What should be done with Leeland Eisenberg, the Rochester hostage-taker?

[MADem]

Poll question: What should be done with Leeland Eisenberg, the Rochester hostage-taker?

For the purposes of discussion only, without actually predetermining the verdict, that is.

We'll dispense with the possibility of a "NOT GUILTY" verdict--because if he were found NOT GUILTY, he'd go free and we'd do nothing with him.

Let's assume he's found guilty of taking hostages for six hours in Rochester, NH--what do you believe should happen to him subsequently:

[MADem]

1. I need to credit God23, who came up with the idea for this poll. NT

[God23]

2. Thanks for the poll....

Given the punitive attitudes that seem to permeate our American society today, I thought this to be a pretty important question to be discussed in a progressive democratic atmosphere. One of the calls he made was to CNN saying he was looking for mental health care but could not afford it.

[MADem]

5. As an advocate for "Guilty AND Insane" verdicts, it's a topic that interests me, too. NT

[Breeze54]

8. AA is free and NH has many resources

for mental health care.

http://www.naminh.org/

New Hampshire Resources
http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/publications/allpubs/stateresourceguides/NewHampshire01.asp


Riverbend Community Mental Health

http://www.riverbendcmhc.org/

Welcome to the website of Riverbend Community Mental Health, a non-profit community organization serving the people of central New Hampshire since 1963 with responsive and accessible mental health services. A United Way agency.

Riverbend Community Mental Health serves children, adults, families and elders as well as
health care professionals, community organizations and employers in Merrimack County
and surrounding communities:

We provide behavioral health services, education and support to benefit:

* Adults and children
* Individuals and families
* People from all incomes and walks of life

Riverbend's programs and services provided more than $2.1 million in free or discounted care
to members of the community during Fiscal Year 2004.

[piedmont]

10. AA? Are you joking?

What's their recovery rate?

[Breeze54]

11. They have counseling and it helps some people and

they have resources or can give resources for counseling.
They also can advocate for someone to get into a counseling program.

I have no idea what the rate of success is but it's better than taking people hostage.

[God23]

3. Eisenberg had sued Catholic Church, alleging abuse

Associated Press - December 1, 2007 3:35 PM ET

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - The New Hampshire man charged with holding five people hostage at a Hillary Rodham Clinton campaign office sued the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston in 2002 alleging he had been molested by a priest years earlier.

Court records and published reports say 46-year-old Leeland Eisenberg of Somersworth grew up in Groton, Massachusetts, and spent time in prison in Massachusetts. The Boston Globe reported today that he was 1 of more than 500 victims of the Roman Catholic clergy sexual abuse scandal who received payments in a landmark 2003 settlement with the Boston Archdiocese.

Eisenberg's lawyer in the case did not return messages from The Associated Press about the case and its resolution.

In his 2002 lawsuit in Suffolk County Superior Court, Eisenberg sued former Archbishop Bernard Law, alleging that a priest at St. Catherine Church in Westford, Massachusetts, molested him in the early 1980s. The priest denied abusing Eisenberg, who claimed the abuse when he was about 21.

More: http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=7436770

[MADem]

6. He didn't tell CNN that was a reason for his actions, though, did he? NT

[Jackpine Radical]

12. You absolutely wouldn't believe the rate of sexaul abuse histories among

the general criminal population. Data are hard to come by, and all estimates are underestimates, but I betcha that more than 50% of the general criminal population in any male prison were abused or molested in childhood. Most of them do not readily admit it. My impression comes from having conducted in-depth psychological evaluations of more than 2,000 criminals.

[MADem]

14. I believe that.

This guy, though, has just been a minor actor to this point--stalking his wife, getting picked up for DUI, that kind of crap. This is a major break to felony status, at a late age, too.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. I don't doubt that he's personality disordered (probly Borderline)

and likely PTSD but I really doubt he'd qualify for NGI or the like.

[H2O Man]

16. He was in prison for rape.

Most people consider that a serious crime.

http://bostonherald.com/news/national/northeast/view.bg?articleid=1048162

[MADem]

17. Whoa, Nellie!! I stand corrected, then! Didn't know that...NT

[God23]

25. Things add up.

One thing on top of another. His abuse, his alcoholism, his divorce...

And those are only the things that are public.

At a late age?

It takes only a certain amount of stressors to break any one of us to some sort of madness.

[Jackpine Radical]

27. That doesn't automatically mean NGMDD.

[JDPriestly]

18. Same for the female homeless population

[Jackpine Radical]

24. Probly closer to 95% there.

[H2O Man]

4. It would be an error

for anyone on DU to assume that he has a mental illness that requires hospitalization, based upon what has been reported thus far. He has served time for violent crime, and was facing a court date yesterday, according to the media. Both the incarceration and the court date were for crimes against a woman.

He had reportedly been drinking for three days. He planned his crime the night before, and he told a family member that morning to "watch the news."

Certainly, he has issues. But that does not equal being one of the many good and decent people who suffer from a serious and persistent mental illness, and who does not get adequate treatment.

Just as there are mentally ill people incarcerated who should be in a psychiatric hospital, there are also many anti-social people who have learned to manipulate the system, to avoid legal consequences for their crimes. They tend to act out as court dates come closer.

It is possible that he is seriously mentally ill. It is also possible that he is an alcoholic, anti-social malingerer. Let the prosecution and defense teams have him evaluated before concluding that he is either a victim of the system, or that he should be in jail.

[Turbineguy]

7. But....

I want to judge him now and without too many facts!

What a party pooper you are!:toast:

[God23]

23. LOL...

Shhhhhh. Let the punitive among us have their ounce of flesh.

[God23]

19. In my humble opinion, the very evidence of his actions cries mental illness

rather than criminal enterprise.

Add to that your exclusivity of alcohol and a mental illness. One may precipitate the other and most certainly they can cohabit the same individual at the same time.

The "anti social" who are imprisoned are not there because they like prison food. They are there because something in them has steered them to be antisocial. There is an answer somewhere to alleviate much of this suffering. It hasn't been found yet, but it is there.

We live in a complex world with complex personalities, most of whom we may never know. We are also "children of god." and although I am an atheist, I love the nom de 'plum. We are, each and every one of us, an important piece of the puzzle that is the life we all now inhabit. We are all god. We are all the villain.

We are only each other and our families.

Please let compassion guide you.

[H2O Man]

20. Actually

you are the only one of us who said anything about the "exclusivity of alcohol and a mental illness." I wouldn't say or hint at anything that inaccurate. I said that he had reportedly been drinking for three days, including yesterday. There is no accurate way to turn that into my saying anything about "exclusivity."

I believe in viewing the situation yesterday in a sober and objective manner. If you want to identify yoursel;f as part of "the villain" from yesterday's events, that's fine with me. I don't.

[God23]

21. I don't understand....

How you ascertained that I was Identifying myself with anyone, villain or hero.

However, to clarify my points, the man had definite mental problems. They were most likely amplified by his drinking. His Drinking may have been amplified by his mental illness.

If the pre-existing conditions did not exist, the incident would have never happened.

(BTW, I love your posts)


Wait... You said "you are the only one of us who said anything about the...." In reference to my earlier statement of the exclusivity. One: Who is "us?" Two: the inference was laid by your original statements as that the man was drunk and that was the crux of the problem...

Either way, I want you to know that I consider this argument with you an honor.

Peace.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. You're assuming he would be found competent

to stand trial?

OK, let's stipulate that.

The remaining mental health issue is not whether or not he has a mental illness, or even whether he has a psychosis. It is whether or not his mental illness is of such a character as to render him Not Guilty by reason of Mental disease or Defect. The specific test for that depends upon state law. The more common (and more modern) one, used in New York, would be some version of the American Law Institute Standard, which says more-or-less that he may not be found guilty if he has a mental disease or defect that renders him incapable of either a) understanding right and wrong, or b) conforming his behavior to the requirements of the law.

That said, I believe that if he qualifies for an NGMD (Not Guilty by Reason of Mental Defect) defense, he should be found not guilty and should then receive appropriate treatment under secure conditions that will preserve the safety of the community.

However, I doubt that he will meet the ALI NGMD criteria.

[MADem]

22. All I am assuming is that he isn't found "NOT GUILTY." Everything else is up for grabs.

Including the NGMD scenarios you posit.

[agincourt]

13. Withhold his paycheck,

from Karl Rove for starters.

[rucky]

26. What is his history of mental illness?

Sounds to me like this issue was planted by the press to take the heat off of RW extremism.

[MADem]

28. Oh, please--planted by the press? Paranoid, much???

Here ya go. Did they plant this, too?

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071201/FRONTPAGE/712010382

Leeland Eisenberg, the 47-year-old Somersworth man accused of holding hostages at a Hillary Clinton campaign office for more than five hours last night, was well known to the local police and had a history of mental illness and criminal convictions, according to police statements, news reports and court documents. .... Divorce papers filed this week said Eisenberg had been charged with criminal mischief and violating a protective order, according to the Associated Press. The document said that the divorce was the result of irreconcilable differences. It said Eisenberg abused alcohol and drugs, and verbally abused and threatened his wife.

Eisenberg's history of mental illness and violence appears to go back to his childhood.

According to a lawsuit Eisenberg filed in 2002, he had been abused by his "violent, alcoholic father," and lost his mother by the time he was 21. Around 1982 or 1983, he was living in abandoned cars in Ayer, Mass., when he was taken in by a local Catholic parish. The lawsuit accuses a priest there of molesting and raping Eisenberg. The Monitor was unable to determine the outcome of the lawsuit last night.

The suit also says that a week after he fled the church, Eisenberg "attempted to take his own life by jumping off a bridge in Ayer, Massachusetts. The Plaintiff was taken by ambulance to the hospital and was later sent to a psychiatric facility for observation and treatment."

In that suit, and a habeus corpus petition filed in 1995, Eisenberg indicates that he was formerly known as Ralph E. Woodward Jr.

[rucky]

29. Thanks for the link

I guess this is the price I pay for getting my news from DU.