How in the hell can CHURCHES be voting sites???

[Obamarama]

I was just listening to MSNBC in the background a few minutes ago and they were reporting on the fiasco that is the Michigan primary. Some talking head was talking about the mood of primary voters at a church that is a polling station.

Every voting site I have ever been to have been municipal buildings or schools. Are churches regularly used as voting sites and I'm just clueless? I know that the separation between state and church has been terribly eroded, especially within the past 7 years. But using churches as voting sites is beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.

[gollygee]

1. There aren't enough buildings big enough and with enough parking that have lots of space on Tuesdays

why build a bunch of new buildings when there are empty churches on Tuesdays?

[supernova]

5. Very true in a lot of small/rural communities

the church is the only building around that's large enough for such activity.

Because a lot of these churches serve multiple purposes, many churches have large meeting halls that are just for social reasons, no religious objects in sight. Edit: voting is usually set up in these rooms, not the sanctuary. That's true of where I vote. In fact, in my precinct the hall is a separate building from the main church.

[JohnnyLib2]

42. Accessibility. Think of the elderly and handicapped.

Schools and churches often have the accommodations in place.

[supernova]

45. Yes, that's another reason

hanicapped accessability.

There are many older public buildings that have somehow become exempt from upgrading like this. I'm looking at you, old Hillsborough courthouse. :P

[Kittycat]

6. My uncle's church has street side parking only - and they're a voting center.

Creeps me out. If I lived in that district, I wouldn't vote there.

[Buzz Clik]

2. Nearly every voting center in my area is in a church.

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

133. Same here...

But there are some precincts that vote at community centers and schools. Strangely enough, my precinct votes at the Zoo. No kidding.

[Buzz Clik]

134. I really don't see the problem with voting at a church.

None of the congregation was there recruiting for Jeebus. I've also voted in a school and there was no school-related funny business going on there, either.

So, when you vote at the zoo, do the zoo keepers attempt to capture you for one of their exhibits?

[TCJ70]

137. Here we have the wild democrat...

...don't get too close, they may try to get you socialized medicine!

[alfredo]

148. Yeah, but God® knows how you vote, and he'll be angry if

you vote Democrat.

[bicentennial_baby]

3. Iirc, the site where my husband votes

here in MA is in a church. (We vote in different places b/c he hasn't changed his registration since we moved.)

:shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

4. oy. Most states frown on being registered in a different place from where you live.

Some consider that to be a crime of some sort. You might inspire him to update his registration.

[bicentennial_baby]

11. Well, it's in the same town...

He's planning on switching that soon :)

[Bill McBlueState]

7. why not?

With the trend toward privatization of EVERYTHING, churches are in many areas among the few options for voting sites.

Most churches understand that this is not an opportunity for evangelism, but there are definitely some that don't. Poll workers should be of the sort who are willing to monitor and report abuses.

[rodeodance]

8. I voted at the snyogue in Madison WI

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

127. What's a snyogue? A temple of the Church of Zack Snyder?

Do cults involve throwing Persian emissaries into wells?

[Oeditpus Rex]

146. An Australian singer

Kylie Snyogue.



I'd vote at her.

[Thothmes]

172. Best stern sheets on the planet

[madokie]

9. All the elections I've voted at has been churches and I started voting in the early '70s

I asked this very question here once, don't really remember what I didn't learn from it though

[orleans]

76. same here--a church since the 70's in chicago's western suburbs

we also have voting in the schools and park district buildings

people have been a little uneasy about allowing strangers into the grade schools to vote while school is in session

[madokie]

91. I would be too

there is voting it other places around here but by chance I have always had to vote in a church, I guess they are just wanting to get my ass in there any way they can, huh ;-)

[orleans]

98. (same here--and it works--i "attend" church every couple of years) n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

121. Do you vote in the worship space, or other meeting rooms?

I've voted on church properties too but never in the sanctuary. The polling place was in the parish hall.


Here I vote in someone's two-car garage and that's hands down the weirdest place I've ever had as a polling station.

[madokie]

130. I'm not sure I know what a sanctuary is so I can't say on that

its right when you go in the front door, its just in the church is all I know

[Gormy Cuss]

142. sanctuary as in the central worship space.

as opposed to the space used for meetings or day care or other places were the core function wasn't worship.

[northzax]

131. I know the law in DC

as well as Maine and California (which are the only places I have voted in person, Oregon had mail in ballots) is that you can't use the sanctuary and that all religious symbols in the place being used must be covered or removed.

[CK_John]

10. I've voted at a church for last 20+ yrs, quite common. n/t

[AlCzervik]

12. i used to vote at a church, there is no problem, same rules apply to all places.

[mod mom]

13. Remember those 4258 votes for Bush with 658 voters voting in OH in 2004?

a mega church:

New revelations about voting machine allocations in Franklin County emerged on Tuesday, December 7. William Anthony, Chair of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told WVKO radio listeners that the Board begins “stationing voting machines four weeks out” before Election Day. Security questions were raised after a machine in Gahanna Ward 1B at the New Life Church recorded 4258 votes for Bush where only 638 voters cast ballots.

-snip
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/975

[Eurobabe]

14. I voted in my 1st presidential race in a Church in 1980

Many of my polling places have been Churches. I think it is very common.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. We have voting by mail here in WA. And, paper ballots.

I can't fathom why more states haven't.

[TCJ70]

16. The church I go to is a voting site

What's the big deal? People come in, vote, and leave.

[Zynx]

17. Nothing wrong with that.

They are often local focal points of a community and are sometimes the only buildings large enough to house voting equipment in an area.

[Beer Snob-50]

18. voting at a church is no big deal

no separation issues here.

[L. Coyote]

19. D'oh. They are buildings!

[Momgonepostal]

20. Almost every time I go to vote it's at a church

The church just volunteers the space, the county supplies the staff to run the site. The church really has nothing to do with the election process. I don't know, I think it's generous to volunteer the use of their building. :shrug:

[ElizabethDC]

21. I vote at a church

actually, it's in the church's parish hall, not the church itself. I don't really think that it's all that odd or all that much of a problem - they're just using the building.

[Obamarama]

22. Wow...guess I just didn't realize so many polling places are churches.

I have only voted at schools and municipal sites as mentioned before. I've only checked where my voting site was going to be and didn't really pay attention to where other voting sites were.

I guess from a practical standpoint (space) it makes sense, but it still raises my spearation of church and state hackles.

Maybe if we changed our national voting day from a WEEKEDAY to a WEEKEND day, we'd not only likely get more voters participating in democracy, but we'd also have room for them to vote in our municipal buildings.

Thanks for the responses. I'm a little emarassed to discover I didn't know how common church-site voting is. Perhaps my concern was misplaced, but I still think that in a perfect world voting should not take place in a place of worship. But, as we all know this is decidedly not a perfect world.

[hisownpetard]

95. You don't have to convert - just sign in, vote and leave.

If it's held in a school gymnasium, you don't have to play basketball, either.

:shrug: :hi: :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

124. Not to worry. It's been debated here before and you have been reasonable.

As a poll worker, as someone who posted way downthread mentions, churches are great for the 5AM to 8PM pollworkers (and far too many are).

They have very clean restrooms, kitchens, and a quiet are to take a breather (usually the sanctuaries are off limits but there's often a nursing room or the like).

In my own experience, members have often brought us snacks and coffee/tea/etc. and been very kind; they are told to refrain from proselytizing and I've never seen it happen.

I've worked in schools, churches, stores, and post offices. Churches are easily the prime location for the poll workers!

[liberalpress]

157. Here in Tennessee

We have an early voting period. It runs beginning tonorrow (1-16) through the 31st. 8-5 every day. Come in when you can and cast a ballot. Surely people can find tome to vote in that two-week period

[SidDithers]

23. We use 'em in a Toronto suburb...

My polling place has been a church for our most recent municipal, provincial and federal elections.

I manage to avert my eyes while casting my vote :)

Sid

[napi21]

24. Our polling place in in a chuech here in Ga. and so was the one

in SC when we lived there. I also remember voting in a Walmart in SC. This church is not like the Catholic Churches many people think of. It's more like a meeting room...just a bog room with a lot of folding chairs and a podium in front. I still found the funniest to be voting inside the Walmart! I had recently moved to SC at the time, and whe I read that you vote at the Walmart store, I couldn't believe it! Well, lo and behole, I walked in and they had 6 votin machines set up inside the store but near the front. They had poll watchers and all!

[DB1]

25. Had no idea churches are used.Makes good case for Saturday voting.

[TCJ70]

30. Why would they change the venue depending on the day? n/t

[DB1]

46. Schools are available on saturday, as well as other public buildings.

[TCJ70]

61. There can be many more churches than schools in an area...

...having more voting places reduces waiting lines and gets voting done sooner. I'm not sure about our area here, but I've seen how it works at the church I attend and it's a really smooth process.

What is your biggest concern about using churches as voting sites?

[DB1]

63. That in some areas it would discourage non belivers from voting.

Not people here on DU, but others who are more prone to apathy.

[TCJ70]

79. Apathy will stop anyone from voting...

...church or no. If someone doesn't even believe in the God of whatever church it is they're visiting, what difference does it make?

[progdonkey]

35. don't you mean Sunday? n/t

[CK_John]

36. Saturday voting is a big problem for some religions. Weekend voting get around these problems.

I would like to see from Fri 6:00PM to Sun Midnite as polling time.

[DB1]

50. Good idea, or how about a voting holiday during the week? Use schools,

I just think having people vote in churches is WRONG and there are lots of options. The practice spits in the face of separation of church and state.

[cherokeeprogressive]

150. Try recruiting over 1300 polling sites in a county like we do here in OC CA.

As a former Registrar of Voters employee, I can testify to the fact that very few residents, private businesses, or even school districts will voluntarily give up a room from 6:00 a.m. until 9:00 p.m. on election day. Those that do are then inspected with a fine toothed comb to make sure that they meed the requirements of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act).

Voting equipment is delivered up to a week in advance and not picked up immediately following the election. Polling places are asked to store large pieces of equipment for sometimes more than 2 weeks.

Voters in OC complain when they have to travel more than 3 miles to a polling place. Churches are very widely distributed and usually have large auditoriums that facilitate voting through ease of access from the parking lot to the voting room.

Poll watchers would scream bloody murder if religion were in any way brought into the picture while voters were at the polls.

If you can figure out a way to facilitate the processing of over 1.5 million registered voters without using churches I'd like to hear it. I'm sure Neal Kelley, the Registrar of Voters in Orange County, CA would like to hear it as well.

[qb]

26. I've voted in a church for years... it is much more convenient than any public bldg I can think of.

They don't have any religious symbols or propaganda on display in the voting room. I would hope that no one feels compelled to vote differently because the vote is cast in a "House of God".

[DB1]

52. But you can't rely on your experience being nationwide.

You have no public school nearby?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

92. Schools are usually fully occupied on Tuesdays. n/t

[qb]

104. True. Undoubtedly some churches try to influence voters.

It's a tiny precinct. There is a school not too far away but it is used by another precinct. I wouldn't object to sharing that space in the name of church/state separation.

[Angela Shelley]

27. Hi KzooDem, I´m with you

I agree with you, but it seems like everyone else doesn´t mind.

It´s funny. Churches don´t have to pay taxes, report their income or their wealth, they discriminate on the basis of gender, race, and personal beliefs, their leaders can come up with new rules everyday and are not held accountable by their members, but yet ... we enjoy using their buildings to cast our vote.

Why not use McDonalds or Burger King as a polling station.
They have parking lots and clean toilets!

[Obamarama]

33. LOL...love the McDonalds/BK idea. We could even have drive-thru voting.

Would you like fries with that?

[Retrograde]

149. San Francisco uses Starbuck's

I've seen the Starbuck's on 9th and Irving used as a polling place: they clear off the front area and set up voting stations, and still have coffee in the back.

I've voted in garages, a firehouse, apartment buildings, and a few church halls. The church halls are a lot warmer and better lit than the firehouse, at least. My sister in New York votes in a combination town garage/dog pound, which as a poll worker she finds quite unpleasant.

[LanternWaste]

47. How does the internal policies of a church

How does the internal policies of a church have any effect on non-members casting a vote when used as a voting station?

Parking lots are a pretty bad idea if the weather is not nice.

[Angela Shelley]

58. It´s the SYMBOLISM when using a church as a polling station:

... Churches don´t have to pay taxes, report their income or their wealth, they discriminate on the basis of gender, race, and personal beliefs, their leaders can come up with new rules everyday and are not held accountable by their members, but yet ... we enjoy using their buildings to cast our vote. ...

It´s symbolic for the attitude in the country: "We really don´t want anything to do with you, but we would be glad to take advantage of your presence"

[TCJ70]

65. "We really don´t want anything to do with you..."

"but we would be glad to take advantage of your presence"

How exactly is that happening?

[Angela Shelley]

74. Try this: Start a thread at DU about "church and state".

about "teaching creationism in schools", etc.

More than a majority of the replies will be "WE want separation of Church and State".

But, in this current thread, the majority of the comments show that there is NO PROBLEM with using the church building for a polling station.

... Don´t teach my children creationism, but if you have an empty building we could use for the day, then we would b glad to take advantage of your presence ...

Everyone is happy as long as there are no costs involved. What would happen if the churches would ask for "rent" for the day? Oh my goodness, how Un-Christian of them to be asking a fee.

[TCJ70]

82. I see what you mean...

...I was reading your post backwards to what you meant. As in the church taking advantage of the people's presence.

[Angela Shelley]

86. Super! ...

that´s one misunderstanding down, 47 trillion to go! :-)

[LanternWaste]

96. I'm afraid I don't understand--

I'm afraid I don't understand--

Precisely how is the church taking advantage of voters?

On Edit-- Ahhh... the voters are taking advantage of the church. I see. Have there been reports of churches filing complaints regarding this 'abuse'?

My church is used as a voting station in federal, state and local elections, and there's never been a hint of feeling that the state is taking advantage of us. Indeed, we feel (to an extent) that it's simply one more way of helping the community.

[TCJ70]

101. Good luck!

[hfojvt]

72. the church is taking advantage?

When they allow their building to be used for public service? Heck, in a pinch, sometimes they are rented to use for school classrooms.

[Angela Shelley]

75. No ... it´s the polling public taking advantage of the church

[LanternWaste]

94. So then we may safely assume...

So then we may safely assume that usage of the church grounds for voting purposes has no effect on who a person is going to vote for and your problem is mainly one of a vague, self-defined symbolism?

[Angela Shelley]

108. The point was not that the church grounds were affecting

the voters.

The point was that voters do not even think about where the voting is taking place.

[LanternWaste]

156. Because the location is fundamentally meaningless.

"voters do not even think about where the voting is taking place."

Because the location is fundamentally meaningless. As long as there is no coersion, and the ability to cast with privacy is there, how/why in God's name would/could the location have any merit or relevance?

[Igel]

105. Dunno.

Early voting for where I live is in a supermarket that also has a small food court. They usurp the dining area for the voting stations.

My usual on-voting-day polling place is in a conference room at a hotel across from Reliant Stadium.

Churches? No problem. It was creepier voting in a senior citizen center in Los Angeles.

[newportdadde]

28. Unless your a vampire it shouldn't be an issue... of course then there is the sun so vote late.

[OHdem10]

29. In earlier times, Chruches were the only place African Americans

had to meet and hold elections.

This set the precedent now others do likewise.

I am not giving an oppinion just explaining the pracrice.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

31. Living in a rural community, any big open room will do.

It's a church or ... a barn? I've been voting in churches for years and it's all business, no real feeling that you're even in a church. We don't caucus here though ... all secret ballot. It could possibly impact caucus goers who might feel uncomfortable standing opposite other members of their community, congregation. Of course, that could happen at any caucus site ... even a casino.

[Strawman]

32. I was a poll watcher at a church building. Not a big deal, imo

As long as they keep anything that would be seen as advocacy related the appropriate distance from the actual voting booths that is mandated by state law, I don't see how it's a big deal. It's a building. Most of the time it's not in the actual church but some community room or gym that is adjacent or on church grounds.

[acmavm]

34. For years I voted in a church. I didn't have to attend services, I just

had to vote.

[eppur_se_muova]

37. They are big, EMPTY buildings which sit UNUSED six days a week.

All the energy to heat and cool them is generating greenhouse gases for Jeebuz.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

51. gosh...our church is in use 7 days a week...

we must be doing something wrong...

sP

[TCJ70]

54. I was about to say the same thing...

...maybe we should cut back.

[LanternWaste]

100. We heat and cool the offices six to seven days a week

We heat and cool the church offices six to seven days a week, but the main room and the smaller classrooms are closed off. In effect, the portions of the church not being used are usually not costing anything in utilities.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. Voting does not take place in the sanctuary but in the social hall

Every time I've voted in a church, I've gone in a side entrance that leads directly into the social hall, a large empty room with a commercial kitchen off to one side. The church and its employees have no control over the voting procedures or the ballot count, and like everywhere else, they are not allowed to have any campaign or other political materials up.

If your precinct is in a residential neighborhood and the public schools won't let you use their buildings during school hours, churches are the best option.

[TerwilligeRedux]

39. It's not like you kneel down to vote

you kneel down to pray AFTER you've voted

[zbdent]

40. what gets me is how Republicans are able to walk on "hallowed ground"

without going into hysterics on the par of the kid in "The Omen" ...

[JohnnyLib2]

41. Accessibility: it really is important.

We forget that too often.

[LanternWaste]

43. Churches have been used as voting sites since at least 1984

Churches have been used as voting sites since at least 1984 when I cast my first vote in a church.

Most rural communities in north central Texas use either public schools or churches depending on scheduling, size, location, etc.

[kevinmc]

44. I vote in a building at a church...n/t

[Renew Deal]

48. There's a couple church's that are polling locations near where I live.

I think it works well.

[Throd]

49. I'm an atheist who has no problem with this

[AngryOldDem]

53. I've voted in churches

And I don't see a problem. If there is no other building in a precinct that can adequately handle voters, there is really no other choice. Note, too, that voting is typically held in a gym, or a basement, or someplace else in the building that does not have any kind of overt religious symbolism.

What gets me are some campaign volunteers who always dare to see how close they can come to the polling place demarcation line when handing out material. Those folks can get aggressive and I have reported some to the election board, after telling them point-blank to get the hell out of my face.

[Bentcorner]

55. There is nothing wrong with this. Think of it as the churches doing

their civic duty to the community.

[dysfunctional press]

56. you're clueless. our polling place in chicago was in the basement of a church.

it's very common across the country.

[tuckessee]

57. I vote in an AA building.

I'm offended because I kind of have a fondness for libation.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

62. LOLLLL ... and many AA meetings are held in church basements!!

:wow: They must be in this together!!

[Blue_In_AK]

59. I vote at the Unitarian church down the street

Before that it was the Methodist church a couple of blocks from here. It doesn't bother me at all. We go in, we vote, we leave ... there's nobody there trying to convert us or anything. Sometimes a church is merely a building.

[DB1]

60. Maybe that is a factor, although small, in voter turnout?

[AngryOldDem]

68. Could be...

Especially if it's located in a convenient location, with ample parking, easy access to entrances, etc. Those are the only "factors" I see in helping voter turnout. Implying anything else, I think, is a stretch.

On Election Day churches become public buildings, just like any other venue (schools, community centers, etc.) that holds a polling place.

[TCJ70]

70. DB1 seems to think it suppresses voter turnout.

By making non-believers uncomfortable or something.

[DB1]

80. That is what I was saying. We are not all so poltically driven as....

to vote no matter what. I have lived in areas where I would avoid certain mega churches because they are so domineering. If I personally had to vote in a place like that I would, but I could see why others would not.

[Beausoir]

64. Our voting place/church has that huge picture of the Chimp praying with Lincoln and Washington.

I almost puked.

[madrchsod]

66. yes they are

and it`s no big deal..

[LSK]

67. I used to vote in a Church in Suburban Chicago

[LeftyMom]

69. Because they've got four walls, a roof, and usually a wheelchair ramp?

I've done my bit as a poll worker a few times, and I like when we're sited in churches, they have plenty of folding tables, etc we can use, and generally a nice kitchen we can heat our lunches in, which is a big deal if you're working from before 7 am until after 10 at night.

The lousiest polling place I've worked was a car dealership. It wasn't very warm in there and they couldn't spare many parking spaces, so we spent half the day asking people to move their cars. Plus no kitchen, so we had workers taking turns to leave and get food, which just doesn't work as well as when they pop out of the room to nuke something.

[blondeatlast]

81. Exactly. I've found salvation in a a church's kitchen several times as a poll worker!

And returned it neatly where I found it for the next person... :rofl:

[LizW]

71. I vote at a church

It is convenient, has a nice parking area, and the church ladies put out cookies and coffee. It is much better than the scary high school where I used to vote.

[kestrel91316]

73. Good voting sites can be hard to come by, I've heard.

As long as they're not having to listen to any prosetylization or vote in the frickin' sanctuary, I don't have much of a problem with this. I imagine if the public doesn't like it they can change their local rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. Why The Fuck Not?

There's not the slightest thing wrong with the concept. Not in the slightest.

Not sure what in the world you think is 'beyond the pale' or why you're so uppity about the concept, but I'd wager it's due to some deep rooted issue against religion that actually has nada to do with the actual concept of voting in a church. Regardless, I find the OP to be laughable.

On edit: I also see that you posted in the thread that it 'raises your separation of church and state hackles' blah blah. If it's one thing I LOATHE, it's people who take the separation concept to such ignorant and petty degrees, as to think that a concept like that in the OP would pertain whatsoever. It's those types of people who make our party look bad as it relates to religion. That type of melodramatic misinterpretation of what separation of church and state actually means is used constantly as fodder against us liberals, when in fact it is just the product of a small few who need to get their heads out of their asses and stop being so intolerant of religion.

[Angela Shelley]

84. ... my thoughts ...

... Churches don´t have to pay taxes, report their income or their wealth, they discriminate on the basis of gender, race, and personal beliefs, their leaders can come up with new rules everyday and are not held accountable by their members, but yet ... we enjoy using their buildings to cast our vote. ...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

87. ...

:boring:

[JerseygirlCT]

154. Hold on

That's a broad brush, and as is always the case when one is employed, it's inaccurate and unfair. Churches do NOT all discriminate, and leaders are *quite* often held accountable by members (my own church is very democratic, in fact, modeled on the US system).

[JerseygirlCT]

153. I could think of a reason

Having to do perhaps with which church is used. There are some that might reasonably make minority religious groups feel uncomfortable even entering the church... Might it stop someone from voting? I don't know, but that would be a concern, I think.

Yes, bottom line, they're buildings, period. And assuming one isn't voting in the sanctuary itself, but a church hall, it should feel like just a building. I know a whole slew of different community organizations commonly use our parish hall for meetings on a weekly basis, no problem.

But I think it's also a good idea in this very Christian-majority society to take a step back from time to time and be really sure that someone is not feeling disenfranchised.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

155. Not Sure What You Mean.

In what ways would certain churches (as opposed to any other church) make minority religious groups feel uncomfortable even entering? Not sure if you are presenting a real point with real reasons, or just saying something for sake of saying it. (I don't mean that as snarky either. I'm just curious as to the background of your reasoning)

[JerseygirlCT]

168. Say you were using a hard core fundie

place, one of those fire and brimstone, everyone but us is going to hell, let's kill all the Muslims places... Would a local Muslim feel entirely comfortable going in there? Or a place that regularly denounces "godless pagans" as "satanists"... would a pagan feel comfie in there?

As I said, I don't know that this is a concern, but I think it's one to be considered, and I'm not at all sure that it is, in this very majority Christian society of ours. I think there's a tendency in a lot of places to think everyone is just like me.

[RebelOne]

78. Here in Woodstock, Georgia, I know of at least one voting

site that is in a church. But the one I go to is at the high school.

[spanone]

83. i've been voting at a church for about 15 years....and voting democrat i must say

[go west young man]

85. I've a bit of a story in regards to this.

Two Novembers back my wife Elena who had just moved over from Voronezh, Russia accompanied me when I went to go vote in Brunswick, Georgia. We got to the Philadelphia Overcomers Church of God where my card said I was to vote and she was stunned it was at a church. Then she saw the gov't vehicle with an agent sitting in it out front. She said at the time it's freaky. I said it's america 2006. When we got inside a republican ID checker (checked my ID) I know he was a republican because I saw him previously putting out signs for Ralph Reed. I was informed I wasn't on their voting role even though I had a card with the Church's address on it. So they sent me across town to another church. My wife was stunned to see it was a church again. Same scenario. Secret service vehicle outside (Brunswick is where the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.) Then when we get inside once again my name isn't on their list. What I saw next was madness in my mind. Up at the Pulpit in the church where the preacher speaks was a full camouflage display with a mannequin soldier surrounded by boxes of ammunition with a sign saying support our troops. Elena was speechless. She said it's weirder than the Soviet Union. I had to agree. I am an agnostic and I fully believe the government should not be using Church's where people gather to worship imaginary beings to decide elections. I don't care about available space. It's immoral. The churches should pay taxes like everybody else and they should have nothing to do with government. It's freaky and a ruse that is used in corrupt ways in my opinion. The US needs to move into the 21st century and get out of the stone age. And get the church out of our government. Religious people would get a lot more respect if they worked for their god instead of taking advantage of opportunities like this to further their cause. The way things currently are I can't see how anyone could rationalize or believe in this madness whether political or religious. Separate church and state!

[go west young man]

90. In the heat of my post I forgot to mention I never got to vote.

Even though I had registered and had a card to prove it. I wasn't on "their" lists and I was excluded from voting and if I had said anything I'm sure that secret service agent outside would have escorted me away. Welcome to America!

[TCJ70]

99. You don't know that there was anything wierd going on...

...besides the dressed up soldier bit. Maybe you weren't on their list. Are you going to get mad at them for not allowing you to vote at a site you aren't on the list for? Should we start letting anyone who shows up anywhere vote?

Did it ever occur to you that you WEREN'T on the list?

[go west young man]

109. Damn your a trusting soul.

[LeftyMom]

112. Did you call your county elections office to find out what precinct you needed?

And why would the Secret Service be guarding polling places? We're elected officials going to vote there?

Your story doesn't make any sense.

edit: If you're voting out of precinct and aren't on the rolls, you can still get a provisional ballot.

[go west young man]

117. As I posted it's Brunswick Georgia.

Home of FLETC. The Ford LTDs were outside of both churches. Sitting in the shadows. Just like the KGB used to do. I am not mistaken.
My voting registration card was sent to me in the mail so of course I was registered.

[LeftyMom]

122. Your story still makes no sense.

They don't even make LTDs anymore. They do make Crown Vics, the car of choice for local cops, cabbies and old folks, but federal law enforcement mostly uses SUVs anymore. So if they were "lurking in the shadows, like the KGB" they'd be doing it in Explorers and Tahoes. Or it could be somebody waiting while mom tottered in and cast her ballot. Don't default to nefarious explanations without damn good reason, it makes you sound nutty.

In the future, call your local registrar's office to find out where you're supposed to go, and if you get any shit at least vote provisional. And keep the black helicopter stuff quiet, or somebody will challenge you on grounds of incapacity.

[go west young man]

138. I will concede one thing to ya there. They were Crown Victoria's

with gov't plates. I was wrong about the LTD's. I mixed them up becuase I'm used to thinking of them from the old days.

[go west young man]

140. As far as black helicopter shit. I know what I saw.

They were gov't cars parked (lurking) in the back of the church parking lots. As I said before it's Brunswick, Georgia where FLETC is located. Is it that hard to believe?

[cherokeeprogressive]

152. Yes it is. n/t

[TCJ70]

114. I was just wondering if it ever crossed your mind...

...that you weren't on their list. I guess I'm just not as quick to latch on to conspiracy stuff.

[go west young man]

119. Well I'm just the opposite I don't trust the government.

I see hypocrisy left and right so I am very quick to be nontrusting. I call it common sense these days.

[go west young man]

120. Does it not also occur to religious folks that are alright with this

that the act of voting in a church also lends credibility to that religious institution. It makes the church seem legit because the gov't is doing official business there. As an agnostic frankly I'm insulted I have to vote in that house of hypocrisy.

[TCJ70]

135. I don't know if the church needs the government...

...to make it feel legit. I think that's a bit of a stretch.

[doc03]

88. I live in a rural area and we have always

voted at churches, schools and the fire department. They are the only public places we have. A couple years ago parents started complaining about voting in the schools because a child molester may enter the school so now we are limited to Churches and the fire department.

[Occam Bandage]

89. In many areas, those are the only large, open, publicly accessable buildings.

[NOLALady]

93. We voted in the Church Hall before Katrina.

But, since we no longer have a Church we now vote at the school.

[iamthebandfanman]

97. i vote in the rec room of the nearby baptist church :P

they do it in a multi-purpose room with access to the street(they had no religious writings on the walls in view of public)

before that, i voted in an elementary school... but it has since closed after a school system merger years back and was moved to the church 2 blocks away

[Kucinich4America]

102. I live in a caucus state, and my precinct meets at a church.

But I don't go there to talk about God, only politics. For that matter, it's a fairly liberal church as far as I know. I don't attend services there, but I've seen rainbow flag symbols on the building before, so I'm guessing they aren't fundies.

Actually, I wish it were a fundie church, because I can't think of a better place to invade with liberal politics :evilgrin:

[Kazak]

103. My polling place (Oklahoma) has been in a Baptist church for years...

I'm a Unitarian Universalist, for what it's worth.

:shrug:

[wildbilln864]

106. I voted at a local church here...

in SC in 2006. Tghe Bible belt you know. :hi:

[Connie_Corleone]

107. This is nothing new. It's been going on for decades.

[B Calm]

110. I been voting in a rural church going on 30 years. Out in the country

there's not too many places to go and vote, so yes we do use churches. I know the church where I vote at, we vote in the lunch room, not where they worship.

[NoPasaran]

111. Before my precinct was merged with another, we voted at a church

There simply were no schools nor other public buildings in the precinct.

[Terran]

113. I vote at the local UCC

Not in the bloody church itself, in a gymnasium. I doubt very many people actually have to walk down an aisle between pews to cast a ballot.

[CottonBear]

115. Lots of churches. schools and fire stations are voting sites in my Southern city.

There's lots of parking and easy access for the voting public.

I vote in the public meeting room of my local fire station.

I used to vote in an elementary school.

In the country, I voted in little concrete block buildings which were built just for voting and voting machine (the lever kind) storage purposes.

[peaches2003]

116. Not in the sanctuary

There is nothing 'religious' about voting in a church. It is just a convenient location if a school or other public meeting place is not available. Voting is not done in the sanctuary, but in a fellowship hall or auditorium, there is nothing inherently religious about the place and no one associated with the church is even around. Totally run by the election officials like voting in any other place.

[mnhtnbb]

118. Our polling place was a church in Lincoln, NE

[AngryAmish]

123. Most places do not have dedicated voting sites

So in order to turn a church into a voting site the first step, I suppose, is for the local board of elections to ask permission of the church to use the church as a voting site.

If the church (through whatever decision-making mechanism the individual church has) says yes, then the local board of elections must tell some employees to bring the voting equipment over to the church. Then I guess someone at the church has to let them in. After that the employees of the board of elections must set up the equipment and prepare it to be used as a polling place. (While there are many board of elections volunteers, I am leaving them out of this discussion. When I say "board of elections employees" I am referring to all people, paid or unpaid, that are doing tasks for the board of elections.) I guess this should be done well in advance of election or primary day.

On the day of voting the church then has to open its doors to let the board of elections employees in to get ready for the voters. When the appropriate time comes the doors should be unlocked to let the voters in. When the voters come into the church they should be directed to the polling place to cast their votes.

When the appropriate time comes the doors should be closed. Then the votes should be transported to the vote counting place, the equipment removed and the church locked up.

This, in essence, is the procedure. I am sure there are more complicated issues I have left out (electioneering, restrooms, etc.) but this is the skeleton of how a church can be used as a polling place. I am sure fellow DUers who work or volunteered for the local board of elections could provide more detail, perhaps in flow chart form.

[Marrah_G]

125. I vote at a Catholic Shrine

They have been voting here forever and has never really made an impact- The church does not push it's political views here on election days. it is large and convenient for the community. Ours is held in a cafeteria they have off to the side.

As a Pagan perhaps you would think I would be outraged, but there really isn't anything here to get upset with.

ON THE OTHER HAND: If you have voting happening at a church that IS pushing their views in even the slightest way the venue needs to be changed.

[opihimoimoi]

126. Our Polling Place is at Keoki's Luau at Kalamakahiki Bay. After Voting, drink all night

Very Tribal area, women topless and men with lavalavas

[blondeatlast]

128. The OP has apologized and explained above and I think s/he is to be commended for it.

Thanks for taking the high road, KZoo Dem!

[go west young man]

144. The OP never apologized.

He just expressed that he didn't realize that it was taking place in so many towns. Nor should he apologize. He has a great point. religion and politics should not be mixing in any way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. Depends on the state and county

here in california at times even private houses are polling stations

My condo serves as a polling station, for example

[countingbluecars]

132. This can be a problem

as the line between politics and religion has become more blurred. During the 2006 election season in Virginia, a local church displayed the message "Vote YES For Marriage" (amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman) on their billboard in front of the church. The message remained on voting day.

[Der Blaue Engel]

161. Well that's clearly illegal

Didn't anyone report it?

[onenote]

166. was that church used for voting?

[countingbluecars]

169. Yes it was. n/t

[Thothmes]

173. If it was anything like our voting precint at a local school

there were dozens of signs for different candidates and some issues. As long as they are more than a specific distance (50 ft I think) from the polling place, they comply with Virginia election law.

[countingbluecars]

175. This was one of those

permanent bulletin type message boards with changeable letters. The sign is in front of the church. The polling entrance was in back of the church. Still, it didn't seem right to me.

[Solon]

136. Never had to vote in a church before, it was always the public elementary school...

they simply don't have any activities scheduled in the gym that day or library that day.

[goodgd_yall]

139. Think of it this way

If a service isn't going on, it's just a building. I've voted in churches before. The booths are usually in the "lobby" area of the church or in an annex building, not in the worship area.

[SoCalDem]

141. Can't use schools, because they are full of students

and the only "empty" buildings available tend to be churches & library's meeting rooms..

Other businesses are either open and hoping for customers, or too small to accomodate people..


and churches tend to be spread all over the town..

I don't have a problem with VOTING in a church multi-purpose room, nearly as much as having the preacher tell his congregants how to vote on Sundays when he has them as a captive audience..:evilgrin:

[donheld]

143. Who the hell gives a shit?

I've voted in 2 different churches near downtown Denver for years. It's no big deal. The voting is not done in any kind of sanctuary. It's off in some innocuous room apart from any kind of "worship" activity.

[MonkeyFunk]

145. I've often voted in churches

it's not like you vote in the apse.... it's usually a classroom or meeting room.

Not every town has enough public buildings to accommodate voters. Hell, in SF, I voted in people's garages.

Nothing wrong with voting in a room owned by a church.

[ThoughtCriminal]

147. Polling place may affect voting

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/139773

<snip>
"Making sure to account for demographics and party affiliation, the researchers found that while the influence was small — 2 percent to 3 percent — people who voted in precincts where the polls were a school were more likely to favor increased education funding. Furthermore, those who voted in precincts with nicer, newer schools were more likely to say yes than voters who voted in older, more run-down buildings."
</snip>

<snip>
"The team conducted lab studies to determine the impact of churches. The results showed participants were 25 percent less likely to support government funding for stem-cell research after being shown images of churches than when participants were shown pictures of other buildings. The researchers made sure to disguise the nature of the study by mixing the church images with other images."
</snip>

[go west young man]

174. It's amazing reading this thread how many "lefties" feel voting in a church is fine.

Man no wonder the Democratic Party got beat in the last two elections. We're all closet Republicans apparently and don't even realize it. To think that after all the Republican debacles,tricks and charades we've endured to not realize that the Republicans obviously have a method behind the madness that is voting in a church. Once again for other posters I will say that is it a place that people go to worship imaginary beings. Every town has a school. Every town has a gymnasium. Every town has a town hall, a fire department, a police department, schools, public buildings, stadiums. Yet they would prefer we vote in a church. There is a method to their madness. I say separate church and state if we are real Democrats. Get religion out of government if we care about the USA. Evolve and quit accepting the status quo just because we are religious.

[JerseygirlCT]

151. This has been going on for a long time - well before the past 7 years

And it still always takes me aback.

[RoadRage]

158. My voting sight is a Church..

I guess it honestly never occured to me that it was odd. In fact, almost all of the churches around here (Omaha, NE) are polling sites. In addition to schools, Vet Hospitals, Government Buildings.

It doesn't affect my vote one way or the other.. the polls are set up in the back gathering area.. not where the service takes place. I really don't even know what kind of church it is.. Christian I assume. Huh.

[RamboLiberal]

159. When I first started voting it was in a school basement

Then the city closed the school, so then it moved to a fire station till the city close that. So for a number of years it was moved to a church basement. Fun part was they had 2 precincts voting in the same basement and the basement was a maze to me. Somehow I always picked the wrong precinct first.

A few years ago it was moved again and now we're in the basement utility room of a senior citizens apartment.

I have no problem with it being in a church - that is sometimes the only place in the area that has room.

[VotesForWomen]

160. standard operating procedure, but wrong none-the-less. nt

[madmom]

162. my voting place is a church, used to be in the high school, but they said it was to disruptive .

[baby_mouse]

163. I don't see why not. What's the problem? NT

[and-justice-for-all]

164. I have never voted at a church...

and I hope I never have too. I have always voted at municipal locations and schools.

churches should not be a location to vote at.

[yurbud]

165. as long as they don't ask you to take communion or accept Jesus as your savior...

what's the big deal?

You need a building within a certain geographic area, and it fits the bill.

[Mz Pip]

167. Churches are buildings.

Big deal.

Now if Father Herman T. Fetusfreak is passing out literature or standing on a soapbox demanding a particular vote then there is a problem. BUt there are laws against doing that sort of thing at polling places.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[mondo joe]

170. This atheist has happily voted in a number of churches. I don't see the problem.

Voting in a church doesn't compromise the establishment clause. Governing from church does.

[Redneck Socialist]

171. My polling place is a church.

So was the one in the town I grew up in. Never gave it much thought. In many small towns it is the only building large enough to handle the crowds.

[Xenotime]

176. You are right...

There should be clearer separation between church and state. Having one as a polling site means they are endorsed by that govt.

[WillyT]

177. As Long As It's After Happy Hour

:evilgrin:

[ileus]

178. In BFE there's no municipal/school/fire stations...Churches are the only places in some areas.