I sense a credibility gap amongst ourselves. Self-indulgent / semi-coherent rant alert

[taterguy]

Whenever someone here suggests that people drive less often there's an inevitable response: People only drive when it’s absolutely positively necessary. Apparently everyone here lives at least 30 miles away from the nearest place of employment and/or store; or something like that. I've never seen anyone on this site admit that they drive when they don't have to.

I look around my world and I see something different. I live in a neighborhood that’s exceptionally convenient and reasonably priced. Not that it really matters but the house I live in is appraised at about 140,000. I’m not poor but I ain’t rich either. The equally convenient house I lived in before this one was worth less than 50,000.

There are large employers within two miles that are on roads that are reasonably safe on a bike. There’s a grocery store nearby. There’s a shopping center where I can buy clothes, books, music and other diversions. The climate is great: not much rain, not many days where it’s genuinely too hot or too cold to be outside. So you’d think I’d live in a bastion of alternative transportation. Alas, all I see is cars. The grocery store has no bike rack. The giant employer less than a mile away has a rack but it’s almost always empty.

So here’s what I think: I think some people just refuse to consider transportation options other than a car. It’s somewhat understandable. There are some things that can only be done with a car and if you own a car you might as well use it. I’m guilty of that myself. This weekend there was no food I wanted in my house and I was craving a hero sandwich. There’s a sandwich shop less than two miles away but since I was already hungry I wanted to get there as quickly as possible. I drove. I got to eat about 20 minutes sooner than I would have if I had ridden my bike.

But what’s the cost?
More pollution in the environment.
More profits for greedy oil companies.
More compliance in the atrocities going on in the Middle East.

On the other hand, how egotistical is it to assume that my choices make any difference whatsoever? The aforementioned bad things will happen no matter what I do. Might as well satisfy my hunger as quickly as possible right? Or am I right?

Should we start thinking about these choices? I think about them too much.

What I’m really looking for is a way to promote my views in real life. Why is it unreasonable to suggest the people don’t have to use cars all the time? How can they be convinced that riding a bike is smart, efficient, and well, sensible. It takes a little longer. You might sweat (heaven forbid). It’s a little scary being surrounded by fast moving tons of steel at first but eventually you get used to it. Really. I’ve ridden over 20,000 miles on roads without amenities for cyclists and haven’t collided with a car since I was a dumb teenager.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I’m not holding my breath but I figured it was worth a shot. Thanks for indulging me.

[kestrel91316]

1. Oh, boy.

:popcorn:

(I've tried to suggest more responsible driving habits and it didn't go so well. Get your flameproof undies on.)

[taterguy]

2. I'm in a sometimes you just got to say "What the fuck" mood

Besides, I'm about to take a break for dinner. I'll deal with any flames later.

[blondeatlast]

5. Care to share? I brought frosty beverage... nt

[kestrel91316]

10. Thx.....

:toast: :popcorn: :beer:

[taterguy]

12. No frosty beverage for the person who started this thread?

I guess I'll get my own.

I'll share dinner too

[redqueen]

3. I think you're right... and it's about more than cars.

When anyone replaces a product with a newer product, and the original product they own is still functional... I think that's wrong and selfish.

We will either start acting more responsibly or pay the price. Time's running out.

[taterguy]

9. I think it's more lack of thinking than selfishness

Quite frankly, I got into the cycling lifestyle due to selfishness. I couldn't afford to replace my car and I found that I could do everything I needed to do on a bike. It was more pleasurable for me to ride a bike than drive a car. I have more money now and I married someone with a car so we share it. However, I still find myself using a bike for most of my transportation needs, and wondering why people are so attached to their cars.

[Xipe Totec]

4. I don't drive - I'm on public transportation

This was one of the considerations when I bought my house.

My children walked to school throughout middle school and high school.

We have a car, and we use it for grocery shopping.

What else do you suggest I do?

:shrug:

[taterguy]

15. I suggest that we have a discussion about these issues

I'm not here to judge, just to have a dialog about issues of personal transportation. Maybe by talking to each other we can learn new ideas and improve our lives and the health of our planet.

Or we could devote all of our time and energy on this site to arguing about issues that we have virtually no power over anyway. :shrug:

[Xipe Totec]

17. In the interest of exploring novel ideas,

Wouldn't it be nice to harness the power expended by people on exercise machines?

It should be pretty straight forward to attach an exercise contraption to a power generator.

If you could feed that back to the grid, you could stay healthy AND save on your electric bill.

PS: No, I'm not being facetious. Check this out:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/02/human_leccy_windup/

[NC_Nurse]

6. I have bad knees. Cycling is NOT an option. It hurts.

I ride the bus some of the time. Sometimes I drive. I walk to some places.
It depends on how much time I have. Is there a faster way to travel than walking that doesn't
require knees that aren't as damaged as mine? I've thought about a scooter....but it's not practical for
many of my errands. :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

7. PARKING SUCKS. And, why not equip public transit with goodies like

intercontinental airlines have--seriously?

Why not little individual TVs--I'm not joking! For what it would save on new construction and road repair, it would cost far less in the long run. Wi-Fi. Recorded books.

I'd prefer not to drive, but sadly, you simply can't beat a car for convenience--yet in many ways, it's more of a pain than a pleasure. I won't easily give up having a car--but I'm hoping that a SmartCar convertible is in my near future! I drove my friend's SC in Berlin last year and LOVED it.

[magellan]

8. I really do live far from stores, 6.5 miles to nearest supermarket

...and only drive when necessary. We work at home so most days our car sits unused in the driveway.

[2rth2pwr]

11. The only way it works is if you make it

compulsory.

[taterguy]

14. I think a PR campaign similar to the war on cigarettes would be helpful

It's still legal to smoke.
People still smoke.
However, they smoke a lot less.
That's because they've been educated about the negative effects of tobacco.
Suppose we did the same thing with automobiles?
Cigarette ads were not banned from TV.
Here's what happened: The government decided that the old 'fairness doctrine' applied to cigarettes. Every time a cigarette ad appeared the networks had to air an ad about the dangers of smoking. What if that applied to cars? Imagine if every car ad was followed by a PSA about the consequences of excessive driving. I think we'd see a major change.

Of course I'm not delusional enough to think that will ever happen.
Sigh.

[PVnRT]

21. Yeah, that'll work

What will be the punishment? Firing squad or hanging?

[2rth2pwr]

26. Stocks in the public square

It must be public for the appropriate amount of shame to be administered.

[blondeatlast]

13. Isn't it easier to text, chat on the phone, apply makeup, eat breakfast.

shave, and do one's hair without the pesky DRIVING rhing as well?

We should have public transit that has the same amenities as coach class on intercontinental airliners. Seriously.

[elaineb]

16. K and wholeheartedly R

Because some of us, speaking for myself, DO need reminding about how we could consume less energy than we do, and there isn't anything wrong with people like yourself reminding us of this.

Those who already do what they can don't need to take offense at your reminder and don't need to get in a snit (although some undoubtedly will).

Good on ya for saying your piece!

[earth mom]

18. Buses only run twice a day-wrong time-to the bigger city from where we live-biking is too dangerous

on a two way curving road. I consolidate trips when I'm going to the bigger city a few times a week. Dh has to work everyday & has no one to commute with.


We've thought of moving to the bigger city. We might have to with the way things are going and the price of gas-it's killing us financially. :shrug:

[taterguy]

19. Curving two way roads just add to the fun

Don't think of them as hazards. Think of them as cheap roller coasters. It's all in how you approach things that makes all the difference.

Here's a curvy road that's great for cycling. It's where Lance Armstrong trained for his comeback. That decision worked out well for him. :)

[earth mom]

29. No, we're talking a busy road where trucks are traveling on back & forth. Construction & Log Trucks.

Thanks though for trying. Now if there was a bike path...that would be a whole 'nother story. :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. People act as if America's bad transit systems were ordained by God

If the population WANTS transit badly enough, it happens. If they think that transit is just a necessary evil for poor people and other "subhumans," it will run at inconvenient times on inconvenient routes.

Driving is a bad habit. I lived without a car in Portland for ten years. Now that I live in Minneapolis, I need a car for some things, thanks to the inadequate transit system, BUT I find myself drifting into driving more than I need to.

I know that it's JUST LAZINESS AND INERTIA, even though I purposely moved into a convenient neighborhood.

These days, anybody who moves to the exurbs or buys a non-fuel efficient car or doesn't use the transit that is available is being lazy and self-centered.*

The usual excuse for moving to the exurbs is "I can't afford a house closer in." Well, who says you HAVE TO own a house, and that it has to be twice as big as the one you grew up in? Maybe you could afford a house if you weren't running two or three cars. Or ask yourself how come you need an SUV to haul two children when your parents hauled four children in a sedan. Ask yourself if snobbery or fear of the unknown isn't the reason you refuse to use transit.

*Yes, and I know there are exceptions, but when able-bodied people drive two blocks to the store, there's something seriously screwed. A healthy adult should be able to walk a mile in twenty minutes.

[taterguy]

34. Great post

Couldn't have said it better myself

[deacon]

20. I always look at this in a per region way. If the people that can get to the store

more easily do so, by either walking or taking the bike ride, they should. That would be an enormous help and savings.

[LWolf]

22. I think that

it's hard to get people out of their cars. Simple as that.

I also think that if people live in town, with a good public transportation system, that they could be encouraged to use it, especially with gas prices rising the way they are.

I'd suggest putting the infrastructure in to support what you want FIRST.

Safe bike lanes, economical and efficient public transportation, and perhaps rezoning of towns and cities to allow mixed use areas, so that all the businesses and jobs are NOT further away from the homes. Grocery deliveries? I don't shop often, but when I do, I usually get more than i could carry on foot or a bicycle. When I lived in town, the buses were so few and far between, and infrequent, that I didn't use them. The lack of bike lanes and the heavy traffic kept me from biking to work, although it was an easy biking distance. There just wasn't any safe place in the crush of cars to ride the bike.

Rural people? I don't live 30 miles from work. I live 13 miles from work; 4 stop signs between my home and place of residence. A little too far to ride my horse every day. I'll be driving. Some of us who live within a reasonable distance of each other DO carpool.

[taterguy]

30. As I pointed out in my OP there's nothing wrong with the existing infrastructure where I live

The roads are perfectly safe on a bike. If they weren't I wouldn't be here to make this post.

Changing the infrastructure might help but it would be expensive. Changing people's minds would be mostly free.

[LWolf]

31. A wide scale effort has to include

the infrastructure for everyone. Perhaps we can change people's minds in your area. The rest of the nation, though, is going to be tougher.

[taterguy]

32. But there won't be any support for infrastructure changes unless we change our mentality about cars

It's a vicious (bi)cycle. :)

[The2ndWheel]

23. Promote them by doing it. You can't force people, that's how we ended up here

"There are large employers within two miles that are on roads that are reasonably safe on a bike. There’s a grocery store nearby. There’s a shopping center where I can buy clothes, books, music and other diversions."

But as you point out, it isn't easy. We have to think about getting rid of large employers, grocery stores, and shopping centers. That wouldn't be easy, on probably too many levels to list.

To me, you just have to do it, and that's it. You can't get frustrated if people don't join in. I know, I'm in the same boat. I work for a very small business, and it's 3.5ish miles away from home. I walk 7 miles a day, 5 days a week, usually in any weather(I like walking in the rain and snow...not the heat, but I do it). But, I buy my food from the grocery store or the farmers market, one being a 20 minute walk, the other probably 40 minutes. I also buy the clothes that were probably made by a 7 year old girl in SE Asia from the giant chain stores. It's not easy, and it's tough to fight yourself. Believe me, I know.

I'm still a work in progress, but all you can do is keep doing what you can, and keep trying to get to where you want to be. It has to be voluntary. You can try and convince people, but you have to keep in mind that you might not be right. That's why you can't start playing the force game. It's tough not to play that game if there is something you care about, but once you let go of having to save the world, it gets easier.

[Evoman]

24. Yep, I'm with you.

I've been walking/biking most of my life since I have never owned a car. Just recently, however, I finally caved because I'm looking for work and distributing resumes/surviving Canadian winters on a bike is too hard.

Unfortunately, I've been using the car more than I should. Whereas I used to walk in 0 degress celsius and below, it's been too tempting having a nice heater. Add to that that I twisted my ankle, and walking hurts, and it's a perfect storm for waste. However, your post has made me feel guilty and I am going to start walking/busing again.

See, you can make a difference.

[Skidmore]

25. Well, first of all you are painting with a broad brush...actually

a roller.

First, you must drive a minimun of 20+ miles in any given direction for most employment opportunities AND to buy basic necessities (you know, like food, toilet paper, clothing, etc.). We are in a very rural area with limited ooptions. I don't consider driving over to the convenince mart by the interstate to buy milk a wise way to spend my money, given that every product there is way overpriced. Second, we had local shops here until the big box store came into the nearest urban areas. Now we have not one grocery store, hardware store, etc. Finally, a group of us tried to get something going to start a local grocer and ran into the very real problem that dairies and other producers would not deliver out here for such low volume sales as our little communities would provide. In the meantime, we double up errands. We go into town once a week to make purchase necessities--I buy in bulk as much as possible. My husband, unfortunately, needs to travel in everyday to work. We do not have mass transit, even though there is a railway right across the road from us next to an old depot. I do not understand why we don't have a short line to services all of these outlying communities. We do what we can to conserve everything--transportation and products. What needs to happen at a national level is to get beyond the idea that the only investments to be made in transportation are worthwhile for urban/metropolitan areas.

[MadHound]

27. I also live in a very rural area, and commute everyday.

But there are things that you can do to offset your fuel use. My personal favorite is my scooter
A Bajaj Chetak, it cruises at 55-60mph, it gets 100mpg. I use it everyday that it is above 25 degrees and dry on the roads. My next purchase, when my truck finally dies is to get a diesel pickup and run it on biodiesel that I make. Cheaper that regular diesel(about eighty cents/gallon) and much easier on the environment. It is quite easy to make your own biodiesel, and there are many books out there to help. As far as food goes, why not grow some of your own? Fresh veggies are tastier and better for you, and you won't be contributing to the cross country madness which is modern grocery store produce. Living in the country, you could also set up your own wind turbine and/or solar panels, which pay off in the long run.

There are many things that you can do to save on energy, even when you live in the country. Sure, the good ol' boys might look at you like you're crazy, but pretty soon they get used to you and start asking how they can join in.

[LanternWaste]

28. Although I live quite a ways from my office

Although I live quite a ways from my office, a co-worker and I have been carpooling for almost eight months now.

After crunching the number the first month we did this, we each save about $75.00/month-- and that's just the work commute. If I could find a way to apply carpooling to more of my life, I can only imagine the savings that would result. He and I are both saving the planet approximately 50 gallons of gas a month. It's a start. A small one, but still a start.

And carpooling is an option many, many people have, regardless of the justifications used to say otherwise...