Rev. Hagee is WRITING our foreign policy. .

[annabanana]

I am rewatching "God's Christian Warriors" that Christiane Amanpour did last August. I am struck by how much of Hagee's dogma has worked it's way into America's foreign policy, and how profoundly destructive it is to the prospects of Peace anywhere... anytime soon.

[ixion]

1. I get flamed a great deal for being adamant that chruches stay out of politics

but this is precisely why I advocate that premise.

[annabanana]

2. I'm assuming that you don't get flamed much HERE for that...

Hagees "end times" theology and the place of Isreal in that scenario creeps me out in so many many ways

[ixion]

6. yep, right here at DU...pretty amazing, huh?

I've been in debates with people lasting days and calling me all sorts of names for advocating this point.

[bryant69]

3. You do? Here at DU?

I have to say that I haven't seen that too regularly. Seems more the opposite.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ixion]

8. Yep, here at DU

whenever I bring the subject up, I catch the wrath of a group of folks who claim I'm trying to curtail their freedom of speech.

[bryant69]

11. Are you trying to curtail freedom of speech? n/t

[ixion]

13. of course not...individuals have Freedom of Speech

churches do not, necessarily. My position is simply that if they want to act as a lobbying organization that they should pay taxes.

[bryant69]

16. Oh- i can sort of see that; although where to actually draw the line

would be difficult.

Bryant

[murielm99]

5. There are a lot of flames here lately.

The asshattery is out of hand.

If someone is going to flame you for being adamant that we follow the law, ignore them.

[gratuitous]

7. What does that mean, "stay out of politics"?

Our little congregation just put together over a thousand soup packets to feed low income people in our end of the county. It's as much a political statement as anything we do all year. Should we let our friends and neighbors go hungry to suit your sensibilities? Are you willing to step up and do what we're doing, or are you satisfied with sitting back and complaining about churches meddling in the political realm?

[ixion]

9. feeding, clothing, sheltering the poor and hungry? that's not really political...

preaching politics at the pulpit is political. There's a fine line, in any case.

[gratuitous]

12. Maybe you could draw up a list

We get confused pretty easily; but if you don't think feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and housing the homeless doesn't have a political component to it, I'd say you should get out a lot more often.

[ixion]

14. yep... that is exactly the flippant response I've been getting

thanks for proving my point.

If you believe your church is doing something political, then your church should lose its tax exempt status.

[gratuitous]

17. What's "flippant"?

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means, because I'm quite serious. If there wasn't a political component to feeding the hungry (for example), I should think the hungry would be fed. After all, if there's nothing political to it and everyone agrees that it should be done then it apparently should have been done. Or is your assertion that there are no hungry anywhere?

In which case, I again urge you to get out more often.

By the way, I said right up front that my congregation's feeding of the hungry was a political act. You're the one trying to claim either that it's not a political act or that there are no hungry.

[ixion]

18. well, don't say I didn't try to give you the benefit of the doubt... if your church is political

then it is effectively a lobbying organization, and should pay taxes along with everyone else. Then you can do whatever you like.

Flippant is telling me to get out more often when you don't even know me. That is to say: presumptuous and foolish.

[gratuitous]

20. Well, which is it, according to you?

Is feeding the hungry not a political act or do you think there are no hungry in the United States?

And though this will probably give you the vapors, our congregation will be participating in what we hope will be a very big anti-war demonstration on March 15. We'll carry our church banner and everything. Hopefully, going to war or not going to war won't be considered a political act in your eyes.

Perhaps you could provide some guidance on when it’s all right to take any kind of political stance. A lot of mine are grounded in my religious beliefs, like feeding the hungry, not using violence as a tool of foreign policy, moving toward a more equitable tax system, providing education and health care, and others. Should I give up any political beliefs that have a religious component? Or should I abandon the political realm because it is inextricably bound up with my religious beliefs? Because if you’re going to jettison all support for progressive causes that has the taint of religion, then I wish you’d work a lot harder for my goals since I can’t work for them myself.

[ixion]

21. quietly and graciously feeding the hungry is not inandof itself a political act

taking that stance loudly into the public forum is, however. See the difference? In one case you're doing some real good. In the other case, you're acting as a lobbying organization. And for good or for ill that simply cannot be, because it leads to churches becoming too entwined in politics.

But you say: "gee, we're marching against the war, etc" Yet too often it goes the other way. The inquisition, the crusades, prohibition, the so-called war on drugs, these are all grotesque things that church involvement has caused. So for good or for ill, churches should remain apolitical.

[annabanana]

15. see reply #10 (not that hard). . . . .n/t

[atreides1]

10. Definition

"stay out of politics"= does not mean to stop feeding the hungry, it means that no religious organization should advocate for a particular candidate running for office.

So please continue to do the good works of helping those in need, just don't have your minister advise the congregation on who to vote for in the elections.

[LibertyLover]

4. Hagee and Dobson

practically run this country's foreign and domestic agenda. It's disgusting.

[Irishonly]

19. This Administration Has Tried To Erase The Line

Churches should not be involved in politics. Helping the homeless, feeding the hungry and helping the poor isn't political IMHO. It's behaving more Christ like in our daily lives. I do not want my pastor to tell me how to vote even though we probably vote almost identical. I don't want a pamphlet in my church bulletin to tell me who is Christian and who isn't. Jimmy Carter was probably one of our most Christian presidents and he managed to keep religion out of politics. The doofus in the WH now played all of the evangelical leaders. He kept promising money and it never really happened. When is doubt remember Christ said to render to Ceaser what is Ceasers......

[Swamp Rat]

22. And our domestic policy.

[and-justice-for-all]

23. Hagee's fat ass has no right to have that kind of access...

and that goes for Robertson, Dobson and the Jim Jones's of the religious kultist world. I do not think that when the Constiution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.." it is pretty clear that having Hagee and the like on the Hill is clearly unconctitutional.