Employers: Lose weight or else pay more on health insurance

[Herman Munster]

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_obese.5982600dec01,0,2198246.story?coll=all-hg-hed

Looking for new ways to trim the fat and boost workers' health, some employers are starting to make overweight employees pay if they don't slim down.

Others, citing growing medical costs tied to obesity, are offering fit workers lucrative incentives that shave thousands of dollars a year off health care premiums.

In one of the boldest moves yet, a hospital chain in Indiana last month said it decided on the stick rather than the carrot.

Starting in 2009, Clarian Health Partners will charge employees as much as $30 every two weeks unless they meet weight, cholesterol and blood-pressure guidelines that the company deems healthy.

''At first, I was mad when I thought I would be charged $30 for being overweight,'' said Courtney Jackson, 28, a customer service representative at Clarian. ''But when I found out it was going to be broken into segments -- like just $10 for being overweight -- it sounded better.''

Jackson said she was going to try to slim down before the plan took effect. ''If I still have weight to lose when it starts,'' she said, ''I'll deserve to pay the $10.''

[jpgray]

1. Since overweight folks are not a despised minority comparable to smokers

This will generate outrage. :D In my view both should. Are sky divers next? Those with speeding tickets? Lots of risk factors out there.

[SeattleGirl]

2. Indeed.

Perhaps we should all just wrap ourselves in bubble wrap, let the government decide what we should eat, drink, and do, and then we'd all be safe, and nobody would ever die.

:sarcasm:

[bbgrunt]

6. your statement that the "overweight are not a despised

minority comparable to smokers" is really not true. Just ask any teen who is a bit chunky. They are shunned every day of their lives. They are forgiven only if they become football stars or sumo wrestlers. The females have no means of escaping the hard core prejudice and reprisals--except maybe anorexia.

[jpgray]

7. The two aren't really comparable, are they? Sorry.

It's a different stigma in each case, but I think as most people are not smokers, it is easier to ignore unreasonable infringements such as being barred from employment on the basis of cigarette use alone. As far more people are overweight (or have a friend or loved one who is), it will be a lot less ignorable.

[bbgrunt]

19. well, there may be

semantic differences, but I think about 25% of the population are smokers (maybe less these days) and about the same percent are considered significantly overweight--so I'm not sure the numbers are really the source of any comfort in this regard. Likewise, there is and has been considerable employment discrimination against the overweight--and has been going on for a much longer time than the hysteria about smoking. I recall weight requirements for working for ma bell in the 1960's in jobs that had nothing to do with public interaction.

I'm just saying that while there may be different causes for such discrimination and stigmas, the effects have been very similar for the two groups. In fact, the overweight can never escape the discrimination while those who smoke can usually choose when to exhibit their socially condemned behavior. The fat can't hide. In many ways fat discrimination has been more intense and long-lasting than the discrimination against smokers.

I'm not picking a fight, just trying to clarify my objection to your statement that they are not comparable.

[jpgray]

24. I definitely agree with you--I was a bit too flip in my original statement

:hi:

[The Straight Story]

3. Freedom went out the window years ago, and people on the left applauded it

"When what you do in your home affects my health care, your freedom is gone and your ass is mine" worked for smokers, will work for everything else as well. And we bitch about bush and his freedom hating ways.

When we tie all our lives together we start to lose freedoms by the ton. Reminds me of the religious right telling people that playing with yourself causes blindness, and wanting to be in your bedroom. We bitched about the right wanting to be in our homes, then turn around and endorse the same in the name of the almighty dollar.

One has the god of the bible to guide them, one has money....

Yeah, I got a flamesuit on hand :)

[MADem]

10. Well, next up is the "No Fucking" brigade--it passes diseases, you see!

And ya can't trust them condoms, now, can ya?

I agree with you. Education is one thing, nannying something else entirely.

[TahitiNut]

16. You got it. Smokers and now fatties ... our lepers. Pile on, folks. Fuck tolerance.

:puke:

It's not hard enough on folks to have health problems and lowered life expectancy ... gotta go after their dough!!

Self-righteous fucks unite! :grr:

[seabeyond]

17. this is where i went. cant stand up for me keeping a job.... screw the fat

the chronically ill, those that get regular perscriptions. get 'em all. that is what people whee demanding when they allowed the attack on the smoker per employers rights. that ole slippery slope everyone was telling us wasnt there but was obvious and in their face.

[The Straight Story]

28. Hell I remember some saying there was no such thing as a slippery slope

Maybe they were right, it looks more like a fucking cliff we dropped off :)

[seabeyond]

29. fucking cliff we dropped off .... yup. they were suckers. walked right into employers

insurance and govt rule hands..... in all their hysteria

[gateley]

4. I know non-overweight people whose blood pressure and cholesterol readings

might not comply. So since they're breaking it down they'd only have to pay an additional $10 or $20 for a medical condition? That's REALLY discriminatory and it sounds fucking illegal. If it's not, it should be.

[silverojo]

14. Even if you're not overweight

These are very, very dangerous health issues that need to be treated. HBP and high cholesterol are both treatable conditions, not medical ailments. (Except in rare cases of liver disease, etc.--and even at that, if you're not getting treatment, you're risking your very life.)

People who neglect their health are one of the factors driving health costs up so high. Preventative care is extremely important, to avoid a great deal of pain and suffering--it's not just about expense.

If we don't do something now, we're going to end up with a generation of people who will live SHORTER lives than their parents.

I'm no fan of insurance companies, but on the rare occasions they do something right, I'm not going to complain about it. Society shouldn't have to bear the expense (=increased rates) when people refuse to make simple dietary and lifestyle changes that would prevent disease.

[gateley]

23. I know someone who eats SO lean, exercises regularly, and still has bad

cholesterol readings - it's heredity. My point is, she, for example is doing all the right things, but she'd be penalized because she doesn't fit within the insurance company's parameters. I don't think that's right.

Also, the fattening of America is a symptom of our economy. What's cheaper -- mac and cheese or fresh fruits and veggies? I was getting some apples yesterday at almost $2/lb. Could have gotten a bag of pasta for much less and it would have lasted me longer, too.

I view many of these people as victims, not as intentional perpetrators.

[seabeyond]

47. $10.70 for a bag of apples. grabbed 7 i think. didnt look at price

at register see $10.70 by accident. a week ago. i still havent let that go. made sure ALL those apples got eaten and obsessed on it. once accidently looked at price of a yellow bell pepper. $1.50. couldnt buy another for a while. jsut better for me not to see the price of produce.

you are right on

[seabeyond]

30. what we need is a genetic workup on our parents, aunts, sisters, uncles....

and then charge...

genetics are the GREATEST factor in a persons health.

[bbgrunt]

5. well now they are attacking Santa as a bad role model--and it won't end there.

[LisaL]

8. So, if this company is going to charge overweight people more,

then I suggest they pay for surgery to reduce weight.
:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

43. why?

why should it be the employer's responsibility to remove the layers of blubber that the lazy-asses have accumulated on their own?

[MADem]

9. Wait'll they find out there's an obesity virus--then those employers will have a problem, won't they

shitting on people who are sick?

[napi21]

11. Thank your friendly insurance company folks!

I was party to the negotiations each on our health care premiums. It's based completely on your prior year experience! I remember our contller going nuts one year because one of our employees fell off a ladder IN OUR STORE while putting some stock away, and his back injuries costs the company BIG BUCKS in medical bills! Primarily because of HIS expenses, our corporate rates went up.

This is just another way for the insurance companies to get more money without "increasing premiums". They just don't want to accept the fact that they are in the RISK BUSINESS!

[silverojo]

12. It's about time!

I had a very close and dear relative die due to obesity-related causes. She wouldn't listen to us, but if her employers had given her an ultimatum like this, she would've literally gotten off her butt and lost weight. After all, hearing it from your loved ones can be written off as "nagging"; hearing it from an employer is a more serious matter.

Obesity is getting to be a terrible problem, killing people years before their time, and making them suffer horribly before they die. (Just ask anybody in the hospice care profession.) The only way we're going to do something about it is if people OUTSIDE the family crack down on people who let themselves go.

For instance, when I was in school, I was tall for my age. Even though I knew I was gaining weight, my family and I didn't realize how much--after all, you think you're just gaining weight from growing up so fast. I wish ANY of my teachers would've privately pointed this out to me. That would've made me aware of the problem, so I could've taken steps to lose weight BEFORE finding myself at 175 pounds by the time I was 16.

The only people who don't see the benefits of employer programs like this are people who want to use any excuse to abuse their bodies with overeating, sucking down sugar-packed drinks, and lazy unwillingness to exercise. As a survivor of one such person, you have NO IDEA how much it hurts those you leave behind, when they saw it coming all along. The pain of grief is bad enough, without the knowledge that you tried and tried to prevent the early death--but your loved one was just too damned self-indulgent and selfish to listen. :cry:

[bbgrunt]

22. nanny alert!!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

44. not true. just some know the importance of personal choice and be it smoking

fat, booze or driving a motorcycle or owning a gun, personal choice is important enough for me to defend even when it isn't relevant to me. called character

[WinkyDink]

46. The arguments either stand on their own, or they don't. But your ad hominem surely doesn't.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[distantearlywarning]

52. Let me get this straight:

You are SO angry about the "fatties" in this thread disagreeing with you that you feel the need to insult them in a mocking and mean way?

WTF? Seriously. There's something wrong with you, dude. They're not the problem, you are.

[seabeyond]

13. delete

[WinkyDink]

15. Thin people don't get sick? I'm impressed!

[seabeyond]

18. non sm0kers dont get sick? heard that argument before but was ignored

and ridiculed.

[WinkyDink]

45. I hope not from me. I don't smoke, but to punish people for partaking of a LEGAL product bugs me!

[seabeyond]

48. my oldest was reading one of my posts on this thread. both kids trying to figure WHEN

they have seen me sick in last 13 years. one time with a flu and i still took care of the kids and did my job. not like my non smoking hubby who gets sick and will call in at work and lay his ass in bed for three days with door shut, was picking up on the work. (and i love him anyway, just a wuss).

i was anorexic for a while in my life. i was truly skinning and underweight. wouldnt say i was more healthy over someone who was bigger than i.

this is all bullshit and not about anything more than people that need the power and control over other people to follow their whims instead of allowing the freedom of choice.... until it nips them on their ass

[supernova]

20. Yet another reason for univeral health care

You might as well charge the chronically ill more too: people with CF, MS, MD, afterall they use up more resources.

[SoCalDem]

21. Better plan.. Give a discount to the ones who are underweight.

There is a healthy weight for everyone, and it's not really trackable on a chart. An athlete may be OVERweight, and yet be perfectly healthy, and not everyone overweight is "unhealthy".. When using weight as the determinant, the company will also have to figure out how to charge all those people who are not overweight, but who are unhealthy..

The best plan of all is to GET THE BOSS OUT OF OUR PERSONAL BUSINESS ENTIRELY.

Universal healthcare NOT paid through work, is the ONLY "cure" for this new discrimination..and that's what it is..

This is a clever new ruse to get rid of those "gross fat people'..Couch the argument as a "health care premium" issue, and the price can be raised so high, that the employee may quit on their own.

But could an overweight employee now sue the company for having a hostile workplace if there are donuts in the breakroom, or if they have potlucks and birthday cakes?

[bbgrunt]

well, there is nothing about

single-payer that guarantees they can't do the same thing--like requiring people to take statins for cholesterol (damn the side effects) or start charging people with chronic problems a surcharge. I wish it weren't so, but with all the people who seem to think that it is simply a matter of will and healthy life style--and especially those on the left, I am afraid that we are bound for a nanny state in either case. The herd is being culled--welcome to the new eugenics.

[Withywindle]

25. My first thought was "AHAH, at least it's not smokers this time!"

My second, more adult thought, was wouldn't this be a better fucking country if we took care of everyone without this demeaning medical scrutiny to decide who's worthy of living and dying based on a fucking spreadsheet? (because no job = no health insurance = no medical care = death, face it.)

[Deja Q]

26. As long as they remove the extra fee when the person gets back into the good range, it's fair.

Unfortunately, the industry is chock full of greed and excuses; a sneeze is enough of a pre-existing condition to deny anybody.

[Danger Mouse]

27. Yet another gem from the health insurance industry...

American Health Insurance...the shame of the free world.

[fizzgig]

31. i will buy that

once my employer starts paying me enough so that i can eat more healthy. carbs are cheap, fresh fruits and veggies, good breads, lean meats...not so much

[Blue-Jay]

32. smokers, fatties, and alligator-wrestlers... You all owe me a lower premium!

In fact, there are many people who owe me a few bucks. (or vice-versa)

Rock climbers: $7.00
Meat eaters: $12.00
Skateboarders: 10 cents (cheap fuckers)
Pearl divers: $1.00
Taco Bell Manager: coupon for ten soft taco supremes
Crackheads: See my next door neighbor.
Bounty Hunters: We're even.
Porno Stars: -$50.00 (we'll settle up later)
Potheads: $10.00 (you won't remember it anyhow)
Golfers: $5.00 (because you're probably a douchebag)
The Guy Who Sells Me The Trib: $50.00 (I want news, not ads)
Snake-handlers: $2.00
Crossing Guards: $6.75
Bus drivers: push

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. What about people with hormonal problems?

What about them? Or people with genetic high cholesterol? All these genetic and autoimmune diseases, like the most common form of hypothyroidism??

Polycystic ovarian disease, adrenal problems, thyroid problems, that can't lose weight?

The insurance people better damn well pay for LIPOSUCTION and TUMMY TUCKS, NOT just stomach stapling. My metabolism is too slow for stomach stapling to work. And yes, I do not smoke, do not drink and I DO exercise.


Check this out for more info about some of the hell several million Americans go thru (diagnosed and UNdiagnosed):

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

[Hekate]

54. What about prescriptions implicated in weight gain?I just found out that yet another one I was on...

...during the years I gained so much weight has now been found to cause weight gain. I think that's three now.

I'm furious. At the age of 60 this is not some damn joke. I am now pre-diabetic.

My perspective is this: I never had bowel problems earlier in life, but everything slowed to a stop in middle age. I ate lots of fiber, as before. I drank lots of water, as before. I walked a lot, as before. Yet I was in trouble that Metamucil could not help with. Then after a particularly horrible and humiliating day with --- oh never mind --- I reread all the fine print on my meds and saw several that noted: "May cause constipation." I am now being treated for IBD. And this made me finally look at the other possible side effects of prescriptions.

Some of the ailments may be part and parcel of my genetic heritage. Very likely are.

But how many meds does a person have to take that "may be associated with weight gain" before everyone realizes that maybe it isn't all about that person and their perceived lack of will-power? How much HFCS does the food industry have to add to our diet before the FDA finally says to cut it out? How long before we finally have a health care delivery system that treats us like human beings instead of a health insurance system that treats us like cash cows?

Good luck with your thyroid, Perragrande. My mom's quit in middle age, and she was at least 50 pounds overweight and suffering with mental effects before a clinic doc finally tipped her head back and noticed she had a goiter.

Hekate

[mitchum]

34. Fine with me since I have to pay a higher premium as a smoker...

and the overweight employees still don't have to go outside of the building to be fat

[Horse with no Name]

35. Well now that it is being deemed that the night shift workers have a higher incidence

of cancer, let's watch their premiums go up.
After all, in a corporate society, it will be the employee that pays--economically and physically.
However, in a workers-rights based society--it should be the night shift employees receiving combat pay. But we all know how it will play out. And yes, it is a slippery slope indeed.

[deminks]

36. Take health care away from employers and insurance companies.

The guidelines were set by the same industry that sells the "cure". They make the guidelines unreachable so they can sell more "cure". The insurance companies make profit by enforcing the "cure". They strong arm participants through phone calls about their prescriptions, and soon they will not reimburse doctors who do not follow the guidelines by prescribing the "cure", even though their patients are having horrible side effects and have stopped taking the "cure". They may not reimburse doctors whose patients do not meet the guidelines. The guidelines that were set to be unreachable so that more of the "cure" could be sold to the patients who are sick from the "cure". Our lab work and prescription habits are going to be part of that "spying on Americans" to help bizniz and prevent terra.

Now watch their hired help pile on.

[tom_paine]

37. Imperial Amerika is about little else besides punishment, these days

It is trickling-down now.

[madmom]

38. my SO takes twice as much med. as I do for bp, he's not overweight, I am,

so who pays more?????

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vinca]

41. I hope the company is also going to weed out the smokers, boozers,

sky divers, deep sea divers, speeders, mountain climbers, people who shop in grocery stores where they might slip on the floor, egg eaters, beef eaters, chunky vegetable eaters (a person can choke, after all), the couch potatoes, people who eat very hot potatoes, high heel wearers, flip flop wearers, etc., etc., etc. Universal, single payer healthcare for all - fat, skinny and in between.

[Toots]

42. I love this, it will speed the demise of employer controlled health care.

Why should your employer, unless you work for the government, pay for you health care. If we as a people insist upon them paying the bills then we should not object when they set the rules...They are after all there for the money and not your benefit..

[Dr. Strange]

49. Bingo!

Although, if the government takes over health care, I suppose they could turn around and do this too. But at least the people would have a say.

[distantearlywarning]

50. I have hypothyroidism.

I've pretty much concluded at this point that it's impossible for me to lose weight like a normal person. I would have to have 5-6 hours a day just to exercise. Not to mention the time it takes to make sure I eat a strictly controlled diet with proper ratios of carbs/protein/fat. I've been trying for 8 years (since I originally gained the weight in about 3 months before being diagnosed with hypothyroidism). It just doesn't happen for me unless I live a lifestyle not really possible in today's America. Other people can lose weight by parking farther out in the company lot and giving up chips in the afternoon. That's not me.

So is my company also going to cut my work hours so I can do what it takes for me to lose weight while still keeping my pay intact (because it costs a lot of money to eat vegetables and meat instead of Kraft Mac&Cheese)?

On the other hand, I have great blood pressure, decent cholesterol, and my blood sugars are in the normal range. Also, so long as I have blood tests and medication adjustments every 3-6 months, I don't gain weight either. I also exercise daily, and according to some studies, an overweight woman who exercises is the least likely demographic out there to die of a disease. But I guess none of that matters, since I'm still an evil "lazy assed fatty" (thanks for the term to some DUers up thread - now I know how much you think of me, your fellow progressive and a human being), which everyone knows is the MOST IMPORTANT THING indicating health that there ever was, ever.

I would also like to know how far they are going to take this trying to control the lives of other people. Those of you who think us "fatties" deserve it - maybe someday you'll have to give them genetic and family information so they can fine you for the crime of having heart disease in your family (hypothyroidism runs in mine, BTW - we're all a bunch of bad character FATTIES who deserve everything bad that happens to us). Or maybe you'll have to wear a monitor 24-7 so they can track whether you are wearing your seatbelt or having a fight with your wife or not washing your hands in the restroom. Think about that...first they came for the fatties and the smokers, then they told the rest of us how we should be living our lives too. And we rolled over for it, because we "deserved it".

There are no perfect people in this world.

[Hekate]

53. My health insurance doesn't cover what they call "lifestyle" treatments, like dietitians...

You have to be not just fat, not just obese, but apparantly in need of bypass surgery for either your gut or your heart. You can access a dietitian if you are recovering from a heart attack, not before.

Orthotics, which are absolutely necessary for walking if your feet are bad, are specifically excluded.

Thank you Blue Cross.

Oh, and as to weight: I just found out that yet another prescribed pill I was on for many years is implicated in weight gain. I think that's three now.

Hekate
:argh: