Handedness Findings Point To Biological Cause For Sexual Orientation

[The Straight Story]

Handedness Findings Point To Biological Cause For Sexual Orientation

ScienceDaily (Dec. 2, 2007) — A study of men in Ontario, Canada provides a new twist on the connection between sexual/relational orientation and right or left-handedness. Whereas earlier studies showed that gay men (and lesbians) were 39 percent more likely than heterosexuals to be left-handed, the new data “provides evidence that gay or bisexual men also have an elevated incidence of extreme right-handedness.”

To complicate matters, another factor is involved – the often-reported finding that having older brothers may be a predictor for men being gay. In the new study, results indicate that the number of “older brothers moderates the relationship between handedness and sexual orientation.” That is, the extreme right-handedness finding is only seen in men with no or few older brothers.

“These new research findings add further weight to the idea that biological factors play a significant role in the development of sexual orientation,” said Robert-Jay Green, Executive Director of the Rockway Institute, a national center for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender research and public policy at Alliant International University.

The study was conducted by Anthony F. Bogaert of Brock University in St. Catharines Ontario and published in the journal Neuropsychology (2007, Vol. 21, No. 1, 141-148). Bogaert asked about the sexual attractions and behavior of 538 gay or bisexual men and 373 heterosexual men. The men were questioned about their right or left hand usage for 10 physical activities. They also were asked if they had biological brothers.

Most of the men were right-handed. However, the gay and bisexual men had a higher likelihood of both left-handedness and extreme right-handedness when compared to the heterosexual men. “The number of older brothers increased the likelihood of being gay or bisexual in moderate right-handers only,” Bogaert wrote. “In both non-right-handers and in extreme right-handers, older brothers either did not increase or lowered the likelihood of being gay or bisexual.”

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071130165501.htm

Can't people just be gay without a scientific reason behind it? My best friend is gay and left handed, his lover right handed with no older male siblings.

So the fuck what? They are gay, love each other, and I don't need studies to explain why anymore than I need studies to explain why I and others are straight.

[rockymountaindem]

1. I don't think anybody's trying to justify anything with this study

It's just an examination between certain biological characteristics.

[saltpoint]

2. The findings are useful because it's one more step toward establishing

that there is a bio/neuro genesis for sexual identity, which would become the frame of reference for legislation and justice instead of ignorance and fear currently holding sway among right-wingers.

When studies like this become an overwhelming percentage of availble clinical data, the fundies' chief argument is dissolved.

We don't need the data. The courts do.

[silverojo]

11. ^ What he said.

We need all the scientific data possible, to prove to the world that being gay/lesbian isn't a "choice" or a "sin", but just another form of sexuality.

[sarcasmo]

24. Exactly, it would take away the Religious argument of changing someone straight.

Which is of course, total nonsense.

[demnan]

3. The study of genetics is fascinating

if not done in a hurtful or insensitive way. I'm left-handed myself, female and hetro, but I've had so many gay male left-handed friends who were more like brothers to me than my own brothers, that I have to wonder about the genetics of the thing.

Being blue-eyed and brown-eyed are similar inherited genetic things. Our genetics are part of who we are and we owe a lot of it to a 16th century monk named Mendel who examined yellow and green peas to determine inherent genetical characteristics.

On edit: I was the only left-handed child in my family. But two grandparents on opposite sides of the family were left-handed and this explained why I was left-handed.

[enlightenment]

10. It is interesting.

I'm also left-handed, female, and hetero - and the ONLY left-handed person in my very large extended family for at least three generations.

My child was born biologically female. All indications suggested she was left-handed; she picked up things with her left hand, began to colour with her left hand, stepped out on her left foot . . . and then, when she was about five (right before she started school) she switched and started using her right hand.

The docs said, "whatever." I was a teeny bit disappointed, just because it would have been nice to have another left-handed person in the family.

Interestingly, my child is transgender - something that to my shame I did not realise until he was in his late teens.

So now he is a well-adjusted young man (27) who is right-handed.

I wonder how that this might work into the study? :)

[Divine Discontent]

4. my head's spinning after that one... I agree!

the thing is, they do these reports (I'd hope) to dissuade the idiotic notion that most if not all GLBT people choose to be gay during their youth (and not because they're trying to find a "cure"), and to show that you're born who you are going to be based on what's in your DNA. This one was confusing, and although I see what they're saying, it's going a bit too far. I understand your point. If they just said one thing, like "Gay men are 65% more likely to be left-handed", without adding secondary issues into it, it wouldn't give me a headache! ha...

I'm happy your friend is in a relationship. I'm still looking. :( And since my DU "love" doesn't want me, I'll keep looking... LOL

take care!

[The Straight Story]

6. Well, my friend - don't give up!

he and his lover have been together over 10 years now, but it took him time to find someone - just like it took me time to find the right person.

Just don't go looking for love in an airport.... :rofl:

[Divine Discontent]

32. crap! you read my mind...

I was heading to the airport for luvvvv (Craig style) later tonight... haha..

thank you for the encouragement, I need it. I met someone, and he seems to like me, but although he's an adult I worry he's far too young for me. Maybe I should just see how things go and not sweat it, and just enjoy having the new friend.

thanks again!

[MADem]

5. I wouldn't get pissed off at these research efforts. If there's science behind any finding,

you can't go calling being gay a 'punishment from GAWD' or that kind of crap, when it might be influenced by simple biology. That doesn't make it "bad" --- lots of things are down to biology, after all.

With all those kids Mitt Romney has--all boys--the odds increase, per this study, that one of them is gay. That might put a kink in his homophobic platform...

[KittyWampus]

15. It may not be 'bad', but is it desirable? What happens if there is some coded bit in our DNA

that is found to signal gayness and potential parents decide to start screening out gay feti?

Sort of like Downs Syndrome etc etc.

I personally don't believe there is anything in our DNA that reads gay or straight.

IMO, our gender identity starts like the undifferentiated zygote that then becomes male/female as times goes on. Sometimes our gender identity meshes with the physical genitalia we ended up with and sometimes not.

[MADem]

19. Well, if there's nothing in the DNA, they'd be challenged to screen it out.

I think with time--and young people may not believe this, but it's true--that in a generation or two, being gay won't have any vestigial 'stigma' at all. The old prejudiced bastards are dying off, and the younger generation isn't putting up with it. Even the ones who are "taught" to hate just don't have as much enthusiasm as they did in the bad old days.

I have lived long enough to remember the days when NO ONE talked about it, it didn't EXIST, and there were code words for 'it:'

--He's 'light in the loafers'
--He takes a lot of cream in his coffee, if ya know what I mean.
--She's a 'spinster' (knowing look) who lives with an old school chum...
--Oh, he's a 'confirmed bachelor' (knowing look, again)

And that was it. No discussion, no nada. It was "assumed" by those who were naive that these poor folks just lived their lives of quiet misery, in spinsterhood/bachelorhood, and busied themselves with hobbies or something!

Then, when it started to come out that there were gay people living their lives, it was a big HUGE shock, and a subject for Made For Tee Vee movies (the troubled gay son, the secretly gay husband--oh, the ...DRAMA!!! And of course, there was a lot of misery in these films!). And then, there was that huge PBS program (the first reality tv of the modern era) about the LOUD family-and they had a GAY KID!! I swear, that opened the floodgates, that story.

The younger generations don't have a problem with it. My take, as an older fart, is that people who are gay are part of the world, like people over six feet, or people with hazel eyes. It is a state of being that just "is"--it's not something to be denigrated or, Pride Parades notwithstanding, celebrated, particularly. The celebrations are, quite understandably, a backlash to the discrimination, and they do serve a purpose right now, but I foresee a day when they'll be regarded as "quaint," and as pointless as celebrating having brown eyes or red hair.

We're not quite there yet, but we are much closer than we were in past decades. Hell, from the people I know with gay kids, from what I've seen, I'd say they're a desirable commodity--they're all VERY good to their parents!! Who knows, maybe THAT'S genetic, too? Will the day come when folks are asking "How do I increase my chances of having a gay child? I want someone to remember me at Christmas and visit me in 'The Home' when I'm old!"

[KittyWampus]

23. I really agree with you about the 'stigma' being greatly diminished. It speaks to the value

and importance of the brave people who came/come out of the closet.

It would be wonderful if youngsters becoming aware of their gender identity didn't have to go through quite as much angst should that identity be anything other than straight.

And your last paragraph gave me quite a smile :)

[Thirtieschild]

26. I know exactly what you're saying

I'm from the "Silent Generation" and didn't even know there was such a thing until I was in high school, when the man who sold cosmetics at the drug store in our small town was called "queer". One of my best friends, also of the "Silent Generation", was gay but never told me - I finally told him he never used a pronoun to describe his latest love - it was always "this person". I confronted him because truly good friends shouldn't hold such important secrets from each other. Afterwards he trusted me enough to confide in me and we were even closer. Now, the odds are that our four-year-old grandson is either gay or born in the wrong gender. He wants to be a girl when he grows up, loves anything "sparkly" (his word) and likes to help his mother pick out jewelry. He also loves to fart, which doesn't seem particularly gay. Who knows. Whichever way he goes, we all love him mightily.

[MADem]

30. Well, however the little fart (heh heh) turns out, here's hoping he stays

good to his grandparents!!! With that much affection, I'm sure he will!

Great illustration of 'how it was' back then, your report!

[Richard Steele]

7. So, gay folks are more likely to be left-handed... and right-handed.

Thank goodness all -THAT'S- cleared up, then! :silly:

[knitter4democracy]

8. My concern is that, if they treat it like that in the journals, doesn't that make it a disease?

Bear with me for a second.

If there's a biological basis for being LGBT, then why wouldn't someone look for a cure? There are new treatments based on genetic findings coming out every day. If it's biological, then doesn't that mean that it can be fixed somehow?

These kinds of studies leave a bad taste in my mouth. Why can't we just accept our brothers and sisters, no matter whom they're attracted to? Who cares why? Why not let them live as fully actualized human beings and stop studying them like lab rats or poking and prodding them to find out why they aren't attracted to the "right" people. Why not let our brothers and sisters live in peace?

[The Straight Story]

9. Cause people (even on the left) are always looking for new ways to make you like them

from smoking to drinking to what you eat, etc.

Damned sad to me.

[SoCalDem]

14. Until "they" can define "normal", I don't how they could call it a disease

Almost EVERTHING about us is genetically predestined.. our eye color, hair color, height, body style..


If brown eyes is "normal" then do blue-eyed people become "abnormal"?

I think a lot of scientists have a lot of grant money and time on their hands :rofl:

[knitter4democracy]

27. True, but then, aren't they calling heterosexuality normal in the study?

I'm just sayin', it looks like we know what they think "normal" is.

[KittyWampus]

16. If a biological (DNA) basis exists,then it's a certainty some parents would screen their feti

Actually, this is all a very good example of what happens when the Reductionist approach to Science is allowed to go unchallenged for too long.

[MADem]

21. Well, make the test expensive--and that way, you would only get the assholes

paying for the screening who shouldn't be raising gay kids anyway, because they'd fuck 'em up.

They'd probably go for the in vitro route, if they could even do this sort of thing, and that's costly as well. Get a few embryos working, test 'em, and implant 'em.

Their kiddy won't grow up gay, but until they start screening out that axe murderer orientation, they may have to lock their bedroom door at night!

[MADem]

20. There's a biological basis for being a redhead, or having blue eyes...no one's trying to cure that!

Knowledge is not a bad thing. And why would you want to 'cure' something that isn't a disease?

[knitter4democracy]

28. Some think it is a disease, though.

Then they'll want to get rid of it. These are people who think that anyone who doesn't fit into their "heteronormative" box is sick and wrong and perverted, etc. They think it's a disease just by their language.

No one tries to cure red hair or blue eyes because those have been made beautiful. Having six fingers on each hand is actually a dominant gene, but babies get surgery to take those off after they're born most of the time. Just because it's genetic doesn't mean doctors don't try to fix it.

[MADem]

29. Like I say, give it a generation or two. The kids coming up don't see it as

anything outside what is. By the time they get around to 'screening' for it, the haters will be dead.

[knitter4democracy]

31. That's my hope, too. nt.

[LittleBlue]

33. I would hope not. Red hair is uncommon

but like homosexuality, it is simply a genetic trait. Fundies like it to be a choice because they believe God has a hand in creating us. If it were to be genetic, then God would be making people homosexuals in their minds.

[kestrel91316]

12. I've said for years that being gay is akin to being lefthanded in that

both are a biologically-based minority that naturally occurs in the population. As such, one would have to have a serious character or mental defect to claim that EITHER group is worthy of any sort of discriminatory treatment.

Remember, they used to beat left-handed children to try to make them right-handed.

[NuttyFluffers]

18. yup, yup. mom had left hand tied to her chair to teach her to write right-handed

granted this wasn't in america, and it was around the 'silent generation'. but it was done by the italian nuns because it was to cure you of writing with "the devil's hand." i was rather fascinated that europe wasn't the only society that favored right-handedness, too. kind of a revelation that other cultures had seemingly nonsensical biases. we're all just a little bit nutty inside, it just helps to notice who has a sense of humor about their cultural neuroses.

[kestrel91316]

25. The medical Latin term for left is "sinistral" - note the similarity

to the word "sinister". This is not a coincidence. The left of anything was evil by definition in olden times.

[SoCalDem]

13. So we're all gay now..right handed or left? That solves evertything

If we're all gay, the laws should apply to everyone then..right?? left??

Ole time songs wanted us to be witty & happy and gay.. maybe they were onto something..

:)

[eppur_se_muova]

17. Scientific studies like this may tell us how we got to be the way we are ...

but it is up to us to decide what to do about it (if anything), and that calls for moral study, not scientific. But such studies do inform the debate.

The more correlations that can be found, the stronger the argument that sexual orientation truly is not a matter of choice, that people are born a certain way, and there is no denying it. If people come to accept this at a deep, almost instinctual level, they will not be able to tolerate the idea of discriminating against those whose sexual orientation differs from theirs. It is morally equivalent to punishing someone for a deed they did not do. People who were raised with the idea that "the gay lifestyle" is an "unnatural choice" (conventional wisdom when I was growing up) have a hard time seeing this. People who are raised with the idea that choice has little to do with it -- the emerging view -- should see the issue more clearly.

[MADem]

22. Precisely, and concisely. Well summed up! nt