How have Faith Hill and Tim McGraw managed to retain their fans despite criticizing Bush

[Mike Daniels]

while the Dixie Chicks lost most of country fans.

From what I've seen/heard Faith and Tim have been vocal/critical about the Bush administration esp. regarding the way Katrina has handled and Iraq and they don't seem to have suffered any backlash.

Any theories?

[Doctor_J]

1. I don't think the Chicks have suffered much

or at least they've come all the way back.

Hate radio's reach is only so long.

[Cha]

9. Right..they're happy with the

way things turned out after the long hard journey.

I don't know about Faith and Tim's fans but The Chicks got blasted for the anti-bushit statement when his ratings were high(he sure sucked those away) and now they're in the sewer where they belong.

[LSK]

16. except death threats

Go see Shut Up and Sing

[CatholicEdHead]

2. Country Music Lables want to keep their bottom line?

They can afford to attack one well known group, but not three top acts.

[murielm99]

3. McGraw and Hill

put most of their criticism in terms of Katrina, at least at first. I don't think the wingnuts noticed, since most of them were secretly appalled by Katrina, too.

The Dixie Chicks attracted the attention of the freepers, who started the Internet campaign, and it took off from there. Their critics were better organized. Until I saw the documentary, I had no idea the freeps started this.

I have so much respect for them for standing their ground, and finding a way to retain a fan base. Have you seen the documentary Shut Up and Sing? They went through so much, and they did not back down. Most of the critics of this administration, even the powerful ones, have not done that. The pressure was too much for them.

It does not take as much courage now to criticize *. Even repukes are doing it.

I don't really care for country music. But I appreciate McGraw and Hill for speaking up.

[Cha]

10. "SHUT UP AND SING"!

One of the best, most inspriing documentaries I've ever seen and it's got music!

[alphafemale]

22. Thanks for that reminder.

Just joined NetFlix and needed to add that to my Queue.

[Cha]

27. You'll love it!

My friends and I saw it at the local theater in a special showing for the Art Center's fundraiser and we all just were completely, emotionally engrossed!

[alphafemale]

30. I moved it to the top of my Queue

I already have "Children of Men" and "Pan's Labyrinth" coming.

[gatorboy]

4. Don't forget Willie.

He's kept a strong country fan base while being as liberal as they come. :)

Dixie Chicks criticized Bush WAY before it was chic, so to speak. Faith and McGraw really didn't start chipping away at him until his popularity started to sag.

[Cha]

11. Zactly!

The Chicks were the canaries in the coal mine but they turned out FINE!

[Uncle Joe]

29. Yes but that was because Willie was a head of his time.

:smoke: :hippie:

[Bake]

5. Ummmm ... have you SEEN Faith Hill?

And I'm told the ladies sorta like Tim, too.

Plus, they were HUGE stars before Katrina happened. Country radio may be ridiculously conservative, but they know what sells.

Bake

[Doctor_J]

13. Chicks were huge before speaking out too

and I would do Natalie, though she's not in Faith's league looks-wise.

[Bake]

14. The Chicks were "new rising stars" then

One solid album, but not huge. Not headliners at that point. Tim & Faith have been headliners for a long time, long before Katrina, which is the issue that seems to have set off their activist tendencies.

Bake

[LSK]

18. not true, we are talking 2003 here

They were huge at the time. They were up and coming in the mid 90s. Not 2003.

[ElizabethDC]

20. No, the Chicks were huge by 2003

They had already had the albums "Fly" and "Wide Open Spaces," both of which were hugely successful, and they had just launched a similarly successful 3rd album (which already had hits from "Long Time Gone" and "Landslide" before the shit hit the fan.

[Bake]

21. Then I stand corrected on the albums

But I still contend they were not in the same league, star-power wise, as McGraw and Hill. Reasonable minds may differ.

Bake

[ieoeja]

24. Only Elvis had sold more records than the Dixie Chicks.

So you're right. McGraw and Hill are in a completely different league than Elvis and the Chicks. See post #23.

[Bake]

33. How many top 10 records had the Chicks had?

Compared say, to Tim and Faith? And how long had they been around at that point? Go ahead, I'm sure you know.

By the way, I'm not particularly a fan of either McGraw or Hill -- I thought "Indian Outlaw" was flat-out racist, e.g., and Faith is a little too taken with herself. But I'm willing to acknowledge that a lot of people like them AND that they have a lot of friends in Nashville.

Bake

[ieoeja]

39. Actually, I don't know. I just know they were already #2 in all-time record sales. n/t

[ieoeja]

23. Not new. And not just one album.

They had several albums before that. In fact, they had already reached #2 in all time album sales out of Nashville (Elvis being #1). And this despite having had their second album boycotted by many retailers and country record stations.

Most people know nothing about that last bit. This is the SECOND time the Dixie Chicks faced a country music industry boycott. The first time was over the song Goodbye, Earl. The excuse then was that a woman poisoning her abusive, stalking EX with black-eyed peas was an improper subject for a humorous country song.

In the world inhabited by people without an axe to grind, that sounds more like the ideal prototype of a humorous country song.

Basically, the country music industry had it in for the Chicks from day one for two reasons:

1. They were an all female band.

2. While the rest of Nashville was dressing country and singing disco (line-dancing), the Chicks came into town dressing city, playing bluegrass and outsold every other act in town. They made the country music executives look like fools and threatened to undo their plan to expand country music's appeal to a broader audience (through disco/line-dancing).

[OzarkDem]

37. I love Goodbye, Earl

a great song, in some ways its like a William Faulkner, southern Gothic tale.

[soothsayer]

6. Jeez, I just assumed they were die hard repubs, ever since I stopped liking Faith HIll

If that's not why I dislike her, I wonder what it was? OR she said something anti gay maybe. It was around the time she got married. Maybe I was just jealoous, lol! But good for them, seriously. That's great.

[Change has come]

7. Corporate Radio

The Chicks were blackballed and smeared by the stations (and "boot in your ass" Toby Keith). The whole controversy was blown out of proportion by the freepers. It didn't help that the Dixie Chicks' comment came out just before the war. The fans they lost were the freeper types who can't think for themselves.

[Mike Daniels]

12. While I think the Chicks should have expected some reaction.....

"We're ashamed that Bush is from Texas" (or thereabouts) is pretty tame/innocuous as far as critical comments go.

Even then, it was Clear Channel demanding that all its properties stop playing the Chicks that made the ban appear totally over the top and heavy-handed. If Clear Channel had left it up to the individual stations and their respective listeners the DC's wouldn't have had much room for complaint as I imagine that some stations would have banned them while others would have kept them on the play list.

[Beelzebud]

8. Corporate Monopolies attacked the Chicks because at that time they were "bad for business".

Timing.

Bush was still the Hero of 9/11, in the corporate media's eyes, back when the Chicks made 1 comment about wishing he wasn't from Texas.

[leftofthedial]

15. most people (fans) don't like king george

it's the owners of the record labels, A&R people, label marketing people and radio stations that suck repuke ass

[hadrons]

17. McGraw & Hill had better timing ....

the Dixie Chicks came during 'rally around the flag' time.

[Rosemary2205]

19. Exactly, and the phrasing was better.

It's one thing to say you are disappointed in how something was handled and a whole other thing to say "I'm ashamed of my president".

[ieoeja]

25. You both hit the main reason.

Though the point I make in post #23 probably played a factor as well.

[alphafemale]

26. The Chicks were a convenient target for a frightening mindset that had gripped many people.

That was a horrid, wretched time.

To be in the 10% Club, as in - the 10 % awake and aware of the incompetence of Bush - was frightening.

I watched people go mad right in front of my eyes.
People I thought I knew seemed to check their brains at the door for awhile.

At various protests:

I was assaulted by strangers.
I was screamed at.
I was spit on.
I had stuff thrown at me from cars.
I was nearly run over by an SUV.
I had an assault rifle pointed at me from a vehicle.
I stepped between a friend and a cop who had his hand on his gun.

Things have really come around since that time.

I remember a Will Pitt writing from that time period "Wake Up You Fucking Sheep."

Man I loved that. I printed that out and left that in many places.

[mainer]

28. It was the fact they spoke overseas that got the RW mad

The RW doesn't like anyone to say anything bad about the US to them furriners.

[alphafemale]

31. I'm still foggy on HOW it was found out WHAT, was said, was said.

Wasn't it a post concert fan/group chat thing?

I mean jeez...

Talk about blowing something out proportion.

I think they were targeted because they were already seen as a strong female force.

Any excuse beat none.

[Mike Daniels]

32. The quote was mentioned in "one" review of a particular concert held overseas

Interesting enough, all other reviewers either completely missed the quote, ignored it in the review since it didn't relate to the concert as a whole or just didn't give it that much thought.

In a way, it could be the review heard around the world for the enormous effect it produced and I don't think the reviewer had any personal political axe to grind with the comment.

[alphafemale]

38. I guess I meant the escalation of the whole thing.

Of how the story snowballed. I know talk radio was behind most of it, and the same WARporations that own the talk stations own the music stations, but the "story" probably "broke" on the internet?

[Nicole]

34. Home court advantage

The Dixie Chicks bad mouthed Bush while on foreign soil.

Hill & McGraw did it while on American soil.

[a kennedy]

35. Isn't Tim from Louisiana?

:patriot:

[OzarkDem]

36. Chicks are all women

and as such, much more prone to hostility and attacks from your typical sexist country western fan.

They spoke out, didn't "stay in their place", criticized a man, something many of the C/W male fans see as a Cardinal sin.

The world of C/W music has always had strongly enforced double-standards for men and women, particularly among the execs in the recording business. Its changed some since the days of Patsy Cline, but not much. I'm sure Dolly would agree.