Our values need a rest. Please no kidding, and no commenting on candidates.

[Neshanic]

"Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here."

Note "OUR" values.

So when gay people who will get kicked to the curb again in 2008, but vote as a block almost exclusively Democratic, we are not allowed to criticize? That would be quite a feat considering NO candidate has come even close to supporting my rights as a human being by using the coded messages "I don't believe in gay marriage, it's up to the states, or any other non comittment.

I had no idea that "our" values is broken down to subgroups in the Demcratic party.

I also had no idea that even joking sarcastically about the candidates is considered highly inflamatory. Funny because "Gay" always comes up in the election cycles, and so by that reasoning when it does, am I allowed a "break" from being used as a political football by my own party? Will the threads offensive to me by people telling me that I need to wait my turn? Stop being a one issue? Wait your turn?

Is that how it works? Shut the fuck up and vote for our person served up for you, no questions allowed?

When the "gay" thing starts, and it will, then the offensive threads that tell gays to "wait out back" and you will get yours soon....will I get a respite?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Absolutely Fight For Your Rights. But Come Election Time, Please Vote Democratic. It's Important.

But I definitely can understand your passion and why it bothers you that the candidates don't come out more strongly about it.

Kinda perplexes me sometimes how we can be in the 21st century now and still not have plain and straightforward equal rights for EVERYBODY, period.

[Neshanic]

5. It's important to who?

The people who lock a thread that jokes about the candidates that have nothing to offer me that veryone else has because they sleep with a person of the opposite sex? The people who need a "break" from their candidates being ragged on? The ones that support their candidates with their very soul, but you better not try to pin them down to more than what their candidate spews out on gay rights. Then you are a "one issue" person.

I do not know which is more disgusting.

The fact that the usual suspects gang of candidates get approving nods for how cleaverly they dodge the fact that I do not have the same rights as others in that span our whole society or the fact a thread like that was locked because some people can't even take that kind of scuriny.

But be damned sure that MY rights will be scrutinized and heads here will nod in agreement that we as gays take another for the team.... and shut the Hell up while here discuss what we will offer you if anything.

[KG]

15. apparently, it's important to straight white liberal males.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. It Should Be Important To All Of Us: Unless You Truly Think Another Republican President Is Better

for you.

Of course it's important to vote for the Democrat. Anyone on this site should be able to agree with that.

[KG]

20. do not presume to lecture me on what i should think or agree with.

[The Straight Story]

12. The reason my friend is both scary and nearly self evident:

People worry the most about their own rights first - and with patriot act and other things their biggest concern is what affects them more.

No fly lists, people getting fired for smoking, genetic testing, habeas corpus, increasing restrictions on your life, passports now to get back in your own country, health care, etc and so on all day long.

People see a huge laundry list of issues that affect them directly. Like me with my issues on freedom to smoke in a damned bar (which I don't go to anyway usually) - it is not MY freedom that I am most worried about in this case, it is the freedom of people to run a business and make choices like adults should be able to do. Now that is not my MAIN issue of course (before someone jumps on me and says I equate smoking to gay rights - I am in no way doing so and am not trying to pull a biden) but I wanted to use that as but one example of how people look at the world when we get outside of DU (and sometimes in it....).

I think many folks want gays to have the right to marry, but it is not their core issue if it is not affecting them as there are many more issues which impact them that they want to see addressed and fixed.

Can we do em all? Sure we can, and we SHOULD. But candidates will pander to their largest block and throw bones to the smallest ones to keep em on the line. And the block everyone wants to get is the swing voters because the core folks like us will vote for satan herself (see, I threw a bone to the feminists!) if she won our primary.

Our vote is locked up, the voting machines see us coming and run the vote for us. No need to kiss our ass - which shows to me in some cases that some people really don't give a jack shit about gay rights, etc - they care about winning and then once they are in they want to stay and take as little risk as possible.

And I have seen that very strategy (as the OP notes) even here on DU: Wait to do anything major until after we win, them we can impeach. Then it's, well we better wait until we win in 2008 so we don't turn off the swing votes, etc and so on.

We need people with some serious fortitude who don't care how many more elections they win - they should be using their power to do what we hired em to do. Politicians are on our welfare plan it seems. You don't need to work too hard and we will pay you and give you life long health care. Just chalk up wins and some change, but be slow doing it so you don't make someone mad.

It's all a bullshit game to some people - while gays sit around year after year not being able to have a simple fucking thing like marriage.

Dumb as fuck.

[JeffR]

2. K & R, Neshanic

:kick:

[Madspirit]

3. back-burner

I'm also tired of our lives and survival being on the back fucking burner.
Right on.
Madspirit

[mitchtv]

4. I am tired too

in the primary, I will vote my conscience, in the General I will vote Democratic.
I will not trash Dem. candidates I don't support
I will promote a candidate should I decide early
I will not support a Dem who runs negative adds against good Dems.

[LoZoccolo]

6. IBTL!!!!1

[Neshanic]

7. That's pretty funny. The topic is candidates that do not support gay rights.

But want nothing but praise and support. From me.

[KG]

8. always remember the loyalist motto: the right thing should only be done

when it's convenient for democrats.

personally you have my support to vote your hopes and not your fears.

[Prophet 451]

9. You're right but...

Granted, none of the candidates has yet had teh guts to come out and say "yes, gay people should be allowed to marry/adopt/serve in the military". Yes, they should do so but, you must have recognised that large parts of the USA seem to pride themselves on a dark ages mentality and they want to be elected. No, that's not an excuse but the fact remains, you, as a gay person, are more likely to get a halfway even deal from a Democrat (even if you don't get the rights you're entitled to).

Molly Ivins once said something to the effect that in the primary, she voted to change teh world. In the election itself, she voted for the lesser of two evils. I understand where you're coming from, I really do but, as far as gay rights are concerned, the D's really are the lesser of two evils.

[Neshanic]

11. It may be time for a gay movement to pull the vote from Democrats. By not voting at all.

We have been denied and abused in media, by the Republicans, and by our own party with it's tip-toe around the issue for too long.

The fact that I have a thread locked on a satirical view of the candidates, but then no lock will ever occur when the inevitable gay thing comes up in 2008, as the republicans will do, and people here will dicuss in detail how my rights and others like me should be dealt with so they can have THEIR candidate.

It's like someone talking about what your life will be with a like minded group and you standing there with a gag on your mouth...and they pretend you don't exist.

[Prophet 451]

18. Might I suggest...

...that if the gay community (and yes, I'm aware how absurd it is to categorise a group of people who's only common link is who they fancy) withdraws it's support from the Dems, the Dems will stop pushing for even the weak measures they are already pushing for.

Might I also suggest that it might be slightly more productive to make a concerted effort by the gay community (via whichever body you choose, say, Outrage) to make their voice felt during the primaries. Assuming that the percentage of D voters who are gay is roughly the same as the general population (i.e. somewhere between 8 and 12 percent), then there should be enough power in numbers there to, if not affect the primary, then certainly to force gay rights as an issue.

It really says something when I know several gay couples planning to move here (England) because although we don't have gay marriage as such, we have a domestic union law which grants any registered gay couple identical rights to straight couples (they even use the same paperwork).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. I voted for a homophobic bigot the last election.

But only because he was better than the homophobic bigot he was running against. I didn't like doing it.

I'll probably end up voting for a homophobic bigot this next election, for the very same reason. Is there an alternative? Gay DUers, what did you do last election?

[KG]

13. hey! the dem party will take a principled stand on gay rights just as soon

as the polls support it. or maybe not.

[Nye Bevan]

14. Almost all of the Democratic candidates are almost certainly in favor of gay marriage

They are just too craven to admit it. Because they don't want to lose the votes of bigoted homophobes.

I think they are making a big mistake. I highly doubt that there are all that many bigoted homophobes who end up voting Democratic because the candidates do not openly support gay marriage.

[justiceischeap]

17. Back when Clinton 1 was running the first time

The gay community came out in DROVES for him because he said he was going to overturn the "gays in the military" law. He didn't do it but he said enough to get the gay community excited. I don't know of one candidate that's currently in the race who supports gay marriage.

Obama:
Doesn't support Gay Marriage because of his Christian beliefs (althought civil unions are okay)
http://after-words.org/grim/mtarchives/2004/09/Sep242301.shtml

Edwards:
On 2/24/04 Edwards said in response to President Bush's proposed Constitutional amendment, "I am against the president's constitutional amendment on gay marriage...I don't personally support gay marriage myself. My position has always been that it's for the states to decide."
http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/workschool/p/johnedwards.htm

Biden:
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/06/19/414/44343

Clinton:
"My position is consistent. I support states making the decision," she said.
http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2006/10/27/1

Clark:
Clark opposes same-sex marriage but says, "I support civil unions so that gays and lesbians have equality and full rights under the law." When asked about the Massachusetts marriage ruling Clark said, “I think we need to move forward with this issue. I think people who want same-sex marriages really should have the same rights as people in conventional marriages.”
http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/workschool/p/WesleyClark.htm

And gay marriage is just the hot button issue. There are so many other issues that need to be addressed it's not even funny! But as the OP stated, we'll be kicked around but courted for our support.

I find myself sometimes wishing the passion that is put behind the "stop the war" campaign were half as prevelant in getting rights for all people in the United States but oh well, I find myself thinking the same as Clinton: "My position is consistent..." people aren't going to support my fight for equal rights under the law but they'll expect me to fall in line lockstep to vote for the Dem candidate that is the worse of two evils.

[Neshanic]

19. Thank you for that summary. It helps a great deal.

[MaggieSwanson]

32. You forgot this one.

Kucinich: I believe that equality of opportunity should be afforded to all Americans regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. For that reason I support the right of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered persons to have the full protections and rights afforded under civil law including the right to marry the person of their choice.

http://kucinich.us/issues/gayrights.php

[Madspirit]

21. NOPE!!

**It may be time for a gay movement to pull the vote from Democrats. By not voting at all.**


NOPE! Lesbian here and I supported your original post. It is absurd that all humans don't have the same rights. It's absurd I cannot marry the woman I have been with for 15 years. It is absurd that I go without insurance because I have none and I cannot be on hers. It is absurd that if I ended up in the hospital unable to make my own decisions, some redneck relative I haven't seen in 25 years would be called in, over the woman I share my life with. Etc. We are screwed every which way.

Still we are not the ONLY lives on this planet. Republicans hurt everyone. They hurt gays, women, minorities, children, the disabled, the planet, the whales, the seals, people in poverty, babies, etc. They hurt ALL life. It would be unconscionable, imo, to do anything that might help a Republican win the presidential election.

I would not support that kind of boycott. I would support taking it to the streets, job walk-offs, just about everything...but not that.
Madspirit

[treestar]

22. This is a problem no matter what.

And why nobody does themselves any good being on one issue.

Repukes are generally worse than Democrats on this issue. Which holds true also for feminists and environmentalists and many others.

Also the importance each of us attaches to each issue is different. Some people who aren't gay will sympathize but not make it their sole consideration.

[skyblue]

23. I would criticize Ned "the Bug-eyed" Le "I think I'm Jimmy Stewart" Blond.

I made my money from scratch.

But I've since felt: The Candidates who are running for President and may become VP should be left alone otherwise we will have no candidate for VP and no back up candidate in case a candidate running for President makes a slip (which seems to be very easy) from which he/she can't recover. As well as of course the United States is not San Francisco. A more accurate depiction might be obtained from the Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres, Petticoat Junction, and Hee Haw. Note the amazingly large amounts of people who attend televangelist gatherings, and the amazingly large amounts of Jesus billboards and number of church attendees per capita in some states. And the popularity of American Idol. If we were to dispense with electoral college and get a majority vote then we'd probably be ok.

[sniffa]

24. sit down, shut up, vote dem

[bicentennial_baby]

25. hey!

where's your sig? :o

[sniffa]

26. i tried to change it

to a hyperLink, but it wasn't working. x(

[bicentennial_baby]

27. awwww....

:hug:

[Jonathan50]

28. Aryan heterosexual middle aged male here

I have no problem at all with gay marriage. In fact, all other things being equal, I would vote for a candidate who supported gay marriage over one that didn't. I suppose for political reasons it would have to be termed "civil commitment" or something similar but it should have the full legal rights as heterosexual marriage.

That being said, I have an issue of my own that Democrats refuse to address.

As someone who vastly prefers cannabis to alcohol (I'm an old hippy) where are the Democrats who support drug legalization? Cigarette smokers complain about their rights being violated (I don't smoke cigarettes) but my rights are being violated far more than theirs.

It is drug criminalization which has lead "the land of the free" to have the highest incarceration rate on the planet, bar none, and the vast majority of drug arrests are for cannabis.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html

"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."

--Spider Robinson

[mitchtv]

31. Welcome to DU Jonathan50

From another aging hippie:hippie: :smoke:

[JacksonWest]

29. No President has ever met the needs of every person.

Are Gay rights the only issue that is relevant? I understand that it's pretty significant, but there are a lot of issues on the table that effect all of us, gay , straight, mooninite, gay mooninite, ect....

My pet issue is the tyranny of the FCC and the preservation of first amendment rights....this usually gets ignored. I would also like to see a system of National Health Care. Gay people should have the right to marry. I voted for it. It got shot down(in my State). So...congress could try and make a law that allowed gay people the right to marry...and we would have to see if the Supreme Court held it up. But a President isn't going to be able to wave a wand and make it so. You need a majority in Congress, and/or in your state. The Prez-whoever that happens to be, will go along with the majority.

Right now, it's such a divisive issue, most candidates stay away from it. It sucks. Politics is a necessary evil, and we usually have to choose between the lesser of two evils. Or one evil, one stupid. Or two stupids.

[Madspirit]

30. DUH People

Yeah because Cannabis and the FCC really have to do with basic human rights. Let's take away black rights and women's rights and how about straight white boy rights. Straight white boys can no longer get married. They just abuse everyone anyway. How's that? You say it isn't an issue you even care about because you aren't gay? So you don't care about black rights because you aren't black? You don't care about women's rights because you aren't a woman. What idiocy.

This has to do with this...quoting myself, from above:


Me..."It is absurd that all humans don't have the same rights. It's absurd I cannot marry the woman I have been with for 15 years. It is absurd that I go without insurance because I have none and I cannot be on hers. It is absurd that if I ended up in the hospital unable to make my own decisions, some redneck relative I haven't seen in 25 years would be called in, over the woman I share my life with. Etc. We are screwed every which way."


It's stupid beyond belief that anyone does not get this. If I hear too much more crap about how it's no different than cannabis rights or problems with the FCC, maybe I will change my position and go along with the OP and not vote. There is a big fucking difference. This has to do WITH MY SURVIVAL.

...and by the way, I'm an old hippie too and I also smoke cannabis and think it is absurd that it is illegal but I would never mistake it for the same thing as my right to my very survival. Hmm...maybe I should rethink my position about withholding my vote. The response makes me want to puke.
Madspirit