Du'ers...are you considering leaving the country?

[Danger Mouse]

Where would go?
My gf and I have been talking about it, and neither of us are sure we want to be in the U.S. long term at this point.
Where are some good places for a couple of impetuous young ex-pats?

[carly denise pt deux]

1. Jamaica or Belize

pretty scenery and cheap prices
Carly

[dysfunctional press]

22. good luck when the climate change comes.

nt

[carly denise pt deux]

26. oh yeah, forgot about that......let me give another place

Switzerland.....would amsterdam be in peril with the climate change too?
Carly

[shanti]

75. jamaica isn't cheap

believe that!

[cherokeeprogressive]

81. Not to mention that Jamaican gangs are among the most ruthless and violent.

An American in Jamaica who can afford a nice house is a prime target.

[shanti]

82. exactly

i used to think jamaica was a cheap place to live too, until i learned otherwise. it's an ISLAND, and island living will always be expensive because food and goods must be shipped in.

[shadowknows69]

2. Stay and fight

No place on earth will be safe for long if these despots and their enablers are allowed to continue.

[Danger Mouse]

6. that's true...

i'm just wondering, though, if the damage done to america by bush is fatal.

[maddezmom]

3. No, I've just returned from my 3rd and last expat assignment

I'm staying and fighting. :)

[Danger Mouse]

7. i wish i could be as sure as you...

i want to fight, to help take back our country and get a good dem president in the white house...
i just feel discouraged sometimes.

[maddezmom]

10. I know how you feel, but being out of the country doesn't make it any easier

at least not for me. :)

[CoffeeCat]

45. If you don't mind me asking...

...did you leave because of our current political situation?

What was it like being out of the US, and to watch our nation from afar? I imagine
that it was embarrassing to see--from the outside--that the US is shameful on the
world's stage.

I fantasize about leaving all of the time. If it was just me, I'd be outta here.
I have a husband who doesn't believe that it's as bad as I think it is. He's just
a few steps behind me. We have two small children and it's just not as easy to pick
up and leave for another country. Then again, much of my angst about staying is
about their future here. I think they deserve better.

So, did you leave--believing that you would stay away, but you returned?

I'm thinking about Canada.

[maddezmom]

84. we left due to husband's job

And knew we would return each time.

[depakid]

4. If you're young enough and have education

Canada would be a good choice.

[CalebHayes]

69. self delete

[seabeyond]

5. hands down i still think u.s. is the best. for me anyway.

i am plannin on staying. no desire to leave the country, though wouldnt mind relocating within the country. somehow this california gal got stuck in texas. and not big city texas but the yeehah panhandle of texas

[MrSlayer]

8. No, I'm not.

Because, quite frankly, while all this neo-con bullshit is beyond fucked up, it isn't effecting my life one bit. The construction industry is booming here and I'm having my best year financially since 2000. The upswing is going to last for at least another five years with all the projects being planned in the city. I'm not going anywhere.

[billyoc]

18. Same here in NYC.

What trade are you in?

[MrSlayer]

67. Electrician.

Local 98 I.B.E.W.

[billyoc]

71. Ironworker.

Local 46 (rod local)

[Solly Mack]

9. I can honestly say I'm not

[girl gone mad]

11. Every country in the world..

has its problems, and you're likely to bump into plenty of American jerks wherever you go. Plus you still have to pay taxes, even if you don't live or work here.

[Danger Mouse]

12. really? you have to pay US taxes even as an ex-pat?

taxes on what?

[girl gone mad]

21. Income taxes

Here's a good article about the current laws:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/business/30tax.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Danger Mouse]

27. holy shit! that's insane!!!

:(

[Art_from_Ark]

66. If you are an ex-pat, you must file a US tax return

but that does not necessarily mean you have to pay US taxes on your foreign-earned income.

From the article:

Senator Grassley's staff, in a memo, said that the I.R.S. counted 306,393 tax returns claiming the exclusion in 2003, of which only 125,894 paid any American income taxes.

[LSK]

83. see this part of the article

Americans working overseas get a dollar-for-dollar credit for income taxes paid to foreign countries to offset their American income taxes. They also get to exclude $80,000 from the income they report to the I.R.S. The new law increased the exclusion to $82,400 this year.

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. Sometimes I think leaving is a nice idea

Reality is that it simply isn't an option at this point in time. My services are required to help care for aging famiy members.

[Forkboy]

14. I'd love to try living in Japan, but not because of how it is here.

[Marrah_G]

15. No, this is my country

I'm not going anywhere. I was born in New England and I will die here. My ancestors were both NA and Pilgrims. I'm staying and fighting.

[Danger Mouse]

16. The infection caused by the corporations has creeped into the very roots of America.

Is there anything even left to fight for?

[Marrah_G]

23. Yes there is

I'm not prepared to give up the place that I love, the people and culture that I love to a bunch of Neo-con assholes. In time this too will pass and hopefully the end result will be stronger and better. I'm not prepared to give up.

Where would any of us be if a bunch of Patriots didn't decide that their ideals were worth fighting for? Theirs was not a lost cause and neither is ours.

[Danger Mouse]

30. i'm just wondering how. it's not just the republicans who are owned by the corporations...

but many democrats as well.
it'll require a massive upheaval in the white house and in congress.

[Marrah_G]

31. I'm not saying it's easy

Just that in my opinion it is worth the fight.

[Danger Mouse]

38. America is worth saving. I agree.

I'm just feeling some discouragement, I guess.

[Marrah_G]

44. We all do sometimes

When you get to down, think about the good things you love about your hometown. Forget the big picture, look next door or down the street. Think about the good an decent people you know who make a difference in the lives of those around them. THAT is the America wirth saving. That spirit that never gives up and perseveres through civil war, drought, fires, floods, great depressions, terrorist attacks, and war. We are still here. We are America.

[GRLMGC]

17. Sure

but not because I hate it here. I would just like a change of scenery.

[proud patriot]

19. No

but I would love to visit Costa Rica someday and I
love visiting Mexico.

[soothsayer]

20. Nope. I'm hanging in here to take it back.

[riderinthestorm]

24. I am making plans

I am eligible for Irish citizenship (through a grandparent). I applied more than 15 months ago and I am awaiting results. If I'm not arrested for civil disobedience before I am approved I expect that I will get citizenship within 5 - 6 months.

My farm isn't movable but I would consider leasing/selling it if push came to shove. Moving to Ireland doesn't slay me because I already do a lot of business with Ireland (importing sporthorses). If I had to leave the country, I'd just become the Irish contact instead of the US contact.

I believe Dublin is a first class opportunity for would-be American expats. I tried to get Australian citizenship but that route is pretty much closed (research their immigration protocols and you will understand).

You need to be able to prove that you can provide a host country with needed skills, impeccable credit, ample funds, and a method of providing for yourselves once you land in that country and are establishing yourself. Are you a superstar (ie. sports, literary, academic, research, technological etc.)? Most countries are pretty receptive to approving a residency visa if you are a superstar.

Good luck!

[dysfunctional press]

25. not any more.

when the climate change horrors come rolling in- i want to be on my home turf.

[scarletwoman]

28. Nope, I'm too old and too in love with the land where I live. My soul is here.

I WILL encourage my sons to leave, if things look to get much worse. On my father's side of the family, contact has been kept up with our relatives in Norway (I'm only 2 generations removed from the forebears who first immigrated here). So, I'd like to think that there's a possibility that my sons could find refuge in Norway, should they seek it.

If I were young and had marketable skills that might be welcomed by another country, I would get busy doing research -- including family ancestry. At the very least, I would hope that you and your gf have gotten passports. You can always go to another country on a tourist visa and spend some time looking around.

In terms of relocating to another country, it really comes down to whether or not you have skills that the country of your choice has need of. Or at least lots of money.

sw

[Danger Mouse]

29. my girlfriend is jewish...

won't that help with israel as a possibility?

[shadowknows69]

33. I"m betting you may not want to be near Israel in the coming years.

Just a feeling I get that WWIII may take place near there.

[Danger Mouse]

36. as i said to the gf...

if WWIII starts, nowhere in the world will be safe.

[laylah]

40. She is also

Celtic, Irish, and English. Ireland and/or Wales might be nice. Me? Naw, too old and love of my country is too ingrained in me. I'll stay and fight the good fight. It would break my heart to have my girl leave, I'll never be old enough for that but if that is what would make her happy, I would support it all the way.

[Danger Mouse]

42. it's just idle talk

:hug:
that NYT article about income tax paid by ex-patriots has us both scared.
i think what we really want is to see this country saved from itself.

[fizzgig]

47. i'd love ireland

but i'd miss my mommy :hug:

[Danger Mouse]

48. i'd love ireland too.

i still need to meet the mommy. :P :hug:

[laylah]

73. Yes you do

but as I have said before, we'll save the easiest for last. If you survive Jack and Hana, then you can survive ANYTHING :rofl:

[laylah]

72. ahhhhhhhh...

I'd miss my girl, too, but ya gotta do what 'cha gotta do :hug:

[Marrah_G]

32. "My soul is here"

Your line sums up my feelings perfectly.

[scarletwoman]

35. Thank you. I'm very glad you can relate. (nt)

[riderinthestorm]

37. Norway doesn't accept grandparent ancestry as a means for immigration

or citizenship.

If you are really serious, your sons need to begin deliberately researching potential ways to get out of the US, now. And that means mving serious assets out of the country now as well or they will be lost.

And if it comes to it, your skills may not mean anything. I am on the top of Canada's most desirable list as a farmer (a small family based, diversified farm but not a huge agri-business). But Canada's farm policies mimic the US farm policies (agri-business) and my type of small business farming won't sustain us.

Don't get me wrong, I am eligible to emigrate as my grandfather was Canadian, and if push came to shove, I'd just dump it all and leave, assets-be-damned, but I don't believe you would be okay with your sons becoming slum tenants in Canada which is where I believe "lots of money" will buy a person (just that kind of meager shot) if/when the shit hits the fan for the US.

[scarletwoman]

46. Well, my sons are adults who will make their own choices no matter what their mom thinks,

anyway. I'm pretty sure they'll stay here as well. It's just been a little fantasy of mine; that they'd be able to find refuge elsewhere if they really needed it. At least they both have passports -- mine expired many years ago, and I haven't bothered to renew it.

Still, I think if I petitioned my distant cousins in the Mother country, they'd take in my children, even if temporarily. If the U.S. were to be convulsed in chaos and overcome with police state brutality, I would hope that somewhere there might be shelter offered to political refugees.

But I'll be taking my chances here -- and most likely, so will my children.

sw

[riderinthestorm]

55. Good luck! I mean that.

I really don't see leaving myself. Even if/when I get Irish citizenship, I plan on buying a condo there and renting it out until/if my children might need it.

I have a 20 year old and an 11 year old. My 20 year old is applying for grad schools in Europe (and her major virtually dictates that she would live there) so I'm not really worried about her but I do worry that my 11 year old has options.

And health care! At least Ireland is civilized in it's health care treatment of it's citizens. I worry about the US and it's health care options - I believe that this issue alone is one of the biggest causative agents for US citizen emigration.

Take care of yourself. :hug:

[scarletwoman]

65. You are very sweet and kind. I'll be fine, and I do believe my sons will be fine as well.

Thank you for your lovely post. I wish you all the best.

sw

[porphyrian]

34. Nope. No one's kicking me out of my country. Fuck 'em, they can move. - n/t

[No Coercion]

39. Singapore or Hong Kong

I've hypothetically considered a move as well (very hypothetically). The only reason I would ever move is to escape the increasingly authoritarian economic regulations here and make enough money that I could come back and use my wealth to help fund a campaign to restore freedom to America. For that reason, I would consider the two most economically free places in the world: Singapore and Hong Kong. I know Hong Kong is technically part of China now, but the mainland government has so far allowed it incredible autonomy and it continues to be the freest place in the world (with Singapore close behind). I figure making a shit load of money has to be the top priority, since that's what it would take to fund a meaningful movement for freedom here.

[Danger Mouse]

43. best of luck to you, then

in your endeavor

[tuckessee]

41. I would consider moving to France.

Not really to avoid any bad times in the States but just because I like the French land and I seem to get along wonderfully with locals.

I've also fantasized about moving to someplace really, really remote like the Solomon Islands in Melanesia.

Unfortunately I was denied a passport reissue so I guess I'm stuck here.

[CoffeeCat]

51. Why were you denied a passport reissue?

Is that common?

I assumed that if you wanted a passport, you had one.

[Ellen Forradalom]

49. I am.

For love. And to live civilized existence.

[Kerrytravelers]

50. We're open to the idea, but not without something to go to, meaning jobs.

We are both educated and experienced in our fields. Canada is alluring, as is Ireland. We're looked into the possibility and know others who are considering or already in the process. We're not ready yet, but if an opportunity came our way, we wouldn't necessarily say no. And, we currently have no children. When we have children, we will defintely reconsider our situation with their best interst in mind (although we certainly think about that now when the discussion of going to another country comes up.) I would say I am closer to leaving than Mr. kt, but I'm not busy packing any bags just yet!

[kedrys]

52. Trying to get out right now

I'm a Canadian citizen, and I'm looking for a job in Montreal, where most of my family lives. The s.o. is learning French, and my mom found us a really great-sounding place not a mile from where my sister lives.

I hate having to leave, but I don't see an end to the insanity. Besides everything that's gone wrong in the country since 2000, we've been through so much personal crap that we might as well take the plunge and go for a fresh start elsewhere. :(

[AZBlue]

54. If I did move, that would be the reason.

For a fresh start. Sometimes in life you need a "do over" even as adults. Good luck finding something!

[kedrys]

58. Thanks!

We came to the realization that we were living the definition of insanity: doing the same crap over and over and expecting a different outcome.

2007 pretty much ranks as the worst year of my life so far, and I'd like for the bullshit to stop. When I told my mom all that's happened to us this year, at first she thought I was full of shit. It reads like some really bad science-fiction. Frankly, sometimes I'm surprised I'm still married - lesser couples would have folded a dozen times by now.

[AZBlue]

63. Wow!

It does sound like you've been through a lot!! I think a change of venue, so to speak, would do you good. Sometimes you just need one change and everything else follows suit. I hope it all works out for you soon!!

[AZBlue]

53. No way. This is MY country and they CAN NOT take it from me.

I will stay and fight.

[kedrys]

59. And you see, I respect that to the nth degree

I got nothing left - otherwise I'd consider staying. I truly hope things work themselves out and the country somehow manages to heal itself from all that's happened since *.

[AZBlue]

61. Oh, and believe me...I see your point of view.

And some days I'm ready to pack. But, I'm not there yet - perhaps if 2008 is stolen, I will be.

[Wiley50]

56. Where there's a will there's a way

unfortunately the will my name is on as beneficiary

won't come through until I'm almost 75

if I live that long

(The bank trust dept saw the way long before me)

[cigsandcoffee]

57. No. I love this country. n/t

[Skittles]

60. no, I won't run

I will never abandon my own country to these facist assholes

[MedleyMisty]

62. I'd leave the planet if I could

Married the only other human out of the six and a half billion who I could relate to and who made sense.

I keep hoping that my real species will come back and pick me up. Hasn't happened yet. Sigh.

[Rhythm and Blue]

64. Emigration is kind of a bitch.

I'd advise you stay here. If you really want to go, I'd pick an EU country. Ireland is very nice, as is Great Britain, but the weather in both sucks like hell, so if you don't like cloudy days, don't go there. If you don't speak any languages but English fluently, you'll have a very, very hard time moving to a non-Anglophone country, especially if you do not have any extremely marketable skills.

[Throd]

68. No

[CalebHayes]

70. It is very much on the table for me

I would love to try to get a work visa in the UK. I know it's hard but I think I would do it at this point. I'm not positive I will but I'm 17, I got my life in front of me, I don't know if I wanna be here forever.

[RebelSansCause]

74. maybe, it has always been my dream to live in San Fran after spending all my life so far in NYC

but shit is truly hitting the fan. i'm a college freshmen so when i study abroad in europe in my junior year i am going to check it out, see how the culture stacks up. however, i am indeed a rebel. someone who is non-confrontational until it comes to politics. then i will fight you tooth and nail, fight until my last breath goes out, until the cause is won or i collapse from exhaustion. however, if the cards play out correctly, anything could happen. but i fucking love america for what it stood for, for it's original conception, i am not going to let that die except with a long, drawn out fight.

WHO THE FUCK IS WITH ME?

[Initech]

76. I'm sticking around until the '08 elections.

If the Bushes somehow find a way to remain in power or we elect another GOP douchebag, I'm outta here.

[bridgit]

77. just got back from the bar speaking with a friend of ours from Holland...

we're moving to Amsterdam if any where, maybe south of France, or Costa Rica

[bridgit]

78. oh, and not because America has gone to shit either just cause

what's you guy'z excuse?

[Selatius]

79. As Bush says, "ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE."

That about sums up my stance. If the gates to the concentration camp are going to be shut, I'd like to be on the right side of the goddamn fence.

[Sandaasu]

80. Already planning to move to Canada

I don't hate this country or anything, but up north does seem to be, overall, the better place for my boyfriend and myself to be at this time.