Should gay men and lesbians be allowed to serve openly in the U.S. military? (DU THIS POLL)

[skipos]

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/military-gay-policy-faces-new-opposition/20071130110409990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

62% yes
35% no

[madeline_con]

1. K&R

:kick:

edited to spell kick correctly. :blush:

[NMMNG]

2. Done

Should gay men and lesbians be allowed to serve openly in the U.S. military?
Yes 62% 19,817
No 35% 11,132
I'm not sure 4% 1,251

Note on Poll Results
Total Votes: 32,200

[kitp]

3. done

62% yes
35% no
4% not sure

(ps that's 101%)

[Double T]

4. Yes ABSOLUTELY!

It is time for this wacky country to come out of the stone age.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SharkSquid]

11. Huh? n/t

[LostinVA]

56. WTF?

[unkachuck]

6. done....yes 62%....no 35%....n/t

[Kutjara]

7. No they shouldn't.

Nor, for that matter, should straight people. America has proven that it can't be trusted to have a military without posing a danger to the rest of the world. Therefore, nobody should be allowed to serve and the military should be disbanded.

If we ask nicely, maybe the Canadians will take us under their strategic umbrella.

[SharkSquid]

12. Hahahahha

Oh your not joking...

[uppityperson]

42. Good. Thank you.

[stillcool]

8. done..

why do AOL polls seem like FOX polls?

[donheld]

9. done

:bounce:

[crim son]

10. Done. Of course they should be, if they want to.

But what will happen to them if they do? I'm afraid they'd be targets, just as they are in civilian life, only in the military all the bigots are armed.

[SharkSquid]

14. YOu underestimate the quality of Miltary personnel n/t

[noamnety]

26. I don't think crim son's underestimating anything.

It's no big secret that we have a systemic problem with male soldiers raping the female soldiers. It's no big secret that the majority of women soldiers experience sexual harassment from the men they work with. And it's no big secret that domestic violence among soldiers is a huge problem. It's also widely known that the military is having a problem with neo-nazis and hate groups.

That doesn't mean all or even most military people do these things, but the reality is that as a woman in the military, the odds are at 90% that you will be sexually harassed on the job, and 30% that you will be sexually assaulted.

It'd be silly to assume that a gay or lesbian would be immune from harassment or assault.

I support their right to serve. And I recognize that crim son's concern is entirely valid. When I talk to women about joining, if they are determined to go in, and I know I can't talk them out of it, I tell the statistics and tell them to at least take a self defense course before they go in. Being realistic about the risks is part of truth-in-recruiting, and part of making sure they are prepared to defend themselves.

It's entirely within the realm of possibility that a lesbian would be a larger target for rape than a heterosexual woman who is married. It's entirely possible that a gay man, if assigned to some unit having problems with hate groups, would be a target. The military culture promotes hypermasculinity, and has a higher rate of gendered violence than the civilian population.

[crim son]

27. I believe I accurately estimate the quality of human beings in general.

Further, there has been a fair amount of media attention given to what can happen to Military personnel when they are overstressed and/or inadequately trained. Persons in the military are no worse and no better than anybody else.

[uppityperson]

43. This from one who talked about military prejudice against women "rotten apple of pregnancy".

If you think so highly of the military regarding sexual orientation, why do you think so lowly regarding sexual physiology?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2369554&mesg_id=2370377

[SharkSquid]

49. Uppity I explained this before

ON the referenced board, you are DRASTICALLY blowing up what I say.

Uppity people are mostly assholes BTW.

But if you are proud of it go ahead.

[uppityperson]

55. simply repeating what you wrote, posting link to what you wrote.

Not blowing anything up, but providing link to your words. Are you calling me an asshole? I want to make sure that's what you mean.

[Toasterlad]

48. Having Served in the US Military Myself, I Can Assure You the Fear is Justified.

The military and professional sports are the largest bastions of homophobia left in the United States. Any openly gay soldier or sailor would absolutely be a target of violence and intimidation. However, like all ignorant behavior, it must eventually be challenged to be eliminated. Allowing gays to serve openly is a rubicon that must - and inevitably will - be crossed. At some point in the future, children will be taught about the intolerance of our time and be amazed that human beings could be so ignorant. But we have to live through it, first.

[SharkSquid]

50. The military adapts very well

faster and better than civilian society IMHO. That was my point, I hope I clarified my opinion on this subject.

[Thothmes]

58. Think racial integration

A good example. The armed services are probably the most heavily racialy integrated institution in the United States. If the President orders that Gays and Lesbians be allowed to serve openly, the armed services will carry out that order. It will be messy for a while but it will get done. Now the question is which Presidential Candidate would have the back bone to impliment the policy.

[SharkSquid]

60. Exactly my point. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. the thing is there are already gays in the army. dont ask dont tell just makes it easier for

homophobes to target them.

if you are afraid of being fired, you would be less likely to point out if someone is hurting you.

:hi:

[PDJane]

13. excuse me.

There are still enough morons to make up 35% of the population?

I keep forgetting about that quirk....gays can get married in the Canadian armed forces.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. voted...results thus far --

Poll Results
Should gay men and lesbians be allowed to serve openly in the U.S. military?
Yes 62% 19,899
No 35% 11,185
I'm not sure 4% 1,253

[gatorboy]

16. Again, there's that +30% were doomed to stay hostage to.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

18. Take your stupid bigoted bullshit elsewhere. ("oogling" LMAO!!)

What a fucking disgraceful way to think.

[yardwork]

20. So you automatically assume that gay men make unwelcome advances?

It sounds like you can't trust yourself to be alone in a room full of women without ogling them and making sexual advances to them. Right?

Every heterosexual man would just naturally ogle and make unwelcome sexual advances on any woman, right?

No? That's not right? Then why do you assume that gay men would do that?

You are SO unwelcome to DU.

[Bluebear]

21. That's "oogling" to you

:silly:

[yardwork]

35. My freeper is far from fluent - I'm working hard, but it's a difficult language to master.

It's so irregular.

:P

[gatorboy]

22. Are you sure you weren't just giving out the wrong signals?

[Maven]

30. STFU.

Seriously.

[David__77]

19. They should be able to, but I hope they don't.

I wouldn't ever encourage anyone to join the armed forces with how they're being horribly misused.

[bellasgrams]

24. I think it should stay don't ask don't tell

for their own safety. Too many macho guys would like to hurt or possibly kill a gay just for being gay. Especially now that they have lowered there standards for the military. Besides, it's no ones business.

[noamnety]

32. logic problems with your last line.

"it's no one's business."

If your orientation is nobody's business, that means the heterosexuals should serve under don't ask don't tell also. So if they have a spouse or a girlfriend/boyfriend, they shouldn't be allowed to mention them by name, have them live on post, bring them to military functions, etc.

Oops, that doesn't work.

The reason it doesn't work is that there's a difference between saying "it's not your business" (my right to control what private information I release about myself), and putting a gag order on another person.

It's not your business what religion I am. <-- okay statement.
You are not allowed to tell people what religion you are. <-- not an okay statement.

[yardwork]

37. Here's a news flash - plenty of gay men are "macho guys."

If gays and lesbians were allowed to serve openly, I think that most of the United States would be astounded at the large number who are currently serving. It might be the bigots who were scared, for a change.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. dont ask dont tell doesnt protect. it adds institutionalized homophobia

to personal homophobia. doubling someone's chances of being killed for being gay

[LostinVA]

57. So, according to you, it's okay for heterosexuals to talk about their lives, but not gays?

Plenty of gay men are "macho guys," and military law will protect them from harassment. Currently, they're subject to harassment without protection, because coming forward about harassment often leads into an investigation about their sexual orientation.

We're the only NATO country, aside from Turkey, that doesn't allow openly gay troops to serve. Our troops already serve with openly gay soldiers the rest of the NATO countries.

[bonito]

23. A wedge issue for homophobes imo

[patrice]

25. Done - Fun blog! nt

[Renew Deal]

28. Yes, the new policy should be called "Act dumb, get fired."

People work with openly gay and closeted gay people in every other job and environment. Why should the military be different? There are already policies and laws about sexual harassment in the workplace. Eliminate don't ask, don't tell and follow the existing law.

[yardwork]

39. Exactly. But then the military might have to address the high level of sexual harrassment

that is currently tolerated among heterosexuals serving in the military. They already hide the large number of rapes that occur - or even blame the victims.

[cynthia]

29. with 32,591 votes in

Yes 61% 20,043
No 35% 11,291
Unsure 4% 1,257

[spag68]

31. It's just midevil

that even 35% of people still have a question about this.

[Tom Joad]

33. People who have ever participated in any sexual activities should be excluded from the US military

or even thought about it.

This would make the world a much safer place.

[yardwork]

36. That'll do it. That's the ticket.

[me b zola]

34. 62% say yes

:thumbsup:

[IndianaJones]

38. I would support it IF...

we could maybe call it something else.

[yardwork]

40. ....

:hi:

Edited to add: I don't know why you don't get DUzies on a regular basis.

[IndianaJones]

41. getting shot at is a sacred thing to many Americans. nt.

[ruggerson]

44. Civil service?

n/t

[IndianaJones]

45. civil soldiering. nt.

[ruggerson]

46. domestic defense

n/t

[IndianaJones]

47. seperate but equal is as American as apple pie and bigotry. lets get a taco. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. you have guts to post this w.out a sarcasm tag

but your pointing out how this argument relates to the marriage vs. civil union argument (that liberals like to support as well) is brilliant.

kudos.

:thumbsup:

[0007]

54. voted yes

[Fleshdancer]

59. how do you ask someone to put their lives on the line inside of a closet?

I never understood don't ask don't tell. It's absolutely absurd.