Question About Asking A Historical Question on DU

[fightindonkey]

Hi-

I've been having a few discussions and before I ask some posters on here who have a great deal of knowledge on the particular subject, I want to make sure of a few things. One, is there a specific area of the forums that I should post my question(s), two, how can I ensure that I'm not taken for some sort of troll?

My question deals with FDR, the Great Depression era, and communism. I've been having a heavy conversation about information that could be fact or could be plain fiction and yes, I have searched throughly on Google. So please answer the above questions before I get into this.

Thanks for help!

[Cooley Hurd]

1. I think you can ask your question in General Discussion...

:hi: Welcome to DU.

[porphyrian]

2. If you post in the wrong forum, people will let you know.

And the mods will likely move it.

Everyone who says something unpopular gets accused of being a troll. It still happens to me, and I've been here forever. No matter how polite you are or how innocuous the subject, someone will probably attack you (it might even be me :evilgrin:), especially here in GD. Just remember that what you have to say is just as valid as what anyone else does, and try not to let it get to you.

[myrna minx]

3. Welcome to DU.

:hi: GD would be the forum to start a discussion. Since I have no idea what your assertion is, I can't comment on how the board will react it it. Give it a shot. If what you are posting is urban legend or false, the knowledgeable folks around here will let you know.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. Never be afraid of asking a question here. The depth of knowledge here on DU never fails to amaze me

I can understand your concerns, since you're new here, and newbies are always, despite admonitions to the opposite, looked at with a fair amount of suspicion here. But the other thing that I've learned is that DUers are incredibly generous when anyone here asks for any kind of help or with the answer to any question. You'd probably do better asking your questions in GD, since it gets the most traffic, and more people will see it, but any forum is okay, depending on the specifics.:-)

BTW, welcome to DU, fightindonkey! We're very glad to have you with us. Ask away!:hi:

[seemslikeadream]

5. ask away and welcome to DU

:hi:


and don't be afraid of Cooley Hurd dog, he doesn't bite

[treestar]

6. Go ahead

Whenever you make an OP, there is always going to be at least one asshole questioning your even asking the question and telling you that you are immoral/stupid/racist, sexist, anti-Semitic, etc./lacking in compassion for posting it.

The only way to deal with it is to not let it get to you. Human nature is what is is, and even liberals and Democrats have that sort of judgmental and pompous, having-to-prove-I-am-better-than-others type of personality amongst them.

And welcome to DU. Most of the posters are great. :hi:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Want To Hear The Question

FDR wasn't a socialist, communist, or fascist...He was influence by Keynesian economists who wanted to conserve capitalism by tempering it and regulating it...

[hootinholler]

8. Ask away! and welcome.

:hi:

-Hoot

[fightindonkey]

9. All Right

Okay, now believe me, I have been around. I've seen the most outrageous manipulations in politics ever created, so I know some of these will be laughed at, but it's still worth getting into. Don't throw anything at me for merely trying to get to the bottom of this, and perhaps where some of these fables were concocted in the first place.

Anyway, here goes. I was having this conversation recently about FDR with let's say, not an FDR fan. Yes, you guessed it, a Republican. Anyway, I am aware of the documents that came to light not to long ago saying that there had been suspected communists in or close to the White House during Truman/FDR's run. I have never seen the actual documents myself but have read about them. I know Republicans like Coulter have tried to use these to somehow show that McCarthy was right all along. Perhaps this could be explained better to me as to what exactly the documents revealed. Anyway, this wasn't even brought in conversation, but I have a suspicion that some of the allegations this person was making were coming from this.

One part of the conversation that I remember, was the suggestion that one of the secretary of states in either Truman or FDR's White House had contact, perhaps direct, with Communist operatives overseas. Of course we have to remember that statements like these can sound ridiculous, but they might actually be coming from another story.

We all know FDR's meeting with Stalin.


This is a quote that when searching, was dug up on many anti-FDR web sites:

"I do not believe in communism any more than you do but there is nothing wrong with the Communists in this country; several of the best friends I have got are Communists."

-President FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT, conversation with Representative Martin Dies at the White House, as reported by Dies.—Congressional Record, September 22, 1950, vol. 96, Appendix, p. A6832.

Now would FDR ever make such a crazy statement?

Here's another little ditty:

"FDR lying again to the American people by pretending to stand up, all the while leading us into an unnecessary war against Nazi Germany---WHO HAD NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER TO PEARL HARBOR!!!---based on bogus WMD "intelligence" from so-called experts like that Einstein guy all to save the Imperial pretensions of Winston Churchill!!!"


Here's a site that is on the fringe, believe me, I know. But perhaps a person could go through some of these and pick out certain distortions the person is making.

http://www.geocities.com/mark_willey/fdr.html


Are there any books you could recommend that would throughly go through the FDR/Truman era and communism without all the Right wing spewing. I'm not looking for half truths. I'm looking for something that takes an objective view without all the agenda hating the New Deal.

For instance:
"As early as 1948 American left-liberals blamed the Truman administration for the icy tone of its relations with Moscow, while rightists blamed the Communists but accused Roosevelt and Truman of appeasement. Moderates of both parties shared a consensus that Truman's containment policy was."

Perhaps books dealing with this very issue.

Thanks for all the help, and I hope I have given too many headaches with this.

[ellisonz]

10. To start with, consider the source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Dies%2C_Jr.

For some reason, the wiki link isn't working so just google the wiki for Martin Dies.

Not exactly credible...

[fightindonkey]

11. Anyone?

Anyone else want to help?

[madokie]

12. not getting many bites are ya

using FDR as bait, shame

[rucky]

17. All of this shit came from the Ann Coulter book, "Treason"

get it from the library, then check out her sources (if Al Franken hasn't already done so).

[fightindonkey]

18. Okay

I can't take an mAnn Coulter book. She's too batshit crazy. However, I will continue to do more research. I'm still waiting for someone to suggest some good books that talk about this very time, FDR, communism, etc.

[krispos42]

19. The Nazi's declared war on us

I have a book, a coffee table book, with every important front page of the New York Times from January 1, 1900 to January 1, 2000.

I've read about the attack on Pearl Harbor, I read the Declaration of War that Congress voted on against the Japanese, I read the declaration of war on us by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, and I read the declarations of war against THEM.


I would also note that Communism didn't become a critial national security issue or foreign-policy problem until AFTER World War Two, when Eastern Europe went Commie, and China followed soon afterwards.

Until Germany invaded Poland, there were strong Communist and Socialist parties in this country, trying to find ways out of the Great Depression that Capitalism had caused and seemed unable to correct. The economic and military might of Italy and Germany's fascist regimes were considered to be good examples of how the US government should go.

In fact, ManHands Coulter's favoritest person in the world, George Walker Bush, had a grandfather who activally supported the Nazis in Germany during the '30s and early 40's. In fact, Prescott Bush continued to help the Nazis finacially and in business until the assessts of the various banks (on which he sat on the board of directors) were seized by the federal government in late 1942 under the Trading With the Enemies Act.

A point of interest:

A very conservative think-tank recently posted a letter advocating Bush declare himself "President For Life".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1574242&mesg_id=1574242

Interestingly, the page and the cashe has been removed! Shocking, isn't it?

Too bad for them I made a PDF document of the whole thing.

Conquering the Drawbacks of Democracy

By Philip Atkinson



President George W. Bush is the 43rd President of the United States. He
was sworn in for a second term on January 20, 2005 after being chosen by
the majority of citizens in America to be president.



Yet in 2007 he is generally despised, with many citizens of Western
civilization expressing contempt for his person and his policies, sentiments
which now abound on the Internet. This rage at President Bush is an
inevitable result of the system of government demanded by the people,
which is Democracy.



The inadequacy of Democracy, rule by the majority, is undeniable – for it
demands adopting ideas because they are popular, rather than because
they are wise. This means that any man chosen to act as an agent of the
people is placed in an invidious position: if he commits folly because it is
popular, then he will be held responsible for the inevitable result. If he
refuses to commit folly, then he will be detested by most citizens because he
is frustrating their demands.


<snip>

The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear
weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until
they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no
American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly
electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or
his life.


<snip>

President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by
becoming “ex-president” Bush or he can become “President-for-Life”
Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to
the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating
Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America
united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a
new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.


<end>

Oh, there are tons more juicy bits in there, but rules generally limit me to four paragraphs.

[HughMoran]

21. Who cares if someone considers communism a valid alternative

It has been proven that the people who distribute the wealth in such a system can't resist temptation and thus "hold back" to amass power. But I could give a crap if anybody had friend who were communists - now or then. Who gives a fuck - it's a free country as far as I know. Bringing up red-scare crap from 60+ years ago is lame and I could care less what the RW hate-merchants say.

[Tsiyu]

13. I don't think you'll get DUers panties in a twist over commies

Hell. We're all pinko hippie commies ourselves.

So FDR may have said he had buddies with different ideological leanings? Gosh.

How subversive.

Here's a hint. Even back then, the real enemy wasn't the Communists. The real enemy is alive and kicking and screwing up this country today - wearing the traditional colors of the Commies. "I'd rather be dead than red" takes on a whole new meaning, huh?

[WinkyDink]

14. There are sources beyond the computer. :)

[fightindonkey]

15. Either I'm Getting The Troll Treatment

or people do not want to take the time and answer my questions.

[yewberry]

20. You've buried your own question in a subthread.

I'd start a new thread with your question in the original post.

Welcome to DU!

PS--ixnay on the mAnn thing. It's considered pretty disrespectful to trans folks.

[fightindonkey]

16. What?!