How Election Fraud/Audit Advocates Have Numbskulled Their Way Thru for 8 Years

[CorpGovActivist]

First, take a deep breath. This is meant as a constructive kibitz. I favor auditable election trails.

Second, a few parameters:

1. I confine my analysis to states that allow for binding referenda.

2. Within that universe of states, I further confine my analysis to states that allow political activities within a reasonable distance of each polling place.

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What is to stop election fraud advocates in each state meeting Criteria 1 and 2 above from:

A. Submitting a binding referendum requiring the state election official to institute a particular system that meets the top experts' criteria for fraud prevention; and

B. Deploying a team at each polling site that includes a notary, to allow voters to voluntarily register how they voted - "yea" or "nay" - with a notarized signature?

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Yes, I realize that the number of people voluntarily disclosing their vote and having it notarized will not match the number of people voting.

However, if there are more notarized "I voted 'yes' on the measure" signatures than there are officially reported yes votes, then it would sure go a long way toward persuading public opinion.

Catching undecided or ambivalent people on the way in to vote, such an activity might help sway them, too.

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Now, I also realize that:

I. There are people much further along in their activities/thinking on this; and

II. My ignorance of past efforts is probably showing, but;

III. Sometimes a fresh viewpoint from someone not neck-deep in an issue can help spark a new idea.

So it really is meant as an honest kibitz. Please don't flame, but please do set me straight on what I don't know. Ignorance is curable.

; )

- Dave

[DCKit]

1. I had the same thought, but don't think it would be allowed in too many places.

Having researched a recent bizarre and indefensible arrest, the police would be directed to simply lock up everyone involved until after the voting was finished then call "no harm, no foul" at the arraignment.

They need to prove nothing to hold you incommunicado for 24 hours and you are not "under arrest," you are "in custody." Imagine my surprise.

[CorpGovActivist]

9. All It Takes Is One...

... well-organized effort, and the issue takes a giant leap forward in public perception.

- Dave

[Nederland]

2. You will never detect fraud that way

The number of non-responders will insure that.

[CorpGovActivist]

5. Interestingly...

... this method works well for student referenda.

- Dave

[Nederland]

21. Only because in that case the margin isn't close

With 2%-4% races that are common in national politics, this method won't work.

[riqster]

3. Two principal issues:

<1> Confidentiality. The secret ballot is key to averting the arm-twisting and intimidation that occurs when votes are publicly known.

<2>Additional complexities tend to cut down turnout.

That being said, I hate your title but appreciate your post. Fresh thoughts are always a good thing.

The best and simplest remedy is hand-counted paper ballots (like they use in Canada, England, etc.) with lots of public oversight and strong penalties for vote-rigging.

[CorpGovActivist]

4. Your Points Are Well-Taken

"That being said, I hate your title but appreciate your post. Fresh thoughts are always a good thing."

That's the way we activist types learn from one another. Throw out an idea, and let others beat the hell out of it.

; )

"The best and simplest remedy is hand-counted paper ballots (like they use in Canada, England, etc.) with lots of public oversight and strong penalties for vote-rigging."

There are times when I really wish I could go back in time and mediate that whole rebellion thing.

- Dave

[riqster]

6. I hear ya

For instance, Brits still have Habeus Corpus rights. A free press. A strong opposition party. Better beer.


Maybe if we apologize they'll take us back?

[CorpGovActivist]

7. The Funny Thing Is...

... many of the most prominent founders were loyal, and started out as reluctant revolutionaries.

Damn that "long train of abuses and usurpations"!!!

; )

- Dave

P.S. Plus, the accents!

[riqster]

10. Roight, myte. nt

[CorpGovActivist]

12. +2 Points for Any Guy...

... with a British, Scottish, Irish, South African, Australian, Kiwi, or Commonwealth accent.

Of course, some blokes come in at a 2, even with the leg up!

; )

- Dave

[riqster]

14. I give 5 points to the ladies, especially those with West Country accents.

Ho urrr. And a tip of the glass to Old Peculiar, which doesn't taste the same here.

[CorpGovActivist]

15. If You're Ever in Boston...

... go to The Black Rose.

Rumor has it that they still get the real Murphy's and Guinness, for all the money sent to Ireland for - er, insurgency efforts.

- Dave

[riqster]

16. Not in a million years

I have friends who narrowly escaped death when the IRA bombed downtown Manchester.

[CorpGovActivist]

22. Understood n/t

[Imagevision]

8. Scratch plan A. - in voter fraud there obviously are NO rules

[riqster]

11. There IS one, actually:

"Don't get caught."

[L. Coyote]

20. Or, at least control the Department of Justice when you do cheat.

Getting caught hasn't worked out all that bad yet.

[CorpGovActivist]

13. I Am an Advocate...

... of learning the rules, and working within the system to bring about real change.

Hence the OP.

I think it is somewhat defeatist to throw up hands in despair, without looking into the rules and agitating for change within their bounds.

- Dave

[rucky]

17. Most of the work has to be done between elections.

I think the biggest progress we can make is to repeal HAVA, then start a class-action suit by the states against the voting machine companies to recover the millions wasted. We need to stress unreliability of machines over actual fraud that's occurred. That's the easiest case to prove.

[riqster]

18. Agreed. We cannot wait for Congress.

Even if we did, they'd get it wrong anyway.

[IdesOfOctober]

19. I suggested DBD derivative lawsuits in 2006.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=364&topic_id=2347614&mesg_id=2348481

Ides

[CorpGovActivist]

23. And Here's Your DUbie Snack for Being Right n/t