Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Cokie Roberts is Glad Torture Tapes Were Destroyed

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Political Videos Donate to DU
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:30 PM
Original message
Cokie Roberts is Glad Torture Tapes Were Destroyed
 
Run time: 00:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U-0D41gb4k
 
Posted on YouTube: April 19, 2009
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: April 21, 2009
By DU Member: ProfessorPlum
Views on DU: 2141
 
We do "great work", "all around the world".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Then may the god who doesn't exist spring to life and create the hell that doesn't exist
so she can be put there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. This particular edition of This Week really was one for the ages.
Poor George Will was almost lost amongst the other idiocy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Don't you have a cocktail party to get to Cokie?
The traffic around DuPont circle can be awful, you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. I actually agree with her. no rumors or memo's are as
volitile as recording, either video or audio. I surely don't want tapes of any kind to be distributed all over the net!

Stories of torture have been circulating for a very long time, but NOTHING did as much damage to the US as the Abu-Graib tapes did!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Gee. Do you suppose there's a simple solution for that problem?
Don't torture!

Anything else is tantamount to the little kid who covers her eyes and says "You can't see me!"

Making the evidence go away isn't the same as eliminating the problem. In fact, it's almost an invitation to let the problem continue!
Only when we confront our problems and admit to our transgressions do we have any hope of truly "moving on."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Well said. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jacksmind Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. You are hearing what you want to hear
Do you really think she was advocating torture??? There are two worlds she's distinguishing:

1) Torture occurred, and videos were out there to fan the fires of anti-Americanism/terrorism.
2) Torture occurred, and there were no videos.

Clearly, #1 is preferable insofar as extremism is concerned. (Sure you have less ammo to prosecute, blah, blah, blah.) She was talking about the existence of videos out there for recruiting purposes. I'm pretty sure that she is not in favor of torture, but since it did occur, it's best to not have videos out there on extremist websites.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. How about...
The existence of those videos as concrete evidence of the wrongs we have done so that we never even think of doing it again. Or how about their existence taking away the stupid 24 BS that makes us think torture is a necessary evil and removing the glamour of the show from it, revealing it for the dirty horrible third world bullshit that it really is.


The hell with her petty rationalizations, until people see what we have done most of this country really won't have a clue as to the reality of waht torture is and what it looks like.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jacksmind Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. wow you don't understand logic, do you?
1) YES, you can use these videos to get people to understand torture better.
2) YES, you can use them to prosecute.
3) YES, she could EVEN concede that memos and videos are equivalent as far as flaming the fires of American hate. (Which I highly doubt, and I'm sure I can start googling for extremist websites to prove that point, but whatever, let's make that assumption.)

She can concede EVERY SINGLE POINT that you have made, and still say that it's a BAD thing that those that hate America don't have these VIDEOS. Hmm maybe I should try deductive logic:

P1: All things equal (points 1,2,3, above), IF terrorists have videos of American torture it's a bad thing.
HP2 (Hypothetical Premise 2): Terrorists have videos of American torture
_______
C: It's a bad thing.

This is all she's saying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Cokie is kooky.
She has long been an establishment drone for a long time and a rah-rah war cheerleader to boot.

I would also call false premise on your follow up argument as I think that it ignores the obvious 'Bad Thing' which would be that torture occurred in the first place. Bad publicity and anger is just a distant consequence of the torture. To look at the evidence as something that is, in itself, damaging outside of the context of the crime is part of the kind of thinking that got us into this problem in the first place and also a part of the legacy of bush.

Quite frankly I wouldn't believe half of the shit she says anyways.

example:

"I am, I will just confess to you, a total sucker for the guys who stand up with all the ribbons on and stuff, and they say it's true and I'm ready to believe it. We had General Shelton on the show the last day he was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and I couldn't lift that jacket with all the ribbons and medals. And so when they say stuff, I tend to believe it."

ABC News "This Week" 2001

When you give a quote like that you give up being able to credibly call yourself a journalist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jacksmind Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. wow
Your opinions of her notwithstanding, she is pointing out the simple fact that it's good that extremist groups don't have more hate to fan the fires. And you have a TREMENDOUS uphill battle if you're going to show that this simple recognition is what got us into this mess in the first place. I mean I'm a very open-minded, scientifically driven person that understands how complex causation can be, but I can't even begin to fathom how this is even possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. So...
So you assume that denial, the desire for increased secrecy, and a comfort in such matters not being disclosed has no relation at all to the carrying out of such deeds?

Do you really think the previous administration wanted us all to know about what they were responsible for with regards to the memos? Do you think when people take secret action and use extraordinary rendition they do so with the intention of having fair and open trials? This is not merely an exercise in absolute a-b causation. This is about the tenor and tone of the fear that was multiplied by executive power and their desire to keep it so.

Do you really think justice can be served or reform to be possible while we keep things as secret as possible? Do you think it good that a good portion of voters will live in denial forever about what we as a nation did because all we have as evidence of these wrong doings are memos that are mystified before their eyes? Confounded to the point where many will say they hardly happened at all and that we have a right wing great Wurlitzer that fires cannonballs of cacophony from coast to coast clamoring to the worse devils of ignorance and fear. Counting on illiteracy and gambling on stupidity and blindness to assure their audiences and rewrite history?

Without the hope for ignorance and the desire for secrecy none of these things could have occurred as they did and I don't care how many straw men you line up for execution, her statements were wrong. As wrong as I have come to expect from this absurd little daughter of privilege, consummate insider, and mockingbird maven of malarkey and murky mindlessness.

The words of Victor Hugo, on speaking of the execution of John Brown, ring as true in this matter as they did in that terrible killing. "You preserve your shame but you kill your glory." Hugo spoke of the glory of democracy and liberty and how we, in defending slavery against those who would take up arms against was to betray the very ideals of the nation. I speak of the glory of our nation our ability to look into the lens of history and face it boldly and declare aloud that we can do better than this. But to do this you cannot merely say aloud Fiat Justitia and expect all to be right. There are the difficult middle steps between stating the problem and claiming right to the healing of such grievous wounds.

And if this crime, these vial tortures pass without punishment and without blame then what next? If it takes video footage to assure us of what happened and to insure us that those that carried out these deeds and those that guided them with memo and policy directive and even executive decree are punished and possibly protect and forewarn us so this thing cannot happen again than, despite the hearts it may aflame abroad, is it not worth it?

But if we stand and do nothing and torture is allowed to have been passed over what is the defense against it happening again? Shall we count on the Cokie Roberts to defend our rights and the constitution? Will she step to the fore for freedom and due process and protection from the unreasonable, and the cruel and unusual?

And I do not think hate requires much fuel for it to burn. It has been with us for all of human history. To somehow expect that the destruction of evidence be fortunate it preventing radical Islam from despising us more is the height of idiocy. There is hate enough to fill every bombed out crater in Baghdad and certainly each of these deep wounds is a reservoir of fuel for their anger and frustration and rage as volatile as the oil we pump from there and as toxic as the uranium dust we have scattered there. No, with what we have done in these nations it is unlikely our actions will be forgotten in ten generations or more if we continue down the path we have set ourselves on.

If we offer no justice for ourselves, our victims and to the world where then will they seek justice? Surely those luckless enough to be tortured but lucky enough to be released will want some redress and if not in court then where? Whether to save or damn those that suffered unjustly in those torture factories should it not be ourselves that is also saved? Should we not be saved or avenged for the damage done to our own constitution?

I am sorry you don't understand this but protection from difficult, problematic, and damning information is not a blessing of liberty, it is the cold comfort of fascism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Right because without pictures no one will get the idea of how disgusting
the treatment was?

That is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and saying if you don't see something it doesn't exist. It's not the tapes that fan the fires of anti-Americanism and/or terrorism it's the TORTURE that fans it. Disposing of the tapes is merely removing evidence which could be used to prosecute the sons of bitches that did this. Last I heard destroying evidence of wrong doing didn't actually remove the wrong doing.

Regards
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well... as much as I agree
This is about the larger percentage of the US population that just doesnt get that what we have been doing is torture and what torture looks like. Most people on this board get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NowHearThis Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Cokie must have forgotten what happened to her father. EOM
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Or perhaps she remembers a little too well. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. We do "great work" Not during 8 yrs of Republicans Bush/Cheney -They tortured Cokie so let's sweep
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 03:19 PM by GreenTea
it all under the rug...because after all, the CIA was helping the Republicans imperialist corporations make money & steal resources from other countries, creating more justifiably angry enemies of our country?

But then, that's what Cheney and the boys want, create more terrorist, sell them American weapons for never ending war...so the corporate fascist can steal even more!

Our country used to lead & win people of other lands over by example, but not when the greedy republicans are in power, it's much more profitable to have wars and give our tax dollars to military corporations to steal oil for those same corporations instead of using our tax dollars for universal health care, et al back home.

Cokie you elitist pig!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. She's a beltway tool. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. because of folks like COkie, this country is turning to shit
and getting worse dailyu.... just deny reality and move along. Nothing wrong will happen if we just ignore the problem. Every motherfucking republican and mainstream dem needs an AA meeting, just for being out of touch with reality. Problems get worse when you ignore them, you bunch of fascist assholes!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kookie Roberts
Too bad she and Beck couldn't do a daily hour together. :dunce::dunce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Cokie shows why she's such a lousy journalist
The US government was guilty of war crimes, and she didn't want to know. She didn't think we should find out.

But the predecessor of the war criminal-in-chief got a blow job, and that was a constitutional crisis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yes, if we close our eyes and ignore them...
then these things didn't happen. What a platitude. We do good, so we should be allowed to torture. Makes perfect non-sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Now there's a real circle jerk. Or circle of jerks.
Noonan, Will, Steph, Kookie, and I can't see the last guy.

Each and every one of them are irrelevant to anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ah, Cokie,
the idiot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Political Videos Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC