will become docile.

They cannot steal the elections in blue states where the election machinery is in the control of democrats. Even in red states they can only steal close elections. They could do it while the nation was evenly divided, but not after this sea change.

After they lose, the activist republican supreme court will be their legacy, striking down laws passed by the democratic congress.

I would grant that some red states might make noise about secession, but then they'd lose their federal welfare, they all need the blue states to support them, they'll shut up and take it.

They would never cancel elections. The public simply wouldn't have it.

[BeFree]

13. I wished I had your faith

That they can't steal elections.

But I know better. They've done the dastardly deed twice now and the people barely even burped.

[blue cat]

16. It is going to take more stolen elections

before people finally get it. I'm thinking 2010.

[BeFree]

24. Let's hope not.

It will be too late by then. We have to get rid of the black boxes NOW.

[patcox2]

17. They did no more than Kennedy did in Chicago.

Really. They were only able to steal close states controlled by republicans. They could never steal a state controlled by democrats or an election that isn't close.

[BeFree]

22. Bull

These are not your father's vote counters.

These machines are controlled by a few programmers sitting in a closed box hundreds of miles away.

Gawd, I thought everyone knew how these new-fangled machines worked!

[slaveplanet]

54. Exactly, thanks for pointing out the real buffoon here

We're , not out of the woods
till we're out of the woods

[rman]

23. re. what Kennedy did in Chicago

Does anyone know whether or not Nixon did "do" anything in that election? It seems so unlikely that he didn't.

I think you're correct though: they can't just steel any election regardless of how the real vote distribution is.

[BeFree]

26. Its this kind of ignorance

That makes me feel there is no use. No use. Even DU has a forum on the stolen elections, but people won't open it, eh? No use.

[patcox2]

29. I know all about black box voting.

You don't know what I am ignorant of and what I am not. Me and black box voting go way back.

[BeFree]

32. All I can tell you by...

...is your words here. You don't KNOW how bad it is, obviously.

They can steal any vote they want, as long as it is cast on a black box. You should know that, if you know anything.

[TheUnspeakable]

38. don't be so sure of what you "know" and don't "know'

i don't understand people who just flat out say "this didn't happen" or "that didn't happen"
without looking at all the evidence. Did you read Fooled Again" by Mark Crispin Miller? Have you looked at TruthIsAll's statistics?
Please try to keep your mind open-we've been lied to for years. As far as Kennedy, it's "common knowledge" that his election was stolen in Illinois-

Mob didn't turn out vote for Kennedy: UIC professor

(snip)
No, the Mafia did not win the 1960 presidential election for John F. Kennedy, according to a study by a University of Illinois at Chicago professor.

<http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-mob21.html>


befree-sorry-I replied to the wrong post-not yours!

[fudge stripe cookays]

79. Are you kidding?

They ousted Kevin Shelley in California so they can do just that.

Keep putting out stories about California "turning more red," plant Arnie in there as governor, and make the people buy anything you want them to believe...that the "hippie granola-lovin tree huggers finally wised up."

I'm afraid you're being naive here.

[July]

104. I've been wondering how NJ (where I live) was closer in '04 than in '00.

I think I subscribe to your view that they will muddy the waters in juicy (high number of electoral votes) blue states with this "turning red" crap, then use touchscreens -- yeah, we have them -- to narrow the gap over a few election cycles until they're close enough for an outright steal.

I'd like to believe that it can't happen here, but I'm wearing tinfoil all the time now.

[bobbieinok]

98. be careful about RW talking points....reps + dems made a deal in 1960

repubs wouldn't challenge democratic party wins in Chicago AND democrats wouldn't challenge republican wins in southern Illinois

.....BOTH parties messed with the vote

[sendero]

41. He didn't say..

.... they can't steal elections. They can't steal elections that are not close.

There is no way they can siphon more than a few % of votes without it being glaringly obvious. Once it is glaringly obvious, that game would be over forever.

[BeFree]

43. Ummmm

To those who watched what was going on, it was glaringly obivious.

Ya know, just because you are on the dark side of the earth the sun still shines.

Why, we had exit polls that were totally messed up, we had outrageous numbers in dozens of states, and the two closest states had only a few hundred thousand of votes difference.... just above 1% difference.

The fooled us, big time. I was not fooled, it was glaringly obvious.

[sendero]

45. When it can't fool the average person..

... it is over.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

86. New Report on Ohio 2004

http://www.alternet.org/story/33006/

The Ohio Vote Debacle
Published March 3, 2006

...Therefore, to put it simply: at least 308,000 voters, most of them likely Democrats, were eliminated from the registration rolls prior to an election allegedly won by less than 119,000 votes, where more than 106,000 votes still remain uncounted, and where the GOP secretary of state continues to successfully fight off a meaningful recount.

There are more than 80 other Ohio counties where additional pre-November 2004 mass eliminations by GOP-controlled boards of elections may have occurred. Further "anomalies" in the Ohio 2004 vote count continue to surface.

In addition, it seems evident that the Democratic Party will now enter Ohio's 2006 gubernatorial and U.S. Senate races, and its 2008 presidential contest, with close to a half-million voters having been eliminated from the registration rolls, the vast majority of them from traditional Democratic strongholds, and with serious legislative barriers having been erected against new voter registration drives.

Stay tuned.

[BeFree]

106. They will stop at nothing, and do anything

They have cheated their way to the top and whoever can't figure that out needs to take a step back and review the situation.

We will never be able to stop them until most everyone finally realizes how we got here. It wasn't the candidates, it wasn't our fault: they cheated across the board. The proof is there for those willing and able to open their eyes and see clearly.

Thanks, Sees Clearly

[petgoat]

49. They can't steal elections that are not PERCEIVED AS close. nt

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

69. The question is how blatent must it be before the sheeple get it

Between what I know about e-voting security and improbable/impossible exit poll numbers, I got it immediately, but I understand statistics and work in information technology.

Plus, I'm a Duer and I pay attention to politics. Politics for many people is an unpleasant thing they pay as little attention to as possible.

[BeFree]

107. How blatant?

Obviuosly not blatant enough for some DUers. I don't understand how anyone here can cut an ounce of slack for the stolen elections. What do the cheaters have to do before people realize what's going down? Get nuked?

[BrklynLiberal]

14. I hope you are right.

:shrug:

[stlsaxman]

111. I just voted on a Diebold voting machine yesterday for the first time...

they control the votes. Very disparaging.



I pray daily for an ounce of the optimism you show in your post.

[darkmaestro019]

112. "Even in red states they can only steal close elections"

I've thought this repeatedly, and I desperately hope you are right....or that they get a bit ahead of themselves and TRY it when it looks just a little bit TOO weird for even the MSM to ignore, so the voting machine cheat can be eliminated for them once and for all.

And I wish the genuinely red states WOULD secede. We've got enough problems without putting weights around our necks BEFORE we try to swim. The blues there could come here and ask for asylum, and the reds here could get OUT and I could go to the store without getting screamed at about Jebus and the quaaaares. (sigh) (grins like doofus, dreaming this little dream)

In, say ten-twenty years, we'd see how well Red Amerika was doing. I'd like to go ahead and place my bet for "About as well as a snowcone in a volcano."

EDIT: Yes, I know. "Divisive!" The problem seems to be that we're willing to live and let live and they're willing to legislate until we CANNOT live unless we live like they want us to...

[wordpix]

62. this is possible & we have to be willing to fight & not be passive like

those in Germany who believed the propaganda as "truth" and went along with the Nazis.

[baby_mouse]

81. Imagine a Revolution in America.

Nah, never happen.

YES! REVOLUTION!

Nah. Sheeple too dumb.

GO GO REVOLUTION!

etc.

The puke administration knows no more than you about what might happen if they try to cheat. These people aren't fighters, they're cowards. They sneak about and lie and pretend. They twist and squrim under scrutiny, they giggle and snigger like schoolchildren. They have no backbone. Do you really think they'd withstand a revolution?

No. Of course they wouldn't. And THAT they know.

There aren't enough prisons to cope with a revolution in the States, not even now. They know that, too. For one thing, most of the prisons are overfull already.

Their own senators might betray them and join the revolutionaries. Many of the puke senators, most, in fact, are just windsocks, puppets, career politicians who swing this way and that with the political tide. They know that, too.

They don't want civil war, but what REALLY knocks the breath out of them is the idea of a revolution. How likely it is is difficult enough to tell that their terror of it blinds them to treating it rationally.

They'll back down, duck and run for cover and wait to yipyipyip at the ankles of the next Clinton another day.

They daren't play with reality any more. Reality is staring at them right now with a pale, baleful glare.

"You create *me*, do you?" it's saying to them. "Do you really? that's interesting. Tell me more....

You have my FULL attention."

[Beetwasher]

11. My Broken Toy Theory

Indeed, you are correct, I only fear what these murderous, bloodthirsty scum will do in their desperation.

Similar thoughts here (Broken Toy Theory):

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Beetwasher/12

[July]

105. I remember enjoying that when you posted it, Beetwasher.

And I think you are spot on about Bush and Rove, as well as on the real threat of whatever desperation moves they cook up.

It seems so clear that people have come around to the Broken Toy Theory, yet nothing happens, and the media acts as if the majority of citizens admire and respect the Bush Gang of Phonies and Cronies. Have you developed your theory to account for this?

[Beetwasher]

113. The Traditional Media Is Hopelessly Broken and Compromised

People are starting to wise up to that as well, thus the declining ratings for Fox and the downtick in newspaper circulation.

New media is where it's at and people are starting to "get it". We DU'ers have always been several steps ahead of everyone else.

[Pirate Smile]

12. Hey, haven't you heard? Now it is the Republicans that are disorganized

and out of ideas - Not the Democrats.


Turning the Tables
For once, the Democrats are getting their act together while it's the Republicans who are divided

On Capitol Hill last week, it was almost as if the two parties had decided to switch roles. At a press briefing, House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer was declaring, "Republicans don't have an agenda," a critique Republicans usually hurl at Democrats. The next day Hoyer and other Democrats from the Senate and House, along with state governors, got together to announce the party's unified plan for improving America's national security.

Meanwhile, Republicans were looking in disarray — even before the announcement this week that Tom DeLay would give up his House seat. Some House Republicans were quietly criticizing Majority Leader John Boehner for not supporting a 700-mile fence for the U.S.- Mexico border that was part of an immigration bill passed by the House in December, while Senate Republicans questioned if their leader, Bill Frist, was allowing his presidential ambitions to get in the way of passing immigration legislation. And as the Senate moved forward with a lenient immigration reform plan, a group of almost two dozen House Republicans held a press conference to strongly denounce the Senate GOP's approach.

The conventional wisdom in Washington in recent years has been that Republicans are more unified and disciplined and have better-articulated ideas than Democrats, who are often at war with one another and questioning their leadership. But lately the Democrats, looking to create a campaign platform for 2006, have put out some ideas that their famously fractured party largely agrees on. Earlier this year, they released a plan to reform lobbying following the scandals of Jack Abramoff. Last week's security ideas were hardly earth-shattering: increasing inspection of goods coming through U.S. ports, doubling the number of Special Forces troops, pushing Iraq toward full sovereignty by the end of this year, and increasing efforts to make the U.S. less dependent on foreign oil. Some Democrats, like Pennsylvania Congressman John Murtha, have called for more aggressive steps, like the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. But Democrats seem to broadly agree on the security issues that hurt them in 2002 and 2004.

And Democrats can't be accused of lacking ideas: many of the party's most prominent leaders are putting out long tomes detailing their views. Later this month, Ted Kennedy's book America Back on Track will lay out ideas to ensure universal health care for all Americans, and House Democrat Rahm Emanuel and former Clinton aide Bruce Reed will put out a modestly titled book called The Plan in August that includes ideas such as a national science and technology center modeled on the National Institutes of Health. Illinois Senator Barack Obama has told the Chicago Tribune his new book The Audacity of Hope, due out in October, will look to show how politicians can "shift away from ideological debates and focus on traditional American common sense."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x839523

[rman]

15. Excellent analysis

"This is going to have a long lasting impact on our society."

Either way, that's for sure.

I do share much of your optimism, but i'm not as certain as you seem to be.

[coalition_unwilling]

19. Heard Juan Williams on National Pentagon Radio this a.m.

say that only 30 House seats are "in play" in Nov, which would seem to belie your post. Weirdly, though, I get a sense that the Repukes are in a lot worse shape.

However, the Democratic strategy should be to tie Iraq around the Repukes' necks like a noose, starting TODAY! Otherwise, we face the very real prospect of what Dennis Kucinich warned of in the 2004 primary campaign: changing a Republican war\occupation into a Democratic war\occupation.

[patcox2]

25. Schiavo and Social Security make a better noose.

Seriously. It all started with Schiavo; Social Security was horrifically bad for bush, too. The war is not a great issue because we cannot solve the mess Bush has made.

[coalition_unwilling]

28. I agree that they are all bad for Bush, but

Social Security and Schiavo have both been dead (npi) for at least a year and the public's memory is notoriously fickle. Iraq, on the other hand, continues to deteriorate. 17 U.S. KIA in just the first three days of April, I think I read elsewhere on DU. Of course, making Iraq "the issue" would require breaking with the Gebhardt-Lieberman DINOs. I'm not sure we're there yet, although much closer than we were.

[patcox2]

31. Dead inside the beltway and among the chattering classes.

Not dead around the dining table.

[coalition_unwilling]

33. Hmm, you may have a point there. I think, as domestic issues go,

that Katrina is far more potent (and still alive also), because it shows the apotheosis of Reagan-Bushism social Darwinism: when the shit hits the fan, we are all on ur own under the Repuke theory of governance (or lack thereof).

[wordpix]

63. it did not all start with Schaivo; it started with a stolen election 2000!

And before that, we had the impeachment of Clinton over a BJ

[pdxmom]

20. I think the latest straw is going to be these "health savings accounts"

and the more Bushco pushes it, the heavier that straw will be. To hear him saying that those people with no health insurance can use these accounts to pay for their health care made me go "Huh?" - how is that even possible? If they can't afford health insurance, they can't afford to set aside their money into a separate health account...even the terminally stupid can figure this one out.

Another nail.

[patcox2]

27. Yes, that and stem cells and Schiavo and medicare and deficits.

These are things that have great impact on the non-political, and issues on which the democrats have a winning alternative to offer.

The war is a bad issue to run on, its a tragedy and we can't do much to make it better now.

[wordpix]

64. the $9 trillion in debt is a huge sticking point for all Americans, even

repukes.

[Boone]

30. He wears no cloths!

"His bubble has burst. The emporer is naked, and the people see it now."

When will he see that he is naked... and hopefully run for the hills!

[Senator]

34. Big Buuuuuuttttttt...... stay angry ... don't stop rowing....

... hold the finish. We can win many battles and still lose the war.

If we've learned anything since the theft of our democracy in 2000 it had better be that our own complacency is the worst enemy we have.

We can and must do far more than topple one tin-horn. We must undo every bit of damage possible. And what we can't reverse, we must acknowledge, demand accountability, exact punishment, and atone for our failure to prevent it.

Yes, it's extreme. But it's the only path to the Redemption of Our National Soul.

--
www.january6th.org

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happydreams]

47. Yea, what's with that?

She's far from a buffoon

[Festivito]

39. Still, that 34% better go down, or what will it say for US and democracy.

And to the plausible deniability of elections computer-stolen.
Allowing, when stolen, the lack of outrage.

There is another "tipping point".
When people realize the media was at best cowed, and possibly complicit.

If not, what will it say for the ability of democracy to long prevail.

[savemefromdumbya]

40. Bush is on the run

like a little rabbit

[MissWaverly]

44. I saw video of Condi's trip to Iraq

The Iraq leaders weren't even bothering to talk to her, it was really sad. Why doesn't someone see this? When they posed for a picture, they were completely stiff. It's
obivious that we have lost the hearts and minds over there. We have sacrificed a great
deal only to be at the point of being handed our hat and asked to leave.

[petgoat]

50. I've heard it said that Arabs won't talk to women leaders. Some said

this was a reason Condi shouldn't be Secy of State.

[MissWaverly]

52. Well, she was getting the COLD shoulder in Iraq

Now, Bush knew he was going to have to connect with major leaders in this Islamic stronghold, why did he put Condi Rice into this position. I have heard that myself
and I saw it in the video. I am not saying that you have to sell out, but when you
are at war with thousands of lives at stake, would you not try to frame the debate as best
that you can.

[pat_k]

46. Keep the virtuous cycle going. Do something--no matter how small--every da

Talk to a neighbor. Wear a button. Send a letter to the editor.

Call your representative. Give $10 to an impeachment candidate.. . . Something!

We don't need a movement.

We just need to move!

[AuntiBush]

51. So...

How do our leaders and/or us keep them from placing us and the entire world into a WWIII nuclear jeopardy?

This has me worried the most. That Bush/Cheney will commit their ultimate PNAC wet-dream and do this.

I do not think they represent the will of he people. I think they only represent themselves. Keys to the bunkers. The rest of us fry.

Hope I am seriously wrong and big people are working against them big-time.

[Donailin]

53. and to top it all off, there's a pedophile scandal breaking right now

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060405/ap_on_re_us/press_secretary_arrested

your dead on right. it's happening. we need to come out of our fear that they will somehow spin this all away and cheat and steal and recognize that the wheels are off the wagon.

It's time for full offensive posture.

Attack! Attack! Attack!

[wordpix]

58. the boy who spoke in Congress re: victimization gave FBI 1500 names & FBI

prosecuted two! More incompetence and chaos.

[bdamomma]

72. This is the time

for everyone to search their souls and take the bull by the horns, or these maniacs will unleash their venom against us further. They are doing it everyday by tightening the rope around our way of living, and giving our money away.

[The Wizard]

95. agreed

When the enemy is down step on his neck. When they're on the run, chase them, when they hesitate, hit them. When they surrender, make sure they're defeated. Never let up. Our enemy has no scruples. Lying, cheating, stealing and crimes against humanity are their trademarks. Our President is a nut.

[Seabiscuit]

55. Unfortunately, 30%-40% of the American public is still terminally stupid.

That's enough stupid people to populate 20 average sized States and to create a million tons of stinking verbal caca each year.

Jeez, I hate what this country has become.

[wordpix]

61. yes but with Geo. Clooney, Julia Roberts & Dixie Chicks on our side,

the sheeple are starting to wake up.

[Seabiscuit]

92. I dunno... maybe they're just making *us* feel better.

I'm beginning to think *nothing* penetrates the lizard skin of that 30%-40%.

[salin]

57. I agree...

and due to the GOP's sheer arrogance, I think the turn will not just be away from Bush (figure head), but against the party, and the ideas. Not clear yet - but beginning to take shape.... we may be in one of those odd historical eras where a political party fades... not clear is what new party would emerge to fill the void. Granted at this point this claim is very, very speculative... but the deep undercurrent of discontent due to waking out of a disconnect between rhetoric and reality out here in the heartland (IN) is something I have never witnessed before - and causes me how - in a historical sense - it might shake out over the coming years/decades.

[patcox2]

65. Yes, you see it, its a deeper thing than any one issue.

I think people are tired of fooling themselves, what you describe as the deep disconnect, people who would be favorably disposed of Bush are tired of the effort it takes to keep giving him the benefit of a doubt, those who have not yet had the "ah ha" moment in which they clearly see he is just a liar and a crook nevertheless know something is wrong and are avoiding confronting it. These are the ones who now simply avoid talking about him, even thinking about him, at all. I used to get in arguments all the time about Bush and his various crimes, but now its hard to get in an argument because noone will defend him.

I think this Bush fatigue is epidemic, and its going to snap suddenly into something else.

But its clear to me, as someone noted, that the wheels are off the bus, that they cannot recover. They cannot start another war, they cannot steal another election. By the way, noone should despair over 30% of the people continuing to support him, think of it this way, there has never, ever been a presidential election that came out 70-30. Thats an overwhelming win, and an overwhelming loss.

I am convinced the Schiavo thing was much much bigger than people realize, thats when his poll numbers fell suddenly and they never came back.

[salin]

101. I agree. That shook folks up out here in the 'heartland'

Scared the heck out of a lot of folks... the fear that all of the rhetoric that was seen as pandering to the far radical religious right... might just mean something - as in 'how far will they go'.

As much as it only received nominal attention at the time, I think the Downing Street Memos had a deeper effect - deeper in the sense that it was almost subconscience, and deeper as it led to a very very deep cynicism. After two or three months folks were no longer saying 'the intel was bad'... the question was to what degree bushco actively decieved... which morphed into (except for the true believers) an acceptance among many. Imagine that three years ago - that the public sentiment/psyche would accept the idea that bushco decieved the public to sell the war - even though the degree of how much deception and the how malignent/benign the intentions were behind that deception are still of question to many.

Then the onslaught of corruption case; the repeated - but now visible - acts of defiance/abuse of power (depending upon the vantage point) per the 'torture' amendment and signing statement, and then the NSA spying; the sheer incompetence - and seeming indifference to the Katrina and Rita catastrophes... and on and on it goes.

Where was the tipping point? Hard to say - but I would say that the big shifts - that allowed many to start opening their eyes (because it is so hard to believe that those who lead us, in this govt we were taught was such a great system, would act in ways that really was not in our benefit but at times even harming us) - was Schaivo - and I think it was with shock that many middle americans, moderates of both parties and independents began to fear... what if the Pat Robertsons of this country were really able to enact all of the theocratic laws that they pleased.

These are, indeed, very very interesting times.

[PurpleChez]

60. A wonderful, optimistic analysis of things, and not unjustifiably so....

two-thirds of the country no longer supports Chimpy. Perhaps one-third outright loathes him. So why (with the exception of the Dubai ports thing) do Rethug congressmen still treat President Trainable as if her were Moses just come down from Sinai.

[Toots]

66. Bush* is not running for re-election and 95% of incumbants get re-elected

The way the districts are gerry mandered we will not see much of a change.. Bush* is history yes but so what?

[Bethany Rockafella]

67. That's wishful thinking on your part.

And I disagree with you calling Rep. McKinney a buffoon.

[Burning Water]

68. All well and good.

I agree the public is waking up, at last.

The question is, are the Democrats? If the Dems run against Bush, they are going to lose again, because Bush isn't running.

If victory is to be achieved, this point must be firmly held in mind. Otherwise the Republicans will be able to slither away from their own responsibility.

[The Wizard]

97. Rubber Stamp Republicans

Without rubber stamp Republicans, Bush's failed policies would still be a hair brained agenda. He didn't do this by himself, and his enablers in Congress have unclean hands.

[Burning Water]

99. And if

we run against Bush, they will still be able to avoid responsibility. If that's what they want. "We're not Bush; we're not Republicans" is a losing campaign theme. IMO

And let me, at this point, put in a plug for Wes Clark.

[swag]

70. Block that metaphor!

[VaYallaDawg]

71. K&R - excellent points, and I'm hoping you're 100% correct!

[brainshrub]

73. I don't buy it.

Every six months or so a DUer posts something like this. The comments are startlingly similar each time. I think I'll start archiving these threads for future reference.

The problem isn't the Bush administration - it's the system itself. People might get mad at Bush, but they still beleive that American-style capitalism is democratic and sustainable.

Until Americans recognize that there is no viable opposition party, and they start voting for candidates that match their values, any "tipping point" is an illusion.

[PassingFair]

75. Debs Award for YOU, brainshrub!

I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it
than vote for something I don't want, and get it.
--Eugene V. Debs

[KoKo]

93. Sadly....I agree... Reading Philip's American Dynasty now....and

it's depressing what he lays out in that book. Particularly what went on in Florida in 2000. I thought I had read everything to know about Florida's stolen election...but Philip's description shows almost a "complicity" by the Dems more than just ineptitude. Our Dems would have had to be complete fools not to see what was coming and what was going on. And, Philips does try to explain it by saying the Repugs had Florida all in place and he felt it was disorganization that allowed the Dems to end up with it going to the Supremes. But, it's hard not to read his description of the characters involved and how long it took to get them into place to realize that Gore was saboutaged by his OWN.

We need to weed out many Dems before we can hope for the kind of change in politics that's needed. :-( I'm afraid that so many don't see beneath the Bush surface to know that it goes far beyond them...

[Iblis]

76. Picking up from Brainshrub's points...

It seems to be a characteristic of the left to say: "We know we're right, but the people will figure it out soon enough." "I have faith that the truth will come out in the wash." Then, the next thing you know, we are shut out of an election wondering what the hell happened. Be ready with the facts and don't be afraid to educate! Don't be satisfied with "Bush Sucks".

It doesn't look like it's happening, but I would still caution us not to get lost in schedenfreude-watching the Rovenburg crash can be hypnotizing, but we still have to get out of the way and be ready to put out the fire. I certainly hope Dean and Co. are planning to have a viable alternative ready to the GOP machine when it comes down.

Finally, the last thing to watch out for is the "cornered monkey" syndrome. To paraphrase Molly Ivins, these people don't want to govern, they want to rule. I don't put anything Bush and the people behind him and at this point I don't even trust the majority of the American people to get upset over anything the Bushies do. I still live in the Midwest, and still work in a bar where Fox News in on all the time.


L

[gasperc]

77. what sucks, just like in '30/'32 we inherit an enourmous turd from the GOP

Why the FUCK ARE WE CONSTANTLY CLEANING UP AFTER THESE BUFFOONS. We, as a nation had such an opportunity with the huge surpluses to tackle these enourmous challenges of Global Warming, health care insolvency, retirement security, TERRORISM

No we have to figure out how to "fix the Iraq" situation without letting the entire middle east implode, really battle terrorism with our now severly limited and partially cripled resources, contain the deficit without snapping the economy, etc.

I get flaming, pissed off angry when I just hear the word Republican.

[confludemocrat]

78. It's like tryin to hold in vomit, gonna come out of nose, ears & elsewhere

the repugnance of the Rethuglicans with the lies, the BS the criminality is being upchucked and rejected and is escaping from all orifices of the body politic, can't be held in and the media can't help "keep it down" anymore

[baby_mouse]

80. Potentially...

There will be no Republican president for the next 20 years. Perhaps 40.

Or perhaps Never. Never again...

:-)

[DollyM]

82. I think there should be a test . . .

Before someone can register to vote, they should have to go through a short course and take a test on "how to be an informed voter." Then every so often, they should have to retest. I think most people honestly do not know how to vote. My step dad voted for Bush (again) simply because he thought we shouldn't change Presidents when there was a war going on (apparently so did a lot of other people) but now he thinks that Bush is an idiot and regrets his vote. If we make people take a test to before they can get behind the wheel of something that can kill someone, why can't we make people take a test to ensure they know how to vote. (Might have also saved a whole lot of other deaths in a country far, far away . . . )

[Iblis]

83. I don't know about that...

What exactly makes an "informed" voter? What standard would you use? Who would be the gatekeeper making such a test? What about someone who 'fails'? They are not 'real' citizens?

This is not even taking into account people like MY father. He IS informed, but voted for Bush. Why?
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert everyone to Christianity."

He's not an idiot. He could be considered a NeoCon.

Just something to think about before we use our "tolerance" to impose some arbitrary "standard" to make someone "worthy" of voting.

L

[baby_mouse]

84. You're not the only person who's thought this...

And I'd go with it fine except how would you protect the testing system from being taken over by evil morons like the Bush cabal sometime in the future and excluding everyone because they were, for example "insufficiently informed about God"?

[arikara]

85. Sounded good until the poke at McKinney

Then I quit reading.

[worldgonekrazy]

87. Did you see her on Wolf Blitzer?

With her two lawyers? The three of them were absolutely ridiculous. Trying to throw out every red herring they could possibly think of. It was shameful.

I think the Republicans are trying to use McKinney and in that sense I want to defend her, but she is definitely not helping herself.

[arikara]

100. No, and to be honest I don't care

the repukes never turn on one of their own no matter what they do. They can steal, cheat, spy, or shoot their friends but you never hear a word against it from their side.

However if a dem steps out of the pack there are more dems attacking them than repukes. The repukes can just sit back and let the dems do their work for them. Its insane.

[TankLV]

89. I did too.

Cut it with the repuke spin (not you arikara, the OP & too many others all to eager to let loose all their pent up prejudices against Cynthia that never ceases to look for a way to break her down ever since before her election defeat).

Cynthia is a HERO for continually standing up to the repukes WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF ANY DEMS - EVER!

Can it with the bile you obviously have for Cynthia.

I saw her on CNN this morning with that racist pig of a "cop" - she ran over him.

I'd believe her in a heartbeat over their constantly changing story.

[Pastiche423]

90. Yeah

The "buffoon" part caught my eye, too. Then I stopped reading. W/the 2002 election that played out in front of our eyes, I can't believe how gullible to the rw crap some people on this board are.

What a fucking shame!

[bushmeister0]

88. If anyone can blow this golden opportunity it's the dems!

Oh, would it were true!

The Republicans may be reeling but the dems just don't "appear disorganized," they are disorganizied. If anyone can blow this golden opportunity, it's them. Immigration may be a handy distration, but you haven't seen the worst of it yet. There's still a marriage amendment to the constitution coming up and flag burning is coming up on the 4th of July!

[Initech]

91. Now that the fundies have absolute power, it's all downhill from here!

Yup - the fundies control all three branches of our government, the media, the military, and just about everything. The only thing that can happen now is that everything goes downhill.

[KAT119]

94. Still an anti-Christian vs Christian card to play e.g Delay is doing today

[liberal N proud]

96. It is going to be so much fun watching the wheels come off this bus

[McCamy Taylor]

102. It's like the scene in "Apocalypse Now" "Who's the CO?" "Arent you?"

No one is in charge.

I have been saying for years the W. needed a Nancy, someone who was devoted to HIM and who was smart. If he was married to Nancy instead of Laura, Nancy would have given Cheney the old heave-ho last summer, along with Scooter. Rove would never have been invited to join the cabinet. He would have been retained as an election adviser and sent back to Texas as soon as he was implicated in the Plame Affair. Colin Powell would still be Secretary of State, or, if he insisted upon leaving, someone of similar stature would have been recruited. Another woman would be on the SCOTUS to shore up the Republican Women's vote. We would have turned over Iraq to the UN as soon as it began to turn sour. W. would have flown into NOLA via helicopter with supplies for victims within the first 48 hours like a Hollywood movie star. He would have personally airlifted babies from rooftops.

[malaise]

103. Great post

I saw this coming since Katrina. It is over.

[zelduh]

108. What if Diebold/ES&S/Sequoia decide the 2006 Elections Instead of Voters??

Yes, the emperor is stark raving NUDE. And everyone knows it (even though die-hard Repubs simply cannot let go of their belief in his absolute infallibility, preordained by none other than God.)

But, what if none of this matters? What if, in fact, the fix is in?

We already know that the Florida and Ohio elections in 2000 and 2004 were fraudulent -- and that nothing has been done to rectify the problem. Yet every state across the country is racing to comply with the "Help America Vote (Republican) Act," by purchasing FLAWED e-VOTING MACHINES from DIEBOLD, ES&S and SEQUOIA.

Why does Bush NOT care about his poll ratings? (Is there something he knows about the upcoming 2006 elections that we do not know?)

I am very worried about my vote getting flipped to favor a GOP candidate -- without my knowledge or consent. How will I know? How will anyone know?

Zelduh

[Swamp Rat]

109. Bushler's gonna try to take us all down with him if we don't stop him NOW!

WWIII is just around the corner, if it hasn't started already. :hide:

[pretzel4gore]

110. "nothing fails like success when working for the devil"

if anyone has read Joe Conason/Gene Lyon's 'The Hunting of the President' would appreciate this maxim....the repubs are outright criminals and freaks, so obviously, and their depravity was well known long before geeb (brother of that john ellis bush, or 'jeb') wondered onto the world stage, like a forrest gump mindmeld to ted bundy....russ limbah-humbug and so many others should be exiled to Siberia forever...
fact is, too many of these gopigs know they're dead men if the dems don't make them a sweet deal.....it'll be interesting to see what happens