All This Happy Horseshit About Ending The War In Iraq

[ThomWV]

Here is the shortest history lesson you will ever need

I was in Viet Nam for years. When the "Peace Talks" began in the spring of 1968 those of us in country thought the end was in sight. Two years later when I left the war was still going on; full-tilt-boogie. The Peace Accords would not be signed for another 3 years. During every one of those 5 years from the initiation of peace talks until we abandoned the country there were millions of people in the streets protesting that war. Today we have no public show of displeasure with our war that even approaches what we saw then.

Keep that time span and level of public involvement in mind the next time you think we are going to get out Iraq within months of electing your favorite boy or girl.

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Look at the commitment Clinton and Obama have already shown in ending the war

When they have repeatedly and dependably caved in to the War Monger's every whim, why the bloody hell should we believe them when they now claim they will end the war?

[peace13]

2. Where have you been?

We have had hundreds of thousands of people in the streets of DC over the past five years. The media ignores this as much as possible. People are speaking and acting out every day to stop this war. Come join us on the streets every Tuesday and Saturday in Granville. We have a small but energetic crowd. Peace, Kim

[ThomWV]

7. I was in the marches, that is where I have been. Where in hell was everyone else?

I have been to Washington in what pittiful few and feeble marches have taken place. I live on the phone to my Senators and Congressman. I write letters, I call people, I talk to people in the streets. I do all this shit and I am god dam near alone.

There were more people in the streets in 1966 protesting the war in Viet Nam than there have been in total against this war. There is no comparison what so ever in scale or committment between then and now.

[peace13]

15. Your OP sounds like there have been no marches.

I think that you discount the efforts. Don't feel alone, I do the same things that you do. I have a log of all of my DC calls and what the call was regarding. It is sad to see that the politicians do not feel bound to represent the people. I have a memorial to the soldiers in my yard with 3900 flags that have been up since 2005. I understand your frustration. The problem is the media and not getting the message out. My local newspaper editor told me that people were bored with flags and that if we wanted coverage we would have to do something else. Go figure. The fact is that there are many out there working to get this war stopped. How do we get the message out? Peace, Kim

[ThomWV]

25. Burn the flags. Seriously, call a reporter and them burn every god dam one of them

Tell him the American People have abandoned them and now so will you, then take a box of matches and burn every one of those flags. I can guarantee you that not only will it make your local news but you will be on every TV program in the United States. Tell your story as the flames rise - they will listen.

[peace13]

29. I will keep this in mind, seriously.

I have decided that the flags will come down if the election goes to another Constitution kidnapping, corporate war monger. My time would be better spent at the Veterans Hospital. I like your idea and will hold on to it. Peace, Kim

[2beToby]

18. Ability to commit?

I agree that there seems to be a lack of commitment. But is there any ability to commit? I write, I call, I attend. Up here in Maine. I can't make it down to Washington. Not, don't want to. Can't. Maybe if I tried hitchhiking.

I think a lot of people do not have the option. And I think a lot of people are afraid. And moreso, there are those who don't realize we're going to have to bring this country to a complete STOP in order to turn it around. If ten thousand people march the streets, dialogue can begin. If ten people march the streets, they're going to be arrested.

I actually made a post about this a few days ago, asking for people like you to comment. It sounds like you've seen this before and you're willing to jump in this time around. How in the hell do we stop this machine? We're living in a time where we have MORE ability to communicate, so how is it that we seem less organized? And screw the media. The media doesn't have to be talking in order to get the people to talk. It's been done before. But how?


Edited for a spelling error.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. "pittiful few and feeble marches"???

You obviously haven't been to the same marches I have.

[2beToby]

27. Okay so the media is ignoring it all

do you have a website, or a webmaster? Take lots of pictures, take some video and post it. With the internet around, screw the media. Make people start talking one city at a time.

If you don't have a site or know anybody who can start one, well, I'm offering. I'm not a professional, but I can run up a functional and "pretty" site in just a couple of days. Let me know.

[kenfrequed]

31. Well

I march in Minneapolis, DC is kind of hard for me to get to right now. Fortunately the damned republicans are coming to us this summer and there will certainly be a "welcoming party" for 'em.


I do have to make it to some washington protests this year though.

[madokie]

8. and due to the media's ignoring that is it not happening more today

no coverage so why bother cause the subjects of the protest could give two shits what we think anyway, in fact our protesting in vain only emboldens them and gives them many oppertunities to slap each other on the back and say shit like lookie there what the peasants are doing today etc etc etc. Yes there has been protests and many of them but as this shows not any really took. And the reason for that is no press coverage

[peace13]

16. Agree.

But, because they weren't covered doesn't mean that they didn't happen. Peace, Kim

[madokie]

21. I agree with that.

to the ones of us who are paying attention that is so true but to so many the protest simply did not happen, they know nothing of 'em

[2beToby]

28. Hundreds of thousands over five years doesn't seem to be enough

I think you're right, in that, yes, there have been efforts made. But I think Thom's right in that not enough has been done.

It's great that you guys have a small but energetic crowd--and that's something to be proud of. But where is your anger that your crowd is small? How could you get hundreds of thousands to a march? Maybe everyone is as dumbfounded as I am on this.

[emanymton]

3. Declare Victory. Bring Troops Home.

.
This nonsense war and occupation in Iraq are over. All predictions of what will happen after USA pulls out, made to date have been so off the chart wrong, USA just simply has to decide to close up shop and leave the mess to Iraq. The Iraqi people will solve whatever outstanding issues on their own.

Solution is declare victory. Bring troops home. Impeach 'shrub and Co.'
.

[Toots]

4. Unless there is a draft people just won't get that motivated

It wasn't just that there was a war going on but that little Johnnie might have to go..It keeps being said over and over again that these soldiers volunteered....

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. Draft (or serious talk of it) would be the only thing that would work

Sad to say..............

[2beToby]

24. They have something much more vicious than a draft

They have NCLB and pork legislation. Your school failed? Your school isn't up to standard? You aren't good enough at school with its constantly changing standards? You're too good for schools with it's lowered expectations? Join the military! We'll give you the money you need, since minimum wage isn't going to let you survive on a shoestring budget.

They eliminated the need for the draft by ensuring new generations have no where else to turn. This coming from someone who both lived through the initial enforcement of NCLB and now as a certified teacher.

The draft isn't coming.

[peace13]

30. Not when *'s buds can clean up providing mercenaries! n/t

[NNN0LHI]

23. 2 out of 3 Vietnam Vets enlisted so I don't think a draft is the answer

The answer is for the people enlisting now to stop doing that and say "No, I am not going to go off and kill more people guarding your stinking pipelines".

That would do it.

Don

[lonestarnot]

6. If people don't care about lives, how are we to stimulate their care for $10 bil. a month?

[ThomWV]

9. There is a lot more concern over $3.99 gas then there is over 4,000 dead Americans

[lonestarnot]

13. 10 billion a month is too much to comprehend I guess.

[2beToby]

22. Agreed. People can comphrehend a number that large

[LWolf]

10. I think we'd be out in months with MY favorite.

Of course, we never would have been there to begin with. I don't see DK backing down on his agenda to get out of Iraq.

[ThomWV]

12. Dream on ....

There is no would-be candidate in the race, either party, who will end that war 'in months'.

Mark my words, we will be just as involved in Iraq 2 years from now as we are today.

[LWolf]

32. Ok; here's a challenge:

vote for DK. Help elect him, and prove me wrong. ;)

[underpants]

11. The Surge is working

Come on it's in all the papers... seriously I think I have seen that headline about 5 times int he last few days

[leftchick]

14. we will be there for my lifetime

or until we are kicked out. There is a reason for the enduring bases and western run oil contracts. It has nothing to do with democracy. Notice how none of the candidates, except kucinich and gravel, address these issues.

<sigh>

[OneBlueSky]

17. no candidate, if elected, is going to end the war . . .

the corporations -- "defense" contractors, construction contractors, arms dealers, oil companies, "security" companies, even agricultural conglomerates -- have too much invested to pull out now . . . the "world's largest embassy" (built on the backs of what are essentially slave laborers} is nearing completion . . . the Democratic Congress has had ample opportunity to set a withdrawel of troops in motion, and has consistently refused (not failed -- refused) to do so . . .

the bottom line is that Iraq sits on an ocean of oil -- and the corporate/government alliance wants it to help "preserve the American way of life" . . . that the American way of life is a based on indulgent over-consumption, wasteful packaging and built-in obsolescence, and lifetime indebtedness -- and that it has NEVER been sustainable -- is irrelevent to those making the decisions . . . suburbanized America (and the corporations which promote and support it) needs oil, and Iraq has it . . . that's all we need to know . . .

Hillary Clinton will not end the war . . . neither will Barack Obama, John Edwards, or even Dennis Kucinich . . . we are in Iraq to stay, no matter who we elect as president . . .

[2beToby]

19. Wow, wrong reply space, sorry

[2beToby]

20. Of course the candidates aren't going to get us out of this war

This is something we have to do for ourselves. I don't expect one candidate to do an entire people's job. The POTUS is only as strong as the people he supports, and we are pretty damn divided right now.