A Rare Point of Disagreement with Waxman: Coal-Fired Plant Moratorium

[CorpGovActivist]

I'm a huge fan of Chairman Waxman, but this will hurt in some key swing states:

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http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1613

Thursday, November 08, 2007
Energy Policy, Environment
Waxman to Introduce Moratorium on Approval of New Coal-Fired Power Plants

Rep. Henry A. Waxman announced at a congressional hearing with EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson that he will introduce legislation that establishes a moratorium on the approval of new coal-fired power plants under the Clean Air Act until EPA finalizes regulations to address the greenhouse gas emissions from these sources. Under this legislation, a Clean Air Act permit for a new coal-fired power plant could not be issued unless the plant uses state-of-the-art technology to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. The bill will also prohibit any person who builds a new coal-fired power plant without carbon controls from receiving allowances under future climate change legislation.
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It's like deja vu all over again from 2000: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=coal+miners%27+doubters+gore

West Virginia's previously-reliable blue Electoral College votes flipped red in 2000 over this issue.

Right now, coal production is booming (driven by the spike in oil prices). Coal production jobs are among the few good jobs in a lot of border/Upper Appalachian states.

I'm pro-environment, and I understand the special role that coal plays in global warming. But emissions mitigation (e.g., scrubbers) and clean coal burning R&D are approaches that don't alienate the persuadable voters in those states. Indeed, those technologies hold out the triple promise of greater energy independence, more American jobs, and a long-term solution to environmental problems.

The timing on this is less than ideal.

- Dave

[Kolesar]

1. There are only about 50,000 coal miners in the US

And the highest estimate I have found for Ohio is 3,000. There are more that that in my office park!

The best idea that I have heard is to create pensions for idled coal miners. An education fund would be nice too. This has been done for longshoremen and industrial workers before.

I would rather have a pension and a chance to start a new career or my own business than to have to work in a dark, sooty, and dangerous coal mine.

[CorpGovActivist]

3. How Many Retired/Idled Miners ...

... who believe that a renewed coal boom would return the heyday?

The only coal mine I've ever been in is a museum piece, yet even close relatives who were permanently disabled in the mines still have a strong affinity for the industry, and react very negatively whenever they hear anything that is "anti-coal."

- Dave

[Kolesar]

37. Well, the coal industry is trying to stoke those fires in Ohio and it is not working

Ohio has long been a state with an "outsized" influence by coal mining. The amount of employment has always been overstated (see my 3000 data). There are a number of mine owners in Ohio like that shithead Bob Murray.

For all their political influence and support by the media like the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the coal industry is in a definite decline in Ohio. People will wax romantically for the days of the auto and steel industry. There is no such romance for dirty coal. The discussions in the governor's energy bill are largely about bidding and alternative sources.

So, which state is more important to the Democrats' electoral college calculations? Ohio or West Virginia with its scant population that about equals Cuyahoga County??

[idgiehkt]

22. really

"Coal production jobs are among the few good jobs in a lot of border/Upper Appalachian states."

Mines like mountain-top removal are so automated they may only employ 10 or 15 people on one site, while destroying whole regions eco-systems utterly and completey FOREVER. We need to get off coal and oil and find alternative energy sources.

[CorpGovActivist]

24. You're Right...

... automation has sharply reduced the number of mining-related jobs. I readily concede that point.

But the jobs that do remain are among the best-paying jobs with the best fringe benefits in those areas. Those jobs are a major piston in the local economy.

There may be other ways to extract energy from coal than burning it. That is some of the most exciting research.

Meanwhile, without a balanced approach that takes into account how these voters will react, we may see an unfortunate "voter offset" that destroys any ability to enact "carbon offsets" and other environmentally-friendly legislation.

- Dave

[texastoast]

2. Coal will never be clean enough

to use long-term. Unless the scrubbers have figured out a way to get rid of the CO2??

:shrug:

[CorpGovActivist]

4. The Atom Will Never Be Split Either...

... and humankind will never reach the Moon.

The chemical structure of coal lends itself to viable clean uses. But it will take significant R&D dollars to unlock that potential.

Because coal production is booming right now (as an alternative to oil), this would be an ideal time to tack on a modest tonnage surcharge to earmark funds for that very R&D.

Also, the strip mined mountain picture breaks my heart as a Mountaineer, but I will say that the eyesore slag heaps of the 70s and 80s have given way to some amazing reclamation (which creates additional jobs on the back end of mineral extraction).

- Dave

[texastoast]

9. Maybe natural chemical processes can change

Maybe they will evolve. But not according to some folks I know who have been working with energy companies over 30 years on the CO2 issue.

And there would never have been a single reclamation effort without the treehugging dirt worshippers.

[CorpGovActivist]

10. Local Efforts ...

... played a large role in forcing the reclamation regs, too. When you live next to a slag pile, it tends to make you politically-involved.

- Dave

[texastoast]

18. I don't know

I lived across the street from an unfenced sludge pit in the oilfield. The last thing any of those folks wanted to hear was about how the oil bidness pollutes the land. And the oil bidness was mighty outraged about the concept of at least fencing the pits. They didn't want to spend the money. They blamed the stupid cows for falling in? Can you believe it? I can. I was working at the office listening to the field reps laughing about it.

Even when the aquifer became poisoned to the point the cattle were dying off, people shunned the old Texas family who brought suit against the 55 oil companies who had destroyed the water.

What most people do NOT want to acknowledge is that, gee, we really won't be able to eat money.

[CorpGovActivist]

19. Coal Operators...

... kicked and screamed too, but many communities were willing to rock the boat to get the reclamation laws/regs passed.

- Dave

[idgiehkt]

23. "strip-mining"?

puleeze. Haven't you heard they just blow up the whole damn mountain anymore? And Reclamation always has been and always will be BULLSHIT. My bullshit-ometer is going right off the scale reading your posts, I'm starting to think you wandered in here by mistake.

[CorpGovActivist]

25. Mind If I Ask...

... where you're from?

I grew up in WV, have family throughout the border states/Upper Appalachia, and travel there pretty frequently.

Some reclamation efforts have been jokes; but there are some successes, too.

It turns my stomach to see a mountain laid bare/denuded. I grew up in those mountains. But I've also driven by places that used to be eyesores, and have been astonished to see the reclamation project. The "before" and "after" can be quite dramatic.

- Dave

[Lugnut]

35. There are no mountaintops blowing up here.

My husband is a UMWA coal miner who works on a power shovel that is used for strip mining. Contrary to popular belief there are still anthractie coal mining operations working today in Northeastern PA. A large percentage of old strip mines have been reclaimed to eliminate the ravages of over a hundred years of anthracite mining in this area.

[CorpGovActivist]

38. God Bless Your Husband!

My whole family is UMWA, and I was able to go to college in part on the UMWA Lorin E. Kerr Scholarship.

: )

Amazing what some of the new reclamation tech can do, huh? Still, it's a shock to see a denuded mountain while operations are underway.

- Dave

[focusfan]

5. We exhale CO2,I wonder why no one talks about that

Trees breath CO2 and exhale oxygen or at least that is what I was taught in elementry school many many years ago,maybe we need to think more about over population.

[texastoast]

6. Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding !!

The unmentionable issue in any political campaign.

Urban sprawl, the lust for convenience, and not looking ahead.

We could use some lessons from the Native Americans. Those people were smart enough to know you can't tax the land to the point it won't support your seventh generation.

Small villages that can sustain themselves. We will go back to that in the not too distant future, but not without a lot of suffering first.

[focusfan]

16. Thanks I usually get flamed for my opinions

[CorpGovActivist]

21. My Cherokee Ancestors...

... embraced technology, and adapted to new ones they encountered, to enhance their ability to live a sustainable existence.

- Dave

[texastoast]

40. The Cherokee tribes

were the quickest to succumb to the trade beads and to own slaves. I'm Cherokee too.

[Thothmes]

36. Tax the Land

I suspect that is was due more to a lack of technological advancement than to a support of sound environmental principals. JMO

[texastoast]

39. I'm sorry

but I must disagree heartily. And I'm not even going to begin to have this discussion until you take on the years of research into their anthropological development that I have. Had you done so, you would never had made that post.

[spanone]

7. it's time to care about the environment

[CorpGovActivist]

8. I Do, Very Much...

... in fact, I wish there weren't an ounce of coal under those beautiful West Virginia hills.

But I think even Al Gore would agree that there is an economically-viable, politically-savvy way to still be a true-blue environmentalist.

How do you enact environmentally-friendly laws and regulations? Control Congress and the White House.

How do you do that? Win elections.

How do you do that? Well, you don't do it by alienating purple state voters' most vital economic concerns.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

11. A Carbon-Offset Post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2239166&mesg_id=2239166

; )

- Dave

[defendandprotect]

12. Let's give them some better jobs ---- GREEN work ---

[CorpGovActivist]

13. Well, Think Fast...

... you have less than a year to produce those jobs in time for them to affect ballots cast in those states.

- Dave

[defendandprotect]

34. Great --- !!! Let's make some electric cars --- GM doesn't want to --!!!

Go see: "Who Stole the Electric Car?" ...

We can subsidize both ends of this --- manufacture and purchase --- !!!

Replace every gas-guzzler on the road in five years -- !!!

That will cure peak oil ---

[yardwork]

14. I agree with Waxman. This ban is essential.

We must face the truth of climate change and start doing something about it.

[CorpGovActivist]

15. I Agree with Him on the End Goal, Disagree on This Approach...

... and this timing.

You can bet your bottom dollar that this will be a major topic of discussion on talk radio, local networks, and in local papers throughout border states/Upper Appalachia tomorrow, and will become a major theme in primary questioning and general election politics in those states.

- Dave

[w8liftinglady]

17. my representative is bought and sold by the coal plants here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51236-2005Apr13.html

[CorpGovActivist]

20. "All Politics Is Local": from Today's Charleston Daily Mail...

... to bear out the point of my original post, regarding the effect today's news may have in coal-producing swing states:

http://www.dailymail.com/story/Opinion/2007110814/West-Virginia-does-know-coal/

That's the key Op-Ed piece today in the state capital.

- Dave

[MasonJar]

26. Coal needs to go for the survival of the living organisms on the planet.

I say that despite the fact that my brother, aunt and I own coal revenues in the eastern mountains of Kentucky. Why should I for a few thousand dollars or even a few million (not likely) degrade the world I and the present and future residents of Earth live in? Would my life be easier? Maybe. Would my conscience be easier? No way.

[CorpGovActivist]

28. What If a Scientific Breakthrough...

... allowed coal's chemical properties to be used in a clean fashion for energy?

With the spike in tonnage clearing the tipples right now, I say tack on a surtax and use it for R&D that could yield: (1) energy independence; (2) good jobs in America; and (3) a significantly cleaner environment.

- Dave

P.S. Is that MasonJar full of moonshine? I have lots of family in Pike County, KY, and some were moonshiners!

: )

[mmonk]

27. It would have to be a clean coal initiative for me to support

much reliance on it. I disagree with Waxman on another matter. In fact, I lost a lot of respect for him.

[CorpGovActivist]

29. What's the Other Issue? n/t

[mmonk]

30. His promise to Sibel Edmonds for hearings that he made

before the democrats took over in the last election. He now has reneged.

[CorpGovActivist]

31. Interesting; See Links...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=sibel+edmonds+waxman

- Dave

[mmonk]

32. I've been in contact with

Washington correspondents in the print media about it and also a CBS affiliate reporter, but they just don't do anything. A lot of people have called and faxed Waxman's office since he became Chairman (of the Oversight committee), and after a long silence, he started pulling a Gonzales "I don't recall" moment.

[pinto]

33. Looks as if it only stops new plants that don't have scrubbers. (?)