Wait wait wait the Colorado shooter was an ex-missionary?

[underpants]

I haven't really been following this story other than the basic facts and the celebration of the Christian security guard (imagine finding one of those in a church) who turns out didn't actually kill the guy nor did her holy gun.

This morning I am passing by a TV and I read on CNN's scroll that the shooter had been a missionary himself at one time.

We don't blame God for fumbles so saying something like "God 4- God 1" would be
completely unreasonable.
http://washingtontimes.com/article/20071211/NATION/112110033/1002

[Virginia Dare]

1. It was a fundie on fundie crime...n/t

[Annces]

2. If people are being sensitive about the

Christian bashing, why are you prolonging it.

[underpants]

3. Like I said I didn't care about this story other than, of course, that people died

I don't know what the answer is on guns so I don't jump into those discussions here or elsewhere (other than of course SOME regular maintenance of regulation is required-even the NRA agrees with that) but the whole thing smacked of phony pandering to the religous right. Okay this didn't fall apart like the meth head who calmed the Atlanta courthouse shooter but when I read that I just let out a sigh and rolled my eyes.

Okay people are sensative but I am tired of having this false holy righteousness shoved down my throat.

[madokie]

5. If its any comfort I agree with that

I say to the righteous folks just keep your jesus away from my being. I choose to not believe any of it and will die and do that same as all people before me return to dust ultimately, soul and all.

[Lost4words]

12. amen to that!

God told me never to believe in the words of mortal men for they lie.

My ancestors have gone before me as I will one day.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. No, he most certainly was not!

He was a liberal gay atheist who who supports abortion and has always voted for Democrats. I know this is true because Fox News told me it was true. Sheesh! :eyes:

Edited for spelling.

[underpants]

6. This actually goes to the security guard thing

WOW SHE BELEIVES IN GOD!!! SHE IS A CHRISTIAN!!!

Is there any reason to NOT suspect that that would be the case in most of this country?
We are told on one hand that 90% of the people are Christians but then we are supposed to find it odd that one of these Christians is identified :cry: we are not alone :grouphug: no matter how much the secularists use their undo influence to brainwash us into worshipping Satan WE WILL SURVIVE!!!! GOD HELP US!!!!

[seabeyond]

8. being in the religious belt, i point out to the "christians" often. 90% christian

leaves a whole lot of christian democrats seeing how only 38% republicans in this nation. shuts them up quick

[underpants]

14. Wow Christian Dems, does God know about this?

O8)

[gatorboy]

17. He approves, I'm sure.

It's the folks here that need convincing, apparently. ;)

[seabeyond]

22. i give it to them once, it is not mine to convince. if another choses to be closed minded

it is theirs to do, and their loss.... closed minded has never worked for me. i understand where those come from that are so angry. i do understand. so i can handle the weight of their anger, contempt. it is not personal reflection, it is theirs.

[seabeyond]

21. not only knows, BUT he loves us anyway, wink...... n/t

[rocktivity]

7. He was in a youth missionary training program at the church several years ago

but was dismissed for "health" reasons (as in mental health, perhaps?). Apparently, he's been sending them harassing letters and pouring out his soul on a web site. So much for it being a anti-Christian "hate crime"--it was plain old-fashioned obsession-fueled vengance.

:(
rocknation

[knitter4democracy]

9. It was my understanding that he was kicked out of the program.

He never actually did any mission work (other than perhaps short trips through his church growing up, a common experience for evangelicals).

Honestly, it looks like he had dealt with mental health issues for awhile. Mission groups do a lot of psych screening, and he didn't pass it. That was awhile ago, and he's been sliding downhill ever since, from the reports.

Think about it this way: he was raised in a very religious home, he felt a call to missions but was rejected by the one he felt called to join, he wanted to go to a certain Christian college but couldn't afford--all that adds up to a feeling of massive rejection. Not everyone handles rejection well, and if he already had depression or was bipolar or another mental health issue, it might have been the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.

It's not like he was kicked off the football team (which is a huge thing in some quarters)--he was rejected on a very personal level. He then got sicker and then snapped. All in all, it's a horrible tragedy for everyone--those who died and their families, and the shooter and his family. I would hope that YWAM would use this to do a better job of dealing with people, but I doubt it.

[underpants]

11. Okay yes I understand that

Very good points. No people deal with it in all kinds of ways

[NashVegas]

15. Apparently

He had a YWAM horror story. It could have been exaggerated, but it's impossible to know for certain.

Religious disillusionment can make a young teen's head explode.

[Buzz Clik]

10. He was a terrorist who committed an act of terror on American soil. Some irony....

This is a screen shot from my favorite knuckledragger site. The unnamed poster describes the hate that this very sick kid held against his fellow Christians. The sadly irony is the image he uses for his signature:

___________________________________________________________________________________________

[underpants]

13. Quadriplegic??

what does that have to do with anything-is it a sign of weakness in that warped mind?

What really scares me about seeing that is that not one of the Republicans running for POTUS has any mention of policies regarding the disabled on their websites nor have they made any mention of it (and there are 50 million disabled in this country). Is this some sort of a "thing" that we aren't privy to?

:scared:

[malaise]

16. You'd better tell that Dobson snake oil salesman

He blamed secularism -whatever the fugg that means!

[underpants]

18. Blamed for what? Training the security guard?

or was she trained (cue heavenly music) by GOD!!!


BTW- this is what ARMED security guards are trained to do. The story that I did read yesterday about the Vietnam vet who was behing the pillar and who yelled "coward" at the shooter basically showed that she did exactly as she was trained to do. This is a credit to her and the training system.

[malaise]

19. He said this happened because

of secularism. This happened because a mentally ill Fundie wanted some payback.

[Skidmore]

20. Ever wonder if he personally knew Haggard?

[Jacobin]

23. Missionary? I prefer the Reverse Cowboy myself

[Javaman]

24. Okay, I'm trying to wrap my head around something here...

So this kid is brought up but religious right wing over the top types (I'm not going to say extremists, because I'm not sure they are, but they certainly sound like they are pretty hardcore), he is indoctrinated with this belief but really doesn't buy into it and on top of it all, he is basically socially dysfunctional due to his upbringing.

the church on the other hand (and I'm only assuming here) is the one that this kid attended.

They are behind the family and against the kid.

Granted this kid did shoot people, but one would think that there would have been warning signs. And apparently there were but no one chose to pay attention.

The security guard is hailed as a hero for killing someone in a church. Granted again, she was doing her job, but a few things leap out at me. first, a security guard IN the church? She stated that God guided her hand?

the what of the parishioners? they are thankful that she killed him?

Not having read a follow up on this incident, has anyone expressed remorse or sorrow for the shooter dying?

And what of the family? has anyone questioned their philosophy that no doubt lead to this confrontation?

There seems to be a gigantic disconnect in this particular religious community.

I wonder how many other kids there are in this community that are now identifying with the shooter and the mental stress he was under that led him to commit such a crime?

Or will this be just another incident in our violence loving society that will be swept under the rug without further examination?

more than likely

[seabeyond]

25. my kids went to a christian school in panhandle of texas. not too far from co.

about 2003 i started seeing, feeling, hearing the anger, violence. not only from the parents and the teachers and the minister and adm, but also from the children. it was becoming a part of who they were. it was not like this in the past. spring of 2004 it had escalated so. i couldnt get kids into the public school i wanted so i left them in the private in fall 2004. it had become pure ugliness, in the name of the lord. my son takes christ and his teachings seriously especially in the christian environment he was in. felt a responsiblity, at such a young age. again and again he took the anger and abuse in love, teaching (in his view) these friends and loved one..... love. nov of 2004 pulled kids out of school, and put them in a dumpy public school.

we were SO relieved, it felt SO good, and was a kick ass school i found out. academics (my MAIN concern with schools) was literally beyond this private i paid for.

so much of what you are asking in your post are something to reflect, things i have seen and learned from this group. being from california it was all new to me. but what a lesson it was for my whole family.

[Javaman]

26. Texas isn't like anywhere else in the world. LOL

Come to Austin. :) it's certainly not like the rest of the state.

Cheers and peace. :)

[seabeyond]

28. hey, that is what i heard. i was at a co. christmas party last weekend, in midland

bah hahhaha. actually odessa, but close enough. went thru midland and hubby says, you are not going to like the sign coming up. huge ass sign about the bush's territory. oooooh sheeeeit i say, i forgot, totally forgot, bush place. i dont know why, maybe cause i was stresses at being around texas males, with me drinking, a scary picture, i totally forgot where bush from (kinda).

anyway, had a dude there from austin. fell in love with the dude. very much different.

my curse, .... big crosses and big hair. kids wont let me move.

[Javaman]

29. It is odd that the farther you go into west texas the hair gets higher

and the crossed mutate in enormous proportions.

there is some sort of link there but I can't say what it is.

[underpants]

30. The mother said "I did the best I could"

the mother of the mall shooter in Nebraska not this one.

The security guard in a church thing struck me too. I don't know if she was a sec.guard IN that church or not.

[spoony]

27. And Richard Dawkins is a Christian, too.

Because once you grow up near it, you can never ever not be a Christian.

Did you read what he wrote? Did that sound gooey and affectionate toward Christians to you?

Some of you are so fucking desperate to blame the victims of this thing, and so determined that the killer can't be anything but another fundie, that you are resorting to ridiculously irrational lines of argument. I don't ever again want to hear about how logical and rational you lot are, because this whole episode has put paid to that nonsense once and for all.