Can Someone answer this? About the Kucinich ResolutionVote Today?

[KoKo]

Steney Hoyer called for a House Vote to Table the Kucinich Resolution so that it wouldn't come up for Debate. In the Middle of the Vote to Table...the votes (which had Dems AND Repugs voting overwhelmingly to Table the Resolution the votes started to change on the Repug side. Repugs started to switch their vote and the numbers that had been confusingly overwhelmingly Dem to "Table" started to turn to NOT TABLE from the Repugs.

For those of us watching it seemed to be Bizarre! Why would Repugs start changing their vote causing the Vote go over the 15 Minute limit into over an hour and a half?

In the end the vote NOT TO TABLE passed with Repugs voting 242 Not to Table and Dems voting 170 TO Table seemed like a REVERSE in the THEATER of the BIZARRE. Why would Democrats vote to Table Kucinich's Resolution (Kill IT) and Repugs suddenly change their minds for a STUNT to allow it to go forward? :shrug:

Anyway...in the end another vote took place on "Resoltion to Confirm Resolution to Send Resolution to the House Judiciary Commmittee." (Was that the SAME AS KILLING IT?) :shrug: That Vote seemed to confirm that Kucinich's Resolution to Impeach would "Not be Tabled" ...and "Not Brought to House Vote" ..but would be referred to Conyer's Judiciary Committee.

Checking threads on DU after this and listening to Matthews show with a Reporter talking about some of it as he "laughed about Kucinich and mocked what went on with the vote) ....it seems that the CONSENSUS HERE and in the MEDIA is that Repugs Mocked Dems by Voting "NOT to Table" (by changing vote in mid-stream) and that Hoyer referred Kucinich's Bill to Judiciary to Kill it there!

So...why did Repugs go out of their way to spend and hour and a half "changing their vote" when they COULD HAVE JUST VOTED TO TABLE the BILL in the first place?

Anyone know? :shrug:

[SteppingRazor]

1. They wanted the House debate.

They saw a fractured Democratic Party and wanted to exploit that, with a debate that would feature Democrats arguing for impeachment, Democrats arguing against it, and Republicans mocking both sides.

[iamthebandfanman]

6. if we were united

thered be nothing to worry about...

but unfortunately people in the party think they know more and are more important.

the most emberassing thing is that we were being given a chance to prove his crimes and people in our party wanted to throw it away.
we shoulda taken it

[MrCoffee]

9. we were united...during the first vote, the overwhelming majority of Dems wanted to table

[MrCoffee]

7. Exactly right. They wanted it in front of the full House, not in committee

[SteppingRazor]

10. Of course it's exactly right. Aren't I always?

:P

[rodeodance]

2. well, I sure would say the Repugs set out to embarrass the Dems AND they

succeeded in my book1

[EVDebs]

3. GOP is about to start another war that is endless bloodletting and drain on the treasury

And THEY, of all people, are FULLY AWARE of who brought us to this place in time. Votes changed because of that and don't fool yourself otherwise. The election of '06 was about getting us out of Iraq and the voters will know what party to vote for and what party to vote against.

[Junkdrawer]

4. My take:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2220688&mesg_id=2220688

[rjones2818]

5. The Repugs think that it's a winning issue.

They think that impeaching Dick and W is crazy and that most Americans don't want that to happen. Allowing debate would have embarrassed the Dems.

Not that their thinking is right....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. The Democrats obliged the Republicans by voting to table.

The Republicans then hung them, gleefully, on their own petard.

"But, congressman, you voted to table the impeachment bill and declined to have a debate."

My own "liberal" (D) congressman voted to table it. I can't wait to hear his lame explanation for that...well, yes I can.

[KoKo]

13. Wouldn't that seem to make our Dems appear completely CLUELESS?

Surely Repugs are worried about Cheney taking away their re-election in the House! They could have joined with Dems in Embarrassing Kucinich by just speedily voting to TABLE his Resolution and it would have been done with!

:shrug: That's what I don't get.

[Canuckistanian]

15. Exactly. How does this make the Republicans look?

It makes them look like they WANT the Cheney impeachment to go forward.

And if they don't, then they look like petty naysayers, voting against EVERYTHING the Democrats favor.

Either way, I think the Republicans come out looking worse.

[KoKo]

17. What if there REALLY ARE Repugs who WANT Cheney Impeached?

and that their vote on this would enhance their chances of re-election in '08, though?

[Canuckistanian]

24. Some have been quietly saying that for years, I hear

I doubt whether the others have had an epiphany today, but this may have been a stunt that triggers something else entirely.

[spanone]

11. oddly, after the first fifteen minutes, hoyer could have gaveled the bill and tabled it

there were enough votes at the time

weird shit

[KoKo]

14. That's what I thought! The time limit had come and gone and I've seen them do

this with votes before! I got the impression that Repugs are not happy with Cheney and this was the way the House was "coming together" to give Cheney a scare. The Dem vote really didn't change that much through the whole vote it was the Repugs who changed THEIR VOTES to NOT TABLE.

I had this fantasy that Dems held firm so that the Repugs could show their displeasure with Cheney by switching vote NOT TO TABLE...so they could say that to their constiuents at home. Since House Members are up for vote every 2 years...they've always gotta be feeding their folks back at home and CHENEY is a HUGE LIABILITY FOR REPUGS... Even more than the Chimp!

:shrug: Maybe I'm braindead at this point but that whole thing was so dramatic I think it wasn't done to make fun of Dems...but to give a "warning shot across Cheney's big butt."

:shrug:

[MrCoffee]

18. that RIGHT THERE is what is incomprehensible about the whole thing

why in the world did Hoyer let them get away with it?

[Hobarticus]

12. The bill came up by surprise...the strategy developed

in consultation as the vote was progressing.

[KoKo]

20. Everyone Knew Kucinich's Bill was coming up for vote...so there had to be planning

since Nancy/Steney have always said "Impeachment is OFF THE TABLE!" That's my question...WHY did this vote to TABLE (which the Dem Leadership seemed so in favor of get trashed by our Dems but Championed to move to Judiciary) by the Repugs? :shrug:

[KoKo]

16. There's an interesting post on "KOS"by "KragoX" that gives a little more insight

but even his post...leaves me feeling we are being "Spun like a Top" by all sides and still don't know the TRUTH of what happened today.

Anyway...here's the view...from a poster whose usually "clued in" who posts on "Firedoglake" and "KOS."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/11/6/164257/349

[nancyharris]

19. Bottom Line

1-Representative Kucinich offered a privileged resolution calling for the impeachment of Vice President Cheney
2-Majorty Leader Hoyer moved to table the resolution (tabling means that the resolution would not be debated until such time as the Majority Leader and Speaker allow the House to vote to un-table the resolution – in effect to kill the resolution)
3-The motion to table the resolution was defeated. Most Democrats voted to table the resolution (no debate) and most Republicans voted against tabling the resolution (to allow debate on the resolution.
4 – Having lost on his (and the Democrats position), Majority Leader Hoyer then made a motion to send the resolution to the Judiciary committee (rather than having a floor debate on the resolution). (Sending the resolution to the Judiciary Committee in effect kills the resolution)
5- The motion to send the resolution to the Judiciary Committee was passed (The majority of the Democrats and even some of the resolution’s co-sponsors voted to kill the resolution by sending it to Committee. The majority of the Republicans and Congressman Kucinich voted against killing the resolution)

The Bottom line is that Congressman Kucinich and the Republicans were courageous enough to debate the impeachment resolution on the floor of the House and the Democrats were not!

The reason for this is because the majority of the Democrat Representatives do not believe that either Vice-President Cheney or President Bush should be impeached (nor do they want the troops removed from Iraq). They do, of course, want to talk about these issues as part of their campaigns because it gets them votes and money – but they don’t really believe in what they say.

[KoKo]

22. Well...nancy-harris...you've given the kind of truth that my "gut"tells

me is probably closer than anything else I've seen! It's still missing parts...but it's clearer than much of the other stuff floating around.

[nancyharris]

23. In Addition,

Congressman Kucinich's resolution will not appear in the Congressional Record. As a privileged resolution it does not enter the record unless it is “recognized” by the majority of the House. Sending the resolution to the Judiciary Committee also has the effect of non-recognition. Thus you (nor historians) will find the impeachment resolution in the Congressional Record.

[mmonk]

21. Expose the democrats to their constituents so we could remain

demoralized and also so they could get talking points for their constituents pretending Cheney has done no impeachable offenses.