Presidential candidate Edwards not hypocrite

[Sapphire Blue]

Presidential candidate Edwards not hypocrite
By Kevin Wilson: Freedom Newspapers
June 5

Since it’s already come up and will come up more in our campaign season, let’s have a vocabulary lesson.

Today’s word is “hypocrisy.” On dictionary.com, it’s “a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.”

(snip)

We know what is a hypocrite, so let’s talk about what isn’t — John Edwards. You’ll be told over the next few months he’s a hypocrite because he’s a millionaire lecturing about how hard it is for people living in poverty.

Ask these people why it’s hypocritical to want to help a social class you aren’t a part of. Also ask if it was hypocritical for any white person to participate in the civil rights movement in the 1960s because they weren’t black. I think you have your answer.

Now, if Edwards had used his Senate votes to support George Bush’s tax cuts that would have lined his pockets and cut from social programs the poor rely on, that would define hypocrisy. But Edwards voted against those tax breaks for himself.

(snip)

Maybe you don’t like John Edwards because you’re leery of people who make money as a trial lawyer. Maybe you don’t think his one Senate term is enough experience to get things done in Washington. If those are your reasons for voting elsewhere, don’t support Edwards or others who fit that criteria.

But don’t vote against Edwards for being a hypocrite on poverty. He’s not.


http://www.pntonline.com:80/opinion/edwards_10823___article.html/hypocrite_don.html

Transformational Change For America And The World - JOHN EDWARDS for PRESIDENT 2008

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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"I'm proposing we set a national goal of eliminating poverty in the next 30 years." - JOHN EDWARDS 08

Silence is Betrayal - JOHN EDWARDS 08

Moral Leadership - JOHN EDWARDS 08

Ending Poverty in America

[Dhalgren]

1. I believe that there are legitimate reasons for not supporting Edwards in the primaries,

but his stands on poverty, health care, education and social justice are all good reasons to support him. His compassion for and championing of people who are being ground underfoot in this country are real and laudable. His social policies should all be ironclad planks in the Democratic Party's platform...

[pocoloco]

2. So much for hypocrisy,

but what would you call somebody who would vote for war, death, and destruction because of the fear of possible harming his political future?

[Sapphire Blue]

3. ..

If you're referring to Edwards, it sounds like you're repeating Shrum's smears.

Honestly, does anyone believe or trust Shrum?

[Clark2008]

51. No - but I don't trust Edwards, either.

[Sapphire Blue]

52. You know, I wish you'd post a thread about a Democratic candidate that you *DO* support.

Edited to add: When you do post such a thread, please send me a PM. Thanks.

[corkhead]

4. a politician

[kansasblue]

5. I get this from my Republican friends....

... you have to be poor to talk for the poor. ' why don't they give their money away if they feel strongly about it?'

I toss this back at him.... ' then anyone supporting the war should be over there fighting and so should their kids'

[checks-n-balances]

7. Comeback:"Supporters of the 'war' & their children should be there fighting"

THANKS for that GREAT catch - I'll use it next time I can!

[WindRavenX]

11. ooo snap!

:thumbsup:

[Scriptor Ignotus]

6. hypocrite isn't an accurate word for Edwards

however, it is perhaps an interesting dichotemy to see a multi-millionaire live in a titanic mansion on a mammoth estate preach endlessly about how poverty is such a huge issue. It's analagous to an obese man who has dedicated his life to fighting world hunger. He's not being a hypocrite, but it raises eyebrows, albeit unfairly. Human nature, I guess...

[Sapphire Blue]

8. ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1048105

[jsamuel]

12. Or a white man going on about how black people aren't given equal opportunity.

If the white guy dressed up in black-face, no one would like that either. John Edwards can't pretend to be poor, that would only undermine his position.

An obese man (theoretically) could lose the weight.

[dogday]

16. Edwards professes to know the plight of being poor

growing up in a lower middle class income family instead of with a silver spoon in his mouth... What he knows about and what he has accomplished in his life to get where he is, are different things totally...

I have not picked a candidate, but I hate it when I see mis-statements like that....

[jsamuel]

20. sorry, i don't understand what your saying

Pardon.

[dogday]

21. I was agreeing with you

and against what the other poster said... Maybe I just posted in the wrong place.... oops :shrug:

[jsamuel]

22. oh, ok, i see

thanks

[bobbolink]

42. RFK

He was loved dearly for his devotion to poor folk, and *NEVER* called a hypocrite.

It took 40 years to now hear this from Dems.

:nuke:

[FrenchieCat]

9. Co-sponsoring, verbally and editorially supporting, and voting

for an elective blank check to go to war; a war that by the time we are finished will cost our treasury trillions and then saying you are fighting poverty is an irony, at best. These are Trillions that could have been better spent....

I also believe that Edwards saying 3 years later.... "Sorry, but I'll have to live with this forever" (while I run for President as penance) is no solace, and doesn't quite answer those who will also have to live with the results of Edwards' complicity all of their lives.....although obviously it is seen as Edwards being courageous by others.

I feel a disconnect between what this war is costing us and the state of our treasury. I see the same kind of disconnect with Republican candidates who say they value all life, yet don't have a problem with 650,000 dead Iraqis.

[Sapphire Blue]

10. Wow. Was Edwards president at the time? Did he pull out the inspectors & order the invasion?

You give him too much credit.

You dislike Edwards; your repetitive posts make that very clear.

[Buck Rabbit]

23. Well he did support the war in 2003 and 2004 and 2005

Even after it was known there were no WMDs. Regime change and terrorists and defense of Israel, WMDs didn't matter. He said in late 2003 that if he had been President he would have invaded anyway even knowing there were no WMDs. Then when the war became unpopular he says he was misled on the WMDs in 2002. The same WMds that didn't matter in 2003 2004 and 2005. WTF?

His apology should have been that he was denouncing his previous support of regime change and defense of purely theoretical threats to Israel through wars of aggression. But from his speech at the Herzliya conference it appears he still supports those principles so his apology is for what? Being misled about something he said didn't matter?

[FrenchieCat]

24. I think the real question is what did he do to stop it......or did he play in

encouraging our actions against Iraq?

Writing an OP-ed and co-sponsoring the blank check bill exactly butressed the President's case for war....provided Bush with legitimacy by providing not only a vote but support for a pre-emptive policy that has turned our name to shit all over the world. An elective war that we didn't have to fight and that will have cost trillions once it is all said and done. If you don't see the link between foreign policy issues and how they effectively cross the line into other policy issues, such as our domestic policies, then I am sorry that you don't make the direct connection which is there for those who would look.


In addition, taking three years to see the err in his ways, Edwards also hasn't exactly shown any prime examples of being able to be called a "quick study" either.

He offers up rethoric that sounds wonderful, but it doesn't quite "fire" me up as much as it might others.

[bobbolink]

46. the "REAL" question is, what is YOUR candidate doing to stop

people dying of poverty in *this* country?

[FrenchieCat]

29. As clear as you have made your support clear, I'm not quite sure why

I can't be as clear that I would prefer that Edwards NOT be the nominee and why that is. I don't hate him or dislike him, I just don't think he has what it will take to win the General election (even if he is the Southern White Male Candidate), and I just can't take 4 more years of hell. I believe that more than Hillary and/or Obama, he will be painted as a weakling who doesn't even know that 9/11 happened and one who goes where the polls goes in terms of leadership on war.

It's kind of like Edwards beating his chest and saying that we need to elect a "leader"....and that he will "lead", etc....but when it comes down to issues like Gay Marriage, he has decided that "leading" ain't his thing. It is easy to "lead" by getting in front of a crowd already gathered.....it is much more difficult to lead when support for a cause is unpopular. The poverty issue is a moral issue and a Vote getter in Democratic circles. Edwards knows this.

[Sapphire Blue]

35. It appears that you will be helping to paint him "as a weakling ".

BTW, where's that crowd that's was already gathered & fighting poverty that Edwards got in front of?

[Blackhatjack]

38. You are so right Sapphire! There is still time if other candidates want to pick up the mantle...

Edwards is the first Presidential Candidate in a long time to highlight 'poverty' as a worthwhile issue for this country to focus on. The last I remember was LBJ.

I certainly don't remember other politicians, including the other Democratic candidates running this time, making poverty a prime issue.

It is immoral to live in the richest country on earth and have people going to bed hungry at night, or not have a home to go to in the first place. Children are especially vulnerable, and they can do nothing about the situation they find themselves in.

Anyone who shines the light on this 'injustice' does us all a great favor.

[Sapphire Blue]

41. A senatorial & gubernatorial candidate who did...

Lessons from a Candidate Who Sought to End Poverty : http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1046209


I certainly wish the other current presidential candidates would focus on eliminating poverty. I think it's sad that they're not, sad that they are, for the most part, silent on this issue.

[GreenArrow]

19. "Republican candidates who say they value all life"

yet don't have a problem with 650,000 dead Iraqis."

I think it'd be fair to say that most most of the Democratic candidates -- hell, most Americans -- don't have have a problem with 650,000 dead Iraqis (more than that, if you count the numbers from the equally unecessary Gulf War I) either. Just so many eggs...

[FrenchieCat]

27. What gets me is when Edwards states that he'll "have to live with this

vote forever". He doesn't ever say that others apart from himself will also have to live with his vote for the rest of their lives. Living with the vote isn't penance....and running for President certainly isn't either.

[Blackhatjack]

36. Edwards is doing something to rectify the mistake he made, but he does not need your forgiveness...

He is trying to end this war because it is the right thing to do. Running for President gives him the power to do even more to correct mistakes made by many people in this country.

Why not give him credit for admitting his own mistakes(which many other candidates and non-candidates refuse to do) and his trying to get this country back on track?

I don't understand such rigidity among critics who can only dig the knife in deeper if any politician every admits they made a mistake and they are trying to atone for it.

[GreenArrow]

53. I suspect the penance

(whether he recognizes it as such or not) will come when he is sitting in "John's Lounge" and brooding over just where his campaign went wrong.

[Sapphire Blue]

54. Please feel free to comment here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1057418

[bobbolink]

44. Just as many war protestors don't "have a problem" with poor people in the US

dying of poverty and lack of medical care.

[GreenArrow]

13. not so much a hypocrite

as a poser.

[jsamuel]

14. He is not a poser.

I can make a statement out of thin air too.

[FrenchieCat]

25. Well it is not "thin Air"......

This is not the University of NC's Poverty Center where John worked partime since 2005....this is the other center that you specifically cited.

MAY 28, 2007
Up Front
Edited by Deborah Stead
John Edwards' Convenient Nonprofit

During periods when they're out of office, many politicians arrange jobs for loyal former aides. After his unsuccessful 2004 Vice-Presidential bid, John Edwards came up with a creative approach: He started a nonprofit dedicated to fighting poverty. Rather than recruiting outside poverty experts, the Center for Promise & Opportunity became a perch for several once and future Edwards staff members.

The line between an ordinary nonprofit and a group formed to test the political waters can be blurry. But legally there's a big difference. Ordinary nonprofits aren't subject to rules on disclosing donors and limiting contributions; exploratory political groups are. No one has challenged the status of the Edwards center, and experts in the field say it may technically pass muster as an ordinary nonprofit. But at a minimum, it appears to have helped Edwards prepare for the 2008 Presidential race.

Edwards, a former Democratic senator from North Carolina, launched the center in 2005 at the Washington (D.C.) address of his PAC. The nonprofit raised $1.3 million in 2005, the only year for which data are available, and spent some of it on a national speaking tour for Edwards. It also spent $259,000 on consultants. The campaign declines to disclose the donors or consultants. The center is now defunct, and some of its key leaders are now aiding the Edwards campaign.

Edwards' team defends the center. "Obviously, some of the people who had worked for Senator Edwards in government and on his campaign continued to work with him in this effort," says spokesman Eric Schultz. "John Edwards and everyone involved is proud of the organization's work."
By Eamon Javers
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_22/c4036012.htm?chan=search

[Blackhatjack]

34. I agree Edwards is not a poser. Here is a paragraph and link that shows he acts ....

LINK http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_22/c4036012.htm?chan=search

"The Edwards campaign says the Center is not connected to a separate Edwards anti-poverty effort at the University of North Carolina.

Edwards' team defends the center. "Obviously, some of the people who had worked for Senator Edwards in government and on his campaign continued to work with him in this effort," says spokesman Eric Schultz. "John Edwards and everyone involved is proud of the organization's work." That work included running a foundation that awarded $300,000 in college aid to 86 North Carolina students in 2006. The Edwards campaign put BusinessWeek in touch with recipient Tony Tyson, 18, who finished his freshman year at North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University. Tyson calls the scholarship "a golden opportunity." When he returns to campus this fall, he adds, he'll volunteer for Edwards' campaign.

************
This is not the first time Edwards has 'tested' a concept by funding a prototype.

Providing 86 college scholarships for students graduating from one of the poorest counties in North Carolina is quite an effort.

I think this qualifies as 'acting' instead of 'posing.'

[Sapphire Blue]

15. Is that why he is committed to fight poverty as long as he is living & breathing,

... whether or not he becomes president?

Is that why he founded the Center for Poverty, Work, and Opportunity @ UNC?

Is that why he has made eliminating poverty a main focus of his campaign, even though it is not considered a politically smart move?

Because he's a "poser"??? :rofl:

[GreenArrow]

17. the Center for Poverty, Work, and Opportunity

ain't done shit other than exist in order to promote John Edwards' Presidential ambitions.

Yeah, he's a poser.

[jsamuel]

18. All you can do is call people names.

You remind me of... people who can't think of anything else to say when they are confronted with all the facts that discount their erroneous beliefs.

[Sapphire Blue]

26. "ain't done shit"?

http://www.law.unc.edu/povertycenter/default.aspx

http://www.law.unc.edu/centers/poverty/news.aspx

http://www.law.unc.edu/centers/poverty/events.aspx

http://www.law.unc.edu/centers/poverty/mission.aspx

http://www.law.unc.edu/centers/poverty/awareness.aspx

http://www.law.unc.edu/centers/poverty/projects.aspx

http://www.law.unc.edu/centers/poverty/publications.aspx


You dislike Edwards so much that you would berate the Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity. That says a lot.

[FrenchieCat]

28. That's not the same "center".......

last I checked....the Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity at UNC is not Edwards' Center for Promise & Opportunity.

As an Edwards supporter, I'm surprised that you don't know about the difference between the two Centers. Maybe it was meant to confuse....that I don't know.

There is a story about an Edwards' speech at Berkeley --and you will notice three links that is to take you to the website of the Organizations mentioned in the story. However, also notice that the link for the "Center of Promise and Opportunity" , Edwards' organization no longer is on the web. That is because, as the story that I posted comments, it is now defunct.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/10/26_edwards.shtml
Page to the bottom of the story......
More information about the organizations mentioned in this story:
Opportunity Rocks
Center on Poverty, Work, and Opportunity at UNC Chapel Hill
Center for Promise and Opportunity

[jsamuel]

30. John Edwards was the director of the Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity

Your right that those two organizations are different, but John Edwards was the director for both.

It says that on the link provided to you by the poster you just berated for not knowing what they were talking about when you were the one who is uninformed.

[FrenchieCat]

32. I don't need to "Berate" DU members.......

At it is not required.

[Sapphire Blue]

33. A picture is worth a thousand words...the Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity...

... John Edwards, founding director...




Hmmm... when I Googled "Center of Promise and Opportunity", a link to Free Republic came up, as well as a Washington Times link. The RW is on the attack against Edwards.

[Blackhatjack]

31. In the interest of providing some clarity for the uninformed....

When individuals decide to set up nonprofit charitable organizations that require record keeping and accounting related to specific programs they want to fund, they almost always set up INDIVIDUAL foundations and groups that are incorporated under specific IRS provisions. That is why you often see many of the same individuals' names appear under multiple nonprofit charitable corporations.

When John and Elizabeth Edwards decided to fund a computer center available TO ALL STUDENTS FREE OF CHARGE at their son Wade's High School, they created one entity that was self-directing and handled its own funding. I believe it is named the Wade Edwards Learning Center Foundation.

When John and Elizabeth Edwards decided to test the concept of college for everyone they used a separate entity to do that, the Promise and Opportunity Center.

And when they decided to put together the anti-poverty center at UNC-Chapel Hill they wanted to fund it at NO COST to the university, which they did. The anti-poverty center does not make widgets. It brings together experts from all fields to work together to come up with solutions for combatting poverty, and it was intended to draw attention to the problem of poverty and its effects on society. Thus travel, speaking expenses, and consulting fees paid to participants at the anti-poverty center are really the 'work' of the center --which many critics have misclassified as 'administrative costs as high as 70%' in hopes of making people think Edwards and others are misusing charitable funds they received.

Hope this helps.

[Pastiche423]

59. If you had said

poseur, I would agree w/you 100%. For, to me, that is exactly what he is.

What is mindboggling is that some people are blind to his slick and calculating ways.

[GreenArrow]

61. same thing, ain't it? Or close enough...

Main Entry: po·seur
Pronunciation: pO-'z&r, 'pO-z&r
Function: noun
Etymology: French, literally, poser, from poser
: a person who pretends to be what he or she is not : an affected or insincere person

FWIW, poseur was what I originally typed, but poser seemed more straightforward.

He knows how to appeal to people's emotions and makes 'em feel good, even as their thinking elements are being charmed into quiescence.

[Pastiche423]

62. Yep, close enough

And well, he does "pose' a lot. lol

[Sapphire Blue]

63. Please feel free to comment here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1057418

[JVS]

37. Sorry, but the guy who takes pains to point out his "son of a millworker" cred for political gain...

as a way of showing some kind of connection with the poorer of "two americas" is going to have to accept that buying a house/ compound that is absolutely huge establishes a very solid connection between himself and the richer of these "two americas"

[Blackhatjack]

39. Hmmmm.... should the financially well off never be allowed to raise poverty as an issue? Kennedy?...

Kerry?

I guess Edwards should just say:

"I am afraid the wealth I have earned from working in my lifetime, and not inherited from my family, might make people think I am not serious about poverty as a blight on this nation, therefore I will not mention where I grew up, and how I arrived at this position today running for President of the United States."

So how many critics of Edwards would that satisfy?

[Sapphire Blue]

40. I wonder if this criticism has anything to do w/JRE being "Champion of the Working Class"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1054073

[JVS]

45. Did Kennedy go around acting like one of the common folk?

And frankly the lower class should be suspicious of rich people who claim to want to help.

Edwards needs to drop the act that Colbert so properly mocked with his "my father was a virginia turdminer" routine.

[Blackhatjack]

48. Well by all means listen to only 'poor people' who can do little about their predicament...

Do you not realize that people of means can make things happen to help the less well off? moreso than the poor could ever do?

And who qualifies as 'one of the common folk?'

[JVS]

49. Noblesse Oblige is a retreading of the "white man's burden"

Of course the rich can make more things happen, they own the damned system. But the rich intend to stay rich, and their motives are not beyond question. Their domination of our state is not a favor to us.

[GreenArrow]

56. when the rich help the poor

they generally do so in the service of their own interests.

[JVS]

58. yes

[Sapphire Blue]

64. That is certainly true in some cases. Do you believe it is true in all cases?

If you do, perhaps this might help you to see things a little differently: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Sapphire%20Blue/229

[Taverner]

43. He Apologized. Some people have no idea how hard this is to do.

But to admit to error in judgement, and promising to fix it as best as he can - makes a real man.

[GreenArrow]

57. what exactly did he apologize for?

Cheerleading for an unnecessary, illegal, aggressive war? His part in the deaths of over half a million Iraqis (of whom it can't be said often enough, offered us no threat)? What precisely, was he "wrong" about? Misjudging the military success and personal political fallout of this failed imperial adventure?

He's mentioned that he made a mistake in "trusting GWB," and that certainly qualifies as an error in judgment, but if the war had gone well, it's equally certain that he wouldn't be making any apologies, even though this war, intrinsically, by nature and design, would have been every bit as unnecessary, illegal and aggressive. That's the problem; his apology evidences no understanding of exactly what this war was based on and what it has entailed. It's pure politics, offered in the framework of politics, and geared towards personal political ends. That he throws his "apology" in the faces of his rivals, in the service of his own political gain belies its sincerity. Such an apology, is rather -- to my way of thinking -- insulting, and offensive.

[karynnj]

47. Obviously the author of this doesn't know that Edwards voted for the 2001 bankruptcy bill

which was very similar to the 2005 one. That is inconsistent with his current poverty stance as that bill made things tougher on people in debt.

[AzDar]

50. I have a real problem with that,also. I would love to be able to ask WHY

he'd vote for such nasty legislation.
If I could get a satisfactory answer, he'd have my full support.

[Snotcicles]

55. I know several people who filed bankruptcy just to get out of paying

their debt. It use to piss me off to. Here I was making the same money, good money at that, but I lived within my means and these freeloaders would run up big debt, get a lawyer, file, then brag that that they walked away from thousands and would be back up and running in only seven years. Now I think the bill that passed in 2005 went way to far but that crap that was going on through the 90's was costing all of us and something needed to be done.

[EFerrari]

60. Right here. K&R