FAIR GAME: Liberals should talk about the "weirdness" of Romney's religion

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Mitt Romney is the favorite for the fundie RePUKES and will get the RePUKE nomination if the fundies aren't forced to face up to the fact that Romney's religion is different from theirs.

If Romney gets the nomination and has the RePUKE fundies behind him he will be harder to beat than any of the other RePUKE contenders.

It is in our interest to turn off the RePUKE fundie base from Romney and the only way to do that is to talk about the WEIRDNESS of his religion and how it is different from their (equally weird) fundie religion.

Liberals should talk about how Mormons believe that Jesus is the son of a MAN from another planet who turned into God on the other planet. We should promote the idea that if a "real" Christian accepts a Mormon as president he is turning his back on Jesus.

We should talk about Mitt Romney and Tom Cruise as different sides of the same looney cult coin.

This is the best way to destroy the candidacy of Mitt Romney in the eyes of the fundie right and therefore create the best chance for our nominee to win.

Flame away but since religion should be irrelevant in American politics in the first place but isn't with RePUKES, I have no problem using the RePUKE's own intolerance against them.

We have no problem using Rudy's and McCain's affairs and multiple marriages against them even though we believe those are private matters and we SHOULDN'T have a problem with it. If they use religion to get elected it is fair game to use against them.

[Thickasabrick]

1. Just keep playing that South Park episode about mormons.

Best one they ever did.

[Left Hook]

43. No, even better

Scientology.

[Thickasabrick]

61. LOL....you're right. The best part was Nicole trying to talk Tom

out of the closet.

Seriously, I had no idea the mormon religion was just as big a joke. I thought they were like methodists or something until I saw that episode.

[phylny]

2. Fundamentalists will run far away from Romney.

Many look upon the Morman religion as a cult, not a Christian religion.

[JerseygirlCT]

58. We don't need to jump into that pigsty. They'll do fine with it

all by themselves.

As Democrats, we really ought not to have religious litmus tests.

[JerseygirlCT]

3. No, I really don't think we should

I'm not in favor of sinking to their level.

Candidates should be judged on their merits.

It's not as if he does well by that measuring stick... there's plenty there to attack without denigrating his religion.

I don't get the LDS church myself. But why attack an entire group of people in order to attempt to smear a GOP candidate? Go after him, full force. I'm sure there's plenty of ammo there.

[jonnyblitz]

9. why not? there is nothing "liberal" about Mormonism.

are we supposed to accept and not criticize every batshit crazy harmful belief system just because we are liberals?

[undeterred]

32. There are progressive Mormons

just as there are progressive Catholics and progressives within many other conservative institutions. Some people choose to stay within an institution they are at variance with because that is the only way to change it, from within.

Last year I campaigned for a Congressional candidate who is a progressive Mormon- he was endorsed by NARAL, and he favored legalizing gay marriage, and he argued in favor of stem cell research, which was a hot topic in the governors race.

His opponent, James Sensenbrenner, is the one who is batshit crazy.

[kestrel91316]

72. The Mormon church hierarchy, at least those who aren't drooling

witless geezers in diapers, are batshit crazy. The whole Mormon Church was a HUGE SCAM by a known charlatan and local ne'er-do-well (Joseph Smith) from upstate New York who got his start in scamming with phony treasure hunting, which was in vogue with crooks at the time. Now it's just a big money-grubbing con operation AFAIAC.

My g-g-g-grandfather was William Adams Hickman, Chief of the Danites. The Danites were the "enforcement arm" of the early Mormon Church. Those who joined up in the days of Joe Smith and Brigham Young only got to leave the church one way if they had second thoughts: six feet under. Joe Smith and Brigham Young were famous for picking and chosing their wives from among the sisters, daughters, AND WIVES of the men who joined up. If one of them wanted your wife to marry, you had to give her up or be killed. If they wanted all your money and property and you objected, you were toast. There was a good reason why Smith got lynched in IL. The locals knew he was no good.

No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie is the definitive and deservedly famous Smith bio (by an outsider). Don't bother reading the sanctioned bios - they are a pack of nonsense and lies. My ancestor also wrote his autobiography (Brigham's Destroying Angel), which Mormons like to say is a pack of lies. But I descend from the family line that were NOT from the plural marriages (not the Koolaid drinkers of the time) and we know the real story.

When I was a teen we lived in Utah for a few years (early 70s). Utah was then, and still is today, a virtual theocracy run by the church. Salt Lake City is largely nonmormon, but the rest of the state is truly frightening in its religious fanatacism. When I was there the state legislature ACTUALLY PASSED, and the governor signed, the SUNDAY CLOSING LAW, which FORCED all businesses to close on Sunday (you are supposed to be in church all day, you know). Fortunately it was thrown out as unconstitutional, but it serves as a demonstration of what these people are about. The people there were TERRIBLY RACIST and TERRIBLY prejudiced against anyone who wasn't one of them. As a non-mormon in junior high school, my ONLY friends were other non-mormons. We were virtually shunned.

I have not found non-Utah Mormons to be as fanatical, but I DO NOT EVER TRUST THEM. Coca-cola used to be prohibited by the church until (as rumor has it) they used their VAST church assets to buy a large amount of stock in it. Then the head of the church had a vision that it was ok to drink. Official church policy denied full membership to blacks (who were essentially "mud people" to them) until the civil rights uproar in the 70s. Then the head of the church had a vision and suddenly blacks could fully participate in the church.

The Christian fundamentalists consider Mormonism to be a cult, and normally they are quite vocal about it. But now they see an opportunity to get a FELLOW RELIGIOUS FASCIST into the White House so I guess maybe somebody else had a vision that Romney is ok.

NEVER FORGET: Mormonism, formally known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, has developed RELIGIOUS FASCISM to high art. When they get ahold of power, they NEVER give it up.

[undeterred]

102. All that is really beside the point.

Do you know what kind of mormon Romney is or what his actual beliefs are?

Do you have some reason to think he has a plan to legislate mormonism as the American religion?

Projecting all this historical stuff onto candidate Mitt Romney is as batshit crazy as saying that there is a "homosexual agenda".

[FreeState]

88. Harry Reid is Mormon N/T

[ovidsen]

101. Absolutely right,

Mormons as a group are just like any other faith. They have their crazies, but for the most part they are sane and practical.

I lived in Utah for years, so I think I speak with some experience,

I don't necessarily like Romney, but his Mormonism will not be a factor in my decision to support, oppose or ignore him. People who treat the LDS as some kind of cult remind me of the Protestants who were scared to death of JFK's Caltholicism 57 years ago. He's no more a puppet of the LDS ledership than JFK was of Rome.

[Emit]

107. Yes! One of my best friends is a progressive Mormon

And my own grandmother, who is Mormon, is a registered Democrat. Both are very anti-Bush & Co.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. No one's asking you to accept any particular belief

But yes, we are not supposed to sink to the level of our foes, and attack an entire group of people for some perceived political gain.

We're far, far better than that.

And as I said, there's plenty there to attack Romney with.

Stick to the issues. Personal smears are not right. Especially when you smear so many others while you're at it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

48. Mitt is asking us to accept it when he promises fundies he'll govern for them

When he says he'll govern in a religious way (anti gay anti abortion anti stem cell) then he's fair game.

[JerseygirlCT]

56. So we attack him on the issue of choice

we attack him on his dedication (or lack thereof) to the separation of church and state. We bring up his former rather tolerant positions on choice and gay rights and ask him to explain, in detail, his "flip-flop".

We bring his words to the fundies back to him, and to the public, and make him defend himself to the majority of the country who are not right-wing religious fundamentalists.

The issues. The issues. The issues. When we learn to hit on them, and hit hard and unambiguously, we'll do well.

[Sherman A1]

18. Agreed and Well Said.

I don't get the LDS church either, but I really love their family history centers and have found the folks working there to be exceptionally nice and helpful. I won't smear anyone for their choice of religion.

[El Supremo]

37. What "family history centers"? You mean genealogy research?

If so, I hope you realize that this cataloging is in order to baptize the dead? Some crazy calling that they have misinterpreted from St. Paul's writing.

But anyway, I am totally against attacking or helping others attack Romney's religion. And this could turn against us.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

39. It can't turn against us if we do it stealthily as fundies nt

nt

[LostinVA]

57. They baptize Jewish Holocaust victims

Although they keep promising to stop.

:sigh:

[Sherman A1]

62. Yeah, I get the program

but, getting help from what they have doesn't mean that I am offering up my family tree for a post burial baptism. No one at the Family History Center has asked me for anything in regard to my family when I have gone there. They have helped me several times with general ideas on where to research, on some general history and using ancestry.com. Very nice folks.

[kestrel91316]

78. The only good the Mormon church has ever done, IMHO, is

their genealogy work. Their family history libraries are open to ANYONE - you need not be a member. They truly don't care. I am a genealogy hobbyist and owe them a debt of gratitute for that. Now that we have the internet, I don't use them anymore, but for years they were THE go-to guys for genealogy. Their catalogued and microfilmed records are world-famous.

Yes, it's bizarre what THEY use them for.............and it was especially repugnant when they got caught BAPTIZING DEAD JEWS into the Mormon Church. That was a horrible thing, and if I ever find out they have baptized my deceased father (he was raised a "jack" or nonprecticing Mormon) there will truly be hell to pay.

[El Supremo]

87. They are horribly innacurate with my (surname) family's genealogy.

And that is fine with me. But we all were baptized so they should leave us alone.

The New England Historic Genealogy Society is a far more reputable source for New England families.

[smalll]

46. I'm with you -

We take the OPs route, it'll feel good and work well for a while, but Romeny would take the issue dramatically with a well-scripted eventual response - a JFK/Catholicism by-way-of "I have a dream" speech, with a serving of "Protestant, Mormon, Jewish, Muslim even - that's not what should divide us, what should unite good people of all faiths - and none - is (the silent majority "social values" agenda of the Republic Party and not the 'hollywood' Democrats)."

I don't walk into that trap, sorry!!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

50. Do you think that speech will work with the Bush fundies?

I don't, if they have been exposed to Mitt's real beliefs

[smalll]

65. It will go over well with the "undecided" types tho - /nt

[philosophie_en_rose]

4. I don't think persecuting Romney for his religion is appropriate or necessary.

I'm not a mormom and don't particularly respect the beliefs themselves, but it's simply unreasonable to pick at his religion.

We should, however, point out his incredible flip flopping on abortion and gay rights.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

8. Why is it unreasonable to pick at his religion when.....

the RePUKES picked at Kerry's religion (instead of denigrating it they said he wasn't Christian ENOUGH. Same thing in my book)

[Telly Savalas]

66. Because part of the reason America is fucked up

is because political campaigns are mired in this sort of 3rd grader "gotcha!" bullshit. It has to stop, so we have to be the ones to make it stop.

Romney can be brought down by pointing out how flawed his policy positions are and how his vision for the country are lacking.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

10. I didn't say I had any problem with his religion. I said fundies would

if we suggest they should.

[cali]

22. fundies have a huge problem with Mormonism

and this is well known, and has been already much commented on. Pointing it out is totally unneccessary.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

33. I think you'll find Mitt is their new darling

Check out Falwell and Freeptard and Ann Coli statements.

[Common Sense Party]

111. I think you'll find Mitt is persona non grata in FReeperland.

They actually -- get this -- call him a "liberal." And Giuliani, and McCain. They're the three liberals.

Most of the wacko wingnuts that I know couldn't give two craps about his religion--that is, they won't publically SAY how weird they think it is.

They say that they won't vote for a "pro-abortion, anti-gun, universal health care liberal RINO from Taxachusetts."

So, if FReepers are any indication of how the Repubs go, I don't think we need to worry about Romney.

[undeterred]

40. Since when do the fundies listen to us?

Did DU suddenly achieve Biblical authority status?!

[MiniMe]

6. Romney is a flip-flopper. A few years ago, he was pro-choice and pro-gay rights

That should be all the fundies need to know. How do they know that he really is anti-abortion now, or anti-gay? Did he just change his stand for the election? Does he plan to change back?

So much for Romney. I don't agree that he should be attacked on the basis of a religion, thats as bad as the attacks on Ellison(not sure of the name) because he was muslim.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

28. So was Bush.

And I say if they use religion to get elected it is fair game to use against them

[Mz Pip]

7. No no no

Let the repukes do it. And they will. Give it a few months and the fundies who don't count Mormons as being Christian will take care of this.

If we do it, we just come across as being intolerant bigots. If the GOP operatives do it - well, that's what we have learned to expect from them isn't it?

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. I didn't mean do it openly as Dems. I mean let's "help" the fundies do it.

Sign up on fundie message boards, etc.

[Mz Pip]

38. These idiots don't need our help!

They are bigotted and suspicious to the core. Though it might be interesting to suggest on those boards that they read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Krachaur (sp?). MOre than you ever wanted to know about the Mormons....

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

54. That's a good suggestion nt

nt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Attack the man on his actions, not on his faith

that will only gain him a sympathy vote--and we have no reason to stoop to the level of the repukes who would do this with one of our guys. Besides, rest assured the fundies know what church he belongs to--I'm sure other rpuke candidates will make sure of that (like Baptist minister Huckabee).

[Proud2BAmurkin]

16. He won't get a sympathy vote from fundies if they're helped to turn off from him

.

[SeattleGirl]

13. I would have to disagree with you, Proud

As someone else posted in this thread, it would be better to focus on his flip-flops since he started contemplating making a run for the presidency. Attacking someone simply because of the religion they practice is not a very liberal/progressive/humane thing to do.

[mondo joe]

14. Leave the religion-bashing to the far right, IMO. Hit him on his record. NT

[Proud2BAmurkin]

19. Nope, He wants to bring his religious beliefs into government, so let's have at them

Just because he wants to hide his "different" beliefs and tell the fundies he'll vote with them on issues doesn't mean we can't use his religion against him.

[AlCzervik]

15. no thanks. The rw can fight it out among themselves, i have no interest

in mocking anyone's religion.

[phillysuse]

17. Let's focus on the Mormon underwear

Known to some is the fact that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or Mormon Church) wear a special kind of underwear in connection with their religion. This is true of most faithful adult members of the Church. (Mormon children are generally dressed the same as any other children.) The special underwear is called a "garment" by Mormons, and it is directly related to Mormon temples.

Garments are a symbolic gesture of the promises that Mormons have made to God. The garment is always worn under other clothing, next to the skin. In fact, for most people who wear it, the garment takes the place of regular underwear. Mormons begin wearing it during their first visit to the temple, wherein they receive individual instruction on how the garment should be worn and cared for, and furthermore, they undergo a sacred ceremony called the temple endowment. Solely during this ritual, additional special clothing is put on; by contrast, the garment or special underwear is worn at all times, both day and night, from then on. It serves as a constant reminder of the covenants made during the temple endowment.

Mormons believe in being "in the world, but not of it," and the garment helps in privately yet consistently setting temple-going Mormons apart from the world. A particularly sharp contrast is felt in today's society, where morals and modesty have deteriorated to a most horrific degree. Many moviemakers and clothing manufacturers, for example, design their respective products to reveal so much of the human body that virtually nothing is left to the imagination. Mormons, on the other hand, are encouraged through the modest length and cut of their temple-got garments to always dress appropriately. Devout Mormons further understand that in only a very few instances might the garment be removed, such as for swimming, using the bathroom, or being intimate in marriage. The reasons for keeping the garment on far outweigh the reasons for taking it off.

The special Mormon underwear consists of a top and bottom piece, and it is made from a variety of lightweight fabrics. There are some special colored temple garments that can be worn by members of the armed services, but for the vast majority of Mormons, garments are always white. This symbolizes physical and spiritual purity. It fosters a mindset of continual obedience to the Lord, which is crucial in keeping the covenants entered into in the temple. Through such obedience, a person can find physical and spiritual protection. The Lord God is enabled to grant promised blessings, fulfilling His side of the temple covenants. Thus, the garment is sacred to the wearer not for what it is, but for what it represents. The garment helps the wearer to focus his or her life on Jesus Christ and to thereby lay claim to the blessings promised to those who do so.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

21. Good idea. Um PHOTOSHOPPERS?

:rofl:

[SoCalDem]

110. You can order them online

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=mormon+garments&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

[Dracos]

31. I have also heard

about this underwear I also heard a few other things like the men will become a god with there own world to rule,They also believe that Jesus & satan are brothers,they also believe in being baptized for the dead in other words if there ancestors were not baptized they can be baptized in there place.
I have heard that some mormons may be baptized dozens or hundreds of times.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

34. Correct they believe each man will get his own planet.

Just like Jesus' dad.

[kurth]

67. Article and photo of the magic garmies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment_(Mormonism)
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon013.htm

[kestrel91316]

81. Don't even get me started on those ludicrous "garments".

[FreeState]

92. Whats so wierd about that?

Don't most religions have special clothing/jewelery etc that they ware to remind them of their faith and covenants they have made?

[stanwyck]

20. Harry Reid is a Mormon

which is why I'm trying to be a little more open-minded about the religion. I read Jon Kraukauer's "Under The Banner of Heaven" which does NOT give a very flattering view of Mormonism. But, I'm an admirer of Harry Reid. So, I'm going to try and not judge Romney on his religion. I'm sure there are plenty of other issues Romney endorses which I don't.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

23. I don't have a bad opinion of Mormonism or even fundie ism as long as

it's not used against citizens which it is in the case of REPUKE Mormons and fundies.

[GreenEyedLefty]

24. My mom always said that two wrongs don't make a right...

...hey, I'm an atheist, which ranks at the bottom of Americans' trust-o-meter, so I haven't much room to talk about Romeny's Mormonism.

That said, I haven't met any Mormons who weren't entirely decent people.

And let's not forget that Romney's father was one of Michigan's best governors - he was a Mormon and somehow, back then, his religion didn't matter.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

25. This isn't about Mormonism it's about decreasing the chances of the GOP nominee

a Mormon RePUKE like Romney who is preachng to RePUKE religious groups promising to be one of them ISN'T an entirely decent person

[GreenEyedLefty]

30. If he promises to eradicate non-Mormons,

Then he's not decent. Saying what you need to say to get the support of a certain group is just politics.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

36. He says we "need a person of faith" in the presidency

And he promises to tear down the wall of separation of church and state

[rox63]

26. There's plenty to attack Mittens on without sinking to this level

The fundies are already finding out about his vaccillating statements on choice, gay rights, etc. Just keep playing that video clip from '94 where Romney says he'll be better for gay rights than Ted Kennedy. That'll cause fundie heads to explode right and left. I don't think attacking his religion is the right way to go here. And just in case you didn't already know, the Dem Senate majority leader Harry Reid is also a Mormon.

[kestrel91316]

84. Harry Reid converted because teh Mormons were the only

religious game in town when he was a young adult, and they VIRTUALLY SHUN anyone who isn't one of their clique. I understand why he felt the need to do this at the time.

That said, he appears to be a very nice, reasonable JACK Mormon (essentially nonpracticing) which works for me, lol!

[FreeState]

103. Wrong he is active Mormona and converted in College in Utah

Everything you said is basically wrong...

"Reid, who has served as an elders quorum president, high councilor and Sunday school superintendent, converted to Mormonism while attending Utah State University in 1960. He subsequently converted his wife Landra from Judaism to the Mormon faith and has raised his family in the church."

http://www.sltrib.com/06092001/utah/104290.htm



"I never went to church, ever -- not once in a while or occasionally -- but never," Reid said. "There was no church in Searchlight. There was no place to go to church. So I had no experience with religion at all."

...

"He teaches Sunday school to a singles class at a Mormon church in Washington, D.C. Reid and another church member also visit four Latter-day Saint families each month to make sure their needs are met."

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_Reid.html

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. That doesn't fit in with my religious tolerance beliefs. Just nail him

on his issues stands. I am sure those are enough to discredit him.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

29. Mine either but I see it as necessary if we are going to win.

And worth it if that is what we are faced with.

[BlooInBloo]

41. It's not any more batshit stupid than any other religion.

[Az]

42. It would certainly be an effective tactic. But is that who we are?

Do we not count Mormons amongst our numbers? Do we not claim to be the big tent? Are we not advocates for tolerance and inclusiveness? I am afraid that if we took the path of ridiculing his belief we would become that which we oppose and only hand them ammunition for future fights.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

45. Who we are is: Leave your religion out of politics and it's a private matter. BUT

If you drag it in as part of how you will govern, then it's FAIR GAME.

[yurbud]

44. You don't have to say it's weird, just describe it accurately and fundies will go nuts

[Proud2BAmurkin]

47. Agreed. Point out that Mitt thinks Jesus' father was a MORTAL MAN from another planet

I don't think the fundies have been forced to hear that enough.

[yurbud]

51. actually it's in all their anti-cult lit, so you could even refer them to authors they respect

[Proud2BAmurkin]

55. Exactly nt

nt

[yurbud]

59. FUNDAMENTALIST anti-Mormon tract:

These are very popular comic book style tracts. You can see the whole thing at:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

[Proud2BAmurkin]

64. LOL plan to post that on every fundie message board. Along with "Judeo/Christian/Mormon nation"

:rofl:

[AspenRose]

70. Ewww, Chick Tracks

He doesn't like Catholics either :puke: I can't stand Chick Tracks.

[yurbud]

73. he's the only one who ever made me scared of hell. I found one of his tracks wedged in a rock wall

at a campsite. Scary shit.

[FreeState]

94. Mormons do not teach that

The LDS church teaches Jesus was born of God the Father - He is not mortal now or when Jesus was born.

[Dracos]

49. I don't think we need to bash mormonism

but we should point out the difference of this religion and main stream Christianity.I think this is fair.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

53. That's right. Expose the truth about Mormonism to the fundies

That's all I'm sayin

[eagler]

52. I would call that bigotry- plain and simple

besides harry reid is mormon (and please don't forget to put the second "M" in Mormon.

[PaDem]

60. not sure why Romney would be the fundie favorite.......

with Brownshirt and Huckabee in the race.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

63. Those two will fade fast, Mitt will be out front

and harder to beat

[yurbud]

74. seriously, I think big business will shitcan all the hillbillies who think they are running

and figure out a way to shoehorn someone in who has a chance of winning the general election.

Brownback and Huckabee would get the inbred and klan vote only, not metaphorically but literally.

[SPKrazy]

68. I Hate To Say It

but I think we should find a way to get the fundies talking about it instead

I can't imagine the Baptist and farther right fundies (who look at ways that Mormons are cults and need to be saved sometimes) will vote for Romney if they think about his religion long.

:shrug:

[beyurslf]

69. I was raised in a fundamentalist church and went to their school. We had a class

on religion that taught what was wrong with other religions. Mormons were in the section on cults. We won't need to say anything--they already think Mormons are loony.

[SPKrazy]

79. Yes You Are Right

attended a fundie church when I was younger

they had a guest speaker come in and speak on Mormonism as a cult and he brought books to sell.

they do think Mormons are looney.

He'll lose the south

Giuliani will lose the south

McCain isn't much better in the south

the real loonies are the ones that I worry about gaining traction in the south.

:shrug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

109. If the fundies already think that Mormons are nuts, then half the job's done.

... just publicly and offhandedly praise Romney for his heartfelt mormon faith.

I think it's a gambit better played if he wins the nomination.

[Bill McBlueState]

71. All religions are weird to someone

It all depends on your perspective. Protestants think it's weird to believe that the communion bread actually turns into Jesus. Catholics think it's weird to let women be pastors. Muslims find belief in a trinitarian god to be weird. Hindus find belief in a single god to be weird. Atheists think basing your life on any proposition that lacks evidence is pretty weird. So I'm not sure how we can say the Mormon religion is especially unusual compared to the other things people believe.

[yurbud]

75. point is not that it is less credible than other religions, but a fault line in the right

[Bill McBlueState]

82. the right will manage to eat their own

I just think it's hypocritical to speak about the weirdness of the Mormon religion when the religions Democrats follow are also pretty weird.

[yurbud]

105. oy. I caused a big stink here any time I mentioned anything about the new age crap

there is wrong and then there's embarrassingly wrong. I'm not sure why people who see through religions invented a hundred or a few thousand years ago fall for ones that were invented a few years ago or even on the spot while someone is trying to sell them crystal or herbal enemas.

[fishwax]

76. I think the racism of the church should be a legitimate issue when it comes to Romney

While others of his generation were marching for civil rights, Romney was serving a mission for a church that officially excluded blacks from full membership in the elect/priesthood. The church didn't change their policy until 1978. I think that is something he ought to have to defend.

As far as bashing the whole religion, though--the fundies have no love for mormons, and while they might say nice things about him now, I don't think he'll get much longstanding support from them.

[yurbud]

77. would he ask to be sworn in on a Book of Mormon? Would all of his wives be called the first lady?

[FreeState]

93. Uggg... stop it with the untrue stereotypes already

Uggg... stop it with the untrue stereotypes already

Mormons believe in the Bible and read it. They even devote 2 years of high school to studying it.

Mitt belongs the the LDS church in SLC - the one that stopped practicing plural marriages over 100 years ago. He has only one wife. If he was to marry another he would be kicked out of the church.

[rockymountaindem]

80. That would be pretty low-end

I wouldn't criticize someone for their religion, even to exploit the differences in the RR. It's just not cool.

[Spider Jerusalem]

83. I don't really think so.

But then my perspective on this is informed by my Catholic background; I don't see this sort of thing as being any different than the anti-Catholic slurs used by some Republicans against Al Smith and JFK.

[kestrel91316]

85. Why the fundies might just choose to conveniently ignore the

"Mormon Problem" that Romney has: they see in him a fellow RELIGIOUS FASCIST.

The Mormon Church runs a nice little theocracy/religious fascist state in Utah. I think the fundies see that as how they would like the rest of the country run.

I happen to think Romney's somewhat bland, moderate exterior is A DISGUISE. He is hiding his true nature until he gets in. The fundies are big fans of stealth candidacies, which have worked incredibly well for them on the local and state level for years.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

100. EXCELLENT points.

Exactly.

[Cerridwen]

86. So that I can become that which I fight? No, thank you.

If I wanted to be an intolerant waste of human flesh, I would have chosen a different political party and a different political philosophy.

[JCMach1]

89. wait until the general election though...

[ruggerson]

90. Totally agree

but it should be done the way the Republics would do it to us.

Leaflet every Republic county in the South with pamphlets about the cult of Mormon.

Have 529's that blanket the South with commercials about it.

Pull every trick that they pull on us.

[Jonathan50]

91. Until I read _The Authoritarians_ I thought Romney wouldn't play with the fundies.

Now I'm not so sure.

The big thing about fundies is that they are very good at compartmentalizing their thoughts and can hold many mutually conflicting ideas in their heads at the same time with very little problem. If the fundies decide that Romney is "one of them" it won't matter a fart in a hurricane whether or not his religion is kooky. That won't bother them at all.

I've just finished reading the first five chapters of _The Authoritarians_ by Bob Altemeyer. It is a truly fascinating analysis of what Dr Altemeyer calls "the authoritarian follower" or "Right Wing Authoritarian" although they don't have to be right wingers in the political sense.

You can read _The Authoritarians_ online (the only way to read it) at this site:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Anyone who is interested in how the political opponents of liberalism think should read this book, it is based on many years of scientific psychological research and definitely has opened my eyes as to the conservative way of thinking.

[Gabi Hayes]

95. why any dem would waste one breath on Mitt Romney at this point

in the process is beyond me

I'd be SUPPORTING him all the way now, because, by this time next year, Giuliani is already going to have the nomination sewn up, unless his pug opponents can get the M$M to say ONE negative thing about him

you heard it at DU first

I've already done a thread about who his likely running mate will be

say what you will, he's St. Rudy's already annointed by big media, the narrative has been set (they've abandoned McCain to the wolves already), and unless he goes publicly insane, he's got it in the bag.

[Jack Rabbit]

96. Go somewhere else to peddle that crap

Most Mormons I have known have been good, decent people to whom I would cheerfully lend $20 until payday.

There are many good reasons to oppose Mitt Romney. That he is a Mormon is not one of them.

Count me out.

[tlsmith1963]

97. Despite the Fact...

...that I was raised in the Mormon church but broke off, I am very offended by this idea. Yeah, just use the fundies' intolerance against a religion I was raised in. Even though I don't even believe in a lot of the Mormon stuff anymore, I don't like how the fundies freat Mormons. Don't encourage their sick intolerance just to win an election.

[FreeState]

99. As a Mormon I agree with you

some times the bigotry on DU amazes me.

(disclaimer: I am a member - however my membership should not be taken as a blanket agreement with any of the church's beliefs, Im a member in name only)

[Zhade]

98. I couldn't, honestly. ALL religions are that nuts.

Oh, sure, many of their followers divorce themselves from most of the nuttery and manage to do good things despite their holy books, but the religions themselves?

I couldn't honestly separate his crazy beliefs with those of other believers.

[Skittles]

104. all religion is weird

none of the followers see it though

[frogcycle]

106. ironic, isn't it

that this sort of tactic seems distasteful, tacky, repugnant - and yet it is exactly what they do all the time?

[lumberjack_jeff]

108. Fair Game? Right or wrong? I have only one question...

Is it effective?

Overt ridicule of his religion could, in fact probably will, backfire as the ayatolla wannabees circle the wagon against those who would try to keep secular government.

It has to be subtle. Raise questions about the basis of Mormonism in general and let fundies make the connections to Romney all by themselves.

Fuck the high road. Take 'em down by whatever rhetorical methods necessary. The only sin is to fail.

[Broken_Hero]

112. Locking

"With regard to religion (or the lack thereof), Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, and others. All are welcome here.

For this reason, we expect members to make an extra effort to be sensitive to different religious beliefs, and to show respect to members who hold different religious beliefs. Members are welcome to discuss whether they agree or disagree with particular religious beliefs, but they are expected to do so in a relatively sensitive and respectful manner.

As a general rule, discussions about ideas are usually permitted, but broad-brush bigoted statements about groups of people — either religious or non-religious — are not. If you are easily offended by discussions about religious beliefs, or if you take pleasure from offending or ridiculing people with different beliefs, or if you consider progressive people with different beliefs to be your enemy or your inferior, do not participate in religious discussions on Democratic Underground."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Thanks,
petersond
DU Moderator