TYT: If Torture Works, Why Did We Waterboard Someone 183 Times?

[ihavenobias]

Run time: 06:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu4ZPdrRrsg   Posted on YouTube: April 21, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: April 21, 2009 By DU Member: ihavenobias Views on DU: 1168

 

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[OmahaBlueDog]

1. It's like potato chips...you can't just stop with one?

[rcrush]

2. Waterboarding is only effective if you do it 200 times.

Otherwise you are just wasting your time.

[paparush]

3. Is that the Cheney Equation?

if (torture >= 200)
   information++;

[rcrush]

4. Add some ass rape.

[paparush]

14. Revised

if((torture>=200)&&(assrape!=0))
     information++;

[xiamiam]

5. good question..phrased properly to reveal the sadistic nature which must be addressed..nt

[pleah]

6. I disagree, "just following orders" in not a defense.

Remember the Nuremberg trials?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials


They should all be prosecuted.

[ihavenobias]

7. I know.

But like Cenk, I care about 1,000 times more about the people who GAVE the orders to begin with. I'm not worried about the henchmen of the super villain, I'm worried about the super villain!

:)

[DirtyDawg]

8. It's like I posted on this somewhere else...

....the guy just ran out of crap he could tell them in the hope that they would stop. After all even the most fertile imagination gets to the point that says it doesn't matter how much, or what, I tell them they're gonna keep it up.

On the other hand maybe they just ran out of days so that the count had to pick up the next month.

Point is we've become a bunch of sadistic bastards - at least those that vote Republican.

[JDPriestly]

9. I posted this in response to the video of Obama's announcement on this today.

So, another Warren Commission, another Ford pardon, another Iran-Contra "wasn't in the loop defense," another 9/11 Commission -- whitewash after whitewash. Why doesn't everybody just get high or drunk or whatever and feel good about the hit-and-run we just caused.

No, President Obama. It doesn't work this way. You don't just swallow a Vicodin, brush your teeth and go to bed and hope your abscessed tooth will feel better in the morning. Sooner or later, you have to go to the dentist and get a root canal and let the puss and the blood and that nasty nerve go. Only then can you go forward in life.

If you don't get rid of that abscessed tooth, if you just let it rot your gums out, you will not only lose the tooth, but you can seriously damage your heart in some circumstances.

We have been living with an abscessed tooth since the Kennedy Assassination. And we just can't face the fact that we either get rid of the abscess or it kills us. It is time to get rid of the abscess which is that little group of powerful, soulless, immoral right-wingers who manage to worm their ways into high positions in government.

Assassination is a crime. Trading arms with Iran was a crime (Iran-Contra). Wiretapping in violation of FISA was a crime. Torture is a crime -- and a violation of international law.

Why don't we just appoint a commission to investigate crimes such as drug use and sales? Why send people addicted to drugs to prison if people addicted to cruelty are free to pontificate on TV? Why send people to prison for stealing or vandalizing property when top dogs are not imprisoned for torturing (people who have not been found guilty of any crime, people who were detained due to mistaken identity, one person who may have died in the course of the torture).

No, President Obama. This is not good enough. This is not acceptable. With this "compromise," you are taking the human race back to the pre-Geneva Convention era. We don't want to go back there. We should be bringing the terrorists up into the post-Geneva Convention era, not joining them in their barbarism.

[ihavenobias]

10. I can't wait to share this with my GF.

As we speak she's taking the practical exam for her dental hygiene certification!

[JDPriestly]

15. Nothing worse than an abscessed tooth when it comes to pain.

[Seldona]

13. I am shocked at the amount of people that just want to 'look ahead.'

Even in our own party. Imo this goes beyond military and intelligence complicity. There are some very powerful interests that want nothing to do with prosecutions because of what could come out. I have a feeling we would all be very surprised at just whom those interests represent.

It is beyond disheartening to me.

[ro1942]

11. everyone

how can you not prosecute everyone. the u.s.a. thinks it's so special and the rest of the world can see it. time to practice what we preach.

[damntexdem]

12. Maybe it doesn't work until the 183rd time in a month.

And just imagine the research that would have established that dosage.

[Joanne98]

16. There goes the "ticking time bomb" theory.

It done went off by now!

[DearAbby]

17. Well maybe

on the 124th session of water boarding Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he confessed he was the reincarnation of Ethel Merman, and even broke out in song "Everything is coming up Roses!"

I don't mean to belittle this, but it seems to me the technique doesn't work if you have to use it 6 times a day, total of 183 times, in one month's time period. The person being tortured will say anything to make it stop.

[matthewf]

18. k&r

[Turborama]

19. "Is There a Nexus between Torture and Radicalization?"

(I read this a while ago and thought it might be an appropriate question to add to this discourse)

Publication: Terrorism Monitor Volume: 6 Issue: 13June 26, 2008 03:58 PM Age: 299 days

By: Chris Zambelis

=snip=

There is ample evidence that a number of prominent militants—including al-Qaeda deputy commander Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri and the late al-Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi—endured systematic torture at the hands of the Egyptian and Jordanian authorities, respectively (see Terrorism Monitor, May 4, 2006). Many observers believe that their turn toward extreme radicalism represented as much an attempt to exact revenge against their tormentors and, by extension, the United States, as it was about fulfilling an ideology. Those who knew Zawahiri and can relate to his experience believe that his behavior today is greatly influenced by his pursuit of personal redemption to compensate for divulging information about his associates after breaking down amid brutal torture sessions during his imprisonment in the early 1980s <3>. For radical Islamists and their sympathizers, U.S. economic, military, and diplomatic support for regimes that engage in this kind of activity against their own citizens vindicates al-Qaeda’s claims of the existence of a U.S.-led plot to attack Muslims and undermine Islam. In al-Qaeda’s view, these circumstances require that Muslims organize and take up arms in self-defense against the United States and its allies in the region.

Torture in Extremist Discourse


Radical Islamist literature and discourse is replete with references to torture. The infamous al-Qaeda training manual “Military Studies in the Jihad against the Tyrants,” more commonly referred to as the “Manchester Document,” includes references to the oppression and torture endured by Muslims at the hands of “apostate” rulers whose prisons are “equipped with the most modern torture devices” <4>. Al-Zawahiri’s public statements often contain references to torture by the Egyptian regime and others in the region. In addressing the nature of U.S.-Egyptian relations during a May 2007 statement, Zawahiri criticizes what he labels “American hypocrisy, which calls for democracy even as it considers Hosni Mubarak to be one of its closest friends, and which sends detainees to be tortured in Egypt, exports tools of torture to Egypt and spends millions to support the security organs and their executioners in Egypt, even as the American State Department, in its annual report on human rights, criticizes the Egyptian government because it tortures detainees!” <5>

=snip=

There's a good list for further reading which includes a link to this paper, http://www.zackvision.com/weblog/2009/04/taxi-to-the-dark-side.html8">here.