For Fucks Sake People SPITZER Can Be Both GUILTY AND SET UP By Bushco. DOJ

[Beetwasher]

They are not mutually exclusive. Good grief. Is it so hard to believe that Bush's DOJ is targeting prominent Democrats? Holy crap, some of you are fucking naive, even after all we've seen.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Exactly. nt

[selador]

2. hard to believe no?

but is there any EVIDENCE of it?

no.

and i believe in evidence, not black helicopter spec'ing

[Beetwasher]

3. WRONG

No evidence yet, but certainlsy suspicious activitiy by the DOJ.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/11/51123/3435/851/474082

[selador]

17. wrong right back at ya

the article is pretty poorly written and the author has a poor understanding of how financial investigations work

people who NEED to find a black helicopter will find it

that's how it works

[Beetwasher]

31. pathetic

I post a link with salient points and you say "nyah nyah". :eyes:

[selador]

34. we can post links all day long

people are crying out for something to hold on to , to save their saviour spitzer.

this is a garden variety financial investigation, no different from scores of others i've seen

again, i read the article, and it was much of what i suspected

here's a hint: ANY politician, given that kind of financial anamolies would have raised significant suspicion

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[selador]

42. the only like i need ot post

is the friggin PC cert.

have you read it?

probably not, i guess

do you understand why it is difficult to prove a NEGATIVE

you are asking me to prove it wasn't a conspiracy

i can only point to evidence it isn't

proving a negative is your request

[Beetwasher]

44. Bullshit

post links showing this type of investigation is routine as you say.

[selador]

47. i will post the PC cert

it's a standard investigation

how many financial investigations have you done? i've been involved in scores (many years of detective work)

here's a link, since you obviously don't understand how they work

http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=107488,00.html

[Beetwasher]

63. "i've been involved in scores (many years of detective work)" LOL!

Sure, sure. Whatever you say. I'm the Queen of England. :rofl:

[BadgerLaw2010]

64. His information is actually correct, so I am inclined to believe him over you.

[Beetwasher]

66. What Info?

WTF are you talking about? He made assertions that he can't back up.

[Leopolds Ghost]

107. BS. What do you think keeps these women's mouths shut? Mafia only releases names its paid to release

In connection with blackmail by US clandestine services or Mafia-aligned politicians.

This financial "investigation" was either unrelated to Spitzer or targeted
(among the dozens of other high-class Mafia escort services that service
the Wall Street crony elite) because of advance dirt on a specific client
(not any of the others) they wanted to bring down.

No confession on Client 9 specifically -- no further wiretaps of Client 9.

These Heidi Fleiss types are paid to be discreet.

Except when someone refuses an overture of blackmail by someone high up in the criminal food chain.

[Truth2Tell]

138. selador

has been invoking "black helicopters" in every thread on DU where anyone remotely suggests that Bushco could have set Spitzer up. Usually first to post. Quite the crusade for someone with 6 days on DU under their belt.

[Leopolds Ghost]

105. "their savior spitzer" --tying "financial anomalies" of an unrelated Mafia escort service to Spitzer

Interesting. How long have you been in these parts, sellador? If you'd been around longer you'd know that this sort of blackmail is not tolerated when applied to Republicans. Or pro-Wall Street Democrats.

[Leopolds Ghost]

104. "Financial investigations" of Wall St that a JUDGE says will cost Spitzer his job (unlike Vitter)

Because he is unpopular on Wall St. and his targets for prosecution
(corrupt Wall St. organized criminals) promised to tip the feds off
to his sexual mores.

News flash: Blackmail of a prosecutor (admitted in public) is a much worse offense than prostitution.

I don't see you complaining about how the other 100 high-profile clients of this clandestine sting operation should be fired.

[mojowork_n]

171. Actually, the black helicopter descended from the belly of the mother ship

...and landed on the White House lawn. (Borrowing your trope.)

I don't have time to scroll through the whole of this dKos length thread, to see if someone mentioned this, but something did break this afternoon. I saw it on MSNBC, or maybe CNN.

• The guy who ran the Emperor's Club was, himself, an IRS enforcement agent.
• That was the basis for the original investigation and wiretap, when whoever it was found the 5-digit money transfer, or whatever it was, that could have been evidence of "tax fraud."
  

[madokie]

6. Ask that question in a day or two

[Wednesdays]

99. If it even sees the light of day

Bet your bottom dollar that it'll be buried in a 2-paragraph article on page 64.

[grasswire]

9. welcome to DU

enjoy your stay.

[selador]

14. thx n/t

[L. Coyote]

49. Welcome to DU. Admirable perspective, "show me the evidence"

Let the evidence do the talking, I say too.

If a Dem gets caught violating the law, so be it.
If that Dem was a prosecutor, then a hypocrite is breaking the law too!

That said, this is POLITICS!

[selador]

52. yup

thanks

reminds me of the duke case. people LOVED the narative, so assumed guilt despite massive evidence they were being railroaded

here, people HATE the narrative , so assumed it's a nefarious conspiracy

same disfunction.

sometimes a chair is just a chair

[eridani]

165. Nope, but I'd say there is probable cause

Probable cause surely ought to inspire people to actually look for evidence.

[BurtWorm]

4. Set up by GOP, anyway.

I agree. His being a schmuck actually makes him the perfect target.

[Beetwasher]

8. He's A Fucking IDIOT

I'm so angry w/ him right now....

[Catherine Vincent]

22. I'm angry at him too.

:mad:

[0007]

32. Me too! Ya'd think he'd be smarter than this!

[L. Coyote]

53. I watched MSNBC and Faux. He is a guilty idiot until proven innocent, it sems!

The right-wing noise machine is in hyper-drive, the ultimate irony
given their near silence on Ney, Cunningham, Abramoff, Scalon, Vitter, Craig, Foley, et.al.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

103. With craig

there were tons of people here screaming that if the gop had any integrity they would boot his @$$..

Now with spritzer its all about 'fight to the last breath'...

This has been an ugly year and shown us *all* to be too partisan, and not principled enough//

[Critters2]

180. I guess I missed his denials of wrongdoing. nt

[mdmc]

5. he is been setting up people for many years (druggies, pimps)

Now his own tools caught him...

[Beetwasher]

16. Oh, Ok, So That Makes Political Targeting By The DOJ Ok Then

:eyes:

Pathetic.

[selador]

54. no

and as soon as there is evidence of political targeting let me know

fwiw, spitzer is a public figure. if anamolies are seen with him (or any similar personage) you can be darn tootin' that's gonna be scrutinized.

that aint political targeting

[Beetwasher]

65. Uh Huh

Because the Bush DOJ doesn't target political opponents. :eyes:

[selador]

87. again

ignore the evidence all you want.

just because bush sux doesn't mean EVERYTHING is his fault

this is spitzer's fault

and you have no evidence otherwise that this is otherwise

[Beetwasher]

88. Holy Crap Are You Thick

The evidence is him transferring several thousands of dollars i cash from his account. That's it. He did not transfer it to offshore shells.

I guess selective targeting by the DOJ of Dems doesn't bother you? Pathetic.

The evidence is flimsy at best.

[selador]

93. he transferred it

to shell companies

no, the fact that you have no EVIDENCE of selective targeting is what bothers me

but i understand with many (like you) , evidence doesn't matter

just rhetoric, bombast, and ignorance

[Beetwasher]

95. BULLSHIT, He Paid Cash To A Prostitute

He did not transfer it to a shell company.

[selador]

98. yes, he did

read the PC cert.
i'll summarize it for you. agents discovered movementsof money that were suspicious. further investigations revealed spitzer was makingf them into SHELL COMPANIES. further, investigation, and spitzer was caught in the prostitution thang.

hth

that's called evidence. you are unaware of the shell companies, yet you have an (apparently) uninformed opinion


here's a quote from the FBI bureau chief.

here's the link...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/03/10/DI2008031002001.html
"The IRS routinely looks at what it considers "suspicious" banking transactions and large, regular movements of money. In this case, when it was seen that large payments were moving from an account belonging to the Governor -- and going to what ended up being shell companies -- the agents notified the U.S attorney's office. Apparently they suspected it might be a case of political corruption. Little did they realize...
"

[Beetwasher]

109. Nope, that does not necessarily mean he transferred it directly

Read it again. "ended up....".

Seriously, you don't know a damn thing about what went down and there is only DOJ say so that these transactions were "suspicious". The cert proves nothing. There's a cert for Siegelman too. You're either naive or worse if you think it's not possible that DOJ is fully capable and willing to do political hit jobs these days. There's enough that stinks about this to be suspicious. If you're not its only because you're full of shit.

[selador]

112. right

its all the illuminati, the bush cabal, the masons, and the black helicopter squads that magicked spitzers money into shell accounts

sigh...

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[selador]

116. strawman

like i said, seigelman case is bogus , and there is no evidence this case is

arguing facts with you is like trying to explain evolution to a creationist. it's getting old

[Beetwasher]

119. Yes, YOUR strawman

your pathetic tactic of screeching about black helicopters is definitely old. I guess they were involved in Siegelmans case too. Siegelman is completely and totally relevant to this conversation as it shows how it is most certainly reasonable to be suspicious about DOJ targeting dens, jeenyus.

[TroglodyteScholar]

139. Calling someone "pathetic" in every post...

..does not make your position more valid.

What WOULD make your position more valid is any shred of EVIDENCE of DOJ wrongdoing, which you have completely failed to demonstrate.

"I distrust the Bush DOJ" is proof of precisely nothing.

On edit: Should I go ahead and call myself pathetic? Might save you some time.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TroglodyteScholar]

147. Take note, DUers: the above is what it looks like when someone has NOTHING worthwhile to say. n/t

[Beetwasher]

148. LOL! Oh, The Irony

The headline followed by the empty post.

You have yet to post a single thing in this thread besides attacks on me. :rofl:

[TroglodyteScholar]

150. You've yet to post anything but angry fluff...

...and calling you out on having NO EVIDENCE for your claims is NOT the same thing as attacking you.

You may FEEL attacked, but that's only because I'm right.

[Beetwasher]

151. What Claims???

I posted links w/ analysis and others have done the same. I have no "claims", Einstein. I'm suspicious of DOJ's motives for their pursuit of this supposed crime of money laundering. I never said DOJ definitely did anything wrong. Anyone who's not suspicious is naive or worse.

[TroglodyteScholar]

156. Your original post was not about suspicion.

Is it so hard to believe that Bush's DOJ is targeting prominent Democrats?

Obviously, the DOJ has been compromised by this administration. But your OP refers to BELIEF that the DOJ is targeting Dems. You can BELIEVE whatever you want, but I won't BELIEVE anything until I have a solid reason to.

If that makes me pathetic, so be it. But what does it make you?

[Beetwasher]

158. It's a Rhetorical Question

Highlighting the fact that it's a reasonable belief and therefore reasonable to be suspicious of this whole thing. Get it, Jeenyus?

"But your OP refers to BELIEF that the DOJ is targeting Dems. You can BELIEVE whatever you want, but I won't BELIEVE anything until I have a solid reason to."

Holy crap, what planet have you been on? I guess Gov. Siegelman is not in prison and the whole AG firing scandal never took place in your universe. :eyes: Maybe we'll find out when Bushco. voluntary hands over their illegal wiretapping documents. Then we'll get all the evidence we need. Right, jeenyus?

[mdmc]

129. people in power use power

why wouldn't they use their advantage?

Spitzer did when he was AG...

[Beetwasher]

131. that's a load of crap

tell it to Gov Siegelman. The DOJ is not for one political party's vendettas and its pathetic that you would think that's ok.

[kstewart33]

7. Watch you language, mister or ms.

Moderator delete this post. F-words aren't discourse. They're the crutches used by folks with very limited vocabulary and manners.

[Beetwasher]

11. Fuck fuck Fuckers fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck

fuck.

[kstewart33]

41. Wow. Classy.

[Beetwasher]

43. fuck?

Fucks fuckity.

[TroglodyteScholar]

140. Don't bother...

I've never seen a single post from beetwasher that wasn't unnecessarily combative. Anyway, you'll never talk sense into someone who is irrational with anger.

[Beetwasher]

143. LOL!

You sure do pay attention to me, got little crush do you honey?

[TroglodyteScholar]

152. No, no crush...

I just know that since I joined DU, you have been the ONLY DUer who consistently attacks people, calls names, and offers nothing constructive in the process.

You stuck out in my mind because you fancy yourself infallible, and everyone else "pathetic." Not, in my opinion, something for you to be proud of.

[Beetwasher]

154. Awww, How Sweet, I Stick In Your Mind

Like a honey bun. :smooch:

Sorry sugar, I hate to break it to you, but I'm taken.

[TroglodyteScholar]

157. Don't flatter yourself.

You're the most reactionary, closed-minded and insulting DUer I've encountered in several years here, and I don't go for people (for lack of a better word) who are incapable of self-control.

Speaking of crushes, you sure are rushing to respond to everything I say as soon as I say it. If I'm so pathetic, don't waste your time on me.

[Beetwasher]

159. You Feed My Ego

I find you adorable, sweet cheeks. You're my biggest fan! :loveya:

[jgraz]

60. Plus, you forgot the apostrophe in Fuck's Sake. How the fuck can someone do that??

:P

[madokie]

21. for real

I type like I talk and when it comes to talking about anything to do with this illegal cabal in power right now I find myself not having any other words to explain what the fuck I'm trying to say ;-) I just had to throw that in there

[L. Coyote]

56. F-words are also the tools of worms and trolls. DUers are not FUers!

Remember, any thread with an F-word will not show up on a Google search.

You demote an important item if you F-word it, making it less likely to be accessed by researchers, etc.!

DUers are not FUers! :rofl:

[jgraz]

58. Fuckin-A

[Throd]

62. How about "phuck"?

[redqueen]

90. Seriesly? This is HUGH!

ALERT! ALERT! So and so said a cuss word!

:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

114. nice post, Hitl...Potty Mouth!

nice post, Hitl...Potty Mouth! :evilgrin:

[uppityperson]

136. Funniest fucking reply in this whole fucking thread!

Edited to add the DU smiley :wtf:

[Occulus]

179. .

:wtf:

[rox63]

10. They originally went digging for dirt on Spitzer

And they just happened to stumble across the prostitution ring in the process. This is what they are doing with all their warrantless wiretapping, setting up their political opponents.

[Leopolds Ghost]

110. Try telling that to the mindless "warrantless wiretapping is no big deal" f^cks

None of whom are Democrats and none of whom are on DU, thank God.

[TroglodyteScholar]

145. Is there any evidence that there was no warrant?

Just because "warrentless wiretapping" rolls nicely off the tongue does NOT mean that all wiretapping is conducted without a warrant.

Are you assuming there was no warrant in this case? That's quite a serious assumption.

[Uncle Joe]

178. After what they've done to Seigleman and the firing of the District Attorneys

that wouldn't aggressively go after Democrats, after it came to light they started warrant less wiretapping soon after Bush came to power and before 9/11, instead of changing the law even with a Republican controlled Congress. I don't see how anyone can trust this Justice Dept. to do the right thing?

I'm not excusing Fitzgerald, he broke the law and furthermore prosecuted people for the same behavior he was doing on the sly, but I believe Bush's "Justice" Dept. would have no qualms with using warrant less wiretapping to go after political opponents.

Even if they eventually used a warrant, I can't help but believe warrant less wiretapping was very likely used to obtain the initial damning information. I hate being that cynical but nothing since 2000 has led me to feel otherwise.

[Junkdrawer]

12. It all seems to boil down to one question:

How many other like movements of a similar amount of cash receive the attention of the Justice Department?

And, if the answer to that is: Thousand and thousands of like transactions, but only a very few are investigated, then we can safely assume they knew the answers before the investigation began.

[iamthebandfanman]

13. very true

but that doesnt change the fact he did something illegal.


youre right tho, im sure someone unleashed the dogs on him once his name was brought up as possibly being involved... or hell, maybe they knew for a long time and just waited for the right moment ;)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. We tend to be...

A little overboard with the Manicheanism around here.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Bush forced Spitzer

to have sex with a prostitute?

Did he hold a gun to his head?

LOL

[Beetwasher]

38. Straman bs

I'm taLking about selective enforcement.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. No it's not a strawman

If Spitzer had kept his fly zipped, he wouldn't be all over the front page today, right?

Unless you can prove someone forced him to unzip and have sex with a prostitute, you can't accuse anyone of setting him up. He is the freakin governor! Of course he will get busted if he chooses to use a hooker and she gets busted. HELLO!?!?

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. If Spitzer had kept his fly zipped,

he wouldn't be all over the front page today, right?

Unless you can prove someone forced him to unzip and have sex with a prostitute, you can't accuse anyone of setting him up. He is the freakin governor! Of course he will get busted if he chooses to use a hooker and she gets busted. HELLO!?!?

[Beetwasher]

74. Still Strawman Bullshit

So that makes politically targeting by the DOJ ok?

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. He is a former prosecutor

He should have known he could get caught if he broke the law.

No excuses whatsoever.

The DOJ can target him all they want and the fact remains that if he had not chosen to sleep with a prostitute, he wouldn't be in trouble today. Period.

[Beetwasher]

79. Oh, Like Gov. Siegelman?

Really? Give me a fucking break. You don't know that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. I don't know that prostitution is illegal?

I don't know that Spitzer is a former prosecutor?

You give me a fucking break. Bottom line - HE BROKE THE FUCKING LAW. Just because Siegelman got screwed is no reason to excuse Spitzer's crime.

[Beetwasher]

91. Holy Crap Are You Dense

No one is saying he didn't do something wrong. I didn't say that. The question is, as you probably know but refuse to acknowledge, is WHY is DOJ involved and is this SELECTIVE enforcement because he's a DEM.

I guess the DOJ wouldn't do that, huh? Seriously, your strawman is pathetic.

[proud2BlibKansan]

127. His bank reported him - it's a law

Get off your conspiracy bandwagon. He is the governor and made large withdrawls from his bank. So the bank reported the transactions, as REQUIRED BY LAW. As I said upthread, if he was taking out money for a down payment on a car or another legitimate expense, nothing would have happened. Since he was doing something illegal, he got caught.

I am not the dense person in this discussion.

[Beetwasher]

146. "I am not the dense person in this discussion."

:rofl:

Keep telling yourself that. $5,000 withdrawals are not enough to trigger suspicion by DOJ.

Nahh, Bush's DOJ would never target Dems. That would never happen. :eyes:

[Leopolds Ghost]

111. Do you REALIZE HOW MANY POLITICIANS are clients of escort service? Why black books are kept secret??

They have BLACKMAIL VALUE, goddamnit!

You think none of the OTHER clients of this escort service
are important people?

Unnamed because (as a former Judge said on MSNBC) "Spitzer has many enemies on Wall St"???

What do you think is the relevance of continual on-air statements likre that? Hmmmmmm?

That's why the government uses Mafia-run escort services as honeytraps --
to amass dirt on the operation. It is how POLIZTICAL MACHINES ARE RUN.
You are naive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. And you are rude

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

57. Did you READ the OP? -nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. Yes of course I read it

That still doesn't exclude the FACT that he CHOSE to break the law. If he had not, would they have been able to target him?

[Beetwasher]

70. Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right

I'm not excsuing his behavior, but that doesn't excuse targeting of political opponents by the DOJ or make it OK.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. Once again.

If he had not broken the law, would he be in trouble today?

[Beetwasher]

80. Ask Gov. Siegelman.

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. All the more reason for Spitzer to keep his fly zipped

[Beetwasher]

83. Yeah, Gov. Siegelman Too

Because Bushco. DOJ would never target Dems and make up crimes to prosecute them for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. Did Bushco make up this crime Spitzer is accused of?

[Beetwasher]

92. Possibly

Since the crime is supposed money transfers (structuring), not soliciting prostitution. But you knew that right? :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

126. I suppose that's why Spitzer confessed

:eyes:

[Beetwasher]

132. Umm, he didn't confess to anything yet

You do realize that the crime is money laundering that he's supposedly being investigated for? Seriously, get a clue about the facts.

[proud2BlibKansan]

134. Why did he publicly apologize

You may want to study up on the facts before you continue to post.

[Beetwasher]

141. That's Not Confessing To The Underlying Crime

That's an apology. The crime he was supposedly being investigated for was money laundering, jeenyus and he didn't confess or apologize for that. He also has not been charged w/ anything yet or confessed. An apology is NOT a confession.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. That still doesn't exclude the FACT

that he CHOSE to break the law. If he had not, would they have been able to target him?

[skooooo]

19. Many people have trouble understanding...

...that just because one thing is true doesn't mean there can't be other simultaneous truths. It's called dichotic thinking, and I'm starting to think it's some kind of mental illness.

[madokie]

28. it is and its contagious because its what led us to where we are today

dichotic thinking

[The Traveler]

20. He is guilty AND

I agree it is quite likely that the exposure of his guilt is a result of selective investigation and enforcement policies implemented by a suborned DOJ. Proving that will be difficult without further information/evidence. In this context, I think we should focus our attention on the Siegelman (sp?) case in Alabama, where it appears much more likely that an innocent man has been prosecuted to achieve political ends.

[Jennicut]

23. If someone targets you then don't do aything illegal in the first place

At least Siegelman might have an appeal. Spitzer broke the law which does not matter to me as prostitution is not really a crime to me. What he did though was go after call girl rings and those involved in them. He deserves the same punishment know. Just like Rush Limpballs. Rush said people who do drugs need to be locked up and the key thrown away. But when it came to him it was suddenly a double standard. Anyways, its not a total set up if you do the crime to being with.

[blm]

24. Exactly what I said yesterday, Beet. Callgirls are EVERYWHERE, in EVERY CITY and

a federal prosecutor can choose GOP strongholds as easily as they can Dem ones. BUt what are the chances that Dallas and Houston would get the feds' attention the last 8 years?

[goodgd_yall]

123. Right on. n/t

[still_one]

25. spitzer was setup by spitzer. He called for the wire taps that were used against him

but more than that, in his position what was he doing screwing around?

He knew what the consequences could be

It is up to the people of New York to determine his fate

[Beetwasher]

40. strawman bs

this doesn't excuse selective enforcement. I'm not excusing ES's behavior but the pursuit of this case by DOJ is suspicious.

[still_one]

61. What is outrageous is what they did to Don Siegelman, that WAS a setup

and an innocent man is in prison because of it.

Not only should Siegelman be immediately released, but those responsible should be thrown in jail

As far as ES is concerned, if the charges are true, and he was caught in a wire tap, which he authorized himself, I cannot have to much pity, no mater what the circumstances

[Beetwasher]

78. No One Is Saying Pity Him

But if this is another politically motivated DOJ hitjob, like Siegelman, that should bother everyone.

Would this have happened to a Republican? Would the DOJ have been involved?

[still_one]

86. I don't really have any disagreement with what you are saying

In fact, it pisses me off big time that he would be so careless, and that is probably why I seem angry

When it was reported today that ES would resign, wall street cheered, and I have no doubt that their cheering had NOTHING to do with "justice" being served. These cheering scum are the same people who have put us into this dire economic situation

You have point, but it will be hard to argue it since it looks like there is a smoking gun, unlike Siegelman who is innocent

[BurtWorm]

96. But take BW's main point: Even if ES is guilty, that doesn't mean he wasn't targeted for takedown.

Maybe the GOP got lucky and the fish they were after jumped right into their boat.

[still_one]

97. I would not be surprised if that is what occurred, just not happy that he got himself

in this position

[BurtWorm]

100. Of course you're not. Who is? That's what makes him the perfect target.

The schmuck.

[ScreamingMeemie]

106. A DOJ that Spitzer fully supported in their wiretapping exploits.

He is a criminal. Nothing more. No conspiracy...unless he wanted to get caught and therefore set himself up.

[Beetwasher]

133. Bullshit Irrelevant Strawman

So that makes DOJ political hit jobs ok?

[ScreamingMeemie]

135. Only because it messes with the idea of a conspiracy. It is what it is

A federal investigation based upon an SAR that netted a whole lot more than it expected to. Spitzer didn't plan on that when he was running around with Pataki and happily filing those forms that made his discovery all the more simple. I don't think many will find that to be a strawman...and yet the man of straw gets pulled out every time when there is nothing defensible to say.

[Beetwasher]

149. "and yet the man of straw gets pulled out every time when there is nothing defensible to say."

Indeed. Sort of like screaming "CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!" in order to shut down people's reasonable suspicions about the actions of Bushco. Becuause, you know, there's no such thing as criminal conspiracies. Bush's DOJ is above that sort of thing donchya know. They are such upstanding citizens and would never prosecute political hit jobs. :eyes:

[ScreamingMeemie]

153. There is not conspiracy. Anyone with a banking background is

familiar with this process. Bush's DOJ is the same DOJ that Spitzer was in lockstep with over wiretapping. So, unless he was in conspiracy with himself, it's BS.

The funny thing is, because I won't defend a criminal I get accused of defending Bush? No. I won't allow it from any party, on any level. We need to get rid of Bush, Cheney, Spitzer and the rest. It is just so very sad he got caught in his own damned web.

[Beetwasher]

155. Uh Huh, No Conspiracy

I guess all those AG's that were fired were fired by Spitzer? And Gov. Siegelman is not in jail.

Seriously, you deniers are pretty ludicrous these days to keep denying the criminal conspiracy that is the Bush administration.

[ScreamingMeemie]

160. Deniers? I doubt it. Demanders of accountability on all levels.

I spilled it out for you but again you pick and choose. Read it again. You do yourself and democracy no favors by being obtuse based on partisanship.

[Beetwasher]

161. What??

So selective political prosecution is ok by you? And you say you demand accountability? No one is absolving Spitzer. You however are absolving the DOJ by denying that it's reasonable to suspect them of a political hit job, when there's plenty of reasons to be suspicious. You demand accountability only from the Democrat. What does that say about YOUR partisanship? :eyes:

[ScreamingMeemie]

162. Again...I have not seen any evidence of that. And you have not

shown me any. In response to my demand from only the democrat, read my posts over today and the last 4 years. What does it say about me? It says that I demand that the bullshit stops, on all levels. That's my demand. None of them should get away with this. Bush on down. Now READ...READ...READ... instead of getting irrational with those who won't go off all conspiracy with you. Thank you.

[Beetwasher]

163. You Haven't Seen Any Evidence of DOJ Being Politicized? Really?

I don't believe you. If not, where the fuck have you been? Another dimension? Talk about reading comprehension. Perhaps you've had your head buried up your ass for the past few years?

[ScreamingMeemie]

164. Not in the case of Mr. Spitzer. No. In fact, I see the opposite. I see him

lobbying with Republicans in 2004 to get the DOJ to allow for extensive wiretapping. Please try to remain civil. If not, don't bother. People can disagree and remain civil. I'm sorry, I don't see a conspiracy here. It is what it is...the stupid arrogance of a man who deserves to be caught, just as (for what appears to be a need for clarification everytime I speak with you even though this has long been my stance) Bush and company do.

[Beetwasher]

167. I Find Your Egregious Lack Of Comprehension

To be offensive and so I will NOT be fucking civil. If you can't take it, stay off the internets.

You obviously cannot comprehend two separate ideas at once, 1. Spitzer committed a crime and 2. the possible far more serious crime of politicization of prosecutions and use of illegal information gathering at DOJ.

[Occulus]

181. You don't do much dichotic thinking, do you?

Because A is true, it does not follow that B must be false.

Get it now?

[Occam Bandage]

26. Correct. However, I find it hard to believe this is anything but what it is.

[JackRiddler]

27. Yes.

But he's just as finished, because of the fact that he's guilty and the dominance of peculiar American social neuroses that revel in sexual sin by individuals, but invariably deny the reality of widespread pecuniary corruption.

Should pics of Bush making out with Gannon emerge as the result of a set-up by political operators (just a thought experiment), how is this board going to react? Say that it's none of our business if consenting adults fuck? Ha ha.

[Solly Mack]

29. Correct. Both can be true

[0007]

30. Sure looking like it ....... Will this indeed save the FISA program?

[TommyO]

33. How was his personal decision to use the services of a hooker

a set up? All he had to do was say, "no".

[Beetwasher]

37. strawman bs

I didn't say that. I am saying there is selective enforcement.

[TommyO]

71. Yes, there is selective enforcement, high-profile targets always get more attention

If you can take down a governor, especially a hypocrite like Spitzer (given his prosecution of prostitution rings), regardless of party, you will.

[Beetwasher]

73. Heh, Unless They Are Republicans

So, it's ok if the DOJ operatest like that?

[debbierlus]

36. Exactly.

[natrat]

39. true but spitzer is an incredible idiot

[L. Coyote]

45. In this case, it seems Spitzer set himself up for Prosecution. Rs happy to oblige!!

You are not being "set up" if you are trying to hide a tryst.

The term you are seeking is "targeted" I think???

[HamdenRice]

46. THANK YOU!! It's not a difficult concept but it's just beyond some people nt

[BadgerLaw2010]

48. How is "set up" when you flag CTR/SAR by flinging cash to offshore shells as gov?

That looks suspicious as hell, but the flags themselves are very "normal" as anyone who banks with large sums of money or works in a bank will tell you.

[Beetwasher]

69. Umm, He Didn't Do That

He paid cash for escorts and had nothing to do w/ offshore shells.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/11/51123/3435/851/474082

[ecstatic]

55. Every dem should know that bushco's out to get 'em

and be extra careful. Being set up is not an excuse. It's unfair to be scrutinized harder than repugs, but if you do the right thing you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[Celebration]

59. Exactly

In the unlikely event that this is a selective enforcement, it is still 100% his fault. And nobody induced him to do this............at all.

At best he is stupid, stupid, stupid, and a hypocrite, no matter what the circumstances of the law enforcement authorities.

[Beetwasher]

72. Uh, Really? Like Gov. Siegelman???

Give me a break. The point is, they will target Dems and INVENT crimes based on the flimsiest of evidence. Spitzer is a fucking idiot, but politically targeting by the DOJ is WORSE.

[BlooInBloo]

77. Hilarious how DUers don't grasp that.

[Liberal In Texas]

82. Exactly. Recommended.

They're using the DoJ and their wiretap abilities to bring down their enemies.

Spitzer was a warning shot to keep other Dems. who may have skeletons in their closet to play along, or risk being outed.

Very reminiscent of J. Edgar Hoover.

[redqueen]

89. Well said. (nt)

[EFerrari]

94. Exactly. Remember the Bush Department of "Justice" only works

for the Republican Party.

[flyarm]

101. unbelievable..isn't it..the naivety here is astounding!..even after the Alabama Gov..

there is still a level of ignorance that is astounding.


PSSSSSSSSSSSSS Agent Mike..and IRS.. i am going shopping today..a big block of money may move in my accounts..
but i assure..you..no hookers..

think You might work on that Blackwater scam of calling its employees ..sub -contractors to get out of paying taxes??


or how about working with the IRS and unfolding some of the criminals involved in scams involved in the mortgage industry?



Hmm Agent Mike you have me wondering why the IRS and the feds are wasting time busting hooker rings when corporations are jumping through multi million dollar loop holes daily? or why Blackwater was vetted as qualified to be awarded small business contracts,maybe if you weren't so busy with Hookers??...maybe someone could have asked how this company is getting hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts… and how are considered a small business?

just wondering...

fly



oh and P.S. what happened to that billions and billions and billions missing in Iraq..any suspects yet? ..ahh i didn't think so..

how about those Put Options on the airlines before 9/11 are you still working on that?

nahh i didn't think so either..

but hoookerssssssss..and democratic Governors..you guys have that one down pat don'tcha!!

good job agent mike!!

[Leopolds Ghost]

102. It is called learned helplessness. Most liberal internet geeks are fools who don't understand how

High-class prostitution rings organized by the Mafia and clandestine services work.

They are called honeytraps. They are a primary political tool of the clandestine service,
used, in this case, to benefit Wall St. and corrupt politicians in Albany.
Before the secret services used them to keep politicians in check, the Mafia used them
to keep politicians in check. Wake up, DU.

Escort services like these service 1000s of politicians in Washington and
Albany, yet the sheeple on the liberal blogs do not demand them to be fired
any more than they want Rush to be fired for saying worse things than Imus.

It is called learned helplessness, DUers. Get over it.

It is very difficult for people suffering from learned helplessness,
such as liberal internet geeks, to ascertain when they are being made
a fool of by an organized blackmail/sting operation directed at all
political enemies of Wall Street using honeytraps and wiretaps.

Spitzer is merely the fall guy for this operation.

Remember the "Velvet Mafia" that kept the House Republicans in check?

[opihimoimoi]

108. For Gods Sake....At least it s a WOMAN and not a guy or a child...or animals like them calves/dogs/e

even chickens too....

He is a normal guy....or maybe he was tied up like the movie Bank Job....who knows and who cares...

[Leopolds Ghost]

113. Or Vitter with his unproecuted diaper fetish? (per the testimony of prostitute)

And Vitter is still in the Senate, blocking a bill to save NOLA public housing, another bill that some DUers and their favored candidates don't seem to care about. No similar 1-senator blocks were permitted for the warrantless wiretapping bill.

Note how the government does not have to prove they used warrantless wiretapping of Spitzer to "set them on the trail" of this evidence. They just "stumbled upon it" after Spitzer angered an Albany crime boss.

[Perry Logan]

117. At this point in history, it's illogical to believe ANY accusation made against a Democrat.

[housewolf]

118. His frickin' BANK turned him in... not DOJ

His bank turned him in to the IRS based on cash transactions they thought were "suspicious".

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/nyregion/11inquire.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[fascisthunter]

120. You are Right... Both are a Possibility

and knowing how the Republicans use the Justice department to screw Dems (Seigelman) I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

[Thepricebreaker]

121. What happend to HOLY SHIT HE REALLY DID IT AND IS GUILTY? POSSIBLE?

[goodgd_yall]

122. Of course it's meant to smear the Democratic Party

It's election year! I'm sure that politicians using the services of prostitutes is not that uncommon. Choosing who to target for an investigation and who to expose is what becomes the political tactic.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

124. "Set up"? The issue isn't Spitzer being caught, it's other people not being.

It is entirely possible that the DOJ is targeting Democrats more than Republicans for investigation.

If so, the complaint that should be raised is not "you are investigating Democrats too much" but "you are not investigating Republicans enough".

[Chovexani]

125. Hilarious isn't it?

Especially when you consider these are the same people who rake elected Dems like Pelosi over the coals for being too trusting of BushCo.

Guess they are just as stupid.

[tom_paine]

130. 100% true. But denial is the most powerful of all human emotions.

DU is no exception. We're no exception, in the psychological areas to which we are vulnerable (which doesn't happen to be Bushie malfeasance nor the utter totalitarian nature of the Empire in which we live).

It is human. It is primate. It is us, all of us.

Today, Beetwasher, we are the ones who can see clearly and so many others are ind enial.

Tomorrow, it will be us in denial about which others can see clearly.

[butterfly77]

137. Exactly..

[Junkdrawer]

144. Tell you what: Those few who believed that DU isn't being gamed....

to push the latest REPUBLICAN party line have sure gotten a wakeup call the last day or so.

[havocmom]

166. Not hard to believe bush/cheney would do target DEM to get the other DEMS back in line either.

'Come to Jesus'*.... or else.

* tow the line and do as we tell you for the analogy-impaired ;)

[garybeck]

168. there's a difference between being SET UP and being TARGETED.

Spitzer was not set up, he was targeted.

[arthritisR_US]

169. TY, excellent point! n/t

[petronius]

170. Right. However, just because two things are not mutually exclusive they are not

necessarily both true. Until you can point to even a shred of evidence that this underhanded dealing occurred, all your frothing at the mouth over the naivete of other DUers is just empty noise...

[JackRiddler]

172. But it didn't start with the Busco. DOJ...

Executives at the banks managing Spitzer's account made the decision on their own discretion to provide the information about his money transfers, although there was no legal obligation to do so. They may have been the ones who decided to bring him down.

Please read this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2995172

[EFerrari]

173. Of course it did. My family transfers those amounts all the time.

If banks kept track of those amounts, they'd do nothing else.

It's bullshit.

They were gunning for him.

[JackRiddler]

174. Of course DOJ is always gunning for him and all other (D)'s...

But the bank had to rat him out.

So either

a) Someone federal went to the bank and made them look at Spitzer's accounts

or

b) The bank made the decision to rat him out to the IRS on its own, possibly knowing exactly what QAT was.

Your point, that the amounts were a joke to the bank and wouldn't have normally roused any such treatment fits with both a) and b). See? The bank KNOWS it's Spitzer's accounts, true?

[EFerrari]

175. That's true. And I tend to believe a) because why would a bank

go after one of its clients for no reason? That doesn't make sense.

[JackRiddler]

176. Why would it go after "one of its clients"?!

That's not the question!

He's not only a client - he's the governor. He's Spitzer. They understand that.

Why would a still-unidentified "large New York bank" (note this does not describe HSBC), possibly one on the brink of a financial meltdown, want to go after the governor of New York and the famous Scourge of Wall Street?

I can think of a few possible reasons, including that the bank has friends in the regime, but also that it might see another interest for itself in bringing him down. Can't you?

[EFerrari]

177. Now I do. I never considered that.

The perfect storm.

Damn.

[Beetwasher]

182. This Is A Good Point

The banks may have initiated this to get Spitzer. He HAS been a thorn in their side, and Bushie DOJ would have been MORE than happy to oblige.

I would not be surprised if Bush DOJ has "services" for sale for their friends. IOW, big banks, big corps can "rent" Total Information Awareness systems and/or "buy" information for the right "price".

There are numerous large banks and financial institutions that would indeed have bones to pick w/ Spitzer.

Good points.