PC Mag chief editor tires of Windows Vista

[billbuckhead]

PC Mag chief editor tires of Windows Vista

PC Magazine editor-in-chief Jim Louderback today chose to express his frustration with Microsoft's Windows Vista operating system as he passed down the publication's leadership to his successor, Lance Ulanoff. Louderback said he is tired of Vista's broken features, and that he may even switch to Linux moving forward. "The litany of what doesn't work and what still frustrates me stretches on endlessly," Louderback wrote. The former editor-in-chief, who is assuming a position as CEO of a company called Revision3 to experience a change in scenery, lists numerous buggy features in Vista which include sleep mode, unreliable networking, and general slugishness when compared to the older Windows XP in many areas.
--------------------snip--------------------------------
<http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/08/17/pc.mag.chief.vista/>

And this is one of America's premier non military products?

[wtmusic]

1. It would suck to have a magazine about Windows PCs, and have to rely

on the unreliable.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

2. Every other version of Windows sucks.

It's a trend.

[DarkTirade]

31. XP is pretty good in every arena except for backwards compatibility.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

101. I guess I should clarify

Windows 98 was good, ME bad.....XP good.....Vista....bad.

[BlooInBloo]

147. NT good. 2000 good. 2003 pretty good....

... I'm no MS fan, but fair is fair.

[SayWhatYo]

157. OS/2

[BlooInBloo]

160. Yes, many non-Microsoft OS' are/were good. What's your point?

[SayWhatYo]

168. No point at all. Just like to bring up OS/2 whenever I get a chance. It's like a fetish.

[BlooInBloo]

171. heh! Fair enough!

[Jackpine Radical]

169. DR DOS...

Until Win 3.1 killed it with deliberate compatibility sabotage.

[Deja Q]

194. No bloody way.

The SIQ helped kill it off. x(

[burrowowl]

174. Yes NT was good and OS/2

but the rest are kludges.

[BlooInBloo]

175. Why do people keep bring up non-MS OS' in this convo?

:rofl:

[burrowowl]

177. Because it worked

Yes, it was of IBM's ventures into software, they mainly sell iron.

[Occulus]

179. Linux was mentioned in the OP

I'd switch to linux exclusively and never look back if more game developers supported OpenGL.

Sadly, it looks like id software are the only ones willing to do that consistently. Who knows- maybe Unreal Tournament 3/UT2K7?8?9? will run natively in linux.

Screw Transgaming's Cedega. I bought the game; I shouldn't also have to buy a working binary as well.

[Up2Late]

178. Bad doesn't even begin to describe WindowsMe!

It Suuuuuucks!

I'm still running it on my secondary computer (don't ask) and even after about 40+ bug fixes, it still locks up several times a week.

[slampoet]

111. and midi and digital sound in general is pretty bad.

But not unacceptable.

XP does get a passing grade

[Cruzan]

98. I'm quite happy with WIndows 2000 Professional

My only complaint are some of the apps out there, e.g. for video editing, that have stopped supporting it.

[mainegreen]

191. 2000 Professional is a great OS.

Perhaps the best desktop OS they released.

[DainBramaged]

122. Your opinion I disagree wholeheartedly

Of ALL of the Windows systems I've used going ALL the way back to 3.0 (yes 3.0) XP Pro is the least troublesome, most reliable and user friendly system Microsoft every made.I run a shop with 63 Win XP Pro systems and a Windows 2000 Server server. Easy and cheap to fix, easy to update, no problems with software compatibility.


So, you were saying, or are you simply an Apple fan being a jerk?

[Exiled in America]

136. umm..every other version means XP was good and Vista sucks.

Not sure how to read what he wrote any other way.

So, you were saying, or are you simply a Windows fan that can't read?

[DainBramaged]

138. I don't talk to Mac wacks

[SayWhatYo]

158. lol....

You own the Windows System Administration Bible and worship it, huh? :P

[alfredo]

3. Linux might lack some of the goodies in Windows, but it is a lot of fun

and very stable. It just works.

[tomreedtoon]

23. But aren't the weekly updates to Linux a bitch?

I mean, every week they change the kernel, right? And that invalidates all your software and you have to reinstall everything and hopes it works. And then, next week, the same thing.

Maybe ISP's can do that for servers, where there's many backup machines and they can always take a computer down to completely rebuild it, but that's too much work for a normal person. Linux is like a model train setup; the only people who really love it don't mind working on it every spare moment to make it work.

The only version of Linux that works reliably is the one inside Macintosh OS X, because unlike what you guys call "real" Linux, they don't keep changing the hell out of it.

ON EDIT: I have a "sawtooth" Mac running OS X Tiger and four Windows machines; three with XP Pro and a laptop with 2000. And the only "software" problem I've had was with that crappy Norton Systemworks which slowed up one of my machines.

[Sanctified]

25. I have rarely had that issue.

It has been a very rare occasion that I had software or hardware that did not work after a Kernel update. And when it does happen it's usually my onboard wireless stops working till I can install the drivers using ndiswrapper.

[Xenotime]

149. BUT why should you....?!?

Onboard wireless should not stop. That is one problem with Linux.

[Solon]

47. Sounds like you have no clue what you are talking about...

First things first, OS X is based, roughly, on a version of BSD, a hybrid Mach microkernel, called XNU, and NextStep, NOT LINUX! As far as Linux itself, I get kernel updates rarely, maybe once a month, maybe less, it depends. Most updates involve programs I installed through the Debian package system, like Firefox, etc. Most updates download and install themselves in a few minutes, 99% of the time, it doesn't involve so much as a reboot. When I do get a kernel update, same thing, except I have to reboot to use the new kernel, if that kernel doesn't work for some reason(only happened once, several years ago), I rebooted and chose the previous kernel to boot from, no problem.

As far as working on it "every spare moment" to get it to work right, uhm, no I don't think so. In fact, the only major problem I had wasn't with Linux, but Windows, it completely destroyed, for some reason, my partition table and bootloader, for both itself and Linux. Thank goodness I had a Linux live CD, it took about a half hour, but I was able to repair the partition table, I wiped Windows from this computer, and I'm not going back. Hell, I was having problems with some games I wanted to run under Windows XP that refused to run, like Baldur's Gate, which kept on crashing on load, yet it runs just fine under Linux with WINE.

As far as "reinstalling everything" when the kernel is updated, that's a bunch of bullshit.

[liberaldemocrat7]

125. I will switch to Linux when they make a standalone video program

that recognizes my usb video camera and my Winnov video board too and that Windows users can use a windows version of that video program so I can connect to a windows user on video one to one without servers.

Not until then.

[Solon]

137. That's a driver and hardware manufacturer issue, not necessarily a Linux issue...

The fact of the matter is that any hardware that doesn't have compatible drivers will not work, whether its Windows, Linux, or OS X. The other problem is that the manufacturers of the hardware may not bother to design drivers for Linux, or even worse, not release the specifications so that others can make the drivers for the hardware. Some companies, like Nvidia, are good with drivers on Linux, in fact, 3D performance on my computer is better under Linux than Windows. ATI, on the other hand, has drivers that, while they work, aren't exactly the best.

Again, without the specifications, no one else can create, improve or replace said drivers without using reverse engineering, which is a slow, arduous process. In any event, other than that, tomreedtoon's post about Linux was completely inaccurate.

[Xenotime]

150. I just wish there was a good video editing program for Linux.

Another short fall for the OS. It has so much potential.

[kenny blankenship]

92. Reinstall everything, on Linux ??? BWAHAAHHAHAHAHA. silly Windows git

I mean, every week they change the kernel, right? And that invalidates all your software and you have to reinstall everything and hopes it works. And then, next week, the same thing.

That's some stupid Windows bullshit you got stuck in your ear somewhere. You're probably to used to the smell to notice.

Yes, WINDOWS system reinstall/restore will FORCE you to reinstall application software.

Linux kernel development changes do not mean that your kernel is updated nor does it mean that your kernel needs to be updated. You use the kernel packages that your distribution provides - and that version will be updated infrequently, only as needed. Revised kernels from your distribution do not break anything as a rule. You can compile the very latest kernel release from the kernel dev team, if you so desire. And that is unlikely to break anything either. I have done so many MANY times! Also I have very often retained locally compiled programs across installations of new versions of the Linux operating system (total version upgrade), even across installations of different Linux distributions (install from scratch). I keep them along with some commercial binaries on a disk partition that I don't reformat during the upgrade/install, (same thing with user home directories) - and they just work.

Reinstall everything, on Linux ? Oh man that's funny!

[tomreedtoon]

107. It's the laughs I've heard from everyone AROUND Linux people.

Much as Windows has problems, it is relatively stable. Linux machines are jalopies whose owners have to keep tinkering with the damn things so they'll start and run.

Yes, I could dam a stream to run a generator so I wouldn't have to rely on an evil corporation for electric power. But I don't want to go through that work. I don't mind paying the local electric utility to supply me power. Same thing with Linux vs. Windows.

[kenny blankenship]

108. That's ridiculous.

[alcibiades_mystery]

128. That is such fucking bullshit I can't even believe it

But then, you seem to be a straight up know-nothing about Linux, so it doesn't really matter what know-nothing rumors you choose to invent.

[slowry]

142. ROFL - what?!?!?!?! n/t

[SayWhatYo]

161. hehe

[BlooInBloo]

162. I'm a Windows guy, and even *I* know that's just out-and-out stupid.

[Greyhound]

185. Possibly the biggest load of crap I've ever read (outside the reich-wing cesspool) n/t

[alfredo]

94. with Linux, the updates don't have to be applied, and as I remember, it

was no big thing. The only problem I ever had was dealing with RPM's and their dependency hell, but that can be avoided by using Debian style package managers.
I haven't kept up with RPM's, I found that I can run the Linux/Unix apps on OSX because they have been ported to OSX or can be run using FINK.

OSX is not Linux, it is UNIX

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/

[Yael]

102. apt-get Rocks...

[alfredo]

104. It sure does. I used to use it quite a bit when I was running FINK.

[backscatter712]

141. ++ It makes updates painless.

For those new to Linux, I recommend an apt-based distribution like Ubuntu.

The updating is all handled with a nice GUI tool like synaptic, so you don't have to deal with the command line if you don't want to. It takes care of dependencies automatically, and updates automatically, including the kernel.

And no, updating the kernel does not normally break things. It is recommended that you reboot after a kernel update, but it all should Just Work afterwards.

[qnr]

109. Changed kernels in no way invalidate your software. There is also

no need to change kernels if you have no desire to do so, unless there is a potential security issue that might impact you. Some kernel changes very rarely might impact drivers for some of your hardware, but if you don't need the change, you don't need to include it, even if you update the kernel. Generally, there will be many many months of discussion before an item that you might be using is totally removed from a kernel. I'm still running Linux 1.2 on one of my computers, which happens to be a 20 year old Atari.

Have you ever used Linux? I've had uptimes higher than 420 days.... hardly indicative of an operating system that needs to be taken down for a rebuild constantly.

The Macintosh doesn't use Linux, it uses BSD.

[Nomad559]

126. Hey, Terry Is here

I suspect that Commie Pinko Dirtbag told you that I was at It again. :evilgrin:

So tell me Terry, what's up with these brain comments that you and Dirtbag use with people that give an opinion you don't agree with?

:)

[qnr]

127. It's an opinion. At that time you happened to be posting quite a lot of provocative material and not

responding to valid questions. Haven't been following your OS related posts recently, so I don't know if that is still the case.

Wasn't a matter of not agreeing with your position, I disagree with the position of many people. It was more the fact that you were acting like a "flame bot" during that period, which appeared to be nothing better than trolling. Hit and run provocative posts. Perhaps it has changed, perhaps it hasn't, I lost interest a long time ago. This doesn't mean I think you're a bad person, just a personal view regarding your OS related posts, though I've never lost interest in the general posts found elsewhere.

Edit: s/following your posts/following your OS related posts/

[Nomad559]

131. Oh I see

So MY posting of articles or opinions that differed from your own opinion was provocative.

It's funny how you accuse me of acting like a "flame bot" when you were the person that replied to my Firefox opinion with ... "
If you're braindead and can't string two sentences together"

:eyes:

[qnr]

132. Yes, but if you're honest, you'll admit that wasn't unprovoked. Whatever, as

I said, I could not care less about your OS related posts these days.

[Nomad559]

134. I have always been honest

here on DU, but the Issue I have with some others here on DU Is that they do not respect the honest opinions of others.

And as we all know, someone that does not respect the honest opinion of others, Is not a honest person.

:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

145. So you REALLY think I called you a Republican in that comment?

Or do you actually have comprehension capabilities but are running with the spin anyway?

BTW, qnr appeared here on his own volition. Feel free to disbelieve that too if you want.

[Xenotime]

151. It happened using VMware ALL THE DAMN time...

I would have to rebuild the software with the new headers everytime there was a kernel update.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

156. Ahhh, I understand now. A few programs (VERY few, actually) come with their own device drivers

And such drivers have to match the kernel version. Sloppy on the part of the software packager (VMware in this case), I think.

I once created a script that automatically recompiled NVidia drivers if you updated the kernel. Works peachy. I wonder why the driver makers didn't think of that themselves.

[SayWhatYo]

159. umm, can't say anything you said is accurate.

Try running it for a bit if you can get a PC... You might actually like it.

[Irreverend IX]

182. Uh, no.

The Linux kernel is not updated every week, and when it is updated most distros will automatically update it and start using it automatically the next time you reboot the machine. I've been using Linux for years and nothing ever "just stops working." With Ubuntu, most of your software will be automatically installed from online repositories, and all updates will be done automatically by the system, with the user only needing to enter their password and hit a button to confirm the installation of updated packages.

Also, Mac OSX is not based on Linux, it is based on a version of the BSD operating system, which is somewhat similar to Linux (both are descendants of the Unix OS).

[The Vinyl Ripper]

4. My currrent machine with XP is good for three or four years minimum..

By then Linux will be more than well sorted out enough to be a replacement for just about anyone.

Buh bye, Bill..

[tridim]

5. Bill is a good guy, he's retiring next year to run the Gates foundation.

[Deja Q]

79. Bill's business history is replete with events that prove he's only interested in his profiting.

And for a man who loathes piracy, and a big member of the Business Software Alliance, it seems odd he's being lenient toward China - a country with a HUGE piracy problem.

Never mind his quest for unlimited H1Bs, and how well over 2 years ago he told everybody how the dollar was going to go down. (Bloomberg.com has the best article on that.) As offshoring has helped contribute to the falling dollar, convince me again how great Mr. Gates is?

[Help me help Earth]

129. Have you given $25 billion to vacinate the worlds poor children? nt

[The Vinyl Ripper]

155. I'm sure he'll have to tighten his belt after that outlay..

A surprising number of rapacious businessmen get a conscience in their later years.

Andrew Carnegie springs to mind immediately.

I spent a lot of time in a Carnegie library as a child.

[regnaD kciN]

6. Microsoft: "Who cares what you think?"

"It's not like you're going to be able to buy a new computer with WinXP anymore, and WinXP support will be ending in a few years. After a while, Vista will be all that's available and all new software will be written to work best on it. Linux? MacOS? Fine. Switch over -- if enough of you do so, they may actually grab 10% of the market. We'll be quite happy with the remaining 90%, thank you very much."

We don't care. We don't have to care. We're Microsoft.

[porphyrian]

7. Microsuck seems to think we should be happy beta testing their shit for full price.

However, they are wrong.

[Deja Q]

113. Quite.

I've observed a few nitpicks in how certain apps are laid out, problems with activation, and other things - there are better ways to achieve what they are doing without having to ditch the designs, but these are improvements and thoughts I'm not going to give them free advice about.

Indeed, Vista has a built-in mechanism to report errors and app conditions to Microsoft. I disabled that because (1) it adds to resource usage, and (2) I will not be their guinea pig. Microsoft gets away with this treatment of customers solely because of their size. A small business wouldn't last long doing the same tactics they use...

[porphyrian]

118. They are the true pirates. - n/t

[Rick Myers]

8. Vista is SHIT and Micro$oft knows it!!!

Win XP Pro SP 2 os the only stable Micro$oft OS!!! It's that or Linux!!!

:grr:

[liberati]

61. Flashback to me in the year 2002:

"XP is shit and Micro$oft knows it!!! Win 2000 os is the only stable Micro$oft OS!!! It's that or Linux!!!"

Seriously, I hated XP when it first came out too. But eventually Microsoft fixed everything and XP works fine now. Give Vista a couple of years and it'll be fine too. It sucks that MS releases buggy software, but it's been that way since Windows 1.0 way back in 1985 (and I remember hating that one too! :))

[Nomad559]

9. :- )

Windows


Apple

:evilgrin:

[burrowowl]

176. Cartoon is too funny!

I don't have sex with my Mac but it is sexier and more (re)productive than Windoze!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[bullimiami]

10. its bloated but it works fine on my laptop.

i dislike it the least of any windows from the day to day use point of view.
we have a studio full of xp and 2000 on workstations and video editing systems and neither of those is any super gem either in features or stability.

[MrScorpio]

11. He should have bought a Mac

Just saying

[qdemn7]

12. Right, if he wanted to join the Mac "Cult"

BTW, I hear Scientology is accepting applicants. :bounce:

[Nomad559]

13. You must have read

The Cult Of Apple
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/IndustryInfo/story?id=2804821&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

What I'm talking about are the thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of people out there whose relationship with Apple is obsessive and, one would think, unhealthy -- the people who, like crazed sports fans, will fight to the death defending a team that doesn't even know their names.

For years, the standing joke about these folks has been that they've "drunk the Kool-Aid," or been trapped in the black hole of the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Zone, or that they are the geek version of Scientologists.

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You know what I have met people like this

and their cultish behavior was\is actually destructive

[Elwood P Dowd]

22. You are posting to someone with a cultish behavior.

Nomad has hundreds of posts on DU insulting Apple owners. He hates us with a cultish passion.

[Nomad559]

24. So says Mr. Hypocrite

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1595848#1596099

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Nah you misunderstand me

I have met members of a "cult" who were \ are to this day quite destructive

And they give me the shivers since I have to deal with them on a regular basis

You would never actually threaten my well being

They have

Oh and let me add, their behaviour does not involve a computer OS either... even if some are quite the computer geeks... it is just that the description in the article reminded me of THOSE folks

[jgraz]

17. Yes, that crazy cult of people who want decent UI design and apps that don't suck

Those people are nuts :crazy:

[Nomad559]

19. China Thanks You For Your Support

iPod maker admits breaking Chinese labor laws; says Apple approved sweatshop labor
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/9988

"Apple Computer is getting into a deep PR mess over the antics of one of its Chinese partners," Nick Farrell reports for The Inquirer.

"After denying that it was running a sweatshop that would be familiar to Charles Dickens, Apple's Ipod manufacturer, Foxconn has finally admitted that it broken Chinese labour laws," Farrell reports.

:eyes:

[jgraz]

21. Non-sequitor. What do iPod labor practices have to do with the quality of the OS?

So Apple deserves some brickbats for their iPod labor practices. How does that excuse MicroShit from ripping off their users with substandard crap for years? How does that change the fact that OS X is a vastly superior product?

And, BTW, if you don't want to support the made-in-China iPod, you can always buy a Zune. :rofl:

Oh wait, Zunes are made in China, too. Oh well, I'm sure Steve Ballmer is out there personally insuring that no workers are exploited. :eyes:

[Nomad559]

27. I know that the Zune Is made In China

Microsoft to build Zune plant In China
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=943286


If OS X Is a vastly superior product, why does It require so many more patches than Windows?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x298278

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x301481

:)

[jgraz]

34. Apple's finally getting enough marketshare to attract serious hackers

However, I reject both of your implications that a) Windows is somehow more secure than OS X and b) security is the only measure of OS quality.

We've seen for years how Windows has been exploited by a variety of hackers. Aside from chronic poor design, the main security flaw in Windows is its popularity. It's like a huge field of cloned corn -- one virus and all the plants die.

OS X is just starting to become attractive to hackers, due to its rising marketshare. But even with all the recent patches, OS X remains a far better user and developer system than Windows. I work on both daily, and the amount of pain that Windows requires you to endure is almost beyond belief. OS X has its flaws, but at least it isn't poorly designed, full of hidden gotchas and butt-ugly to look at.

[LeftCoast]

36. Not to mention that Nomad's claim of more patches for Apple has been

thoroughly debunked multiple times.

Nevertheless, he continues to post his 'facts'.

[jgraz]

38. Well, there is that

Personally, I don't pay much attention to the security patches. I know the guys who work on the OS X kernel and they're some of the best and smartest engineers I've ever worked with.

I also know quite a few MicroSoft engineers and...welll...let's just say there's a reason MicroSoft hired them and Apple didn't.

[Nomad559]

42. Oh Really

I have been thoroughly debunked multiple times.

How so? ... Prove It, or do we just have to take your word on that.

Operating System Vulnerability Scorecard
http://blogs.technet.com/security/archive/2007/08/16/july-2007-operating-system-vulnerability-scorecard.aspx

:)

[jgraz]

46. Read his methodology

Once again, he's counting "cumulative updates" fixing god knows how many bugs in one shot. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison, and a poor one at that. You and I both know that some of the most serious Windows flaws have not been found and fixed by MicroSoft -- they've been revealed through nasty viruses that spread through their broken OS.

[LeftCoast]

49. You don't remember Lithos handing you your ass?

No? Well, you never acknowledged being proved wrong there either.

Funny thing is, you've yet again shifted the discussion from the OP.

BTW, I searched and couldn't find the specific post so take that as a 'win' if you want. LOL

[jgraz]

57. Are you perhaps referring to this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2708548&mesg_id=2708735

Your search criteria is incomplete, sloppy and essentially comparing apples to oranges. For instance your OS X search includes products such as Cisco IOS and other items not part of or related to the actual Apple OS. And Linux having multiple Vendors will show multiple products for the same bug - ie it gets hit several times for each.

What also is missing is the "patch" rate by the vendor; the attention they are giving to patching things which is a problem Microsoft is known for where critical exploits remain open months if not years later and only grudgingly addressed.

Kind of like what I said, hmmm?

[LeftCoast]

59. Why, yes! That is exactly the thread I was thinking of!

Thank you! I was apparently searching in the wrong forum.

:hi:

[Nomad559]

60. I remember that thread very well

It's just that you never saw the conclusion to that, the truth Is, I made an ass out of many people on that, I would say more, but I am still working on the video on that subject.

With every passing day, I get more material for my little video project.

:)

[jgraz]

64. You do realize we can read the entire thread, don't you?

You made one post on the faux-security issue and Lithos smacked you down. That was pretty much the entire exchange.


Oh, and I don't know what this mysterious video project is, but make sure you edit it on a Mac. You wouldn't want to lose any data to viruses or the Blue Screen of Death.

[Nomad559]

70. Do you have any Idea

that you have no clue to what this video project Is about.

:)

[Richard Steele]

133. Yes, really. Just like your pathetic claim that Apple donates more $$$ to Repubs.

[LeftCoast]

63. Nomad subject change

#2

[LeftCoast]

62. Nomad subject change

#1

[Dora]

144. The only mac-related cult I know of is the "I hate Mac users" cult.

Give it up already. Some people drive cars with a standard transmission, other people drive cars with an automatic transmission. Do those who drive automatics call those who drive standards the Clutch Cult?

What's the BFD whether a person is using a Mac or a Windows based system?

:bounce:

[Richard Steele]

183. Same here. It's bizarre- a real cult that exists to deride an imaginary one.

Some people are just :silly:, I guess.

[ecstatic]

186. well reading certain posts, is it any surprise why?

Mac and Linux users alike are so defensive to the point of unnecessary nastiness. I saw a guy upthread make a few simple/basic comments about his Linux experience and everyone jumped on how stupid his post was, but nobody could give any real suggestions. I've used Mac and Linux both. They're OK, but I'm a lazy user and I like to use as many free (popular, not obscure) programs as possible, so that's why I prefer Windows right now.

[Nomad559]

14. Hey MrScorpio

Did you know that some fool at Apples C4 Mac Developer Conference said that Black People Don't Use Macs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x301550

:crazy:

[LeftCoast]

28. I love how you take an article about one person's dissatisfaction with Vista

and make it all about how terrible Apple is. Seriously, now that Rove is retiring you might wanna put in your application.

[Nomad559]

29. I love how the Apple people

take one persons "opinion" about Vista, to talk about how terrible Windows Is.

Did you notice that all my posts are based on facts?

:)

[LeftCoast]

30. I notice you always claim your posts are based on facts

However, the 'facts' you cite have little or nothing to do with the OP.

And that sir (or madam), is a fact.

[jgraz]

39. "based on facts"

Has there ever been a more telling turn of phrase? Yes, Nomad, your posts are based on facts. It's the stuff you add to those facts that we have a problem with.

[Nomad559]

41. The truth Is

none of the Apple people here have ever been able to challenge the facts of my post, and why Is that.

Because you can not argue with the truth with bullshit.

:)

[jgraz]

44. I'll be happy to challenge them: your "facts" on security patches are bullshit

Apple releases many more security patches because their patches are much more fine-grained. In the article you point to, Apple's patches address single security holes in individual apps.

Compare that with the list of security fixes from one XP Service Pack:

MS04-025 (867801) - Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer
•
MS04-024 (839645) - Vulnerability in Windows Shell Could Allow Remote Code Execution
•
MS04-023 (840315) - Vulnerability in HTML Help Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS04-022 (841873) - Vulnerability in Task Scheduler Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS04-018 (823353) - Cumulative Security Update for Outlook Express
•
MS04-016 (839643) - Vulnerability in DirectPlay Could Allow Denial of Service
•
MS04-015 (840374) - Vulnerability in Help and Support Center Could Allow Remote Code Execution
•
MS04-014 (837001) - Vulnerability in the Microsoft Jet Database Engine Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS04-013 (837009) - Cumulative Security Update for Outlook Express
•
MS04-012 (828741) - Cumulative Update for Microsoft RPC/DCOM
•
MS04-011 (835732) - Security Update for Microsoft Windows
•
MS04-007 (828028) - ASN.1 Vulnerability Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS04-004 (832894) - Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer
•
MS04-003 (832483) - Buffer Overrun in MDAC Function Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-051 (813360) - Buffer Overrun in Microsoft FrontPage Server Extensions Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-049 (828749) - Buffer Overrun in the Workstation Service Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-048 (824145) - Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer
•
MS03-045 (824141) - Buffer Overrun in the ListBox and in the ComboBox Control Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-044 (825119) - Buffer Overrun in Windows Help and Support Center Could Lead to System Compromise
•
MS03-043 (828035) - Buffer Overrun in Messenger Service Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-041 (823182) - Vulnerability in Authenticode Verification Could Allow Remote Code Execution
•
MS03-040 (828750) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer
•
MS03-039 (824146) - Buffer Overrun in RPCSS Service Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-034 (824105) - Flaw in NetBIOS Could Lead to Information Disclosure
•
MS03-032 (822925) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer
•
MS03-030 (819696) - Unchecked Buffer in DirectX Could Enable System Compromise
•
MS03-027 (821557) - Unchecked Buffer in Windows Shell Could Enable System Compromise
•
MS03-026 (823980) - Buffer Overrun in RPC Interface Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-024 (817606) - Buffer Overrun in Windows Could Lead to Data Corruption
•
MS03-023 (823559) - Buffer Overrun in HTML Converter Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-021 (819639) - Flaw in Windows Media Player May Allow Media Library Access
•
MS03-020 (818529) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer
•
MS03-018 (811114) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Information Service
•
MS03-015 (813489) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer
•
MS03-014 (330994) - Cumulative Patch for Outlook Express
•
MS03-013 (811493) - Buffer Overrun in Windows Kernel Message Handling Could Lead to Elevated Privileges
•
MS03-010 (331953) - Flaw in RPC Endpoint Mapper Could Allow Denial of Service Attacks
•
MS03-008 (814078) - Flaw in Windows Script Engine Could Allow Code Execution
•
MS03-007 (815021) - Unchecked Buffer in Windows Component Could Cause Server Compromise
•
MS03-005 (810577) - Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-005
•
MS03-004 (810847) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer
•
MS03-001 (810833) - Unchecked Buffer in Locator Service Could Lead to Code Execution
•
MS02-072 (329390) - Unchecked Buffer in Windows Shell Could Enable System Compromise
•
MS02-071 (328310) - Flaw in Windows WM_TIMER Message Handling Could Enable Privilege Elevation
•
MS02-070 (329170) - Flaw in SMB Signing Could Enable Group Policy to be Modified
•
MS02-068 (324929) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer
•
MS02-066 (328970) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer
•
MS02-063 (329834) - Unchecked Buffer in PPTP Implementation Could Enable Denial of Service Attacks
•
MS02-062 (327696) - Cumulative Patch for Internet Information Service
•
MS02-055 (323255) - Unchecked Buffer in Windows Help Facility Could Enable Code Execution
•
MS02-050 (Q329115) - Certificate Validation Flaw Could Enable Identity Spoofing

Note that even in this long list, many of these are cumulative patches, fixing multiple bugs at once. And some of these flaws are pretty fucking scary, allowing random code execution, denial of service attacks and identity spoofing.

[Nomad559]

48. I heard that

service pack 5 "Leopard" for OS X Is going to be released In October, and that It's only going to cost $129.00

:)

[jgraz]

51. Yep, and maybe in 10 years MicroSoft will catch up to it

Tell me, has Vista finally figured out how to repaint its windows while the program is executing? :rofl:

[Nomad559]

68. I don't know

I am not using Vista

?clck

:)

[LeftCoast]

52. Facts huh?

Do 'service packs' add functionality such as virtual desktops and system backup functionality? Do they upgrade the look and feel of the desktop? Do they upgrade your email program?

True, Leopard may not be as radical a change as Vista is, but then again the odds are far better that our OS upgrade will work as advertised.

[jgraz]

53. Yeah, that was a pretty ridiculous comment, even by Nomad's low standards

Of course, what could he say once his precious "security update" myth got blown out of the water?

[LeftCoast]

55. Oh don't worry

He'll never acknowledge that he was wrong and he'll trot out these 'facts' again soon enough.

[LeftCoast]

66. Nomad subject change

#4

[DainBramaged]

123. And they are done seamlessly once proved to be compatible with current software

So what, I'd rather have Microsoft freely working on fixes than charging me for "upgrades'. NO system is flawless, but answer me this.

Why isn't Linux taught in public schools, and why have Mac's faded from the school systems? Is it because PC's are in the home and cheap? VHS meet beta.

No matter how jaded and cynical you Mac Wacks are towards PC's, who is providing cpu's for Apple now? You lost the war, you only win on style points, get over it. When the IPhone debacle bankrupts Apple, I'll sell you my Mac boat anchor to attach your IBooks too.:rofl: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[jgraz]

40. Yes, because in the entire history of Windows, only one person has complained about it

:rofl:

[Nomad559]

43. I never said that

Windows was flawless, It has It problems also.

:)

[LeftCoast]

65. Nomad subject change

#3

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

148. That's called "keeping on topic."

The opposite of which being the Non Sequitur. Which seems to have replaced the Straw Man as your favorite fallacy.

[entanglement]

37. Somebody said that at a developer conference?

:wow:

[Nomad559]

45. Yes

Sad Isn't It

:(

[LeftCoast]

67. Nomad subject change

#4(?)

Nope...number 5. *sigh*

[MrScorpio]

76. I don't give a damn what that asshole thinks

Idiots

[Nomad559]

89. I don't care for his opinion either

but It does bother me that Apple did not remove him from the Developer Conference, what does that say about Apple?

:eyes:

[Omphaloskepsis]

173. It was at C4. Apple had nothing to do with it..

It was at an annual indie developer conference. It wasn't at WWDC. And the guy who said it has been bashed all over the place for his comments. His blog can be found here.

http://www.drunkenblog.com/

[Xenotime]

152. I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble here...

But Windows only works best in one of two scenarios.

• Virtualization (Virtual PC on Windows, Parallels on Mac or Vmware on Linux)
  
• Isolation - Get the machine configured just the way you want it and never put it on the net.
  

With virtualization you can close a corrupted or infected copy, delete the file and launch a fresh drive (What I do for guests when they come over).

Or, isolation the machine never touches the Internet only for authorized software downloads and necessary updates. (My XP video machine has never seen service pack 2.)

Run in a protected environment and you will be much happier. Mac, PC, Linux...who the fuck cares?

[jgraz]

15. Very happy to give this the 5th rec

My old Apple heart loves this news.

[Cobalt-60]

16. Win 98SE is nature's perfect operating system

At least until I just can't use it any more.
I can still taste the Windows ME that was pre loaded on my laptop in 2001.
When 98SE finally goes out feet first, it's Linnux or even a switch to the MaC side for me.

[DarkTirade]

32. If you're running older programs, I'd agree with you.

95 was the first test of the new operating system style, and they didn't really get off the ground running.
98 was released a little too soon and was full of bugs.
98SE is basically regular Windows 98 with 50 to 90% the bugs fixed. :)
ME... even Gates himself admitted it was shit.
XP Nice and stable compared to the older ones... but incapable of running a lot of older programs that people still wanted to use.
Vista - Looks pretty. Haven't tried it yet. :) If I start hearing good things about it I might. Until then... I'll stick with XP or 98SE.

[Cobalt-60]

69. Oh yes, I'm a scavenger

VB 4.0, Office 2000,PSP 6.0, etc.
I love abandonware games.
I had to pass many of these on the shelf when they were new and expensive.
Now I can download them at will.
If all those republicon business men wanted to sell me some stuff, they should not have eliminated my income.
I'm an official miser for life.

[DarkTirade]

78. Well for the old DOS games I'd recommend trying out DOSBox. :)

I use it for all my old DOS games. The last version wasn't good with the higher-end stuff, if you had any 3d it would flicker and usually get no more than 10 frames per second. But the newest one seems to be a lot better. Oddly enough, when I tried my old copies of X-Wing and TIE Fighter on it, TIE Fighter worked fine but X-Wing flickered and sucked a whole lot. Despite the fact that the engine for TIE Fighter was a lot more advanced than the one for X-Wing. :) So I guess you can't tell what will work and what won't ahead of time.

[B3Nut]

99. You forgot 2000 Professional (and Server)

Probably the most rock-solid OS ever offered by Microsoft. Much better than 98, which lacks a proper task manager...essential for effective troubleshooting IMHO.

2000 can be gotten for cheap on fleabay, too. I built my wife a box running 2000 a couple years ago, it almost never needs rebooting (though lately I've been shutting all the computers down at night if I don't need a backup job to run, saves electricity.)

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[Canuckistanian]

86. Win89SE user here, too

For me, an OS is something that allows me access to my applications and monitor my system. Nothing else.

I'm still mourning the loss of DOS as a stable, unintrusive, easily predictable platform. When Windows came out, I criticized it as nothing more than a "point and drool" interface. All those pretty backgrounds, sounds, fancy menus were great, but at the cost of speed, disk space and a steep learning curve.

And I regularly use older apps that Vista would look at and say "WTF?"

[truedelphi]

106. I still use Wordstar (I figure by now the government

is using such new apps that my writing is just garble to them)

Don't know what i'll do when our Windows 95 machine goes to computer heaven. I guess i'll have to learn to partition the Windows XP and place a an old version of DOS on the partition - though I don't even know if that is possible

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Anybody wants to hear my woes?

I am consiering Linux and WINE for the games

It will be just as painful...

Hey, there is nothing wrong, just my handheld synching with my puter is spotty at best and BOTH are WIN machines

Oh and my favorite... programs from major publishers cought adobe cought, have ahem issues

I would definitely NOT recomend vista unless you want to have fun with it, head meet wall... there I said it

[LeftCoast]

35. Games usually don't work well on a virtual os

I think the whole issue of PC games is one of the few things that Windows still has going for it. There's an 'ok' selection of games for the Mac and Linux, but it still doesn't really compare. Have heard that there's a new way of programming pc games that allows them to be ported far more easily, so perhaps there's some hope for the near future.

:hi:

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Forkboy]

50. I love watching any Windows thread degenerate into Windows/Linux flame fests.

I think one of the recent ones hit around 200 replies.

It's like the gamers arguing over the XBox,PS3 or the Wii,and just as much fun to watch. :)

[LeftCoast]

54. I do apologize

It's one of the few DU pie-fights I can't help but become involved in. :)

[Forkboy]

56. No,seriously,I like them.

I couldn't tell Linux from Linus but I still get a kick out of these battles.I once got into a flame war over why Godzilla vs The Smog Monster is actually one of the best ones,so the geek battles are always fun to me. :)

[LeftCoast]

58. That must've been an epic battle

LOL

You know the funny thing about this particular pie-fight is that it's not that I'm particularly anti-windows. I just don't care to see a product that I like get slammed unfairly. Microsoft isn't all bad and neither is Apple all good. Fact is, if there were no MS I'm not sure I'd like Apple as much. One of their big advantage/disadvantages is how tightly integrated everything is. That could really be ugly if they were an 'evil' company, but having MS around seems to be keeping them fairly benign.

[Nomad559]

71. I like them also

these threads give me lots of material to use In my video, the video Is called (The Cult Of Apple).

I can also use these threads to make a point In other threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3457897

:)

[LeftCoast]

72. Just to let you know

You're starting to head over into the realm of creepy with all the cryptic talk of videoing some mythical cult of apple. I certainly hope you have no intentions of stalking people.

[Nomad559]

73. Actually

the video Is about the creepy behavior of the average Apple Cult Member, with a little bit of Linux fanboy mixed In.

I hope to have It done by the end of the year.

:)

[LeftCoast]

74. You could probably have it done faster on Apple's new version of iMovie

:hi:

Edited to add: Which, btw, will come standard with that new 'service pack' Apple's coming out with in Oct.

[Nomad559]

75. I am In no hurry

It's always a work In progress, and as I stated before, these threads give me more material for the video project.

:)

[Nomad559]

77. It seems you were wrong

about the new iMovie.

Apple Takes a Step Back With iMovie ’08
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/apple-takes-a-step-back-with-imovie-08/index.html?hp

Last week, Apple released a new version of its iLife suite—its $80 package containing iPhoto, iMovie, iWeb and GarageBand. The suite also comes preinstalled on every new Mac.
The enhancements in iPhoto, iWeb and GarageBand are great. But iMovie ‘08 is an utter bafflement.

Most people are used to a product cycle that goes like this: Release a new version every year or two, each more capable than the last. Ensure that it’s backward-compatible with your existing documents.

IMovie ‘08, on the other hand, has been totally misnamed. It’s not iMovie at all. In fact, it’s nothing like its predecessor and contains none of the same code or design. It’s designed for an utterly different task, and a lot of people are screaming bloody murder.

:)

[LeftCoast]

80. If you don't like the new features you can still use the old version

:shrug:

[Nomad559]

84. That's true

but you stated I could have done It faster on Apple's "new version" of iMovie

:)

[LeftCoast]

87. Well then let me rephrase that

You could do it faster on Apple's new or old version of iMovie.

Full disclosure: some people don't like the new version of iMovie.

[Nomad559]

91. Rephase

looks more like spin to me

:)

[SayWhatYo]

164. pwn!

[MattSh]

81. Well, goody !!!

I'll just put that on my list of things to ignore.

Problem is, I don't remember where I put that damn list!!!

[Nomad559]

85. You do that

In fact, that Is part of the problem with these Apple people, they choose to Ignore the facts.

:)

[Elidor]

82. I look forward to the finished product

There's something about an asshat documenting the many sins of his enemies, while ultimately (and unwittingly) revealing his own asshattery and douchebaggery in the process. I'm sure it'll be a smash hit.

[Nomad559]

90. Typical

Call me names, and then give a comment about a video that you know nothing about.

:eyes:

[Richard Steele]

184. I have a feeling it will be the premier piece...

...of evidence at a certain someone's commitment hearing. :silly:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

95. Wow. Pot, meet kettle.

That's like a Republican congressman accusing the Democrats of excessive partisanship.

Of course, now you'll distort what I said and accuse me of calling YOU a Republican, something anybody with more than 47 brain cells can clearly see is not the case.

[Nomad559]

96. I don't need to distort anything you say

your behavior here on DU speaks for Itself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=240x605

:eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

119. Hey, LeftCoast! Nomad subject change #6 here. -nt

[Nomad559]

110. Now what was that you were

saying about 47 brain cells?

:evilgrin:

[SayWhatYo]

163. I enjoy it too...

Don't tell anyone my dirty little secret/

[kurth]

83. Vista and Office 2007 are CRAP!!

[LeftCoast]

88. I've heard generally good reviews of Office 2007

What don't you like about it? I haven't even seen screenshots of it so far but I don't think I've read a negative review yet. Same can't be said for Vista however.

[hlthe2b]

93. ditto... first I've heard of problems with Office 2007

Perhaps the poster could elaborate as I'm considering finally moving beyond my old home Office 97 (LOL) to either Office 2003 or 2007, but am staying with Windows XP Pro.

[alcibiades_mystery]

130. I'm running Office 2007 on XP Pro SP2

It works fine. I like it actually. I don't think it's crap at all.

[B3Nut]

97. Really? Someone must have forgotten to tell my Vista/2007 machines that...

they might have decided to stop working otherwise. :P Seriously, I've had good success with Vista and Office 2007, I have 2007 on my Vista Ultimate desktop and Vista Home Premium notebook. The UI is all-new and takes some getting used to for users of previous Office versions, but all in all it's a good suite.

User Account Control is a pain in the ass sometimes, but all they did was copy a security feature than the *nixes and Mac OS X have had all along, requiring software installers to authenticate as an administrator before proceeding. Again, it's a pain in the ass, but it's a wise move and almost betrays an almost-seriousness about security that is rare but refreshing from Redmond. As a Windows tech and admin who also supports an advertising department stocked with Mac OS X boxes I welcome the change.

I still do my audio production and photographic work on an XP workstation, but my Vista box is my net/letter-writing machine and music server for my stereo, and it's been fantastic.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[Deja Q]

116. Care to explain why?

I can probably relate to some Vista gripes, but Office 2007, by and large, is actually a very worthy upgrade. And I'd been working with Office 2000 prior to.

[Xenotime]

153. Office 2007 is the best thing since version Office 4.3 running on Windows 3.1

Workflow is very natural and actually added useful features this time.

[SayWhatYo]

165. Agree about Vista from what I've used, but office 2007 - me like.

[alfredo]

100. Ziff Davis is in financial troubles, just like other print media companies.

[Deja Q]

115. The internet killed them?

What will the new order be like?

Maybe I should be writing in eBook format. :crazy:

[alfredo]

120. Video killed the radio star.

[Xenotime]

154. Jim Louderbeck jumped ship and went to work for the Digg guys....

And, he took a bunch of people with him too.

[guardian]

103. I like Vista

I bought a new computer with Vista pre-installed. I've had no problems at all. No problems installing and running my 'old' XP non_microsoft programs.

[Deja Q]

114. I like it too.

It has a few things that genuinely blow XP out of the water.

But it's got problems too.

I had to replace 2 applications; but they weren't very good, nor did their Vista-ready patches resolve anything. Namo said the patch would prevent the install routine from summarily rebooting the computer. The problem is, the patch says the app has to be installed or else it won't execute. Uh, since the patch deals with a bug in its SETUP program, their download was a waste of time.

And when I say Microsoft ExpressionWeb is a superior product, I say it legitimately. (unlike Dreamweaver 08, it processed my CSS perfectly. Ironic, as IE7 still can't yet, but nothing's perfect...)

[CRF450]

124. I love it too! You know why?

Cause I'm fuckin getting this game!

[TroubleMan]

192. You can play it on XP....unofficially

I'm playing Halo 2, which is supposed to be "Vista only." LOL....a few weeks after the game came out the underground had a way you can run it on XP. It ran like a champ on my machine.

[CRF450]

193. That is official

It'll run on XP but because XP cant use DX10, the game will run in DX9. It will still look good but theirs alot of detailed effects that will be missing. Either way I'm still getting Vista, the performance decreases are very minor and any game will still run smoothly on a good midrange to high end computer.

[The Straight Story]

139. Working well for me so far

A lot of bloat but so far no issues have popped up for me (give it time....)

Running it on an Acer laptop with 2 gigs ram so most the bloat is not noticed :)

[CK_John]

105. The trend to VM software will break the MS business model, in 2 yrs

MS will be a has been. It's time to start watching MS stock and take any profits over the next 18 months.

[SayWhatYo]

166. How will virtualization hurt them? Licenses are still required even within VMs.

I don't see it, care to explain what I'm missing? :D

[Deja Q]

112. Not my fault they shelved the original longhorn code and restarted in 2004...

And for all those H1Bs and offshored jobs, Vista was a result?

Still, if the world is heading toward 'thin clients' ran by Windows Terminal Services, Linux will be a moot point.

Trouble is, a web-based infrastructure isn't one I'd rely on and for many little usage nitpicking points, it's not the best replacement... but the sticker price is less and that's what people want.

[MessiahRp]

117. I agree...

I continually have issues with several functions. Sleep mode kicks in when it shouldn't, it auto shuts down when I am doing video conversion for DVD burns, the battery, sound and network notification buttons in the right hand corner disappear all the time. I had a ton of issues with my main toolbar disappearing at first as well.

No Windows program is a treat but they should have these programs way better prepared for the market if they plan to charge so much for them and require all newer software to work with it.

Rp

[entanglement]

121. People would do well to hold off buying it till service pack 2 and a 50% price cut

:)

[DS1]

140. never get a service pack 2 for anything

They're almost always terrible, and do more damage than good

[razzleberry]

135. can I change from Vista to Win98?

bought a new computer, this year, had Vista installed.
only mod, is old Hard drive, added to
new computer.

[SayWhatYo]

170. No reason why not. Backup your stuff and do a nice clean install of 98(ewww)

[TroubleMan]

187. Make sure that all your drivers are available for 98 first.

Not all new hardware has Win98 drivers. There will be XP drivers for them. XP Pro is as solid as Win98SE.

You don't want to install 98 and find out they don't make a driver for something you have. Download all the drivers and burn them on a CD first. If you have all the drivers for Win98, then I say install whatever you feel the most comfortable with.

[maxrandb]

143. I love when computer folks talk "dirty"

It gets my "willy" hard.

"PDA's at 10 paces!!!"

[depakid]

146. "General sluggishness"

and clunkiness is what I've experienced on my laptop, particularly compared to my 2 year old PC.

If I had it to do over again, I'd have stayed with XP.

[SayWhatYo]

167. You could always go back. :D

[Clark2008]

172. We don't have any problems with it.

But, then again, I work at a computer training center - we teach people how to use this stuff.

And I LOVE Office 2007. I know a lot of people don't like change, but as someone who learned on a Mac, I happen to like the marriage between PC and Mac (I'm speaking of the interface).

[SayWhatYo]

181. Republicans don't believe in the inter-architectural marriage of computers...

[SayWhatYo]

180. Only republicans use windows....

but then again, only communists use linux, and all mac users are too high on mind altering drugs to even use their computers :P

[TroubleMan]

188. A check out lady at Office Depot said that 90% of Vista laptops are returned by her estimation.

She was probably exaggerating, but I'm sure there's a lot. Vista is pure crap right now.

Not only that, they're putting out laptops with only 512mb of memory running Vista. That means it takes 9 minutes to boot up and about 2 minutes just to open notepad - LOL. They should know the bare minimum for not pulling your hair out with Vista is 1GB of mem, and 2GB is really what you need to run anything meaty.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

190. ...whereas a machine with Fedora 6 and 512 MB of RAM just whizzes by.

And will even work just fine with 256 MB.

I don't know if Fedora 7 is as spartan. I haven't upgraded yet.

[FREEWILL56]

189. this is vista compared to xp

that guy was right as i had my pc loaded with xp pro and i loved it. please note i has 3.1, 95, and millenium in the past. i did have a problem with it as it was constantly being bombarded with viruses that got to my machine before the virus programs had cures for them. eventually this caught up with the xp pro os and the right combo finally killed it. even the virus program was dissabled by this series of viruses that hit me. i tried like hell to get to those viruses, but they stopped me at every avenue i tried and took over the os and pc. it took about 6 months before the final resting of the xp pro os i had as those viruses didn't mind my usual postings on some forums(political and scientific) and i had no vital info those criminals out there could use on the machine.
i made the big mistake of buying vista home premium and i find most of my programs are now obsoleted, incompatible, or partially dissabled. my expensive video and sound cards used to have many features that were reduced to you got sound and a picture. media player was incompatable with my audigy 2 sound and video software that creative made for vista. i dissabled media player for that as they have far fewer features on media player than they had before. add to it the slowness and amount of cpu and memory capacity needed for it spells garbage to me. i told them so straight up in a feedback i gave to them.
now they still do automatic updates that i didn't chose, but went along with because i hoped they would right their wrongs. recently my autoupdate kept failing to load 4 of the latest updates. their instructions tell me not to have any antivirus programs or spyware programs running to load these automatic updates. do you see a problem here? i did try it by dissabling the antivirus and the updates still do not load in without failing and was bogging down my startup and shutdown severely. i dissabled their autoupdates and may not bother with them again. i want xp back, but i fear they with force it into obsoletion.
i may have to go with a none microscrap software in the near future.