Children - human right or a privilege?

[Deja Q]

Poll question: Children - human right or a privilege?

Discuss.

[MADem]

1. How about a "Human OPTION." nt

[Deja Q]

19. A valid point,

except the main debate I'm reading on other forums is "Is it a human right or a privilege?" Both sides say it's one or the other and don't cite much of anything of depth, apart from financial reasons or that anyone should be allowed to make as many babies as they want (and not following up with what level of responsibility such people should instill as parents).

[MADem]

22. Those baaastids with their false dichotomies!!!!!! nt

[sandnsea]

2. Human Right

And anybody who doesn't get that is the one who is too nuts to have children.

[ananda]

3. If you vote for anything other than human right..

.. it moves into eugenics and population manipulation based
on race.

[Quantess]

7. This is the first mention of race I've seen in this thread.

How are the other options based on race?

[Deja Q]

9. Hmmm

Race? Or class?

And what happens if the population becomes excessive?

Having studied, albeit to a rudimentary level, various cultures, environmental factors, and peoples' own attitudes toward children (the forums where people really claim it's a privilege never seem to say if it's for psychological or wealth-based reasons and the ones where the people say it's a right, period, somehow don't bother explaining where proper education and so-called "proper behavior adoption practices" (in a word, "discipline"))... all I know is I understand many points of view and will suffice to say it's a privilege based on the ability to parent.

[stirlingsliver]

4. Human Right -- But....

It's a human right to have as many children as you can.

But, like any other right, it should be exercised responsibly.

No one should bring another human life into this world unless she/he are able and willing to provide it with the nurture, care, protection, and support it needs.

[Lorien]

37. And willing to except the fact that they will be dooming this new life

to a living hell. I don't believe that any child born today will live to see 50. Climate change is happening faster than anyone expected and the results will be nothing less than horrific. As much as I would love to be a mother, I can't in good conscience bring a child into this mess.

[Democrats_win]

5. It's a right that comes with the ultimate responsibility: a mini you.

[Deja Q]

11. And what if people who think they're above rights make mini versions of themselves,

only to toss them aside like a fast food burger wrapper?

(or, rather, at what point does a governing body step aside to rescue the children from the idiot parent? Or should there be a governing body? Should the parent be re-educated? What would be the procedure, to help ensure we don't end up with children growing up to be "anti-social", for lack of desire to adumbrate upon any number of unsavory tangents...)

Incidentally, in the event the parents lose their jobs or otherwise lose the ability to afford them, in most cases I'd have no qualms with the concept of "welfare". Good people who end up in bad times shouldn't be summarily thrown out like an empty beer can onto the highway.

[ulysses]

6. ?

How about "other - basic biological drive"?

[blondeatlast]

10. Come on now--those are so easily quashed it's irrelevant.

I know you get it, but for those who don't, my response is :sarcam:

[Deja Q]

12. Like eating, peeing, and breastfeeding, there's a time and place for everything.

We're not rabbits, gerbils, guppies, or any other un-evolved tasty animal that isn't going to give a damn what we do and where we do it.

Which is why 'basic biological drive' cannot be a response. It's too vague; especially when it comes to the human condition. We're so much better. Or at least are supposed to be.

[ulysses]

20. I don't think I buy the "supposed to be" too much.

Insofar as anything is "supposed to" happen, natural selection rules that roost - we continue to shit where we eat and we die off, like any other species that overuses its environment.

Now, we obviously have brains that allow us to realize the predicament in advance. We already know what makes people, as groups, have fewer children - higher economic status and comfort. If anything might stand a chance of stemming population growth, it's that, not declaring the having of children a privilege.

[SeussTree]

41. How do you know we're not tasty?

[wuushew]

8. Some combination of the above as long as the population average is less than 2.1

n/t

[TheFarseer]

13. A work-mate was telling me about her cousin

who is married to a man that beats her and the kid so badly that the state took the kid away. Soon after that, they had another kid. Now that kid is getting taken away because of the physical abuse. What do you do about this???

[Deja Q]

14. Put my proverbial foot down.

Some would do nothing.

But if there's a set of circumstances that repeats itself, any sane person would not let it continue.

For one thing, that "man" needs to be put behind bars.

[MUSTANG_2004]

17. That's different

The poll is phrased such that you have to "pre-qualify" to be able to have kids. This situation is someone who had kids and then criminally abused them. You have a basic right to be free, have children, etc, but if you use those rights to violently harm others, you may lose some of those rights.

[Deja Q]

18. And was a type of response I was looking for.

My other responses to date should clear up the proverbial picture, because I was negligent of doing so in my OP in the first place.

[11 Bravo]

15. If you ever post a thread complaining about "push polling" ...

the God of Irony will strike you dead, rip off your head, and shit down your neck.

[Deja Q]

16. I do not understand the meaning of your phrase.

Please elaborate.

What is "push polling"?

If you are implying the selection of choices isn't wide enough, I will respond by saying "Of every conceivable choice, no pun intended, I put up only the most relevant choices based on the buzzwords people on other forums use."

My goal isn't to push or pull anything. Only to draw out conversation that transcends one-liner, says-nothing talking points. But I'll admit, the fact I used others' one-liners to demonstrate the problem might be seen as a double standard. It isn't. I am reflecting what others had said and am looking for deeper meaning.

[Breeze54]

21. Were you a right or a privilege?

:shrug:

[Milo_Bloom]

25. I think more of a choice

[Breeze54]

27. I was yet another.."Surprise!!"

:rofl:

My parents used the 'rhythm' method of birth control.

When they heard a drumbeat? They got the rhythm! :P

[Lorien]

36. Neither. I was a mistake.

My mother had me during a time when abortion was illegal.

[0rganism]

23. how about a "biologically-limited privilege"?

We may consider it our "right" to reproduce, but that "right" is de-facto limited to the fertile. Granted, there may be technological means to overcoming this inherent limitation, e.g. sperm banks that enable reproduction post-death, but many of them are simply temporary replacements of a biological limitation with an economic limitation...

[Milo_Bloom]

24. None of the above.

If you mean "legally" it is a right. There is no current law that forbids you from having children. Some laws might make it more or less difficult, but, as far as I know, there is no law that says you can't.

Morally? That would open up a large discussions of which none of the choices would really cover my OPINION, which unfortunately is not legally binding ;)

[Labors of Hercules]

26. Neither.

Having children is a risk. One that many people are willing to take, but no matter how you slice it, an unsustainable future is becoming the reality, and the more population grows, the more grave the risk for all humanity.

[Breeze54]

28. I've been hearing THAT since the early 70's.

"We're doomed!!! OMG!!! Stop having so many kids!!

Run for your lives!!!!!!"

--

We're still here. ;)

[Lorien]

33. Not for much longer.

read through the environment and energy forum.

[NuttyFluffers]

29. Scourge Upon Gaia!

oh wait, that's not one of the options. damn.

:evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

38. We are not free.

lol

[pitohui]

30. this poll is broken

where's the "unfortunate circumstance" option? :-) seriously, tho, my mom and many other women did not bear children by choice and my mom for one made damn sure we knew it! "3 kinds of birth control, 3 kids," as she put it

"privilege" implies that having a kid is something nice to do or enjoyable, which it isn't, it's an expensive difficult task that may, or may not, pay off in later years, you don't know until it's too late that your kid is a crackhead

i have a friend going thru this right now, her life has just been destroyed, because her crackhead son has been seriously and permanently disabled in an accident and will never work again, forcing her to care for this vegetable for life, i don't know what she will be able to do, my asperger's suggestion "flee the country and let the state take care of him" is not something she's ready to hear right now or maybe not ever, but she'll never have a free day again if she doesn't

children are a wild crazy gamble, should definitely be one option

they are not a "privilege," a "privilege" is free champagne in the club room

why does everyone assume THEIR child will be mozart when almost no child is mozart?

[porphyrian]

31. I'd call it a "human responsibility." Not to have them, but to be responsible for them if you do.

What constitutes being responsible for the children you have is open to some interpretation, but neglect and endangerment are legally defined.

[The Straight Story]

32. like my sex life - none of your fucking business

But, after a few beers we can discuss my sex life :)

[gollygee]

34. Reproductive rights are human rights

Not something anyone else has a right to choose for another person.

[The Straight Story]

35. You would think so, but some on the left fringe think otherwise

Pretty sad....

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. Procreation is the engine that drives evolution.

I'd say more "biological imperative" than human right.

[zagging]

40. Sick question

Edit to clarify that it wasn't a personal attack:

As a rhetorical point it has no value. As a matter of serious discussion is deserves to be studied among the longhairs who would disect the the brains of those who considered it a matter of opinion, so that they could determine what the true origins of sociopathy are.

[Quantess]

42. Of course it's a right.

An alcoholic woman who doesn't want to choose between an abortion or quitting drinking for 9 months can give birth to as many fetal alcohol babies as she wishes. And as much alcohol as the fetuses can survive! One fetal alcohol baby after another. Keep crankin' em out, lady. It's her right.