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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 05:37 PM
Original message
New Deep-Pocketed Conservative Group Has Sights Set On Iran
New Group Boasts Big War Chest and Rising Voice

By DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: September 30, 2007


Freedom’s Watch, a deep-pocketed conservative group led by two former senior White House officials, made an audacious debut in late August when it began a $15 million advertising campaign designed to maintain Congressional support for President Bush’s troop increase in Iraq.

Founded this summer by a dozen wealthy conservatives, the nonprofit group is set apart from most advocacy groups by the immense wealth of its core group of benefactors, its intention to far outspend its rivals and its ambition to pursue a wide-ranging agenda. Its next target: Iran policy.

Next month, Freedom’s Watch will sponsor a private forum of 20 experts on radical Islam that is expected to make the case that Iran poses a direct threat to the security of the United States, according to several benefactors of the group.


Although the group declined to identify the experts, several were invited from the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington research group with close ties to the White House. Some institute scholars have advocated a more confrontational policy to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, including keeping military action as an option.

snip//

The idea for Freedom’s Watch was hatched in March at the winter meeting of Republican Jewish Coalition in Manalapan, Fla., where Vice President Dick Cheney was the keynote speaker, according to participants. Next week, the group is moving into a 10,000-square-foot office in the Chinatown section of Washington, with plans to employ as many as 50 people by early next year.

One benefactor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the group was hoping to raise as much as $200 million by November 2008. Raising big money “will be easy,” the benefactor said, adding that several of the founders each wrote a check for $1 million. Mr. Blakeman would not confirm or deny whether any donor gave $1 million, or more, to the organization.

more...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/us/politics/30watch.html?ex=1348804800&en=99584dd6163c334b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ari Fliesher is one of them
he was the first mouth piece for this admin.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Sourcewatch on the other guy, Bradley Blakeman:
Edited on Sat Sep-29-07 06:44 PM by sfexpat2000
Bradley A. Blakeman is president and chief executive officer,<1> as well as one of several prominent conservatives funding Freedom's Watch, a new White House front group<2> which began "a multimillion-dollar advertising campaign to urge members of Congress who may be wavering in their support for the war in Iraq not to 'cut and run'."<3>

Blakeman served as a member of President George W. Bush's Senior Staff as the Deputy Assistant to the President for Appointments and Scheduling.<4>

Prior to joining the Bush administration in 2006, Blakeman worked as a lobbyist at Park Strategies LLC for former Sen. Alfonse D'Amato (R-N.Y.).<5><6> He is also the Senior Advisor for Gordon C. James Public Relations.<4>

Blakeman is a former vice president of Barbour, Griffith and Rogers.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bradley_A._Blakeman

Outsider, my granny. I just emailed the AP to ask on what planet Ari and this guy are outsiders.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
71. Alfonse D'Amato? How about that?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bookmarking for the next time the AP OR the NYTs
calls this a grassroots group or the next Conservative MoveOn.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. This to me seems like such an evil agenda. MoveOn can't compare, but
I think I've already read about comparisons.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. The overt comparison I read was an AP story. I didn't bookmark it
but it'd be worth finding because you know it will happen again. And, again.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Here's the story where they go after the Betray Us ad.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Here's one where the funding of the 2 groups are compared:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Aha! Here's that AP article: Outsiders Aim to Frame the Political Debate
WASHINGTON - They raise millions of dollars, conduct provocative ad campaigns, work with a vast network of like-minded allies and have the power to frame the presidential election going forward as much as the candidates themselves.

That used to define only the liberal MoveOn.org, an organization of 3.3 million members that has raised $25 million in the past 18 months and is helping spearhead an anti-war coalition.

Now, a group of conservatives and Republicans with close ties to the White House have formed their own enterprise, Freedom's Watch, landing on the political scene with a $15 million ad campaign to defend President Bush's Iraq war strategy.

But this is just the start. Its organizers don't see themselves as the single-cause Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, who aimed to sink John Kerry's presidential bid in 2004. Instead, they hope to fill what they say is a void on the right, becoming a permanent, well-financed conservative voice on social, economic and national security issues.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070928/ap_on_el_ge/outsiders_politics

:grr:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks for both of the links!!
Edited on Sat Sep-29-07 06:19 PM by Solly Mack
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The AP is calling them outsiders. We have to get someone
like Amy Goodman or Keith on this bs!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Yep..and those "outsiders" are pretending they are "filling a void"
As if they aren't everywhere and into everything already....

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Email to the AP:
Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070928/ap_on_el_ge/outsiders_politics


I am writing an editorial on Freedoms Watch and before I run it, I'd like to ask how the writer of this AP story came to the conclusion that a group run by Ari Fleisher consists of "outsiders".

My deadline is Wednesday, 10/03

Thank you,
Elizabeth Ferrari

(We see you coming, mofos!)
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Excellent!!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. the addy is info @ ap.org.
Can we challenge these people this time?

I also sent it in to MediaMatters: mm-tips @ mediamatters.org.

:hi:
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. "a private forum of 20 experts on radical Islam "
really?? So, what about the radical christianity in the US? I find that to be just as, if not more than, important then radical islam.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. see what happens when they aren't held accountable?
they leave the WH and do shit like this...

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. These people haven't left the White House.
They just have offices elsewhere.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. True...Ari didn't really leave
he's just working out of a new office....and Rove is too...

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Looks like a rebirth of the Project For a New American Century
with fresh blood, but the same old vampire at the helm, Dick Cheney.

You know that his Saudi employers don't want an end to the Iraq war and they do want Iran taken care of because without the USA acting as their security guard, those tribal types from either country could spell an end to the House of Saud IMHO.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. And to back up a little more, PNAC is just IranContra
in ideological drag. They are the same pendejos.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. Ah, thanks for the heads up. I wondered if that might be their next step
All that money and effort and no where to spend it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1838429

On a side note, thought this was pretty ironic:

Bush financial backers alleged to have stolen "Freedom's Watch"
Well, well, well...seems like the "grassroots" propaganda effort known as Freedom's Watch allegedly stole its name from a "hero of the conservatives" who actually opposes the war:

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Larry Klayman, once a hero of conservatives for persistently taking Bill Clinton to court, sued former aides and financial backers of President Bush on Monday for using the name "Freedom's Watch" to mount a multimillion-dollar campaign in support of the war in Iraq.

In the federal lawsuit, Klayman accuses the group of appropriating a name he has used to promote his own public interest legal work. Klayman, who lives in Miami, said he first used the name Freedom Watch in 2004 on behalf of his nonprofit legal and educational activities and later registered it with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

<snip>

What's more, Klayman said, he opposes the ongoing war in Iraq. He said he supported toppling Saddam Hussein, but he said he believes the United States should now "let the Iraqis sort everything out."

"The Iraq war does not promote freedom, it promotes chaos and anarchy and instability," he said in an interview."
http://www.atlargely.com/2007/09/bush-financial-.html

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'll make a bet Ledeen will be part of this "20 experts" group.
Iran, Fox News, Freedom's Watch, Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute


Fox News, Freedom's Watch, and Marketing a War with Iran
by beabea
Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 03:50:35 PM PDT
This ominous blockquote from Dr. Barnett Rubin’s excellent Aug. 29 diary Post Labor Day Product Rollout: War with Iran (Cross-Posted at Informed Comment Global Affairs)! really got my attention, so I filed it away...

They (the source's institution) have "instructions" (yes, that was the word used) from the Office of the Vice-President to roll out a campaign for war with Iran in the week after Labor Day; it will be coordinated with the American Enterprise Institute, the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard, Commentary, Fox, and the usual suspects. It will be heavy sustained assault on the airwaves, designed to knock public sentiment into a position from which a war can be maintained. Evidently they don't think they'll ever get majority support for this--they want something like 35-40 percent support, which in their book is "plenty."


...but at the time, I just couldn’t bring myself to believe the administration could really be that insane. However, over the last few days, I’ve seen some things that look to me like an implementation of these "instructions"...

I know that beating the Iran war drum is nothing new for the Fox "News" Channel, but I thought this video clip was exceptionally disturbing even by Fox standards—a video showing what an attack on Iran would (not might) look like.

~snip~

This was followed by "analysis" with überneocon (and leading Iraq War proponent) Michael Ledeen, and a Fox News military analyst, who actually refers to the video as a "promo piece". Promotional, huh?

~snip~

This was also an opportunity for Ledeen to promote his newest book, The Iranian Time Bomb: The Mullah Zealots’ Quest for Destruction, in which he writes that this "administration or the next will likely face a terrible choice: appease a nuclear Iran, or bomb it before their atomic weapons are ready to go."

This book was released September 10 (I guess the 11th would have been too obvious), just days after the Sept. 6 launch of the American Enterprise Institute’s "All or Nothing" campaign to "save the surge". (Which I’m sure was itself planned completely independently of the Petraeus testimony and 9/11 anniversary).

Speaking of connections between "Saving the Surge" and whipping up support for war with Iran, check this out:



Did anybody catch this in Monday’s New York Times?

It's brought to you by our friends at Freedom’s Watch...


More:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/27/162944/319


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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. This thread could use more recommends
Lots of good stuff in it :)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Go see #21 for the other Bush shill on board at Freedom's Rolex.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Good stuff!! Remember how Shrub pretended he was an outsider too?
he worked for his father when he was President...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. This is a tax deduction scam to pay the media off.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. That's right. Exactly But also
it's the White House in grassroots drag telling the media to lay off the White House.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. More like paying the media to play their tune, and getting a tax deduction in the process.
This has a really heavy stench of criminality, and, it is being operated by former Bush White House personnel!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. And the AP and the NYTs are right on board.
Stinks to heaven. We better keep an eye on these people AND we need to write about them and send it viral on the net.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. digby: The Outsiders
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/outsiders-by-digby-according-to-ap-move.html

The Outsiders

by digby

According to the AP, Move-On, the much loathed liberal grassroots group of nearly three and a half million members is being met with a similar group of grassroots conservative outsiders:

Outsiders Aim to Frame Political Debate

WASHINGTON -- They raise millions of dollars, conduct provocative ad campaigns, work with a vast network of like-minded allies and have the power to frame the presidential election going forward as much as the candidates themselves.

That used to define only the liberal MoveOn.org, an organization of 3.3 million members that has raised $25 million in the past 18 months and is helping spearhead an anti-war coalition.

Now, a group of conservatives and Republicans with close ties to the White House have formed their own enterprise, Freedom's Watch, landing on the political scene with a $15 million ad campaign to defend President Bush's Iraq war strategy.

As such, Freedom's Watch and MoveOn.org could be the left and right bookends not only on the war, but on a number of issues that will decide the 2008 elections and shape congressional debate beyond. Freedom's Watch organizers said they are considering whether to create a political subgroup, like MoveOn has, that could directly play a role in elections.




Right. Book-ends.

When Blakeman speaks of "we," he is referring to "friends, former administration people, party leaders, decision makers." Unlike MoveOn, which has its roots in California's Silicon Valley, Freedom's Watch is clearly a Washington creature.

Many in its inner circle of strategists and donors are close to Vice President Dick Cheney or held high posts at the White House. Blakeman, whose 26-year-old nephew died when the World Trade Center collapsed in the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, was director of scheduling and appointments at the Bush White House.

Among those who brainstormed with him this summer was Mary Matalin, Cheney's counselor until 2003 and still an adviser to the vice president. Ari Fleischer, the former White House spokesman, is a member of the Freedom's Watch board.

more...

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/outsiders-by-digby-according-to-ap-move.html
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Ha! Awesome!
:woohoo:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. Can we put this on the front page?
Good work, babylonsister. :applause:

:kick:
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
70. How does one do that?
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Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. Freedom Watch is another name for NEO-CON
The impetus to invade IRAN is not coming from the average person on the street....but they'll be the ones to die and pay for it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Exactly. And their families will pay for it while they go without. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kick. Swiftboaters on steroids. n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. 'Swiftboaters on steroids" - boy, ain't that the truth! nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. These people are behind the NYTs "apology" for the MoveOn ad.
We need to get just as serious.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Judging from the characters involved, they are dangerous, no doubt.
And they're just getting started. :(
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. They've effectively manipulated the two more respected media outlets
in this country.

And, they're just warming up. :shrug:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. William Randolf Hearst bought his war this way!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. And, for the record, this is not a new group. It's the old group
using a new brand.

:kick:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
43. As long as others go over and shed their
blood and let them sit in their fat armchairs with their chickenshithawking doing only the squawking.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. So, Neocon groups can push for war, but it is forbidden to discuss their primary loyalities?
Edited on Sat Sep-29-07 08:22 PM by NoodleyAppendage
My initial post was CENSORED, so I'll post my response to the reflexive, anti-democratic person who decided that he/she is the arbitor of discussion:

-------------------------

Israel and the Neocon supporters of Israel put enormous pressure on the US to conform our foreign policy towards actions that may not necessarily be in the US's best interest, but almost always in the best interests of Israel. If Israel wants to start a larger Middle East War (World War IV), then please have at it, but why should US soldiers die for the territorial, resource, and security needs of a country which is so itching "to get its war on?"

Again, it is NOT anti-semetic to raise the FACTS that AIPAC, the organization raised in this post, and PNAC are populated by Neocons, many with apparent primary loyalities to Israel. We can agree that they are criminals, but what distinguishes them is their tireless effort to afford Israel apparent security at the expense of logic and pragmatism.

J
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. No, that is not anti-Semitic. But when you characterize
Edited on Sat Sep-29-07 08:34 PM by sfexpat2000
those organizations as Jewish and not just as criminal corporatists, THAT is anti-Semitic.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. So does his new post past the smell test, then?
Edited on Sat Sep-29-07 08:41 PM by Emit
I'm always so confused about the topic, in all honesty -- and I consider myself not uneducated on, nor particularly insensitive to, the topic.

Nothing worse than a good thread getting shut down over the issue, though.

(FYI, edited to add, I didn't quite catch the deleted subthread -- always seem to miss those)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I know. But some things are important.
Some of these criminals use the Jewish faith just as different criminals use the Christian faith or democracy or freedom or insert your own tag.

And, imho, it is incumbent on us to see through that. They are the same criminals looking for a cover. And, it's repulsive to tar people of faith or of a political persuasion or a gender or a sexual orientation because these same criminals are using that cover to forward their aims.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. So, what exactly are primarly Jewish organizations that are also Neocon?
I understand that the Jewish faith is not a unity block of persons. For the sake of being specific to only those of the faith with rabid Neocon loyalities, what would you suggest we call them? I'd like to limit future posts about the problem to just these individuals and not the faith as a whole.

J
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. All I'm trying to say is this: these organizations use the Jewish faith
Edited on Sat Sep-29-07 09:14 PM by sfexpat2000
just as other assholes use the Christian faith or, pose as feminists or family rights organizations or any other meme that will sell.

It has nothing to do with being Jewish or Christian or anything else. It's drag.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. Likudniks?

Also, far right-wing radical Zionists, but this one seems to be limited to my posts, intended in the same vein as radical extremist Muslims, or right-wing radical neocon Christians.
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pretty_lies Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. Blatant DU Double Standard
Apparently we can talk about Muslim terrorists, but not Jewish warmongers!

It's pretty much the same deal.

Muslims have a terror problem. Most Muslims don't support terror, but Muslim groups don't do much to stop terrorism compared to their efforts complaining about Israel.

In just the same way, Jews have a war problem. Most Jews aren't neocons, but loyalty to Israel and fear of Islam means that the Jewish lobby tend to either support wars ostensibly in Israel's interests, or else not to oppose those wars. The Jewish people tend to support their own groups, with honorable exceptions.

Let's not be bigoted here. Stop using double standards!

And don't think I hate Jewish people. Grow up. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS LIKE ADULTS.

Suppressing honest speech is wrong.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. So, let's talk about this as adults.
The "double standard" evaporates once you realize that it's not about any group or faith but only about assholes like Dick Cheney dressing up in the name of Christianity or in the name of "supporting" Israel to justify their warmongering.

It's the same 20 guys trying to line their pockets and has nothing to do with being Jewish or Christian or Muslim or anything.

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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. It is important to recognize 'the Jews' ...
Are a HUGE population group with MANY different political subgroups, among them PEACE LOVING ATHEISTS, as well as pacifist theological elements ...

Choose your words carefully, and you can express what you think freely and openly ...

IF you are careless and cast about statements that condemn the WHOLE population, then you might expect a censure here .....

I am no supporter of Likud, and have had many a post pulled for this same reason .... it was due primarily to my own careless choice of words, and not a blatant hatred of a people ....

Be precise .... and you will be heard ...
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
45. there are no laws to contain these criminals
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
49. What do they have to gain?
Are they war-profiteers?
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. The answer is contained in which country would gain the most from diminished Persian power. n/t
J
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. No. It's not about nation states but about corporate interests. n/t
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #51
69. Saudi Arabia?
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
56. One thing you will never hear a progressive organization say-
"finding big money will be easy." Jeesh. Can we catch a break?

That's why I don't trust when people like Rove and Karen Hughes step out of the limelight they will stop exerting influence. Being in the limelight was just phase one. It reminds me when people say if you see a roach, there are probably 20 or 30 that you can't see. That's what they're like-roaches, eating away at democracy in the dark.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. They promote Freedom's Watch as a counterpoint to Move On ...
Edited on Sat Sep-29-07 09:54 PM by Trajan
Yet it is nothing of the sort.

Move On was PURELY grassroots, and was born of the frustrations of many MILLIONS of american citizens .... Freedom's Watch was born on the huge bankrolls of a few extreme right wing billionaires ....

Freedom's Watch is nothing but a bunch of cheerleaders for a bullshit war THEY promulgated with lies and misdirection .... The AEI produced the PNAC, the OSP, and the primary cause of the nonsensical 'strategy' used to fight in Iraq: a strategy based on lies and self deception that has cost millions of lives .... Now they reconstitute themselves as 'Freedom's Watch' ....

AEI ? .... PNAC ? .... Freedom's Watch ? ..... SAME ASSHOLES ! ....

THEY should be hung from the same yardarm that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz should be hung from .... They do our nation AND our military a disservice by even trying to bring 'honor' to their cause .... They were dishonorable 4 years ago ..... They are dishonorable now ...

I read something today from their leadership: They say that Iran's leader could be stopped from destroying the US and Israel, like Hitler should have been stopped before he wreaked havoc in Europe .... Yet it is well known that the right wing corporatists of the 20's and 30's formed a similar group then who SUPPORTED the Nazis : Among them was one Mr. Walker, and Prescott Bush, family members of the current ASSHOLE in the White House ....

Their ilk ALWAYS supports repression against the common citizens of the world: It is right to be wary of Iran (in my view) .... Yet this band of miscreants are the LAST group that should be calling the shots ....

Freedom's Watch should be hung with a bright shiny "I AM THE PNAC" emblem on their metaphysical necks .... and revealed to the world, and the nation, as the backstabbing assholes they really are ....

They ARE the PNAC : And this is a great opportunity to bring light to their dark movement ...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Yes! See #14 for tha AP's first buy in.
We'll be seeing more of these fraudulent assholes.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Check out #18 for a recent ad they put in NYT
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. That's what they do.
As others have pointed out, if you let them get away, they just reform again and again. Almost all the major players in this war, were the ones we let get away in the Nixon administration and then they came back to Iran-Contra. They re-animate. That's why people who say impeachment is impractical have a short view of history. Impeachment for Cheney and Bush, and imprisonment for all of them are the only things that will say NO MORE!!

Also, I wonder if the 'independent' Bill O'Lielly who spends every night castigating MoveOn and fearmongers about George Soros will have anything to say here.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
62. kick n/t
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
63. RECOMMENDED!!!
"I think of war with Iran as the ending of America's present role in the world. Iraq may have been a preview of that, but it's still redeemable if we get out fast. In a war with Iran, we'll get dragged down for 20 or 30 years. The world will condemn us. We will lose our position in the world."

Zbigniew Brzezinski, Vanity Fair, 2006.


.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
64. kick n/t
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
66. This thread needs to be seen again. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
67. And today, AOL has a poll up comparing the two groups.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
68. More info on Freedom's Watch
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
72. Our research up at OpEdNews:
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