J.D. Hayworth (R) wants to do away with the birthright law to citizenship

[NNN0LHI]

How many of you can produce the immigration documents of your ancestors to prove that they came here legally for you to use to prove your citizenship?

I cannot produce such documents. I have never seen any. Can you?

See where the Republicans are going with this immigration crap?

Is this a can of worms that you want opened up?

Don

[ixion]

1. both my father and uncle have documented our family tree

so I think if pressed I could come up with these docs. My family has been here, in part, since the 1700's though... so f*** anyone who tries to tell me I'm not a native of this country. :grr:

[NNN0LHI]

32. Took this US citizen 16 years to get back into the US after being deported

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-04-1930s-deportees-cover_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

His father and oldest sister were farming sugar beets in the fields of Hamilton, Mont., and his mother was cooking tortillas when 6-year-old Ignacio Piña saw plainclothes authorities burst into his home.

"They came in with guns and told us to get out," recalls Piña, 81, a retired railroad worker in Bakersfield, Calif., of the 1931 raid. "They didn't let us take anything," not even a trunk that held birth certificates proving that he and his five siblings were U.S.-born citizens.

The family was thrown into a jail for 10 days before being sent by train to Mexico. Piña says he spent 16 years of "pure hell" there before acquiring papers of his Utah birth and returning to the USA.

The deportation of Piña's family tells an almost-forgotten story of a 1930s anti-immigrant campaign. Tens of thousands, and possibly more than 400,000, Mexicans and Mexican-Americans were pressured — through raids and job denials — to leave the USA during the Depression, according to a USA TODAY review of documents and interviews with historians and deportees. Many, mostly children, were U.S. citizens.

[ixion]

36. stories like that one make me very sad

the thought of people dying or having their lives disrupted to the point of default because of a 'bookkeeping issue' or 'clerical error' is unabashedly criminal. If there's a question, fine. This 'shoot first and ask questions later' policy, where simply bookkeeping matters are concerned, should simply not be tolerated, IMO.

But then, I guess we can add that to the list of stuff that ought not to be tolerated. :-(

[JDPriestly]

2. We need an international protocol on citizenship.

Every country has its own law on this, and it is possible for babies to be born and grow up in countries in which they are not citizens and to never know the country or the language of the country in which they are citizens. I suppose it is possible for children to be born without citizenship although most countries recognize the citizenship of a child born to parents who are citizens of the country. When you get down to a fourth generation child who does not know the country or language of the great-grandparents, I don't know what happens. I guess you get the diaspora.

Although they may technically have been citizens of the European countries in which they found themselves, Jewish people were not really accepted as citizens with rights in those countries for many, many generations. This placed them in jeopardy of pogroms and hate campaigns and left them defenseless. There needs to be an international agreement to prevent such situations.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. We have one

you are a citizen of a nation by either birth right or naturalization. This has been the standard under International law since at least the 19th century... but these idiots are playing with fire.

[JDPriestly]

49. What does birth right mean?

Does it mean your parents were citizens of the country in which you wish to claim citizenship, or that you are a citizen of the country in which you are born? In my experience (and I have real experience with this), it is usually the former. That means that a child can be born in Saudi Arabia of parents with Pakistani citizenship and be a citizen of Pakistan. What happens to that child's great-grandchild assuming that the child, his or her children and grandchildren remain in Saudi Arabia and never return to Pakistan? If they cannot become naturalized Saudi citizens and after so many generations they cannot return to Pakistan, they are virtually countryless. Isn't that a possible scenario as things are now developing? The same would be true of children born to guest workers in France because citizenship there is based on the citizenship of your parents, not on the location of your birth. This is one reason I am so opposed to the guest worker program.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

3. This would represent a HUGE change in the nature and definition

of what it means to be a citizen of this country.

The next step would be that only landowners would get citizenship, and a vote.

Then, slaveowners.

[converted_democrat]

7. It's a slippery slope to be sure, and I don't want this can of worms to be

opened. I too, see bad things coming from this.. My father who is an R-Winger says all the time that the "ills" of this country could be cured if only women and non-land owners were not allowed a vote.. He's worth a considerable sum, and his idea of "ills" is having to fork over money for taxes.. I know that they think along the lines you're speaking of because I've heard it myself.. I have no doubt that they would try it if they could..

[Deja Q]

10. Well, taxes pay for everything - from roads to infrastructure to military.

Make him realize that, especially the military and maybe he'll quiet down.

Unless he doesn't want protection...

[converted_democrat]

15. His issue is with taxes for social programs..

He made his money on his own, and doesn't understand why others can't do it as well.. As far as roads and military goes, he's one of those people that think privatization is the answer to everything.. I've tried talking sense into him, and on some issues he listens, but on many he won't.. He's an ass.. I can't tell you how many times he's said.. "You know XXXXXX, I'm not sure how to handle your share of the inheritance, if I give you the money that I've worked so hard for, how do I know you won't just give it away to homeless people, or one of your pet projects? I didn't make this money for you to give it away to degenerates.." Like I said, he's an ass, and almost all of his friends have similar views.. I really think I'm the only one in my immediate family that has a heart..

[FredScuttle]

35. He didn't make his money on his own unless he printed it himself

I'm curious...what line of work was your dad in? I don't know your father from Adam, but he's a "self-made man" only so far as he was able to take advantage of the many opportunities that this nation provides, from education to investment to entrepreneurship. And who is it he thinks makes sure that investors aren't swindled blind or workers have worksite protections to ensure they'll be productive contributors to our economy? The Federal Government, that's who.

And if my parent dared dangle an inheritance based on my political views, I'd tell them to stick their money up their asses and good luck on their own in their old age. Nothing is worth compromising your values.

on edit: lest I come off being presumptious, I sympathize with your plight...I have one formerly ultra-conservative parent who is starting to see the light...

[converted_democrat]

45. He owns a bunch of construction/ farm implement dealerships, and

he unloaded a bunch of "farmland" on the edge of a city to developers for a mall.. He held on to the adjoining properties knowing that restaurants and other businesses would want to build next to the mall, and held out for maximum money.. As the city has expanded, if businesses wanted to build, they had to buy the property from my father to do it.. He unloaded the last of it a year or two ago.. Now he's in venture capital..

I have little contact with my mom and dad.. I moved 3 states away for a decent buffer, and the only time I see them is when they "pop in" unannounced.. (It drives them crazy that they can't control me.)I couldn't stand them growing up.. I refused to play the role they wanted me to play.. I hated the pretense, the lies, and the fake "Christian" attitude.. (Oh yea, did I mention they're fundies too?) It drove me nuts.. I have 2 sisters and they played by the rules, and they have everything they could want, and more.. I gave up a lot to be me, but I like who I am, and I can look myself in the mirror..

[FredScuttle]

52. That's the most important thing

Be true to thine own self and you'll have a life richer than one any material goods could give you.

Sounds like you turned out right...congrats!

[C_U_L8R]

4. Hayworth is spewing familiar rhetoric

Birthright of the Master Race and the Inferiority of the Auslanders.

I hate Nazis like Hayworth. Yechhhh.

[cynatnite]

6. My father and his mother weren't legal...

when they came here in the 50's.

It'll be interesting to see how they intend to enforce it.

[Deja Q]

8. So where will we all be deported to then?

:D

[electron_blue]

41. Send different parts of me to Ireland, Scotland, England, France, and

leave part of me in southern Appalachia, LOL.

No immigration papers for us, just tons of birth certificates going back a few centuries.

And J.D., who is going to process all this paperwork? Halliburton?

[Progressive4Life]

42. Good question.

I call myself a European mutt. I have ancestros from France, Germany, Malta, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and Russia. Maybe they'll go by my surname, which would send me to France?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

9. I cannot believe how the people of his district voted for this man. He

comes off as a slimy snake oil hustler.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

12. Where's this guy from?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. Arizona.

[blondeatlast]

47. Southeastern Maricopa County of Arizona.

His district encompasses Scottsdale, Mesa and Apache Juction and beyond, all very strong retirement communities.

Very, very conservative area even though it also includes part of Tempe (home of ASU).

DU's own dorktv ran against him in '04 and actually made a respectable showing considering she had virtually no help whatsoever (no money, no volunteers, virtually no support at all) from the state Democrats.

Considering her showing, he may be vulnerable, although if you look only at the numbers you wouldn't think so. The fact that dorktv got even 10,000 votes is remarkable, it really is.

[DanCa]

11. Would this imply to Governors who were Terminators?

The Republicans are officially insane. I have no use for any of them.

[hobbit709]

13. F*ck him and the horse he rode in on

My father comes from an old Virginia family that's been here 300 years. my mother was born in Austria and so was I. I am an American citizen 'by birth"-not the same as native born- which means that I can't run for president-not that anyone in their right mind wants that job. Because the embassy in Vienna lost the original paperwork at the time I actually have a letter from the State Department signed by Dean rusk stating that they have no record of me and that I must have entered the country illegally-neat trick since I got here on a military transport in 1959. Later they found the records moldering in the basement in Vienna. I also served my country from 1970-73, so screw Hayworth and his ideas. What's he done for his country except be an ass?

[tsuki]

27. I was told you can be president. Report of an American birth

abroad is the same as native born. Three candidates of recent history, Goldwater, Romney & John McCain were born of US parents outside the US.

[hobbit709]

28. It only counts

if you born in US territory. but i'm not crazy enough to want the job anyway. I'm holding out for God-Emperor OF The Universe.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. Right, like on U.S. Embassy territory, military base etc.

[tsuki]

31. Last time I looked, Panama was not US territory, neither was Mexico.

Actually, the law has never been formally challenged. But with all the births overseas because of military deployment, it is not likely to be.

[kskiska]

14. Will this be retroactive?

My father's parents came from Hungary in the early 1900s, had ten children, and never became American citizens, only because no family member ever got around to doing the paperwork. My grandfather never spoke English, and my grandmother didn't speak it very well. If this ever becomes law, and if it's retroactive, it would mean that my father and his brothers and sisters were never U.S. citizens.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. Any links to this?

[NNN0LHI]

18. Here are some

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=tus&q=J.D.+Hayworth%2Bbirthright+law+to+citizenship&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web

[converted_democrat]

26. Here's a link..

I googled for it, but almost all of the sites that have the info are R-wing sites.. I'm not sure if this is a government site or what.. It has a .gov on the end of it.. This is the only one that I could find in the first couple pages of the search that wasn't a R- wing site.. (I don't think it is anyway..)

Snip-

"Eighty-one House members, including Hayworth and Chico Republican Wally Herger, back a bill that would deny citizenship to the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants. An estimated 200,000 such children are born each year and are automatically recognized as American citizens. This is rooted in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, adopted in 1868."

http://www.house.gov/nunes/press/2005/newsclips/dec/121105BorderSecurity.htm

[madrchsod]

17. my mom`s side came over

from germany before there was a united states of america and my dad`s side came thru ellis island in the 1870`s so i guess my family and i are ok. wait a minute my mom`s side kin was one of the leaders in the whiskey rebellion...shit maybe i could be classified as a "person of interest"

[etherealtruth]

19. I know, for a fact ...

My paternal grandmother was an illegal.

[genie_weenie]

20. This would be great!

It would allow me to split off and declare my own state of one, The Grand Duchy of Genoxania!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

22. OK, here's a link. Dude is from Arizona.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0929hayworth-immigration29.html

Hayworth targets migrants with immigration bill
Measure would reduce visas for Mexicans

Billy House and Susan Carroll
The Arizona Republic
Sept. 29, 2005 12:00 AM

WASHINGTON - Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., plans to introduce today a sweeping immigration enforcement bill that would create a new national Social Security card, crack down on employers who hired undocumented workers and bring a moratorium on immigrant visas for Mexican citizens.

...

It includes provisions that historically have proved controversial, such as putting the military on the border, ending automatic citizenship for babies born on U.S. soil and authorizing an estimated 700,000 state and local law enforcement officers to enforce immigration law.

...

Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Immigration Studies, a think tank that favors stricter immigration controls, said the bill is "the right approach because it focuses on enforcement first."

"I don't mean to be a mouthpiece for the bill, but it really does summarize the approach we need to take, which is to regain control of the border and then talk about whether we need an amnesty or guest-worker program," he said.
...

Hmmm... I wonder how long the "Center for Immigration Studies" has existed, who funds it, and what other jobs Mark Krikorian has held.


On Edit: If birth on U.S. soil doesn't cut it any longer, I wonder what criteria WOULD be used for U.S. citizenship, hmmm?

[MountainLaurel]

34. A little about CIS

It's the "research" arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). Both groups share funding sources, staff, etc., with two avowed white supremacist groups: American Patrol and Concerned Conservative Citizens. These groups were behind the recent law in Arizona that prohibits undocumented immigrants from receiving public services, from an ambulance to the public library. When you called the "information hotline" of proponents of the law, you got the FAIR offices.

Additionally, both FAIR and CIS are considered to be hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center. You can find additional information about them on the SPLC Web site:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=72

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

46. Thanks for this info, MountainLaurel.

[MountainLaurel]

57. De nada

My husband works on immigration issues and has done a lot of research into these groups. The fact that the media considers them a legitimate information source causes a lot of raised blood pressure in our household.

:hi:

[mondo joe]

23. Can of worms? Only if some law would make it retroactive.

I don't suppose that's the plan, however.

[NNN0LHI]

25. The Jews in Germany thought everything was going to be hunky dory too

For a while.

Don

[mondo joe]

29. Two things: 1. That's not what the Jews thought, as my step grandfather

has explained to me his escape from Germany and the loss of his family; 2. The OP asked whether his proposed law opens a can of worms, which I tried to answer - not whether some other law might come up later.

Needless to say, whether this law is enacted or not, some other law can be enacted later.

[mitchum]

24. Hayworth's ancestors were native wild pigs...

so I guess he is safe

[electron_blue]

43. J.D. Havalina?

[Hubert Flottz]

33. JD"Hogg" Hayworth's family tree ...

[SoCalDem]

38. Here's Mom

and Grandpa

[Hubert Flottz]

54. Hoghead Hayworthless does really look like a swine in the face.

The ham headed idiot squeals just like a swine too! Just a loud noise that never makes any sense whatever! Sometimes I think piggy Ann Coulter has a long lost brother!

[Hubert Flottz]

55. The Real JD"Hogg Hayworthless!

(without the use of his congressional make-up kit)

[SoCalDem]

37. I can, but lots probably could not.

Older people whose records were destroyed in WAR, might have difficulty. Most people 60 and under have well-documented births, and plenty of paper backing them up:)

[Neil Lisst]

39. he has presidential ambitions, but he's nuts

[Snotcicles]

40. I would like to see Sasquatch use J.D.Hayworth's head for a rectal scrape.

[johnaries]

44. Sounds Familiar. The Reich Citizenship Law of 1935:

Article 1
Section 1
A German subject is one who is a member of the protective union of the German Reich and is bound to it by special obligations. . . .
Section 2
1. A Reich citizen is that subject who is of German or related blood only and who through his behavior demonstrates that he is ready and able to serve faithfully the German people and Reich.
2. The right to citizenship of the Reich is acquired by the grant of citizenship papers.
3. A citizen of the Reich is the sole bearer of full political rights as provided by the law.

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob14.html

[WillyT]

48. OK... Then How Did Hayworth Become An American Citizen ???

Oh... he means from now on...

What a putz!

:puke:

[suffragette]

50. Reminds me of what was done to the Kumeyaay/Diegueno/Kumiai tribe

I've posted some of this before, but it seems pertinent here, so reposting.


Many years ago, I read an excellent book called "The Autobiography of Delfino Cuero."
Delfino was a member of the Kumeyaay/Diegueno/Kumiai tribe. Why so many names? Delfino was a member of one of the tribes that lived in the border region and which were split by the border. Delfino describes how some of the tribe ended up on one side and were now Americans (though with no documents since many had no US birth certificates) and how others were now Mexican. She also notes how members of the tribe who went to visit relatives in Mexico were not allowed back in the US because of the lack of documents. I highly recommend this book to anyone who hasn't read it.

So, past history, right? Not really.

From http://www.sandiego.edu/lrc/broaderborders/indigenous.html
Indigenous Peoples on the Border

Indigenous peoples who have been on the North American continent much longer than Mexico, the United States of America and Canada are adversely affected by these countries’ international boundaries.

The Jay Treaty and the Treaty of Ghent protect the right of tribes whose lands are bisected by U.S.-Canadian border to cross between the two countries. The same protection was not explicitly guaranteed to tribes divided by the U.S.-Mexican border. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo separated the Kumeyaay Indians of California from the Kumiai of Baja California. The Gadsden Purchase separated Tohono O'odham and other tribes in Arizona from their relatives in Sonora, Mexico.

For many years, indigenous peoples crossed easily between Mexico and the United States, because they were known to border agents and secured inexpensive border crossing cards. Growing restrictions on immigration to the United States over the last decades have made it more difficult for tribes to maintain cross-border ties. Immigration and customs agents often question the border crossings of tribal members, who may lack the documents and finances necessary for passports and visas.

The Texas Band of Kickapoo Act of 1983 was passed to allow the Kickapoo to cross freely between Texas and Mexico, where they reside. In recent years, the Tohono O’odham, the Cocopah, and the Yaqui people and the Kumeyaay in California have lobbied to secure their rights to travel across their ancestral lands.

Here's a link to another good article on the situation, titled "Native Communities of the Borderlands: An Introduction" :
http://americas.irc-online.org/borderlines/1999/bl62/bl62oview_body.html



Ironic, isn't it? Who are the immigrants here?

[Jose Diablo]

51. The earliest recorded history is on a land grant dated to the 1730's

for my anscestors, but other than birth records, for me there is no citizenship records, unless you count military discharge records.

I imagine this could be applied to anyone, anytime. Denying citizenship based on lack of records?

These guys are losing it. The cheese has slid-off the cracker

[mduffy31]

53. I can't

...but I am a white guy so I am okay in JD's mind. :sarcasm: :eyes:

[KitchenWitch]

56. How does that work for the indiginous peoples

who pre-existed the northern Europeans by like thousands of years.

[lonestarnot]

58. I think they stapled a portion of his brain to his stomach in the surgery

that we paid for, and he's still not giving any tribal monies back worked through Abramoff.

[ProfessorGAC]

59. Believe It Or Not, I Have Ours!

I know where you're going with this Don. I just happen to one of the few lineage geeks that has my families documents.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

60. Stupid Multiposts

Still Happening!

[ProfessorGAC]

61. Darn It

..