Are you inclined to give American Troops the benefit of the Doubt?

[bryant69]

Poll question: Are you inclined to give American Troops the benefit of the Doubt?

This is occasioned by the baffling story of US Army Private Scott Thomas Beauchamp (a good rundown of it can be found --> http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/016328.php ), who reported some misdeeds by American troops. The events he reported may not have happened or they might have happened, but the army has successfully covered it over with a smoke screen. I lean to the second explanation, myself.

Anyway I was curious though, what your tendency is when faced with this kind of story? Oh and I'm asking about your first impression; I gather most if not all of us would take the time to research the story to firm up our conclusion or be proven wrong (depending on how it goes).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[uppityperson]

1. People are people and just because they hold a particular job doesn't change that.

Adding in the situation of a traumatic place/situation, I believe that bad things are done, that the goodness of those who have that goodness can be diluted with cynicism and stuff that is not typical. So, to answer, I am skeptical of it all. Simpler, no.

[lvx35]

8. Well said. They are our Friends and neighbors, put into a crazy situation.

I mean war is always crazy, with Bush as Commander in Chief even more so. What would I do after being told to drive around IED infested roads with no clear mission for months on end?

[TahitiNut]

2. Anyone who thinks they can do better should enlist.

(Boy, that'll tweak the NIMBY fair-weather-democrats.)

These are our neighbors, our children, our brothers and sisters, our relatives, and people who've put their civil liberties in our trust. They are doing the dirty work of our political system.

[atreides1]

10. Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirt!!!!!!

They didn't put anything into my hands, they put their lives into the hands of a psychopath and his malicious political party that only requires them for photo ops, but looks the other way when things like the Walter Reed or VA fiasco's come into the light.

They are there of their own volition, they can tell their chain of command to go get f***ed and refuse to do it anymore, but like robots they follow orders without question and continue to die
for a political system that was rigged back in 2001.

Yes, I know they "volunteered", but guess what they didn't volunteer to get intentionally screwed, they volunteered to defend this country and to support and defend the US Constitution, so far I don't feel like they are doing the job!

I didn't ask them to fight this BS war, and after seeing what some US troops are capable of, and how the military tried to spin and cover at first, any benefit of the doubt that I may have given them is long gone.

I did my time and volunteered and served in Desert Storm, and compared to what's going on now, that was a drop in the bucket, but we had a specific mission and we accomplished it. It was never our mission to remove Saddam from power, we liberated the country of Kuwait and returned it to the Kuwaiti people.

[sailor65]

15. What?

"They are there of their own volition, they can tell their chain of command to go get f***ed and refuse to do it anymore, but like robots they follow orders without question...."

Which version of the UCMJ manual were you issued? They can tell their command no such thing.

"Yes, I know they "volunteered", but guess what they didn't volunteer to get intentionally screwed, they volunteered to defend this country and to support and defend the US Constitution, so far I don't feel like they are doing the job!"

They are doing the job and more. Stop casting your anger at the admin onto the troops. Their mission is far tougher than the one we had back then. Iraq Part 1 was NOTHING compared to what they are fighting now. I wonder how you'd hold up in this one?

"I didn't ask them to fight this BS war, and after seeing what some US troops are capable of, and how the military tried to spin and cover at first, any benefit of the doubt that I may have given them is long gone."

Your attitude about your Brothers is piss poor to say the least.

[uppityperson]

17. Yes they can. Then they can go to prison.

They can. There are consequences of course, but they can.

[sailor65]

19. That's not a solution

You can't suggest that troops en masse begin defying orders and head for prison. The UCMJ doesn't allow for the troops to decide that an order to take a town is "Unlawful" just because dispatches are coming from home saying that * lied. So they defy and end up in prison....then what? Professional warriors in prison serve America how exactly? Fix the problem at the top where the problem is, and stop suggesting that our troops are somehow to blame for not defying orders.

[uppityperson]

20. I'm not saying they are to blame, and yes, it is a solution.

what if you gave a war and no one came? What if they all, or enough, refused? Chaos? Yes. Change? Yes.

[sailor65]

13. Thank you for that

I, like so many others, served and served hard.

Regardless of the politicos pulling the strings, my Brothers in Arms will always get the benefit of the doubt from me. These men and women are placed in inhuman and impossible situations over and over, and we don't have the right to expect superhuman responses over and over.

[coco77]

3. Just because someone puts on a uniform it doesn't change ..

who they really are. In some cases, the uniform gives them more of a chance to act out.

[bryant69]

4. One could argue that choosing to put on the uniform implies a

certain type of person.

Bryant

[sarge43]

5. And what type of person is that?

And on what experience do you base your opinion?

[bryant69]

9. I do not have any military experience if that is what you are asking

My brother was a marine.

I don't have an opinion one way or another on what sort of person might join the military.

Bryant

[uppityperson]

6. one could argue that regardless of the certain type of person, WAR changes them

war is hell

[Solon]

7. That depends largely on WHY they put it on...

Some people put on the uniform to "kill some Arabs", others for college money, or to serve their country. The fact is that, under the circumstances, even those only in it for the college money can turn into monsters given the circumstances. Some were assholes going into the military, some are made assholes while in the military, and some come out, if not unscathed, physically or mentally, at least with a conscience left.

[Uben]

11. Hey!

There are 160,000 troops in Iraq. If one tenth of one percent did something they aren't supposed to, that means there are 160 of them. Of course there will be misdeeds, the shear number of soldiers over there dictate that. We have to hope that the U.S. military's system of justice will punish those who carry out these heinous acts. Now that they are accepting gang members in the military, there will probably be an increase in such incidents.

That said, I respect all who go to foreign lands in defense of our nation, despite what I might think of said conflict. I won't pass judgement one way or the other on any of them. That's the military's job. I just shake their hand and thank them for their service. I even buy dinner for some when I see them in uniform or know they are, or have, served overseas. Not everyone can afford to do so. I can, and it makes me feel good, and it let's them know we care.

I wish there was a a list of the soldiers that live in my area serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. I can do more to help some of them if I knew who they were. I send art supplies to soldiers in Iraq and in turn, they have sent me items they have made or painted or have drawn. I really cherish these things along with the pictures they send. One soldier, I do not know his name, did a charcoal portrait of my wife from a picture we sent. It was awesome! I am told he drew it while he was in detention for breaking some rule. They requested colored wire, it was sent, and they sent me a scorpion they had made with the wire. It was so cool! They give these to the kids over there. One guy carved me a set of three camels.

So, to answer your question, I would have to say yes, I do give them the benefit of a doubt. They are innocent until proven otherwise by the military.

[sailor65]

16. Hear Hear

And the UCMJ punishes wrongdoers far harder than any civilian court.

[stillcool]

12. I am suspicious...

of everything...but in the post Pat Tillman world, I would take almost any view as more trustworthy than that of government or payed to say media. As far as what takes place in a war zone...I would be hard pressed to find any evidence of a past war that did not include the same behavior. I think it's disingenuous for anyone to judge the morality, or criminality in a particular brand of reality they know nothing of. The only solution I have to war crimes, is to forbid the crime of war.

[NYVet]

14. I don't believe that it happens on the scale that he wrote it did...

And when it does happen, those who commit the acts are quickly found out and are dealth with through the UCMJ

[bryant69]

18. Yeah like the Pat Tillman "Friendly Fire" incident

That was quickly dealt with openly and cleanly.

Bryant