TYT: Is Obama Covering For Bush? If So, Why?

[ihavenobias]

Run time: 05:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXXGEZuFfeI   Posted on YouTube: April 16, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: April 16, 2009 By DU Member: ihavenobias Views on DU: 1867

 

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[pleah]

1. K&R Good points, but they have been released now.

They won't prosecuted the CIA agents who carried out the torture. We will wait to see if anyone is actually held accountable for these crimes.

[ihavenobias]

2. Cenk made a great point about how they'll blame Obama anyway.

I think that's part of why I'm so torn and frustrated overall. I'm really happy with him in some respects (stem cells, high speed rail today, reaching out to other countries, etc.). But the economic team and some of the secrecy/wiretapping stuff, it just kills me.

Even politically speaking, the right wing is all over our president, saying he's a socialist, communist, fascist, dictator, radical leftist, etc. I hate the fact that according to most respected economists, he's going in the wrong direction on the economy, and if nothing else it's CLEARLY not a progressive direction (it reminds me of the Clinton-esque "centrist" stuff, i.e. NAFTA, Telecom Act of 1996, passing Gramm's bill, etc.).

I feel like it's a lose-lose. If Obama is going to be 'smeared' as a radical leftist, couldn't we at least get some "radical" progressive policies? If people are worried about politics, why not use the temporary political capital and high approval ratings to *actually* push for effective progressive programs that might be considered "socialist" to some? I know I'm rambling but it's my biggest concern, that we'll get the worst of both worlds with regard to the economy.

[ejbr]

4. My thoughts exactly

:thumbsup:

[ihavenobias]

7. I should add one more point.

Adding on to my original comment, my other big fear is that this "centrist" approach (the same one that led us into this economic crisis) will fail, and that the right will pounce all over it to get back into power and push FURTHER toward massive tax cuts for the rich, deregulation and income inequality.

All the while they'll blame the (pick one) socialist/communist/fascist policies of the left for why our economy failed, and a LOT of uninformed moderates will eat it up and vote Republican. In other words, it could be disastrous for the country AND for the party.

Unfortunately a lot of Dems are terrified of being labeled liberal or socialist or whatever, so they push for corporatism, er, I mean centrism. They don't seem to get the fact that the right (for all their faults) does a brilliant job of painting even the most moderate Dems as loony leftists.

[glinda]

9. I don't think it has anything to do with centrism. It has to do with the CIA

having opposition to the initial release of the papers. They basically have said "if you want us to work with you, you must not release some info". I do not want Obama thrown under the bus or more in danger. Let it go. Trust him.

[ihavenobias]

10. I was referring to Dems in general and on general issues.

Not specifically this issue. But I have to say, I don't think that "let it go" and "trust him" are ever compelling arguments. God knows how you and I would react had a right winger made that argument when Bush was in charge.

:)

[glinda]

11. agree but I feel that people are only reacting out of anger at Bush and not looking at the possible

bigger implications.

[ihavenobias]

14. Nah, it's not about anger with Bush.

Particularly not with the economy. If anything I'm more angry with Bill Clinton on that front. And I have to defer to the top respected economists on the issue now, not just when Republicans are in control.

Like I said, I have mixed feelings. My opinion is that it's dishonest to not have mixed feelings. I don't see how it's possible (if someone attempts even the slightest bit of objectivity) to think everything is just fine, just give it time. Like most things in life, *some* things are just fine and need time, but others are not.

Yes, it's possible and likely that some of these concerns will change and be proven to be wrong or exaggerated given time, but not ALL things. And of course it's also possible that downplayed issues might turn out negatively. Again, it'll likely be a combination of the two.

[ihavenobias]

17. One more thing.

I thought Colbert was great here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/colbert-torches-obama-on_n_187664.html

[glinda]

19. Saw that last night but didn't Bush get rid of Habeas?

[ihavenobias]

20. Yes...

From the :

"While he only dedicated the first two minutes of his show to the issue, Stephen Colbert's mini-segment on President Barack Obama's decision to preserve the habeas corpus-free detainee policy at Bagram Air Force Base in Afghanistan was a brutal, bitter, and important piece of comedy.

Setting up his bit to appear as if the faux-conservative Colbert was going to pull a Jonah Goldbergian bit of praise for greenlighting the Somali pirate sniper solution, Colbert instead veered, giving major props to Obama's decision to appeal the recent court decision that granted habeas corpus rights to Bagram detainees. "He's just following the long-standing principle of American justice: guilty until proven forgotten about."

"It's essentially the same stance taken by George Bush," Colbert added, "With one important difference: Obama makes the kids like it." Sad because it's funny because it's true."

[The Wielding Truth]

12. That's what I'm getting,too.

[ihavenobias]

16. Consider this climate change analogy I just came up with.

I'm not a climatologist, so I have no real expertise in evaluating claims made by them and other scientists regarding climate change. Because of that I defer to the consensus of the experts in that field. I think that the vast majority of people who think climate change is a threat are the same way.

With regard to the Obama Administration plan to fix the economy, once again I'm not an expert, not an economist. So I'm left to defer to the consensus of the top experts on the issue. In that context I don't see how waiting to see what happens makes sense, just like it doesn't make sense with climate change.

Sure, we can continue doing what we're doing against the advice of the experts and hope and wait and see that they turn out to be wrong. And of course there is a group of people (often with vested interests) who disagree (in this case the vested interests are with Geithner, Summers, Wall Street, etc. rather than Big Oil, etc.).

[CherylK]

22. Well said!!!

:yourock:

[FiveGoodMen]

18. "a lot of Dems are terrified of being labeled"

We desperately need leaders who know what they think needs to be done and are willing to risk getting a different job in a couple of years -- usually not too hard after you've been in Congress -- rather than do the wrong thing for the wrong reason.

I'm not a fan of enforced term limits -- except for the White House, where SO much power is concentrated in one office -- but we do need politicians whose only career plan isn't to hold onto their office for the rest of their days.

[pleah]

6. I hear ya.

:thumbsup:

[biopowertoday]

13. I am torn and frustrated also............

in relation to the issues you bring up.


I would like to see his political cap. get spent on health care--single payer. Go BOLD.

[Romis]

25. Same here

http://freespeech.vo.llnwd.net/o25/members/20090415_Wed_Alex.wmv?e=1239927065&h=1ab95cc63ee77fe663d964d522cf57b9

[ejbr]

3. It's shit like this

that makes me go back and forth on my pleasure with Obama's performance. Better than a repig? Sure, but why do we have to compromise OUR principles because he is better than fuckin' filth?

[ihavenobias]

5. I can already hear a response to your comment.

Someone will say something about compromise and the perfect being the enemy of the good, etc. And I really do understand that perspective.

At the same time it seems that there is compromise *unnecessarily*, in the context of the current (incredibly important) economic situation and the high approval ratings and public support. And yes, the Congressional majority.

See my comment above for more details.

[20score]

8. Great point. Especially liked the last one as it not as obvious, but just as true.

K&R

[bagrman]

15. Don't fuck with the Company and we'll let you stay healthy, or someone you love.

google Converstations with the crow. a little insight on who or what is running this country.

[MedfordTim]

21. Answer is Yes and I don't have an effin' clue why

All I know is the rest of my heart has been left shredded, along with the Constitution.

Fucking spies. Fucking secrecy.

Fucking shame on all of us....

[ihavenobias]

26. Finally, an optimist weighs in.

;)

[edc]

23. This is pure bullshit.

We were just obeying orders has been replaced with we were just following legal opinions. It didn't work at Nuremberg and it shouldn't work here. It wouldn't work for me in my profession and I doubt it would work for you. Why should it work for people who commit acts they have been raised to consider immoral and have been trained to know are illegal simply because a political hack lawyer says it's OK or a superior orders it anyway?

[OhioChick]

24. K&R

:kick:

[autorank]

27. There's just one party, The Money Parrty

Either you're in or you're out. Got to have a truck load of that doe ray me to qualify.

We don't so nobody covers for us.

Excellente Senor!

[matthewf]

28. k&r