No justice: why I'm not ready to move on

[info being]

The corporate media is now telling us how the American people are tired of arguing over Iraq and tired of talking about George Bush. They suggest that we are tiring of the bitter, "partisan" arguments that have divided us. They echo Obama's message when they tell us that we are ready to come together, put the past behind, and start dealing with the issues of tomorrow.

What they are asking us to do is to make nice, to forgive and forget. "We all agree that George Bush is a bad guy and maybe we did mess up Iraq, but that's behind us." So we're told. But there is one thing missing. Do we believe in justice or not?

Maybe we're living in a post-justice era. I mean, if someone were to murder a member of my family, I'd probably just forget about it and move on. You know...the loved one is already dead...what's done is done. I wouldn't let it eat me up. Hell no, I'd expect justice! I'd expect someone to be punished for the wrongs they have committed. Only when justice has been served can one even contemplate moving on and starting the healing process.

So we've had 8 years of rule by not just war criminals, but white collar criminals who have bankrupted our country for their own personal gain. Billions of dollars of our tax money is unaccounted for in Iraq. The list of criminal activity that *we know about* is too long for any given post on DU. Yet, the "opposition party" isn't able to assure us that anybody will be brought to justice? Let's all just pretend that the murderers and thieves who have exploited us are good guys who can continue with business as usual! Come on!

First justice, then we move on. Without justice there can be no healing. Our society can never be healthy if we are not able to speak plainly about what was done to us, and by whom, and punish them accordingly. Until that day all hope is empty, all unity feeble, and all progress reversible. If a society is no longer capable of bringing its own corrupt elements to justice, then it is no longer capable of maintaining its own existence.

But never mind all that. We're Americans. We obey. If we're told by NBC, CBS, Fox, and CNN to move on, then we shall move on.

[orleans]

1. truer words were never spoken

"Only when justice has been served can one even contemplate moving on and starting the healing process.

Without justice there can be no healing."

well said.

[acmavm]

2. The only reason they say this shit is because they want to get

away with all their dirty deeds.

edit: To add that is how we got in this mess in the first fucking place. Bill Clinton wanted to 'move on' with his administration so he shut down any investigations into all the rotten stuff that the Reagan/Bush I administration pulled.

Anyone who says we need to 'move on' needs an ass whuppin'.

[leftofthedial]

3. there is NO justice

crime pays

the bigger the crime, the bigger the pay

this country is a toilet of injustice

[info being]

4. Funny how this thread is sinking

Even people on DU these days are so drunk on the cool-aid they can't even discuss plain truth. We're fucked.

[Orsino]

5. Only means that the corporate media are getting tired of arguing over Iraq...

...and that they'd really appreciate it if you paid attention to something else now, until they can come up with another line of bullshit.

[DutchLiberal]

6. Moving on was easy after Johnson, Nixon, and George H.W. Bush...

With a little help from the opposition party, the big media and the collective short-term memory of the electorate, you moved on. You will this time, too.

[info being]

12. That's just it though...

...we haven't moved on. The very same people have been re-emerging throughout all of those regimes. When we are unwilling to bring them to justice, the crime-spree just continues.

[DutchLiberal]

14. You're right about that. But as a people, you have moved on.

You're cheering for and fighting over who will be the Democratic nominee for the presidential elections, without for one moment stopping and thinking about how your party has sold out to Bush and the Republicans for years; how your party has become a twin of the Republican party; how your candidates are already bought and paid for by big corporations and lobbyists etc.

You have moved on. If not: where are the mass protests against Bush and Cheney? Where are the revolutionary forces to thrive them out of the White House?

[info being]

17. I haven't moved on

I've moved away. But I agree with you that most people have moved on...as soon as they were told to.

We are now in a state of intellectual paralysis where all we talk about is what we talk about.

[fasttense]

7. Where can I donate money to the prosecution of the bushes?

I agree with you whole heartedly and am willing to my stimulus money where my mouth is. The problem is I'm not sure there are any groups out there willing to prosecute the bushes.

The closest I've gotten is the Center for Constitutional Rights. They were the ones to file war crime charges against Rumsfeld in France.

Here is a link to donate unless you know of a better group?

http://ccrjustice.org/

[info being]

9. I don't want to donate

I want my country to function. Through my taxes, I already pay for a criminal justice system and I already pay for representation. I'm not going to subsidize their failures by giving more of my money.

[fasttense]

24. Well we have a very dysfunctional country right now.

And the current criminal justice system just told Congress it can't prosecute any executive officials, if they are doing what the bush tells them to do - even if it's illegal. So aside from us funding citizen groups, I think there is very little hope that these criminals will be prosecuted with in the next twenty years.

I don't think everyone, despite what the corporate media does, is going to forget the crimes of the bushes.

For one thing, there will be a very serious economic downturn that will linger for many years to remind people of the bushes.

For another, more and more people will come out with horror stories of torture, abduction, imprisonment and corruption, reminding everyone of the war crimes committed.

Then there is a very fascist supreme court. They will declare the darnedest things unconstitutional, you know, like minimum wage laws, universal health care, pollution controls.

And finally, there will be a huge debt, a crumbling infrastructure and vanished manufacturing base that will prevent this country from taking care of it's citizens. This will remind us all that supreme court selections of presidents has consequences.

No, we wont forget but I doubt anything will be done about it in the next twenty years. How long did it take to bring Pinochet to trial? He ended up dying before they could have justice.

[SIMPLYB1980]

8. Great post thank you.

[Preston120]

23. Tell us what you really think! - I like it!

[bdamomma]

10. kick

[femrap]

11. K and R

I'm with you 100%. I have no respect for the majority in Congress. They are complicit. BO, imho, has been bought by The Corporation (Daddy) and it has provided him with The Best Marketing Plan Ever to get elected. This 'forgive and forget' crap appeals to the 'religious' folks who voted for W both times...their stupid decisions/sins are now erased. They are let off the hook...and of course they have no idea of what W and his little evil cabal have done because they just watch MSM and its propaganda.

His message of 'hope' and 'yes you can' appeals to the young and newbies to politics (baby boomers included)...they can't believe what has happened to their country and are willing to grab a hold of anything...even false hope. BO will sorely disappoint. If the young people today think he is going to lead him to the promised land, they are going to be pissed off....too much damage has been done to this country's financial house of cards.

I want Justice...how can we be a Democracy w/o Justice?

[Solly Mack]

13. K&R

[TahitiNut]

15. The SOLE legitimacy of any system of governance is to maintain justice.

Economic justice, social justice, criminal justice ... this is the FUNDAMENTAL rationale for the creation of ANY system of governance. Without it, NO system of governance can be morally legitimated.

Read "A Theory of Justice" by John Rawls.

[flyarm]

16. ahhh yes and then the time warp will make * and cheney just as sweet as they made Reagan..

oh yes we have seen this number before ..or have we..about all the youth following Obama..do they understand what is happening here..i think not..yes we will have a love fest..so little lord pissy pants will have a "lovely legacy"..and no one will be held accountable for an illegal war..because we will be so busy with warm fuzzies..

and no questions will be asked about the lies surrounding 9/11..no we need flowers for everyone..as our economy collapses..all around us..

there will be no accountability for people who have died suspiciously by suicides all over this country..you know about them..anyone who bothered to ask real questions or point out the lies with proof to back them up..

who will bring Dr Kelly back to life??????????? ah shit ..he didn't matter did he..even though he dedicated his life to peace..and protecting all of us..by being an scientific inspector..

yes we all need some Kumbaya now..

get in a circle everyone,....we need love and harmony..

....while little lord pissy pants goes to his ranch in Paraguay..and sips umbrella drinks ..long enough for you to forget all the harm he has done..so when he dies we can have a love fest for him.

fly

i am not ready to move on either..my co-workers were killed on 9/11 as well as my neighbors sons..i want answers and i will demand those answers.. if it takes till my last breath.

[govegan]

18. Well said!

In the words of Dr. ML King:

Our hope for creative living in this world house that we have inherited lies in our ability to reestablish the moral ends of our lives in personal character and social justice. Without this spiritual and moral reawakening we shall destroy ourselves in the misuse of our own instruments.

Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable. Even a superficial look at history reveals no social advance rolls on the wheels of inevitability. Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals. Without persistent effort, time itself becomes an ally of the insurgent and primitive forces of irrational emotionalism and social destruction. This is no time for apathy or complacency. This is time for vigorous and positive action.

As you mention, NBC, CBS, FOX, and the others are very much allies of "insurgent and primitive forces of irrational emotionalism and social destruction" (as described by MLK) are they not?

[AndyTiedye]

19. Move The War Criminals On To the Hague

[madokie]

20. we have to not forget the press is complicit in most if not all this illegality

so its in their better interest if we let bygones be bygones. I think all in this cabal should get their day in court like everyone else who commits a crime do.

[Usrename]

21. The only way to secure the future is by prosecuting these criminals.

Some of these guys are retreads on their third of fourth criminal conspiracy, working for their third or fourth administration.

If we fail to prosecute them now, and impeach the president in order to deny them pardons, they will be back again. Count on it.

They will never police themselves, they don't even know why they should. It's up to us to stop them! Or there will be no future.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x182007

[warren pease]

22. You can't really expect much else from the unofficial Ministry of Propaganda...

There's a good reason giant conglomerates went on a media buying spree, particularly after Clinton's 1996 Telecom Act, one of the top 10 most anti-democratic piece of legislation in pre-Bushean US history because its predictable results -- in fact, its intended outcome -- was to narrow the range of acceptable political discourse to a small slice located between non-ideological rightwing corporatists and religiously insane, frothing-at-the-mouth wack jobs from the far, far right -- Cheney being a prime example.

Thanks to a 30-year frenzy of mergers and acquisitions that began under Raygun, wink-and-nod FCC "oversight" and Congressional fear of invoking existing anti-trust law, the American marketplace of ideas is now ruled by six massive conglomerates that control the content of more than 90 percent of what most of us see, hear and read.

So what? Well, for one thing, a significant majority of news, entertainment and alleged information US audiences see is vetted for its support of status quo corporate values and purged of "dangerous" unconventional narratives – such as the heresy of regarding media consolidation as a clear and present danger to freedom and democracy.

For example, NBC is owned by General Electric, one of the world's largest armaments manufacturers in 2006 and among the six largest media-owning conglomerates in the US. GE also manufactures and maintains engines for the F-16 Fighter jet, Abrams tank, Apache helicopter, U2 bomber, Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle (UCAV), A-10 aircraft and numerous other military equipment including planes, helicopters, tanks and more.

Is it reasonable to expect NBC to report critically on the status and duration of the Iraq occupation? Or is it more likely that NBC's occupation coverage will tell us that the "surge" is working, that US troop casualties are down, that the US doesn't torture, that the Iraqi puppet regime is gaining traction and, if we can just hang on for another decade, things should turn out hunky-dory.

Well, 10 more years would certainly put smiles on the faces of our tireless war profiteers -- weapons makers, international banks, fossil fuels monoliths, drug companies (who'll be needed to supply allopathic treatment to veterans for everything from PTSD to pain killers) and the rest of the slime creatures who feed off the green scum at the bottom of the barrel.

GE is only one of the main offenders. We could just as easily discuss how thoroughly Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. has polluted the national discourse and probably lowered the national IQ by at least one standard deviation. Or how the acquisitive tentacles of Viacom, CBS, Time Warner and Disney -- and their monopolistic precursors -- have managed to take a relatively engaged population and, in 30 short years, turn it into a nation of compliant, ill-informed, politically illiterate, chowder-head debt slaves, content to consume their prescribed diet of goods, services and ideologies from an equally uncritical perspective.

American mass media lost the thread of the story decades ago and are now only qualified to dish pop culture infotainment masquerading as news; report breathlessly on the latest D-class celebrity screw-up; and act as stenographers and cheerleaders for the latest batch of official Bush administration lies.

Fortunately there's the Internet, the foreign press, "alternative" magazines and newspapers ("alternative" being code for "truth told here") and smart, inquisitive friends. Otherwise, I'd probably be just another American vegetable, thinking the US embodies the American creation myth, a wonderland of peace, justice and equality for all that only intervenes internationally to advance the cause of freedom and democracy and wouldn't hurt a fly unless absolutely forced to by the foul deeds of Islamic evil doers.

If ignorance is bliss, you'd think there'd be considerably fewer people in the US on anti-depressants. Wonder what's gone wrong?


wp

[lonestarnot]

25. sss sss ssss snakes on a motherfucking plane!

:evilgrin:

[LWolf]

26. I'm ready to move forward.

The way to do so is to bring the criminals to justice. That's how we get closure so that we CAN move forward and leave the Bush years behind. Otherwise, we're just dragging them along with us.

[Lenka Bliss]

27. Kicking mules

A mule will labor ten years willingly and patiently for you, for the privilege of kicking you once. - William Faulkner
I hope we're gonna kick them badly for all they've done.
And hopefully, there'll be more justice than an old saying that "GWB was the worst president"...

[donkeyotay]

28. Perfect. That's exactly what it is: the "post-justice era."

I remember back before the two-year season of "Who'll be he Next President" started. We had come to a place where the country seemed ready to face some truth about the country. How very convenient that it's all been forgotten. A stroke of Axelrod genius, really. All I can do is admire how completely they have screwed over he country. Justice is so last century.