Lieberman for U.S. Attorney General...ew...and yet...hm.

[WilliamPitt]

Ew.

Serious ew.

Great green gobs of greasy grimy ew.

But even with all that ew, I can't avoid seeing a little bit of upside to the idea.

1. Lieberman is really bad, yes, but compared to the kind of wretched nominee that Bush is almost certain to barf up, Joe is a six-scoop chocolate-fudge ice cream sundae with whipped cream and sprinkles. He's a sundae brought to you on a bright red wagon. A red wagon towed by twenty gleefully giggling adorable bunnies. Twenty bunnies dressed in matching pink fuzzy kilts...who each have two of those little googly-eye stickers on their puffy bunny tails.

Perhaps I overstate the matter juuuust a tad...but you catch my drift. Ashcroft...Gonzales...and now this trial balloon for Ted "Never Heard Of The Arkansas Project" Olson. There's ew, and there's EW, and then there's that troika of doom. No 'ew' exists that can properly describe them.

It's a testament to just how bad things have gotten that Ashcroft actually came off as the fa-chrissake HERO in the NSA spying scandal, defender of the confetti-fied remains of the Bill of Rights, this far and no farther said John from his sickbed...oh, but forget about that American citizen from Chicago named Padilla who got stuffed in a box for three years, who was the citizen they used as a test case for how far they could go in depriving an American of his rights...

...Indeed, it was Johnny-Boy who red-lined Habeus in his final draft of the Patriot Act, and Senator Byrd actually had to make sure Habeus was un-red-lined before they passed the thing, and so it is an historical fact that our most essential and fundamental legal principle owes its survival beyond 2001 to the state of West Virginia, a state whose formation came roughly 800 years after Habeus was first inscribed into the Magna Carta.

As for Gonzo...I just can't...I mean, Jesus H. Christ on a sidecar, it would be one thing if he'd been some wild-eyed fanatical Straussian just dying to test-drive some of his "theories," because at least that would mean there was a mind at work, even a deranged one. This guy just wasn't...anything.

I know that Nazi analogies are totally facile, but I can't avoid this one. It is almost impossible to believe human beings could commit the blank-eyed evil that the Nazis did. Didn't they have any sense of right and wrong? Didn't they have...anything? How could people do that? Well, consider Gonzo. Yes sir, torture sir, spy on Americans sir, whatever you say sir. If you need proof of the blank-eyed evil that was the Reich, he's a fair facsimile. The bloodless robot who follows orders.

And the really gruesome part? I really don't think he actually remembers any of it. "I don't recall" was the stone truth. Why should he? He wasn't wrestling with right and wrong, laws or statutes, regulations or expectations, moral codes or constitutional allegiance. There were only the orders, recieved and executed and done. A pistol doesn't remember the bullets it fires, doesn't remember the lives it takes. A pistol follows orders from the trigger finger. A pistol is a machine. With one blank eye.

So, yeah, the needle on my Detest-O-Meter definitely stands at attention when contemplating Joe Lieberman, but the hatred and dread and horror I have for the AGs who have been, and the potential of some non-Lieberman to be...well, I just can't get that geeked up about Joe.

Plus.

2. This is a maybe, but if Joe joins the Bush administration, he will have to give up his Senate seat, and I don't forsee him having an easy time winning it back again after crossing to the Dark Side like that...oh, and Ned Lamont might make it even harder for him.

It's a hell of a thing. Ew. But a much more tolerable kind of ew.

Oh beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves of...

*smash smash smash smash*

'Scuse me. I just stood up for Lieberman. Something had to be destroyed. I really liked that ashtray, too.

Thoughts?

[Patsy Stone]

1. The only upside, to me, is getting that Senate seat back.

Although, I see your point: better the devil you know then Ted "Bush v. Gore" Olson, the devil himself.

[MiniMe]

3. I think that the Gpvernor of Connecticut is an R

[WilliamPitt]

9. Jodi Rell (R)

That should be interesting. If Joe jumps, Rell's phone is going to explode.

But will the GOP gov of a deep-blue state play ball? If playing ball emperils re-election?

Hmm.

Anyway, if a GOPer gets the temp-spot, they won't last past next November...and whoever replaces them will hopefully have 5, 10, 20, 22, 24 new Dem Senator friends to play with. :)

[MiniMe]

56. Are you sure it would ge in 08?

Joe just got re-elected by lying to the people of Connecticut. He isn't due for re-election until 2012. Would they hold a special election to fulfill his term?

Just curious.

[BlooInBloo]

58. Counting on the fuckwipe Connecticut electorate to do anything right...

... is a fool's errand.

[question everything]

67. And if there is a Supreme Court vacancy

during this year?

Bush's "legacy" of a court full of Scalias and Thomases will be achieved.

[Patsy Stone]

30. At this point, a Republican might be better than Joe.

If they have any sort of conscience that is.

[bunkerbuster1]

53. Sorry, no.

You put an official Gooper in there, and it's a bone fide tie. It'd screw up the committee chairs and such.

Sorry, but Will's wrong on this one.

[Patsy Stone]

60. You're right about the committees

but since this is all sort of hypothetical, I was talking about the purely ideological benefits. My RINO governor (Crist) is more of an independent (and even more of a Democrat) than Joe.

[hfojvt]

39. What? What? WTF?

That is supposed to be a BLUE state!!! What's the matter with Kansas indeed. At least our Governor is a D. A DLC, probably, but still a D.

[onenote]

41. which only goes to prove that the entire "blue/red" state concept is very flawed

In terms of who CT voters supported for President in 2000 and 2004, CT is blue. But it has a repub governor and in 2002 and 2004, CT voters elected 3 repubs to the House (out of 5 seats). Two of those three incumbents lost in 2006, reflecting the growing disenchantment with repubs generally. But CT isn't San Francisco.

[WilliamPitt]

50. *koff* Romney *koff* Massachusetts *koff*

It happens. New England is weird.

[Vinca]

5. We might not get it back. The Ct. governor is a Republican. nt

[WilliamPitt]

22. We'll get it back in '08.

Bank it.

[Vinca]

35. That's true. I doubt Holy Joe would give up the seat for AG, though.

He likes the cameras too much.

[The Traveler]

2. Sorry about the ash tray

but you knew it had to be done. :rofl: Ew. What's worse, you are basically right. Double ew.


:puke:

[hfojvt]

40. He needs to quit smoking anyway.

I hear it's bad for ya. :hide:

[The Traveler]

51. Are you kidding?

It's tobacco! It's the best thing in the world for ya!

:smoke:

[LSK]

4. Good point about his seat

And Joementum is bound to be just as bad as anyone else Bush would pick.

Unless the Dems plan on rejecting nominee after nominee.

So you are basically saying trading Joementum for about a year as AG for Senator Ned Lamont?

[NMDemDist2]

6. is the Gov. of CT a Dem? then full speed ahead AFAIC

they won't do it if the Gov is a (D) though I bet. They'd be terrified we'd get a real Dem senator instead of ol Isreal at any price Lieberman.

sorry about your ashtray dude.......

[LSK]

10. no, scratch that idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Jodi_Rell

[wuushew]

7. If AG is such a great job why did Bobby Kennedy become NY Senator?

Don't tell me that the only two reasons were Lyndon Johnson being an asshole and eventual Presidential ambitions.


Senator > AG

[WilliamPitt]

17. I think it might have had something to do with his brother getting murdered.

All the books I've read on the Kennedy years describe a shattered, depressed, nearly paralyzed RFK. He needed to get out of the White House, and away from anything to do with the office of the president.

[LSK]

21. RFK finished his term under Johnson and he hated Johnson with a passion

[saracat]

8. Wouldn't we lose the majority as Joe caucus's with the Dems?

[LeftCoast]

11. Did you see the poll showing CT voters w/ 'buyers remorse'?

This is slightly off-topic, but I thought it was pretty interesting.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/13/124925/928

Daily Kos commissioned the following poll from independent pollster Research 2000:

Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 9/10-12. Likely voters. MoE 4% (No trend lines)

For whom did you vote for in the 2006 race for U.S. Senate, Ned Lamont, the Democrat, Alan Schlesinger, the Republican, or Joe Lieberman, an Independent?

Lieberman Lamont Schlesinger
All 49 42 9
Dem 34 62 4
Rep 67 10 23
Ind 53 41 6


If you could vote again for U.S. Senate, would you vote for Ned Lamont, the Democrat, Alan Schlesinger, the Republican, or Joe Lieberman, an Independent?

Lieberman Lamont Schlesinger
All 40 48 10
Dem 25 72 3
Rep 69 7 24
Ind 38 49 9

Lieberman won 50-40-10 in 2006, so the poll tracks closely. But even if you account for a slight Lamont bias, it still looks like buyer's remorse. Full polling memo from R2K below the fold.

-snip-

[Hekate]

12. Ah, Will. It's you. Welcome back.

As always, something to think about. :hi:

Hekate

[northzax]

13. it would, temporarily, tip the senate to the GOP

the governor gets to appoint the replacement until the next general election, and she's a republican. I figure she throws it to Nancy Johnson, who is old enough to not matter in 2008, and simply serves as a placeholder. Shays is out, because his house seat would go blue in 08. and, given the organizing resolution in place in the Senate, it wouldn't change the leadership, and since on the pressing issues of the day, Lieberman votes GOP, it wouldn't affect the Senate enough to matter.

[WilliamPitt]

26. ...and if the trend holds,

CT will go Dem along with a whole buttload of other seats. 24 and counting, and Warner's in the VA race now. Nebraska is opening up a Dem seat ripe for GOP plucking with Hagel leaving, but the GOP has to defend 22 seats + Idaho + Virginia...they could get Nebraska, but it'll cost them elsewhere.

[Vincardog]

14. Will what brought this on? Is LIEberman up for something?

[WilliamPitt]

20. Not that I know of.

But the idea of AG Joe has been getting bandied about here and there. Got me thinking.

[Vincardog]

45. They need to make clear that before any AG is confirmed The subpenas have to be complied with

an independent prosecutor for the partisan activities of the mis-Administration has to be appointed. And the KKKomander and thief has to stop with the Excessive privilege BS

[Klukie]

15. I vote for "Jesus H Christ on a sidecar"

Great line.

[Supersedeas]

16. David Vitter has as much chance of being AG -- no way Bush cronies give away Holy Joe's leverage in

the Senate

[xxqqqzme]

18. (cough)(gasp)(gag)(swallow harrd)(take a deep breath)

I could live w/ that but alas it won't be. Saurove has picked teddyboy(he was floated before gonzo if I recall correctly). One more to reward for Florida 2000.

[terisan]

19. I think Lieberman would do Cheney's bidding on anything in xchange for keeping wars going. nt

[goodhue]

23. why would he want it?

eom

[tularetom]

24. Is someone seriously advancing this idea?

I've been in and out this morning and apparently missed a few things. Has someone heard a story, a leak, or a rumor that bush is considering appointing joe loserman as AG?

I applaud the suggestion if for no other reason than it will provide fewer photo ops and fox noise appearances for the snivelly whiney little twerp and I won't have to listen to his godawful voice anymore. He rarely votes with the Democrats on foreign policy matters anyway so who gives a shit if the CT gov appoints a repub to replace him.

He's worked his way up to the No. 2 spot on my list of creeps I mute when they appear on my TV.

Hope there is some substance behind this.

[WilliamPitt]

28. I've seen it bandied about here and there

I wrote mainly in the mind of "Gad zooks, I actually want Lieberman for an actual office, actually!"

Ew.

Who knows?

[lazyriver]

25. Lieberman is a slug and I loathe him but, as frightening as

it is to say, Bush could most definitely dredge up someone even worse. Lieberman would be replaced in the Senate by a Repug, but let's face it, he really is a Repug anyway so the loss is really not that great.

In theory, I wouldn't want Lieberman holding any public office ever again. But in the harsh reality that is the Bush administration, this might be as good as it could get.

I feel dirty saying it, but I guess I kind of agree with the idea...time to go smash something now.

[cali]

27. Why bother even entertaining this far fetched scenario?

No way is joe going to trade in a shiny, powerful Senate seat, his for over 5 more years, for a one year ride on the bush express to irrelevancy.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Yeah

Thought exercise, mostly...however, the three constants are Death, Taxes, and Joe Riding Shotgun With Bush & Co.

[Klukie]

34. He might if it meant the power to push thru an illegal attack on Iran.

He is chomping at the bit to go in there.

[WilliamPitt]

36. I don't think that's part of the AG's bailiwick.

[cali]

37. DoJ is not DoD n/t

[Klukie]

46. Okay .. mabye I am confused?

Couldn't the AG interpret laws in a way that would give the president the backdrop for illegal activities? I don't know? I read all this stuff about Gonzales and how he gave legal justification for Bushs bullshit policies and I wonder how far can they take it.

[MonkeyFunk]

29. That's a lot of words

for an idea nobody is considering.

[WilliamPitt]

33. Yeah, well, you considered it.

Din'cha.

Ha ha.

I made you consider it.

Neener.

:P

Next time I'll get the MonkeyFunk Seal Of Relevance before I post something.

If I'm worthy.

:)

[MonkeyFunk]

43. No

I've never considered the idea of Lieberman as AG.

Is there any reason you're raising the possibility, or were you just jonesing to type a lot?

[WilliamPitt]

48. I'm always jonesing to type a lot

But I've seen a thread or two around here on the topic, and heard some TV blather about it as well.

:)

[MonkeyFunk]

52. a thread on DU

makes you think Lieberman is going to be nominated for AG?

God, how on earth is it possible anybody pays you for your tripe?

[WilliamPitt]

54. Heh.

Good thing nobody pays me for writing here, right? I'd be getting paid to write random thoughts off the top of my head, and that'd just be nutso.

Hope saying that made you feel better. Validated or something.

Toot toot.

:)

[MonkeyFunk]

61. go ride

the Get Fucked Express.

Or are you the only one who's allowed to say that?

*poot poot*

[WilliamPitt]

65. Apparently not.

Lacrosse practice got out early, I see.

:)

[MonkeyFunk]

66. cool

go ride the Get Fucked express.

*poot poot*

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[endarkenment]

32. Good riddance. nt.

[damntexdem]

38. Get him out of the Senate -- yeah, I can see that.

[onenote]

42. and the odds that chimpy would pick someone with an "F" rating from the NRA

and a 100 percent score from Planned Parenthood to be the nation's attorney general?

Not. Going. To. Happen.

[ladjf]

44. Is there any possible way for things to go any worse?

Bush and his Republican henchmen have literally sickened the entire world. And unfortunately, the Democratic leadership hasn't done much to guide us out of this terrible mess.

Something real is making Americans too dumb to select capable government.

[Truth2Tell]

47. I think we have a reasonable shot at removing him from the Senate

in 4 years, and it would be almost 2 before we removed his replacement under this scenario - about the time he most likely loses some of his leverage anyway. I see it as very little gained.

And then on the AG side - if our leadership would show some backbone we could force a much better AG candidate than Lieberman onto these guys (think non-neocon, non-Federalist Society respected centrist Repubs). We have the advantage of the existence of bi-partisan concerns about the integrity of the Justice Department. We don't need to settle for another neo-con crony here, unless the Dems have hit maximum wimp overdrive.

So your scenario is a big lose on the very important AG side right now, and a relative wash on the Senate makeup side down the road. I vote a big fat no fucking way.

Also, just curious, surely you could give us some teeny weeny hint as to where you've heard this "floating around"? Right?

[mitchtv]

55. and we though Gonzo liked torture

rendition for all

[JerseygirlCT]

57. He'd undoubtedly make a better AG than he does a senator

A bit more removed from politics. And he'd be right out in front with any controversial decisions he made. He couldn't escape the light of scrutiny or brush it off as "partisan politics" when he did something unconstitutional.

And, this is really, really sad to say: Jodi Rell would pick a Republican, of course. But most of the people she might pick are probably better than Lieberman anyway. He's not just a Republican in Dems clothing, he's a far-right Republican war-hawk in Democratic clothing.

[L. Coyote]

59. Perhaps we should consider competence. Says NO to Joe.

[BostonMa]

62. Brilliant! Well said, sir!

Brilliant! As usual! :thumbsup:

[NewJeffCT]

63. I don't think Lieby would take a 15 month job, and then turn around & campaign again?

I don't see Lieberman running again for Senate in 2008 - he just ran in 2006 and it was a tough campaign for him.

Rell could appoint just defeated Nancy Johnson or Rob Simmons to Lieberman's role, and both might give a Democrat a tough run next year. Or, she could appoint moderate Chris Shays. However, I think Rosa DeLauro, John Larson, Dick Blumenthal and Susan Bysiewicz would all be favorites against just about any state Republican, save Rell.

I don't think any other state Republic would have a realistic shot at winning in 2008.

That said, since Lieberman is more moderate on social issues than most loyal Bushies, he might be the least of the evils out there. The fundie base might not like a pro-choice Jew as AG, however.

[orleans]

64. is replacing lieberman with a republican senator for five and a half years

some kind of pay off?

i don't see it. and that's what would happen.