What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

[midnight armadillo]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120425355065601997.html?mod=pj_main_hs_coll

What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?
Finland's teens score extraordinarily high on an international test. American educators are trying to figure out why.
By ELLEN GAMERMAN
February 29, 2008; Page W1
Helsinki, Finland

High-school students here rarely get more than a half-hour of homework a night. They have no school uniforms, no honor societies, no valedictorians, no tardy bells and no classes for the gifted. There is little standardized testing, few parents agonize over college and kids don't start school until age 7.

Yet by one international measure, Finnish teenagers are among the smartest in the world. They earned some of the top scores by 15-year-old students who were tested in 57 countries. American teens finished among the world's C students even as U.S. educators piled on more homework, standards and rules. Finnish youth, like their U.S. counterparts, also waste hours online. They dye their hair, love sarcasm and listen to rap and heavy metal. But by ninth grade they're way ahead in math, science and reading -- on track to keeping Finns among the world's most productive workers.

This article is seriously fascinating. They spend less per child than the US and have far better outcomes. From reading it, I suspect their success is due in part to two factors: the teachers are highly value and very well trained, and they let kids actually be kids.

[hobbit709]

1. I bet the parents stress education more too.

If you don't learn the basics of reading at home, as far as I'm concerned you're already running behind.
How many American families don't have any books at home-quite a few from what I've seen. My grandfather taught me to read by the time I was four. By the time I was six, I was reading in two languages-German and English. By the time I started going to an American school in the 4th grade, my reading and comprehension skills were at a 9th grade level. Even money says that the Finns also teach critical thinking instead of rote memorization too.

[JDPriestly]

2. They don't start school until they are 7.

American children are pushed and shoved into learning long before they are ready. Children need time to explore the world, to learn their own language and to become physically coordinated and confident before they start sitting in classes and doing homework for endless hours a day. I remember how hard it was to sit still in school. My mind wandered constantly. It was so boring listening to other children struggle with reading or algebra. And the children who were struggling were even more bored than I was. We all needed a couple more years of learning about life before we learned from books.

German and Austrian children start school at the age of 6. Before they begin school, they attend three years of kindergarten (half-days and cost-free) during which they learn to play with other children, put their toys away, make things (crafts), sing songs, listen to stories and, in their third year or when they seem ready, organize pictures into a story and maybe tell their own stories. I believe that Russian children, like the Finnish, start school at the age of 7.

It does not surprise me that the European children who start school when they are more mature perform better than their American counterparts. Having children who began school and attended kindergarten in Germany and Austria, I can say that based on my experience, American teachers are far. far better than their German and Austrian counterparts. If we want to improve the academic performance of our children, we should provide them with more years of pre-school (without all that pressure to learn the alphabet and numbers) and begin first grade at the age of 7.

[LWolf]

14. One of the reasons for universal preschool in the U.S.

is that we don't have a high-quality day care system for all.

Another reason: The kinds of activity and stimulation a child gets from birth to age 4 grows the neural connections for future academic learning. Way too many American children grow up in front of the tv instead of interacting directly with the world and with other people. If our culture valued allowing children to explore, interact with people, and develop language in their homes, we wouldn't need to pull them out of their homes earlier. As it is, kindergarten is not a level starting ground. Those kids that come from homes that do allow for exploration, language development, and social interaction are ready. Those that don't, aren't.

Pre-school, and kindergarten for that matter, doesn't have to be academic. They should, as you pointed out, be places to learn social skills, personal organization, and to develop language. Of course, that's not what is currently happening in the U.S., and that's a shame. The constant push to get them ready for high-stakes tests is the most destructive force in public education today.

For that matter, it's possible to organize curriculum and learning so that kids aren't in seats all day long, doing homework all night long. To do so, though, we have to be willing to restructure our schools. We have to be willing to do away with the factory school model, and pay for larger classrooms, smaller class-size, and a longer school year. To do so, we have to be willing to re-organize curriculum away from long laundry lists of "standards" and towards learning to think as the foundation for all the skills that follow. Inquiry-based curriculum and instruction provides such a structure, for example.

Children don't need to be drilled in phonics and math facts in pre-school, but they can learn to appreciate literature and language, and they can learn higher-level thinking from the very start. They can learn to cooperate, to be responsible, and how to listen, think, and interact with ideas as well as objects. Too many children in the U.S. don't learn these things at home.

[JDPriestly]

65. Great post, thank you LWolf

[immoderate]

17. The crafts part strikes me.

Making and building allow for neural development, problem solving, and reality testing. It's the theory behind occupational therapy. Singing and dancing are good too.

--IMM

[knitter4democracy]

74. That's why Waldorf schools teach knitting in 1st grade.

It helps with fine motor control, math skills, and writing skills (if you use bigger needles, they are the same size as pencils). Later, they learn woodworking (for geometry and more) and other crafts. Very important.

[Zorra]

3. They go to Finnishing school?

(Sorry, it's a dirty job, but somebody had to do it)

[Darth_Kitten]

32. hee hee.

You're a saucy one. :)

[Enrique]

42. bad Zorra

:spank:

[TahitiNut]

51. You'll go to Helsinki for that.

:spank:

[UndertheOcean]

4. They eat lots of fish oil ?

[Bandit]

30. I don't know if you meant that as a serious post or not but it is the truth

Omega 3 is known to enhance mental capacity as well as blood circulation and general mental health. And they do eat far more fish than Americans as do the Japanese and they also are near the top in education.

[JDPriestly]

66. Maybe they eat lots of herring.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

72. lol! My parents always told me that fish were "brain food"!!!

[MeDeMax]

5. Linus Torvalds = Finnish kid = Linux movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds

another Finnish kid.

[fujiyama]

6. On an another note

Nokia is a Finnish company.

[demnan]

7. I bet they don't have the insane dialog

about whether evolution should be taught in the schools over there.

[MeDeMax]

8. you are 100% right

most countries teach evolution and perhaps intelligent design and move on to other things, leaving kids to decide for themselves.

[immoderate]

18. If you learn about evolution, ID is stupid.

--IMM

[Bandit]

33. and perhaps intelligent design

Sorry but you can't do both. That is like saying we teach that two plus two is four and also that five plus five is four as well. You just can not teach both as they are exact opposites.

[Caria]

38. Who teaches "Intelligent Design"?

Every Eurpean with whome I've ever discussed the issue regards the notion of teaching ID as "Science" in school as one of those US oddities (ID is sometimes part of religious instruction).

[Tindalos]

41. ID is mostly an American thing

The only people I've ever met who doubted evolution were American. AFAIK intelligent design isn't taught anywhere else.

[Zhade]

64. There's no deciding. ID IS WRONG. IT'S BULLSHIT.

IT'S NOT SCIENCE.

[Joe Chi Minh]

84. Science is the most superficial form of knowledge there is. Evolution

has been found to be a uniquely apt assumption for the purposes of scientific research, and it would be foolish in the extreme to abandon it. But evolution would obviously be a greater tribute to God (who, however, doesn't need tributes) than a 'urnkey' creation.

Unintelligent design is surely, possible. Someone could make a paper aeroplane and botch the folding of the paper somewhat, but what is certain is that non-intelligent design is an oxymoron. Surely, the most primordially stupid that mankind was capable of, is capable of, or ever will be capabale of. The very word, 'design' implies 'intelligence' a priori. It is built into the nature of our language and the sense or meaning it conveys. 'Non-intelligent design' is like 'ugly beauty' or 'desperate serenity'. THANK THE GOOD LORD ID IS NOT SCIENCE. It appertains to an immeasurably more hard-wired kind of truth, called, 'sense' or 'logic'.

[Lorien]

82. Name one other country that teaches ID. n/t

[BadgerLaw2010]

91. ID is trash and fails the scientific method.

[displacedtexan]

9. With the sweet (smart) comes the sour (suicide rate)

In Europe statistics are collected from 33 countries. The latest available data for the group 15-24 years of age, shows that the Russian federation is at the top of the list (32/100,000), followed by Lithuania, Finland, Latvia and Slovenia. {/i]

link

I taught several Finnish exchange students, and they all mentioned the high
suicide rate among teens at home. They all hoped that their exchange experience
would help them, both academically and socially.

[xchrom]

10. they give kids time to be kids --

and somehow manage to take the stress out of being in school it sounds like.

[recoveringrepublican]

11. How many hours do their parents work?

I also think that's a big problem here. I'm going to assume that finish parents aren't forced to work 40+ hours? I hear teachers/society complain how it's the parents, and they may very well be right. When one is working crazy overtime (and usually not paid overtime) or 2-3 jobs (remember that single mother talking to Bush?) I would think it would be hard to find time to just say hello to ones kids, let alone help with homework/projects and find other ways to enhance their child's education. I'm not going to mention just being there to help their kids "stay out of trouble". I think a lot of the problems in this country are because people work so much. Usually because they need to survive.

[libbygurl]

44. The medical, social, economic safety net of Finnish (and other Scandinavian) society(ies)...

...takes care of these problems that plague the I-me-myself-and-only-for-myself mentality that still has a viselike grip upon the American mind.

Which is why I think the problems with the educational system here are just a symptom of the deeper problems in US society as a whole.

[recoveringrepublican]

92. I agree

I realize that things like domestic abuse, child abuse, divorce, robberies etc happen for various reasons, but I can't help thinking that if the financial stress wasn't there they would happen less.

[AngryAmish]

12. genes?

There may be a genetic component to intelligence> Studies are unclear, tho.

[LWolf]

13. Here are some significant factors that you missed:

<snip> Despite the apparent simplicity of Finnish education, it would be tough to replicate in the U.S. With a largely homogeneous population, teachers have few students who don't speak Finnish. In the U.S., about 8% of students are learning English, according to the Education Department. There are fewer disparities in education and income levels among Finns. Finland separates students for the last three years of high school based on grades; 53% go to high school and the rest enter vocational school. (All 15-year-old students took the PISA test.) Finland has a high-school dropout rate of about 4% -- or 10% at vocational schools -- compared with roughly 25% in the U.S., according to their respective education departments.

"Largely homogeneous" = easier to teach. Diversity is great, but presents more challenge in the classroom. That's just reality.

One of the greatest predictors of student achievement in school has nothing to do with the schools, or the teachers, themselves. It's parent ed level and socio-economic status. With fewer disparities in SES, Finnish schools are going to have a higher level of achievement.

Finally, the mandate in U.S. schools is to prepare every last student, including the cognitively disabled, for college. We don't sort them into vocational schools when they don't show the intellectual and academic potential for college. That's one reason why we have a higher drop-out level; those students who don't have the desire nor the capacity to go to college, instead of getting vocational training, are a lot more likely to drop out. If we narrowed the field of students the last three years of high school to those who are academically inclined, our graduation rates would obviously increase.

[Sadie5]

15. There is something about the age thing

I have three daughters, two college grads. Both went to school at around age 6-7 and both were ready to sit in the classroom and were reading before going to kindergarten. My middle daughter started kindergarten at age four because of he Sept. birthday and was not prepared to leave home those half days. Although she managed to get a decent grade average she never excelled like the other two, sometimes feigning illness to stay home from school. I spoke to the teacher when we enrolled and explained that I thought it better to keep her home another year but was told that due to the age cutoff and the large enrollments at that time that she would not be able to go to kindergarten the next year but would have to go right into the first grade which scared me because she would be totally unprepared.School boards decide most of this stuff.

[LWolf]

22. Of course there is.

Traditional classroom structure is not developmentally appropriate for younger students.

That doesn't mean that preschool is bad, just that it has to be structured to be developmentally appropriate.

Frankly, traditional classroom structure isn't appropriate for ANY age. We learn to survive it, but that doesn't mean that it's the most effective way to set things up. As already mentioned, in order to address that, we need to move, as a nation, away from the factory model.

[JDPriestly]

67. I have a daughter born in September.

The pediatrician in the town in Austria in which I lived before she was born called all the mothers who were to give birth in September to a meeting. (She did that each month or so with all the pregnant women of the town. Just who was pregnant was no secret since in addition to single-payer health coverage, Austria actually gave money to the mothers provided the mothers went to a specified number of pre-natal doctors' appointments.) At the meeting for the mothers expected to give birth in September, she advised us that we should all hold our children back a year and delay their entry into school so that they would be mature enough for school when they would begin. That was just wonderful.

I have to add that on the whole European children enjoy better health care than their American counterparts. Much better health care on the average.

[LWolf]

94. I have no doubt.

Do European children enjoy safer, more stable homes, as well?

It takes a thick hide to work with America's children every day, and see what too many of them endure at home.

This year alone, I have a homeless student, a student whose mother is sneaking around behind dad's back to get him the counseling he desperately needs, (since dad refused,) a student who finally reported a 4-year hell of molestation by her father, a student dying of a terminal illness, often in school when he shouldn't be, because his single mother is at work and we don't want him spending his last months alone at home, two students who are dealing with alcoholic mothers and neglect, and then there are those whose families are experiencing bankruptcy and foreclosure.

I have feuding families lining up and taking sides in a current war in which both students have formally charged each other with sexual harassment stemming from "teasing" about who was "going out" with whom.

I have other parents who have refused to allow their children to be in the same room with the school counselor. They object to the district's "anti-bullying" curriculum that the counselor is REQUIRED by the district to teach to every class. Interestingly, their children are some who could use such instruction the most.

I have a pair of sisters who are rebelling against their hard-line authoritarian father, and playing their divorced parents against each other while complaining bitterly about their father's string of young girlfriends; he's moved two of them in to live with them so far this year.

It's my job, in the midst of our daily dramas, to try to make sure learning occurs. It's not always easy to keep everyone focused on our purpose.

[JDPriestly]

110. Actually, when we lived in Europe, I saw quite a bit of

spanking and worse, much worse. I consider that to be child abuse. Thanks to the safety net that every European provides, families are financially more secure even when not better off. But Europe, like the United States has its share of crazy people. A lot of the problems in the homes of American children are do to neurotic or even insane parents. The single payer health care and systems for treating the mentally ill in Europe help keep more of the really troubled parents in control of themselves. Still, European children sometimes grow up in terrible home situations. That is universal although probably more common here.

Some European parents are overly strict.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. Having been a college professor, I can state emphatically that not everyone should go

and it has nothing to do with race or socioeconomics. Wealthy suburban white kids with no academic aptitude do NOT belong in college. All they do is complain that their courses are "too hard" and "really boring," but they want those high grades and complain even more if they don't get them. They get drunk three times a week (Friday, Saturday, and Wednesday "hump day"), and then claim that it's their right because "they work so hard."

Such students would be much happier learning a skilled trade or starting a business.

I recall classmates even back in the 1960s talking about how they were looking forward to 11th and 12th grade, when they could take four hours of non-academic, vocationally oriented courses.

We don't have a coherent system of vocational education for students who lack academic aptitude.

[LWolf]

20. That's true.

It's also true that we have been chanting the mantra "All children can learn" since the 80s. Of course they can, but that mantra has been interpreted to mean that all children can achieve the same levels of academic proficiency, which is patently false.

It's just grown worse under NCLB, where all children are going to be above average or public education will be privatized.

At our staff xmas party, I was talking to one of our special ed aides about an 8th grade student. I was asking about possible vocational programs, or life-skills programs for him. He is mainstreamed into regular ed classes at this time. He's been through the psychological testing mill over and over, with no conclusive diagnosis. Possibly brain damage from a difficult birth. Possibly autism. Possibly both. Serious problems with both short and long-term memory. He can't read, although he's had remedial reading courses for 7 years now. He can't count on his fingers. He can't write more than his name. He can listen to books on tape, and talk about what he hears. He can draw. That's about it.

Anyway, his special ed aide was offended by my question. He believes that this student can, and should, go to college.

[rtassi]

28. Agreed ... however, I seasonally employ college age young men and women ...

who don't lack the aptitude for college, but rather have pierced through the myth that a college education for all it's expense, is in and of itself the key ingredient for a successful life! It pains me to see them regarded by our society as less than a person who graduated college, when in fact they often times are much more creative, inspired, and capable of more critical thinking. I had intended to reply to #13 .. sorry! I guess I should have been more attentive in class!

[LWolf]

96. Neither of my sons finished college.

I come from a blue-collar background. My father finished 8th grade, and died a truck driver. My mother, who wanted to go to college, was discouraged in high school. Her family nixed the advanced math and science classes she loved in favor of home-ec and typing. They told her that her job was to work as a nurse or a secretary until she married. So she worked as a secretary most of her life, and raised me as a single parent while she was at it. She often waitressed evenings to keep us afloat.

I am the first, and the only, person from either side of my family to earn a college degree. My mom finally went back to community college after I got out of high school to get her AA, but didn't go further than that. I, following in the family tradition, got married and had babies straight out of high school. I went to night school for 15 years to finish my degree, and worked at one and sometimes two jobs to raise my kids, as a divorced parent.

When my boys graduated, they were interested in college. They both went to community college, and the older boy completed his AA. They looked at my life, though, saw what I'd gone through to complete my education, and how much money I was paying on student loans, and how much money I WASN'T making with my degrees, and chose not to spend their lives that way. My older son made more money than I in his early 20s, after I'd already been teaching for 10 years.

They have plenty of aptitude. They are well-read, they are complex and independent thinkers, and I can count on them to keep ME intellectually honest. If we had universal public school through trade school or college, they both would have continued their formal education. One wanted to major in something music related; I don't even remember now. He is a musician, playing small local gigs evenings and weekends, and managing a music store during the day. He still makes more money than I. One wanted to be a computer programmer. He works in a local retail business, and has written a novel on the side. He is also a single parent, with full custody of his child.

[Joe Chi Minh]

85. This is the great curse of atheistic Socialism. They don't understand that

grace builds upon nature. You don't change things by simple acts of the will. The imbecilic right, on the other hand, relies on that truth to justify their recidivism; if we don't progress as human beings (including as social creatures), we must regress, and that is an immutable truth. In the UK - I kid you not - the left consider vocational training for youngsters with a practical aptitude, patronising! Which just shows their own covert and laughably misconceived, intellectual snobbery.

If the left are like fairly domesticated chimpanzees, the right are wild animals. To the credit of the right, however, provided it doesn't affect their bank balance, they tend to show some measure of common sense in many areas. Look at how they've been running rings round the Democrats. "The children of this world are wiser after their own fashion than the children of light." That is because they know what they want and go for it.

The left are attracted by the same meretricious bling-bling, the obscene gew-gaws of affluence, in the face of the poverty of their fellow citizens, and when they've made their pile, move further and further to the right. Their idealism, such as it is, very, very seldom takes root very deep or for very long. The UK Labour Party - now of course, unrecognisable - has been a wonderful laboratory in which to observe all of this. Both left and right are now atheist agents of chaos, new Labour just more subtly feral.

[AP]

27. I don't think diversity is the challenge. I think inequality is the challenge.

And I think it really comes down to economic inequality.

The article doesn't talk about parents' economic inequality, but I know that the scandinavian countries have some of the lowest income inequality in the world.

And the article does make the point that the schools themselves are "equal" -- Finland doesn't have differences between schools to the degree that the US has differences between, for example, Beverly Hills High School and high schools in the Bronx.

[LWolf]

34. You are correct about inequality.

By "diversity" I don't just mean racial or ethnic diversity. Economic class is a bigger division than race in the schools I've taught in. Of course, it's not an accident that more non-white people fall into those lower SES groups. Cultural diversity plays a part as well; culture in the U.S. is not homogeneous. It shapes the values that students enter school with. Valuing learning for itself, valuing others, and being open to seeing things, and learning things in a variety of ways, and open to exploring multiple perspectives really makes a difference.

If we could address only one of the big factors affecting student achievement, though, I wouldn't start with school reform. I'd start with social and economic inequalities. We could make a real difference, effect truly significant change for the better, by starting with the foundation we build on: social and economic justice.

[AlphaCentauri]

60. I think cultural diversity is not the problem, the educational system is

In Finland teacher are trained to be teacher and they are required to have a master degree, kid are required to learn 2 foreign language in elementary, some facts:

1.In Finland, students pay no tuition from preschool through graduate school, and meals are provided in schools at no charge to all students rather than just to those from low income families.

2.Students are required to learn two foreign languages starting at the primary school level.

3.Teachers may teach what they want as long as they follow the core national curriculum, and they even choose their own textbooks.

4.Preschool is optional but since most mothers work, children usually begin preschool at age one.

5.All teachers in Finland must have master’s degrees and many have higher degrees.

6.Teachers are paid as much as physicians and lawyers.

7.There are four schools at hospitals so that students will be able to keep up with their studies while hospitalized.

8.Helsinki students are also involved in several international projects.

9.Teach young people how to apply knowledge and not how to repeat it.

10.Everything is free including universities.

11.Powerful teacher union.

12.Flat tax 22% system and the churches pay taxes

13.School psychologists one for every 800 children.

14.Teacher must be certified to teach.

[LWolf]

69. Cultural diversity is not a problem. It's reality,

and I think it is a strength.

The article linked in the OP mentioned the homogeneous Finnish population as one reason why what happens in Finnish schools cannot easily be replicated in the U.S.

I can't speak for the nation, but the two states I've taught in both require both subject matter competency and that prospective teachers be trained in teaching methodology. If some teachers do not have that level of education and skill, it is usually for one of two reasons:

1. Teacher shortage: to address this, our nation needs to respect teaching as a profession and to pay teachers a professional wage. There has been an organized effort to scapegoat teachers (and public education) over the last generation; it makes it easier to advance the privatization agenda. That you believe teachers are the problem is evidence of how effective this effort has been.

2. The almighty dollar. Less qualified, less experienced teachers make less money on the salary schedule, making them more attractive to cash-strapped districts.

I've been a supporter of universal public pre-school through college/trade school for many years. I've also been an opponent of the standardization of curriculum and instruction that has taken place during the last decade with the "standards and accountability" movement. If you've been anywhere I have been, in person or online, you'll have heard me promoting many of the "facts" you list in American schools. You can read some of my other posts in this very thread for more.

Reality is this: there have been efforts to provide much of what you list as positives above in many schools across the nation. I know, because I've taught in them. The end result is always a top-down re-organizing and return to the traditional U.S. factory school model. It's not the schools, but the politicians and politics setting the policies in the U.S..

[midnight armadillo]

93. Ding ding ding ding!

6.Teachers are paid as much as physicians and lawyers.

Teaching is the only profession I know of in the US where people seriously argue that they should be paid low wages so that only the most dedicated take it up.

I've long advocated for at least a doubling of all teacher salaries, K-12.

[JVS]

108. The churches don't pay tax. In fact they have the legal right to levy taxes on members

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Lutheran_Church_of_Finland#Finance

"The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland and the Finnish Orthodox Church are each considered a national church of Finland, having the privilege to collect taxes from members through the state. In addition to membership tax, businesses also, to some extent, participate by a way of taxation in contributing financially to the church. Avoiding the church tax (generally 1%) has been one of the popular reasons cited for resignation from the church"

[AlphaCentauri]

113. well I think there should be a way to implement a progressive flat tax n/t

[progressivejazz]

48. Homogeneous population?

We shouldn't forget there are two national languages in Finland, Swedish and Finnish (hence the subtitles on the TV shows). Kids can go to a school that teaches in either of these, but are required to study the other one from the beginning of their education. And there is great friction between the "Swedish" Finns (who live mainly along the coasts) and the "Finnish" Finns (who live mainly inland) in many parts of the country. There is also a natural tension between people who live in cities and towns and those who live in the countryside. I don't see this as necessarily a homogeneous population. The education is pretty homogeneous, though; at an early age, kids are required to study a third language. But they sure get a good education. Years ago I met my wife who was educated in Finland through high school and considered an undistinguished student at best. I found she could contribute more to an intelligent, witty conversation with a group of theoretical physicists and engineers (me and my friends) in English, her fourth language, which she had not completely mastered yet, than any American girl I had dated.

One of the things hindering an improvement in American education is the feeling of so many of us that we received a perfectly good education back in our day. This simply is not true; at least of me and the few people I've tested. There was no "golden age" to which we should strive to return. If we were so well educated back in the old days, why was I the first person to point out that Finland is bilingual? My reason for knowing is that I married a Finn, not that I remembered it from school. Care to test whether you were really educated in American schools? Try this arithmetic test--what is 3/4 minus 2/3? No tricks here, I'm just asking a simple question you learned the answer to back in about 6th grade. Don't knock today's kids and teachers; it was always bad.

My wife and her friends and family assure me that teaching is a respected profession in Finland and teachers know their subjects. We can't say this in this country. Thirty years ago I found myself teaching a graduate course for teachers who were assigned to teach physics the next semester. None was in the slightest prepared. One of my students was being reassigned from physical education. This would never happen in Finland. We must value real education and real educators in order to progress.

[LWolf]

49. "homogeneous" is a term quoted from the article.

It's true that the resistance to change hinders our progress. The most common phrase I've heard from parents for the last 2 decades is "we didn't learn it that way when I was in school." Second only to "we didn't have to learn that when I was in school."

It's also certainly true that teaching is not a respected profession in this country. I know my subjects. I'm "highly qualified." That doesn't impact student learning as much as it should. I know what works, and the way our schools and classrooms are structured is in opposition to the way learning happens best. I can only work with what I'm given. If that includes a room so small that there is no room to walk when all the students are seated, and so many students crammed together in the room that I cannot meet with them often enough one-on-one or in small groups during a class period to really connect with them and take them beyond the current mandated "direct instruction," then what I know doesn't really matter. I can't use most of it anyway.

[progressivejazz]

50. I simply disagree with the term; but we agree with each other

If we really valued education and educators, highly qualified teachers like you wouldn't face the impossibilities you do. Instead we insult both education and educators because what we really value is a diploma and, in the end, the almighty dollar. I don't know how to fix this without a basic change in American attitudes. Meanwhile, I salute you for your efforts.

[LWolf]

55. Thank you.

We do agree, and on this, too: I don't know how to fix it without a change in American attitudes. The burnout, the frustration, on the part of the teaching profession brings another problem looming: just where will you find all the teachers to do the job, when you drive them away, or can't entice them into the profession any longer?

[ben_meyers]

54. Compared to Minneapolis, it is Homogeneous

The Minneapolis Public Schools has a highly diverse student population with more than 90 languages spoken in homes. The district has more than 36,370 students in 45 elementary schools, seven middle schools, seven high schools, and a mix of 40 special education, alternative, and charter schools.

I don't know how they teach in that environment as well as they do.

http://www.mmep.net/MMEP_Partner_Institutions.html

[treestar]

76. Just because they speak the languages in the homes doesn't mean

they don't speak English.

They are speaking two languages, not one.

Only in the US does one hear of comments like this. It's bad that they speak another language?

[LWolf]

97. It's great to be multilingual.

That's not the issue. Not many of our students who speak another language in the home are actually fluent in English. They have some conversational english, but not academic proficiency. BICS vs CALPS. That creates obstacles to academic success.

http://www.iteachilearn.com/cummins/bicscalp.html

Worse, with the right-wing push for "English Only," in states and districts that have adopted such policies, many of the students are not fluent in either of their languages. Their home language is suppressed when they start kindergarten to "immerse" them in English, and they end up fluent in neither.

While the law says that we are to send home all information in children's home languages, and to get interpreters to conference with parents, that's not reality. I can send every letter or home-communication off to a translator, but it takes weeks, and by the time I get it back, whatever the letter was discussing has probably already occurred. IF I can find a translator that speaks the language. Districts generally don't have 90 different translators to cover 90 different home languages; just some for the most prevalent languages. I can request a translator if I need to make a phone call; I have to do that weeks in advance, as well, which means that the regular practice of picking up a phone to talk to a parent when I have a concern doesn't happen for parents who don't speak English. It's one thing to pick up the phone and make a call. It's another to schedule a phone conference weeks in advance, not even knowing if anyone will be home to answer the phone.

Personally, I think that a second language ought to be required curriculum in U.S. elementary schools. A multi-lingual population is a strength, not a weakness. That doesn't negate the issue with trying to teach a classroom full of kids that don't speak, or are not academically fluent in, the language of instruction.

[midnight armadillo]

58. it was a quickie post

"Largely homogeneous" = easier to teach. Diversity is great, but presents more challenge in the classroom. That's just reality.

One of the greatest predictors of student achievement in school has nothing to do with the schools, or the teachers, themselves. It's parent ed level and socio-economic status. With fewer disparities in SES, Finnish schools are going to have a higher level of achievement.

That is very true, and quite simlpy the US as a whole would never do as well for that very reason. Diversity has other benefits, of course.

Never, ever however do you hear someone in the US state: "Let's radically improve education - let's start by ending poverty"

[LWolf]

59. Unless you are listening to me, lol.

Then you've heard it said repeatedly for many years. ;)

:hi:

[orleans]

68. you're referencing the article which says the drop-out rate is about 25% in the u.s.

in chicago in 2000 the number was 49%

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-dropout_25feb25,1,5192379.story

"the number of students who did not finish high school hit a high in 2000, when 49 percent of freshmen who started their studies in 1995 did not graduate.

"Since then, the number of students who have dropped out has been edging lower. In 2006, that figure dropped to a seven-year low when 44 percent of the 31,600 9th graders who began high school in 2001 failed to graduate."

[LWolf]

70. Yes.

What's your point? That dropout rates are higher nation wide than the article mentions, or higher nationally?

A higher dropout rate doesn't negate my point, it supports it. We have higher dropout rates than Finnish schools because we put students in a one-size-fits all system, and when it doesn't fit, they drop out.

[orleans]

71. yes, i guess my point was that in a lot of places (chicago for example)

things are far worse than the article allows

and yes, i know it goes to prove your point even further. that was my intent. sorry if i was unclear.

[LWolf]

75. That's true in so many areas.

Our economy is in worse shape than it appears to be.

So is our system of public education. Not because educators aren't passionate about serving students, but because the underlying agenda of top down legislative mandates to destroy, then privatize, has made great progress.

[sandnsea]

111. They do in Oregon, it's a disaster

In 8th grade the students are put on a college track where they automatically get into AP classes, or not. If you didn't grow up in the town or have a parent who is a teacher, getting into the AP classes is a nightmare. If you don't get AP classes, you are not going to do well in college. Even community college requires some basic classes to get just about any kind of certificate. That is NOT a solution. Oregon's students have scored lower and lower since they put that policy in place back in the 80's. It's called "school to work". I'm sure you've heard of it, if you stop and think about it for a minute.

[AP]

19. Sounds like treating everyone the same makes a big difference

Interesting that the Finland had the smallest gap between best and worst schools and that they did the best overall.

They don't separate the good from the bad students and give one set a good education and the other a bad education (except in the last three years, when some go to vocational and others go to high school based on grades) and all schools get the same level of funding.

Some might say that it's better to have your small group of the best be better than their best. But that doesn't seem like a smart way to build a society. Who wants to have a huge group doing poorly just so that a few can do really well? And it's no surprise that Finland has one of the highest standards of living in the world by ensuring that everyone does well.

[Recursion]

21. Linus Torvalds n/t

[SoCalDem]

23. watch this, too..

http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.asp?showID=14083

Revelle Forum: John Kao
(#14083; 56 minutes; 2/11/2008)
Author, doctor and business strategist John Kao outlines the extraordinary economic challenges facing the U.S. and offers potential solutions as he highlights his new book, “Innovation Nation: How America is Losing its Innovation Edge, Why It Matters, and How We Can Get It Back.”
3/2/2008, 5:00 PM pacific time zone
3/2/2008, 8:00 PM pacific time zone



http://www.johnkao.com/


Innovation: Finland
http://www.johnkao.com/video3.html
Many other great online programs

[Jennicut]

24. In my early childhood education classes, I have learned that creativity is a problem

Creativity leads to new solutions, innovations, and increased intelligence. However, creativity peaks at age 4 1/2 in the United States. Once children enter first grade, it drops dramatically. Children sit at desks all day long and are forced to memorize facts and words. There is less art, p.e., and recess than ever before. There is little experimentation allowed. NCLB has made it worse as children have one goal for the teachers: passing tests. Tests do not make someone smart, they simply measure memorization of the material, not true understanding. Also, children who don't make the grade have self esteem that plummets and extra pressure as they are holding the class back now instead of getting simply getting extra help like in the past. Things really need to change.

[Gimli]

35. Is our children learning?

When the leader of your country is moron...

I agree with what you say about school. I have seen bright eyed kids turn into zombies after just a few years in our school system.

[annabanana]

98. Our system is geared to create workers & consumers. .. . not curious seekers!. . .n/t

[BluePatriot]

25. Omega-3's!

(who knows. Actually I do wonder how much fish is in their diet, etc)

[Reader Rabbit]

26. Captioned TV plays a *big* role.

A friend of mine wrote her MA thesis on the benefits of reading aloud to children shared reading, and the Finns were one of her big arguments. Nearly all TV is close-captioned in Finland, so kids who watch TV are engaging their brains in reading even as they watch. In addition, reading aloud to children is apparently very big in Finnish culture. The result is that the kids' brains develop a more complex set of neural pathways than kids who watch TV without captioning, or kids who are not read to by adults.

[JBoy]

40. Wow, that's an interesting thought!

Imagine if American kids had to read the words on TV to figure out what was going on. That could be a lot of reading every day!

Reminds me of a story I read that got overweight kids to exercise by having their video games powered by an exercise bike.

[Infidel69]

29. Hmmm...

"Despite the apparent simplicity of Finnish education, it would be tough to replicate in the U.S."

For me this is one of the most depressing things about this article.
Why would it be so tough?
Oh, I guess I should continue reading..

"...There are fewer disparities in education and income levels among Finns."

Oh yeah, well I guess there is no way to fix that here in the U.S., right?

"Finland separates students for the last three years of high school based on grades; 53% go to high school and the rest enter vocational school."

One of those inconvenient truths and we know how good we are at accepting those.

"Another difference is financial. Each school year, the U.S. spends an average of $8,700 per student, while the Finns spend $7,500. Finland's high-tax government provides roughly equal per-pupil funding, unlike the disparities between Beverly Hills public schools, for example, and schools in poorer districts."

Uh oh, did you say high tax government. We Amuricans just can't go for that. Notice that the WSJ doesn't go into the nature of the tax system. They don't say whether or not it is a progressive tax. They don't say whether big business or large corporations bear the main tax burden. They just say that it a tax , oops I mean a high tax system and automatically expect you to assume that ANY tax system (let alone a HIGH tax system) is bad, bad.

..Finnish students have little angstata -- or teen angst -- about getting into the best university, and no worries about paying for it. College is free. "

Free college? What are these people? Communists? We can't go around letting every gifted, intelligent kid who qualifies for college academically actually go to college. Why if we did that we might actually become a country that has....(wait for it)...fewer disparities in education and income levels.

Imagine that.

[Darth_Kitten]

31. They need to be smart in order to know how to pronounce their own names.

:D

[leftofthedial]

36. what? no ten commandments?

no creationism?

you want good students? invest in good teachers.

[The Backlash Cometh]

37. Maybe it's because our country pays too much attention to differences?

And that distracts the kids?

[ben_meyers]

43. Maybe there aren't many differences in Finland

The total population of 5 million is 97% Finnish and 84% Lutheran.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. True.

But I was referring to the emphasis on gifted programs vs regular programs or any number of ways we try to separate people.

[ben_meyers]

52. When I lived in Minnesota

The smaller, sometimes 1 High School, districts "up on the range" always outperformed the schools in the more diverse Twin Cities. Many iron range towns were largely single ethnic groups of Slavs, Swedes, G Germans and Finns. Most were Lutherans or Catholics. These towns and districts were many times economically challenged due to the decline of the iron mining industry, yet they still were academically superior. That is not to imply that life is idyllic there, far from it. High unemployment, huge welfare rolls and many other social problems do exist.

BTW, much of Bob Dylan's (born Robert Zimmerman) early work was influenced by his growing up Jewish in the Iron Range communities of Hibbing and Duluth.

[devilgrrl]

39. Perhaps the Finns aren't as obsessed about "fitting in" and being "COOL"

Did that ever cross anyone's mind?

[AlphaCentauri]

61. they don't have disney chanel either n/t

[JVS]

106. oh yeah?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPnGPIMUnus

[libbygurl]

45. I posted a related article here: (just FYI)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x341611

[DS1]

47. Kids schedules here seem to be so crammed, they don't have time to actually absorb anything

they're being taught.

[misanthrope]

53. Their parents**nm

**

[LeftishBrit]

56. I think one key is more individualized teaching for *all* children - not just a select few

Scandinavian schools in general tend to be smaller and cater more to individual needs.

Also less testing which means more time for real teaching; more respect for the teaching profession; children not being forced into formal education till they're ready.

And more social equality, meaning less poverty. Poverty is one of the biggest stumbling-blocks to progress in school. As a related factor, the social safety net and health spending - and perhaps the diet - mean that physical health is better in Finland than in most other countries. It is also one of the top countries in league tables of life expectancy, infant survival, etc. On the whole, healthier children make better academic progress.

[tomreedtoon]

57. "Let kids be kids" - in other words, destructive little bastards?

If "let kids be kids" was the secret, we would do better teaching our kids in Chuck E. Cheese's.

[AlphaCentauri]

62. They may prefer to play with marbles, sticks, dirt, clay, dice ...

create their own games instead of getting everything boxed with instructions

[Lydia Leftcoast]

78. Letting kids be kids by not forcing them to read and do worksheets in kindergarten

When my mom learned to be a kindergarten teacher in the 1940s, they were told that the purpose of kindergarten was to help the children to transition from home to school and to instill in them a DESIRE AND READINESS TO LEARN. For that reason, the teacher was supposed to read to the children a lot, showing them the words and pictures, to give them an idea of how stories are structured and to take them out of their everyday lives. They also were supposed to do a lot of music and drawing, which were not only worthwhile pursuits in themselves, but in the case of music, trained the kids to hear differences in sounds, and in the case of drawing, trained the kids how to handle pencils and crayons. They learned about holidays by hearing and acting out stories. When it was fall, they'd go out on walks and see how many kinds of leaves they could gather. There was lots of experiential learning like that, and plenty of time for free play that encouraged role-playing.

In the last month they were supposed to learn how to print their own names.

That was the extent of academic work in the traditional kindergarten.

This whole idea of starting children on reading and writing at age five is not supported by research. The Brits went through a period (ca. 1960s) when they thought it might be a good idea to teach children to read at age five, so they tried it out for a few years in various schools. The results were mixed: some children really took to reading at age five, but there were more children who just weren't ready and had high levels of anxiety about it. Furthermore, when the children who'd started at five and the children who started at six were compared year by year, it was found that any advantage the early learners had disappeared soon and was completely gone by age ten.

I was taught to read at five. The circumstances were this: my parents had both been trained as elementary school teachers in their past lives, and I was constantly asking them what every sign said. Then I had a series of illnesses, and there was a long period when I couldn't go to school and wasn't supposed to run around outside. My parents couldn't entertain me all the time: my dad had to work, and my mom had to take care of two younger children. They decided that I would have something to do if they could teach me to read.

However, I was clearly eager to read.

When I tutored street kids, I was surprised to find out, that contrary to what the right-wingers say, these teens had no trouble sounding out words. They could sound out just about everything I gave them. Where they fell apart was in understanding what they read.

For example, take the paragraph that starts with "I was taught to read at age five." These street kids would not have been able to answer the following questions about it:

1. How old was the writer when she learned to read?
2. What training had her parents received?
3. Why couldn't she go to school or play outside?

It was really sad. My students of Japanese could answer questions about simple content (in Japanese) better than these kids could answer questions about a paragraph in English.

I wonder whether this type of blindness was the result of kids, most of whom were from highly dysfunctional families, being drilled in phonics before they understood how stories and sentences are structured. I'd think that kids from households where the parents were alcoholic, drug addicted, mentally ill, criminal, or any combination of the above, would have to be explicitly taught things that other children pick up naturally from interacting with stable, emotionally healthy parents.

[Zhade]

63. Plus, they don't let mythological religious bullshit interfere in education.

NT!

[Joe Chi Minh]

86. That's right, come back swinging! I like your style (if not your substance)!

[spoony]

103. Is there nothing a bitter man cannot blame on religion?

Anywhere in the world? The single loop in your brain rivals the fundiest of fundies.

[knitter4democracy]

73. They have more of a social safety net than we do.

I've been to Helskinki, and it's gorgeous. The streets are so clean you could practically eat off of them. No litter, no trash, and people were amazingly nice and polite. Great city.

They have national health care, national programs for the poor, and a strong sense of community. Their kids come into school without having to worry about half of what our kids do. It makes a difference.

[Joe Chi Minh]

88. It's difficult to concentrate if you live in a stressed out society, and your

home is affected.

[otohara]

77. Same Reason Finns Are The Happiest

They feel safe, secure are all very knowledgeable because of their amazing systems for health, education and well being. They don't mind paying high taxes for all the benefits.

[Lorien]

81. That's actually the Danes, but Finns are in the top five for the

same reasons.

[KT2000]

79. I would bet

that they are more concerned and more careful about exposing children and fetuses to brain damaging chemicals such as organophosphate pesticides. Finland also does high quality research on environmental pollution and health effects.

In the US, we think nothing of giving our children a lifetime of brain damage, such as learning disabilities, for high corporate returns. We are also awash in censored and controlled environmental health studies that favor corporations.

[Lorien]

80. As usual, the RW press blames our inability to do the same on minorities:

"Despite the apparent simplicity of Finnish education, it would be tough to replicate in the U.S. With a largely homogeneous population, teachers have few students who don't speak Finnish. In the U.S., about 8% of students are learning English, according to the Education Department. There are fewer disparities in education and income levels among Finns. Finland separates students for the last three years of high school based on grades; 53% go to high school and the rest enter vocational school. (All 15-year-old students took the PISA test.) Finland has a high-school dropout rate of about 4% -- or 10% at vocational schools -- compared with roughly 25% in the U.S., according to their respective education departments."


I saw a piece on 20/20 a month or so ago about the happiest nations on earth. Denmark topped the list, and the narrator stated that even though Denmark is a "nanny state" and very liberal, they have a nearly all white/ all Danish speaking population. Now, the narrator DIDN'T say how this contributes to their "happiness" or if it were any factor at all, but what was left unspoken was clear; the reporter believes that if the US were all white and English speaking we, too, would all be content. :crazy:

[midnight armadillo]

95. It's actually more about community

I saw a piece on 20/20 a month or so ago about the happiest nations on earth. Denmark topped the list, and the narrator stated that even though Denmark is a "nanny state" and very liberal, they have a nearly all white/ all Danish speaking population. Now, the narrator DIDN'T say how this contributes to their "happiness" or if it were any factor at all, but what was left unspoken was clear; the reporter believes that if the US were all white and English speaking we, too, would all be content. :crazy:

Healthy communities and strong family ties have been identified as key factors in happiness. Iceland is at the top of that list too - cold, dark climate and all, for the same reasons as Denmark. Here in the US where we've annihilated our social institutions (see the book "Bowling Alone") and overstressed our families due to overwork and underpay we've made ourselves pretty miserable.

[Lorien]

102. I entirely agree. But healthy communities CAN include all races and

ethnic backgrounds. I grew up near Ohio State University, where roughly 28 countries routinely sent their college aged students to attend the agricultural program there. It was a real melting pot with a very strong sense of community back in the 1970s. Today the factors you listed above, as well as stress from debt (mostly student and medical) and entertainment distractions have had a negative impact on the social network there, just as they have everywhere else.

I'll have to check out the title you mentioned. Does it suggest ways in which the individual can overcome the problem?

[burrowowl]

83. And their parents can pay more attention to them

since they don't have to worry about health care and poverty.
I am constantly amazed at the number of US teenagers on the streets.

[BlooInBloo]

87. Fins like being smart. Americans like being stupd. Next question?

EDIT: It also helps to have teachers who aren't idiots, a conducive environment, etc.

[Mass]

89. No real surprise. Parents attitude and inadapted curriculum in the US.

I live in a highly educated, high revenue town next to Cambridge, where many college teachers, and high-income people live (there are few low income people there, and low income is not the issue).

Last parent teacher night for 8th grade was a perfect example of the problem. We have three types of parents: white, 6 figure incomes American parents, expatriate European and Asian parents who are either studying or teaching at Harvard or MIT or working as executive for their companies.

As there was a lot of parents waiting, I was able to hear the questions asked by the parents:
= US parents wanted to be sure that their kids did not have too much work, just enough to enter an Ivy league school,
= European parents wanted to be sure their kids were challenged enough that they can really learn.
= Asian parents wanted to be sure their kids were challenged to their limits.

Compared to every European school I have known, our school, which is in one of the most demanding curriculum in the States and is one of the best in the States, is about 2 grades lower in Maths and Sciences, and continues to believe that kids will learn grammar, sentence structure, and spelling just by chance. My 8th grader has been spending a week watching 12 Angry Men and learning about how trials happen. Not exactly sure how it relates to Language Arts...

So, it does not surprise me that most European countries perform better than the US. The curriculum is simply not rigorous enough.

[rolleitreks]

90. Aryan genes. Just kidding. n/t

[Javaman]

99. The Finnish whatever the begin? nt

[KansDem]

100. Wow!!! Canada is No. 3!

Isn't that where they have that socialized medicine?

[senaca]

101. Surely we could try replicate teaching methods in math.

Just once it would be nice to know how these top countries are teaching math. For instance: when and how do they teach algebra, geometry, calculus on average. Do they integrate subjects such as math, science and english - in other words do they complement each other in content? When do they introduce calculators and what do they require their students to know by memorization?
Why can't we replicate teaching skills as the article suggests? It doesn't make sense to me. Isn't one of the basic tenants of science and math that something has to be replicated to be proven? These are not subjective subjects. Surely we could replicate methodology and acquire better results then what we are doing. It seems that we keep recycling methodology like "new math" that does not work in the main. I wish as a parent articles like this would be more specific on what is be taught when and how it's being taught.

[dbmk]

107. Scandinavian input

Hi! Dane here. Happiest person in the world (apparently). :party:

A quick two cents on the matter:

Most of all I attribute the fact that we are happy and score so well in these tests to fact that we have minimum wages that would make american business owners choke. Healthcare for all. Social benefits for those not so fortunate.
And have had it for a long time. We also have quite a bit higher taxes. Our gas prices would make you guys drop dead(ok, maybe not so much anymore :) ). Our car prices would though. But most of all the minimum wages.

It means that those having a job have a much better shot at financial stability and those that don't can get the help they need to stay afloat with some dignity.

And that kind of stability gives parents room to be there for their kids and provide an environment that promotes learning. An environment where kids are not held back because their parents have to worry about paying for college if they have a smart kid. All I paid for school ever, was books in college. And the monthly check for going to school helped with that and then some.

Sure, we still drop some one the floor, and not all kids feels this benefit. But as a whole the system works. Even if I might have described it a bit rosy red up above.
But a car mechanic can become a car mechanic if he wants and not have to worry whether his choice of work limits his kids options academically.
That particular point might have a lot to do with where all that happiness comes from.

To some degree it probably also helps being a smaller country. We learn other languages, simply because we as a nation would be dead in the water if our kids didn't have at least english as a second language. We have a bigger window to the world, because there simply isn't enough to fill the daily papers or tv-news with what goes on inside the borders alone.

Is it perfect? No, def. not. We still tackle problems like xenophobia and racism, lack of funding for whatever the public feels its owed for the money they pay.

But I say you guys need to try it out. The moment you can sell to the american public, the 67% tax on your top earned dollar, like I pay atm. And pay with a smile. (not everyone here does, but I do.)

Edit: This might be a question of which came first, the hen or the egg, but the stories we hear of american school life in terms of hazing and the willingness and eagerness to place people in groups, like jocks, geeks and whatever cliques - always leaves us a bit dumbfounded(I admit it might be a bit one dimensional, but stuff like Columbine and other incidents like it, made me interested - and I was a bit shocked at what I read). It might have something to do with schools and extracurricular activities being almost completely separate here. And there is no such thing as prom queens and kings.
Sure there are still cool kids and not cool kids and cliques - there always will be where people congregate. But our schools are not structured to promote this or put focus on it, by making you the school quarterback or the head chearleader - or having a prom where they celebrate any individuals. My classmates could basically care less - or at least had little way of knowing - if I was a good or bad footballer. They just knew I played football after school at the local club.
My teachers definately cared less.
Having schools be about teaching and nothing else might not be a bad idea. But I think 67% tax is more likely in your case. :)

[riverdeep]

109. Interesting input.

Looking out for the lower classes will never happen here, to the degree that it does there. We'd rather let a child remain poor, sell drugs, get into crime, and then spend the money to execute him rather than educate him in the first place. Also, culture has something to do with it. We as a culture don't value education except in a pragmatic way, i.e. getting a job. Among the poor, education is even less valued, being a rapper is seen as a viable career path.

[Hannah Bell]

104. remember....

when japanese kids were supposedly scoring best on those tests?

i'm willing to bet the causes have more to do with more general sociological/economic factors than any specific to education per se.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

112. Japan is another country where

1. Teachers are respected and highly paid. Public school teaching is the highest-paying job that a new college graduate can get.

2. Parents are eager to see their children educated. They may be TOO eager in some cases, but there's none of this, "You're making my child work too hard" nonsense" or "My child doesn't need to learn all that stuff" attitude.

3. There's a belief in educational equality. The New York Times once wrote a snide article about Japan maintaining small schools that would have been consolidated in the U.S., but it's part of the policy of giving rural kids the same opportunities as city kids. Everyone follows the same curriculum, and there's no ability grouping till high school, when students are assigned to a specific high school in their area depending on the results of an exam taken in ninth grade.

[klyon]

105. fish

ask Wodehouse's Jeeves. it's fish.