Help - brown out due to partial power outage -

[Holly_Hobby]

I've shut off the A/C and the frig. I have my laptop running on battery wirelessly. Nothing else is powered on except a blinking LED clock.

We had a storm and the brown out for about 3 hours. Is there anything else I should do or shouldn't do?

I've called the utility, police, radio and TV stations - they have no information or I get a recording. I'm so pissed off that I can't get any information that I could spit.

Thanks.

[madokie]

1. ac electric motors as a whole don't like low voltage

so make sure you turn anything with them off

[Holly_Hobby]

2. Thank you

[caligirl]

3. Anything plugged in standby like the cable box? Stuff your not using but is

on standby using electricity.

[Holly_Hobby]

5. Yep

The cable box for my internet is working, but I've unplugged the cable to the TV and the TV itself. Thanks.

[Breeze54]

4. UNPLUG EVERYTHING IN YOUR HOUSE NOW!!!!!!!

INCLUDING THE REFRIGERATOR, STOVE, WASHER, DRYER, ETC!!!!

I had that happen and it fried almost ALL my elecritrical components in my house!!!

Run!!! Start unplugging and get off line, if you're using electrical!!

UNPLUG YOUR PHONES FROM THE WALL ALSO!!

Hurry!!!!

[lonestarnot]

7. And unplug your ass from the chair! Hurry run! He's not kidding!

And neither am I!

[Breeze54]

12. I'm serious as a heart attack!!

I had 16 volts power in my fridge during a brownout (dirty power)
and I lost my VCR, TV, DVD Player, phones etc. Also my son's PSI.

[Holly_Hobby]

21. Everything's unplugged except a clock, lamp and the cable

internet box. I don't have the lamp on, but the clock is on.

[lonestarnot]

25. unplug them too! Clocks can catch on fire, mine had a short in it and

I'm sure a power surge would have made it blow then we could have impeached it after it burned the fucking house down.

[conscious evolution]

8. Turn off the circuit breakers instead

It is a lot easier theb running around unplugging stuff.

[dweller]

32. This is the correct answer !

either cut them off individually, or just hit the main off.

When the power is up, you should cut the individuals on one at a time rather than the main at once.
(so you should cut them off individually in any case)

the water heater is another that doesn't like surges.

dp

[karlrschneider]

46. Uh, you have to turn on the main before any of the individual circuits will work.

Okay I see what you mean, was just clarifying. What is there about a water heater, though? It's just a resistance element and shouldn't care about low voltage...??

[dweller]

61. dunno, karl

but after Hurricane Fran, and my power came on again after 8 days of no power, the h20 heater was kaput.
so said the electician.

and after the storm that took out my vcr, (when power was restored) and the lightening strike that made juice jump over to my phone line and fry my first computer which was unplugged due to the storm, i guess i've learned (and heeded the advice of the electricity workers) to kill the main/circuits, and then after power is restored, bring them up one by one.

dp

[karlrschneider]

64. Ah. If an electric water heater isn't full, the heating elements will burn out

in very short order! As little as a minute or 2! It might have been low on water when the power came back on.
Lightning can do some weird things, so true...however circuit breakers are pretty poor lightning arrestors. A close hit can jump right through them. The telephone interconnect boxes are supposed to have protective devices to prevent lightning surges from getting through but they degrade over time and lose their effectiveness (like the MOVs in the surge protectors you can get at the hardware store.)

[conscious evolution]

66. The element does not care

about the voltage being low.It is the branch circuit wires that care.
As voltage drops resistance goe up.This can cause the wire to overheat which can lead to fire.Circuit breakers are supposed to protect against thermal overload but when line voltage gets low funny things happen sometimes and breakers do not always trip.

Also,water heater elements do go bad from non use.I don't know why but I have changed many after extended power outtages.

[karlrschneider]

10. That's a little hysterical. Just the fridge and a/c is fine.

And don't turn on other stuff. The phones have absolutely no relevance.

[Breeze54]

14. Electrical phones do!

Portable phones use electrical power.

[karlrschneider]

15. Yes but low or no voltage won't affect them.

And even if it did, unplugging the PHONE wire has nothing to do with the power supply.

[Breeze54]

16. When the power SURGED back on from the brown out, it killed my phone.

besides a lot of other stuff!

I*'m not being hysterical. I've had it happen to me.

[karlrschneider]

18. The phone line does not connect to the electric mains. It only goes to batteries

at the telephone company. Every cordless phone uses a wall-wart transformer which would be the only thing possibly damaged by a surge. And that is highly improbable.

[Breeze54]

23. My phone was fried.

Are you saying I don't know what happened at my house?? :crazy:

I had an electrician at the house, a neighbor. He is a Master Electrician.

[karlrschneider]

27. I hope you had some salt and pepper.

:eyes:

[Breeze54]

28. Byte me!

:eyes:

[karlrschneider]

31. How about a nybble?

:D

[Breeze54]

33. How about a nano nano? (Brown-outs are the mother of all sorts of Bad Stuff.)

;)

What are some common effects of Brown-outs?

Brown-outs are the mother of all sorts of Bad Stuff.

http://www.elect-spec.com/faqbrwn.htm

Power supplies in some electronic equipment may fall out of regulation.

Errors, due to erratic power supply performance, may creep into computer operations.

Other electronic equipment may function poorly - or not function at all.

Marginally performing devices (electronic or electric) will probably cease operation entirely.

Motors will overheat. Some motor types will slow down.

Electrical interference will greatly increase. Increased interference may affect computer and communication operations.

Off-line UPS units (the vast majority of lower cost units) continuously cycle between power line
and internal battery operation. UPS batteries (generally sized to provide only 5 - 10 minutes
back-up) will soon be discharged, unable to generate additional Back Up power.

You are out of business.

If system has not been shut-down, the entire system (UPS & computer) may snap back to life when
power rises slightly, only to again shut down when the power line voltage falls back into the Brown-out zone.

Such "ON-OFF" operational cycling is unhealthy for UPS, batteries and connected electronics.

or Brown-out correction see our Voltage Regulator Page.

Spikes generated by electrical machinery also greatly increase. Air conditioners, refrigerators
and other motorized devices generate local spikes. Industrial machinery (often miles away) create
additional spikes which may find their way unto the electrical distribution system, and into your
sensitive, valuable equipment.

[karlrschneider]

36. Good information. All absolutely true. But there is no mention of 'frying' anything there.

Not to be disagreeable but I do know something about the subject, I've worked with electronics for over 50 years.
(Yeah, I'm an old phart)

Low voltage is a horrible problem with AC induction motors...they will attempt to draw more and more power to 'make up' for the inability to spin up. Overheating and possible burnout actually is a real possibility. But actual damage to electronic stuff from brownouts is pretty rare. Our commercial utility out here in the boondocks is marginally reliable and we often have to fire up the generator when it goes out. We manage to get by on about 85 volts when we run too much stuff and have never yet ruined any piece of equipment.

[Breeze54]

39. I've also worked in Electronics for over 20 yrs.

I had my stuff ruined by a brown out and to tell her it's no big deal is wrong, imho.

The safest thing to do is eliminate the power source until the brown out is fixed or back to normal.

I don't take chances anymore, since I lost a lot. Why should Holly? :shrug:

I don't want to argue electrical surges, dirty power or brown outs with you.

I know what happened in my case, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

It's better to be safe than sorry, imho. Unless you have money to burn.

[karlrschneider]

44. I just meant to say there's no reason to go ballistic and isolate everything electrical.

There's no reason why you should have lost a lot of stuff unless somebody screwed up and tied in the wrong feed or tap line somewhere up the line. In that case, you should have had a lot of local company with the same problem. Did you?

[Breeze54]

52. My event happened during a power outage neighborhood wide.

But it wasn't until my equipment began failing, (next day) after power was restored and
then the next morning, a brown out. One after the other and a brown out at my house alone
that the big guns were finally called in... and it took a lot of calls!! Assholes!!

Yes, we did have a neighborhood wide power outage but the power line connected to my house
was failing and was causing the brownout that next day and fried a lot of my electrical equipment.
When I opened the fridge and I had 16W of light, is when I called my neighbor, the electrician and
he helped me with the power co. and also cut the power off. It was a Quadplex. And I lost electrical
equipment from the event.

Afterwards, after the repair to the mainline to the house, when the power went out during storms?

I never lost any power and my house alone was lit up like an Xmas tree!! :rofl:

Everyone else needed generators or suffered. :P

[Breeze54]

60. FYI ---> Brownouts (for those who need to know)

Brownouts

http://www.startremodeling.com/brownouts.htm

A brownout occurs when the power supplier reduces electrical voltage.

This is done to force our appliances and lights to use less electrical power (watts).

The lights will dim slightly.

Generally, voltage reductions are advertised on radio and television. (Not!)

When they occur take the following steps:

1. Turn off all lights and appliances except those which are absolutely necessary.

2. Delay jobs like dishwashing and laundry until after the brownout is over.

3. Turn off all air conditioning if it is operating, unless it is necessary for a person's health.

4. If you have an electric range, plan meals which require a minimum of cooking.

If everyone will cooperate and reduce electrical consumption, the duration of the brownout
will be reduced. It is also important to continue to conserve energy immediately following
the brownout or voltage reductions may again have to be put into effect.

The power suppliers do reduce voltage more than 10 volts below normal during a brownout,
which for limited periods of a few hours will not cause damage to a consumer's equipment.

If a reduction in power is not planned by the power company, shut down all equipment with motors.

The low power could cause the equipment to burn out the motor trying wiring supplying the equipment.

An electrician should be called to check out the problem.

This article was written by Anne Field, Extension Specialist, Emeritus,
with references from MSU's Ag Engineering Department

[conscious evolution]

68. This is incorrect

This is done to force our appliances and lights to use less electrical power (watts).

Any electrical device will use the same wattage no matter the voltage.A 50 watt light bulb will always be a 50 watt light bulb.What changes is the current.It goes up as voltage goes down
The problem with higher current is that it can cause wire to melt and/or burn from over heating if the amperage exceeds the wires capacity.The smaller the wire the less it can handle.

[windbreeze]

40. me too....surge took out my phone...I never even gave it a thought...and I lost it...n/t

[Breeze54]

45. I really like your name! Looks familiar!

:rofl:

Thanks!

Some people think all electronics and electrical equipment is safe in a power outage. :eyes:

No it is not, as you and I both know! ;) And then there's that nasty static electricity...

[windbreeze]

65. I believe we are both

from the great PNW?....we have lost elec. for 12/14 hrs at a time, where I live...I usually hit all surge protectors, unplug wires, etc.,...but I like the thought of just hitting the big ole box out on the back porch...seems much easier...next time, that is what I will do...I have lost hard drives, telephones, and water heaters through surges...(ps: I commented on your name once too, and asked if were you were located in this area)
windbreeze

[Breeze54]

35. I said the electrical line not the phone line. n/t

[karlrschneider]

38. Okay, I just saw this line, pasted from your post

"UNPLUG YOUR PHONES FROM THE WALL ALSO!!"

and assumed you were referring to the wire that goes into the modular jack. Mea culpa.

[Holly_Hobby]

11. Thanks!

I have everything unplugged except an LED clock and one lamp, which is switched off. I'm using the battery on the laptop wirelessly. The cable internet box is plugged in, but it's not my equipment.

[karlrschneider]

13. How is the cable box getting power?

You just might have a loose or broken neutral in your breaker or service box. Are your neighbors dark too?

[Holly_Hobby]

22. The entire city is near dark, from a storm n/t

[karlrschneider]

29. Strange. I wonder how your clock and cable box are still running.

It is a mystery.

[Breeze54]

19. Good! Better safe than sorry!

I learned my lesson when that happened to me.

And the utility company could give a flying f**k !

You have to fight them tooth and nail for a claim.

[Warpy]

6. Make sure it isn't just you

and then go to a movie, go to dinner, find a place to buy a flashlight and a book, listen to radio or music on an iPod or whatever obsolete technology I share, open the windows and listen to everything technology usually blocks out, and just wait. I usually leave one light on so I'll know when the power comes back.

If all you're getting is a recording at the utility company, they're already aware of it and are sending crews out to fix the problem(s).

No power failures here yet this year, but they're so frequent in the summer that I don't bother to set the DVR clock.

[BlackHawk706867]

9. This especially applies to any computer equipment including...

Peripheral's...

ww

[Holly_Hobby]

17. Question

My laptop is running on battery wirelessly. The cable internet box and router is plugged in and working. Can my laptop be damaged using it in this manner?

[karlrschneider]

20. No, it won't hurt it. Did you see my other post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1199619&mesg_id=1199707

[Holly_Hobby]

24. Yes - thanks. Hug. :)

[Canuckistanian]

34. Oh, karlschneider, you are wise in the way of power supplies

You give good advice, dude.

SPS-type power supplies are the most susceptible. Especially the big ones (PC power supplies, TVs, etc. And the large drawing AC motors, such as A/C, Refridge and freezers.

The linear PS's (wall-warts, etc.) are less so. Stuff such as phones, cable boxes, modems won't be affected much.

Still, it's unwise to keep them running.

[karlrschneider]

37. Heh...I built the PS for my first big transmitter (also a homebrew with 2 813s)

in 1958. Mercury vapor rectifiers and a 12 pound choke. I think the power xfmr was about 30. :D

[Breeze54]

41. I used to repair PS circuitry and also watch

them blow up!!! LOL! It was a lot of fun! :P

[Canuckistanian]

47. I used to be an expert at PS failure detection - by smell

Sniff, sniff - capacitor

Sniff, sniff - diode

Sniff, sniff, cough, choke - transformer

[karlrschneider]

49. Don't ever do that without safety glasses! I've seen a LOT of electrolytic caps

literally explode!
:scared:

[Breeze54]

56. LOL! I wasn't testing them at that time, just repairing but

the testers were behind me and I'd hear the yell;
"Uh Oh!!" And then giggling and running and then, "BOOM!!!"
The boom was the PS hitting the ceiling! Lmao!
It was pretty funny! :P I had a lot of fun working there! ;)

[karlrschneider]

48. I really hate switching power supplies. They're cheap and pretty efficient but

they suck in most ways. I can't imagine spending more than 5 minutes trying to fix one though...if replacing the fuse doesn't take care of it, no way would I waste any more time on a $20 piece of stuff...

[Breeze54]

53. Tell that to Data General !

:P

They wanted us to repair the crap!

Guess that's why they called it the Repair Depot?? :shrug: :rofl:

We called it R & D... Repair & Destroy Or Rip & Destroy!! :P

[karlrschneider]

55. My first encounter with computers was a DG Eclipse, in ...uh, '76 or so?

I can't recall ever having any problems with the power supply but they had an odd habit of losing the bootstrap from time to time - (memory was ferrite core) - I'd have to start 'em up by manually setting the 16 switches to the boot code.
I knew the sequence for years but not now...come to think of it, I seem to recall they were all in Octal. (!)
yikes

[Breeze54]

57. The DG Eclipse was new when I was there!

I remember the woman now, who was testing them! I can see her face. ;)

I remember them setting up the new test equipment just for the Eclipse.

Yikes!! That was a long time ago!! ;)

[Canuckistanian]

43. Are you a Ham?

Mercury vapor? 12 pound chokes? This sounds like the dark ages. :P

[karlrschneider]

51. I was K5ETH for years. Got my General at age 13, in 1955

but I lost interest in the early 70s. It got too much like CB. Actually I built the first 2 meter repeater west of the Mississippi in 1960 using a 1/4 KW Motorola xmtr, an old 5 cavity FMTRU-5V (tube, of course) receiver and a homebrew cobbled-up squelch circuit. It was on the back porch of my mom's house in Tulsa and the big power relay that kicked in whevever someone tripped it sounded like a gunshot. She hated the thing! I just called it K5ETH Repeater because the FCC hadn't even written rules for them back then. :D (It's still on the air as WA5LVT kinda like Abe Lincoln's Axe...you know, it's 'original' but it's had 3 new heads and 7 new handles.) ;-)

[Canuckistanian]

58. I've been studying for my Basic for few years now

Just never got around to actually taking the test. The technical is no problem, I just need to learn the regs (Industry Canada).

My son (10 yrs old) is REALLY keen on learning Morse for some obscure reason, so we're studying it together.

Maybe I can move up to advanced sooner than I anticipated!

Nice to hear about the "good old days". I've yet to get my first rig, although I listen to the local hams on a repeater near me with my scanner.

[karlrschneider]

59. I probably couldn't copy more than 10 or 12 wpm now, it's been years since I tried

I believe the Morse requirement has been dropped here in the US. I might be mistaken, I don't really pay much attention to it these days. ;-)

[lonestarnot]

26. Not back on yet?

[Holly_Hobby]

30. No - and it's been nearly 3 hours

I'm so pissed off that I can't get any information.

[lonestarnot]

50. Damn! You still hanging in there?

[foreigncorrespondent]

42. Wow this surprises me!

Currently where I am in Victoria/Australia we are facing major floods. I currently have the radio tuned in and we have constant reports of what is happening and where. I know right now which roads are closed, and what the current levels of the rivers are. I am surprised the U.S. doesn't have a similar system.

[Breeze54]

54. We do have Emergency Mgt local and they broadcast on the radio.

But forget the Federal FEMA!! They're idiots since * was falsely installed. :grr:

[lonestarnot]

62. Holly_Hobby... you have power yet?

[Holly_Hobby]

63. The power went out completely after my last post

I still have twist-in fuses, so I pulled the main fuse until I woke up around 4:30AM. I went outside and tested my motion light, and it worked. So I put the main fuse back in and the lamp came on. Everything appears to be working. Thanks to everyone with the help I should have been able to get from my power company.

[lonestarnot]

67. Woot! Now kick back with a cold one!

:toast: