Naval Academy Admissions

[erpowers]

Does anyone think the Naval Academy should either rework its admissions process or raise its admissions standards, especially for the student athletes? I just read about the story of Kyle Eckel who plays for the New England Patriots and graduated from the Naval Academy. Eckel was separated from the Navy after graduating from the Naval Academy. I do not know the reason for the separation, but it does not seem to be one of those that are given so graduates can play professional sports. The Navy did not want to give specifics as to why Eckel was dismissed, but would only say it was an involuntary "administrative separation". According to Wikipedia Eckel told the Miami Herald that he "was given the opportunity to submit a letter of resignation, which was accepted."

Eckel is not the only case of people who have been accepted to the Naval Academy either being kicked out of the Academy or being kicked out of the military after graduation. I have heard a number of stories about Naval Academy football players getting in trouble while they are in college. In terms of getting into trouble I am not talking about kids being kids, I am talking about assault issues. In addition, Eckel might be called into court for a case dealing with another Naval Academy student who is charged with sexual assault.

So, is the Naval Academy doing enough to ensure that it is getting the best people to attend it university? Do they need to do more to make sure the school is represented better?

[underpants]

1. More info on Eckel here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=215&topic_id=58281&mesg_id=58281

[underpants]

3. Okay let me add this-the $96K seems awfully low as a payback amount

the amount of training that Naval Academy people are said to recieve has to be more than this. I find it hard to believe.

That being said things do happen in those 4-5 years and the screening process at USNA and the other academies does seem to be very effective. Maybe an overhaul isn't needed but a case like this does seem to warrant a good looking in.

Oh and let me say this-I was told by several NCO's who taught at West Point that some of those guys DO go there just to keep their playing careers and hopes and dreams alive.

[MADem]

7. It's in the ballpark, that amount. It might be a hair higher, the total.

But perhaps they offset some of the costs.

Economies of scale, after all. This is a government enterprise, not a private university with payrolls to worry about. Your tax dollars at work...

[Captain Hilts]

2. You often have to pay tuition if you're kicked out.

They've had some problem with football players. Some ran a car-theft ring a while ago.

But they still have to meet pretty high admission standards and undergo vigorous academics. Where they get treated differently is when they are permitted to attend Naval Academy Prep School for a year first. NAPS is supposed to be for sailors who receive "fleet appointments" and haven't been in school for a few years. It shouldn't be used for athletes.

[jljamison]

4. is this limited to athletes?

or maybe there are non athletes who are requested to resign, but we just don't hear about it because it wouldn't make national news like an athlete who all of a sudden shows up on a pro roster?

[SharkSquid]

5. The standards remain the same

except for the weight issues. As far as their "moral" screening, you never know what kind of nut you are going to get until you crack it. And the academy is pretty good at cracking nuts. Most academy guys I have met in the fleet are kind of lame anyways.

You want to talk about standards, do a google search about the AF Academy, they are the originial scandal school.

[MADem]

6. This has been happening for DECADES. It's not a new phenom at all.

David Robinson is another famous guy that played and, in essence, scampered. He fulfilled his duties in the reserves by doing a few halfassed recruiting ads, and they gave him MASSIVE amounts of ACDU credit to do a lousy thirty second piece. There WAS resentment about it, too. In fact, it was (ironically) Jim Webb, the now-Democratic sentator from VA, who, at the end of a large back-and-forth, let the guy off the hook. There was some discussion within the higher corridors of power about it (translation: big huge pissing contest) but SECNAV Webb was the guy who was tasked to sign the paperwork at the end of the day. I'm not suggesting he was thrilled at doing it, FWIW.

The snippet, below, is a bit disingenuous (probably his mother/manager wrote it), as he was a Supply Officer, and they need them EVERYWHERE. He easily could have done a career both afloat and ashore. There's no requirement that one be sub-qualed, and Supply Officers for aviation units don't do any cockpit time. His first duty station, as I remember, was a support vessel, like CANOPUS or GOMPERS...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Robinson_(basketball)

The Navy excused him from three years of the normal five years of his military commitment following graduation from the Naval Academy because his height prohibited his deployment in many roles (e.g. aviation, the submarine corps, and many ships). Nonetheless, Robinson continued to serve in a reserve role with the Navy and was regularly featured in recruiting materials for the service. Despite the nickname "Admiral", Robinson's actual rank upon fulfilling his service commitment was Lieutenant, Junior Grade.<1>

[erpowers]

8. The Difference With Eckel

I am not try to be contradictory, but the issue I have with Eckel is that he was dismissed from the Navy. Robinson was allowed to leave to play professional sports. In the case of Eckel he was involuntarily dismissed. I think a number of Naval Academy students and graduates get dismissed from the Navy for poor behavior. I am just wondering if the Naval Academy should change some of its admissions criteria in order to get better students.

[SharkSquid]

9. I refer to post #5

The NA is still very good with admissions if people have character flaws they are generally weeded out.

[MADem]

10. They don't recruit them to be students, though, really. And they know it.

They recruit them to "Go Navy, Beat Army." They struggle like hell to get them through the simplest possible curriculum, they have upperclassmen mentors to coddle them along, the professors are told to "go easy" on them, and it's a foregone conclusion that they aren't gonna actually 'keep' them. They go into the reserves, and they make recruiting commercials. If they're in a team that wins the playoffs, they go on a tour to remote bases and sign (baseballs/basketballs/footballs) and autographs.

The Academies do the same shit that the Big Sports Colleges do--they just require basic literacy in their candidates...but not much more.

The vetting process at the Academies is actually quite strict. But when you take kids from 18-22, and treat them like fifteen year olds in a strict boarding school for four years, you are going to get adult bodies with a fifteen year old maturity level. These kids are not permitted to live like college students, sleeping in and missing class, having to take personal responsibility for skipping that quiz or missing that test, and then having to con the professor for a make-up opportunity. They're regimented, treated like children, and that's what they graduate--children.

I've had Academy types work for me. They're either very good, follow all orders, cross all T's, dot each I, or they suck--they don't know how to run their own lives or divisions without someone standing over them all day barking orders. There aren't many who fall in the middle ground, in my experience.

[Didereaux]

11. Actually the Naval Academy is probably the best of the lot...

The Air Force Academy is simply a shambles! It was taken over several years back by fundamentalist religious types. This is TRUE, the news archives are quite literally packed with references to this phenomena. Cadets are subjected to extraordinary pressures to join evangelical sects and if they do not are often run out of the academy.

A little noticed fact is that the Navy Admirals have been and continue to be, the sole opposers to Cheney and the Neo-CONS.

Some argue that the admirals are the only thing that lay between the Constitution and a complete Neo-CON coup. Be that as it may, it is probably closer to truth than I care to dwell on.