Who do you think Al Qaeda wants to win the election ?

[NJmaverick]

I think it's a good idea to consider OBL's basic history. He was a soldier in the insurgent forces that drove the USSR out of Afghanistan. When that succeeded he had little to do, and he was marginalized. Then came gulf war 1. He wanted to be the army that fought Saddam and protect the Saudis. That didn't happen and he was pissed and again marginalized. His message that the US wanted to colonize the Muslim Mideast didn't exactly resonate with the people's in the region.

Now before we go farther, we need to know how terrorists opporate. First off, to be successful they need the general good will and tacit support of the people, in the regions they operate. With out that, they would be unable to hide their operations, have the go off successfully and not be able to recruit new people. Terror groups employing suicide bombings have an especially daunting task recruiting new people (although not impossible as we have seen suicide cults right here in the US).

Anyway back to how terrorist operate. Terrorist tactics are usually employed when you don't have a military force is strong enough to even engage in guerilla operations (or the terrian and situation doesn't make that possible). So it's the very weak against the very strong. So the idea of terrorism is to attack the enemy in a manner that causes the maxium ammount or terror and disruption. The attacks don't have to cause massive deaths, just disrupt and scare the enemy (usually it's civilian population). The idea that in time the enemy will grow weary of the attacks, or will bankrupt or cripple their economy (due to the attacks and fighting the attack) and seek to give the terrorist the concessions that want.

So back to OBL, in order to gain the recognition and clout he desired, he launched the most devestating terror attack in the history of mankind. Now one has to wonder why? Well he hoped that the US would over react and rush into armed conflicts in the middle east. That is exactly what OBL wanted. It would prove to the Muslim people he was right, and it would give him a great recruiting tool and training area. Remember OBL is at home in guerilla warfar situation.

He pretty much counted on an invasion of Afghanistan (he knew he would be able to flee to the mountains as he did with the Soviets). He figured that would draw the US into a long and costly no win war in that region (after all history has shown this isn't a Country one wants to invade and occupy, just ask the USSR and Great Britian).

He got his war, but it did not go as well as he was hoping. He greatly overestimated his own strengths and abilites, while not realizing the US was technologically superior to the USSR.

This is where the huge mistake happened. Just as he was on the ropes and praying to Allah for a miracle, he got just that. The US took it's eye off the prize and invaded Iraq. This was the miracle OBL was praying for. Suddenly needed resources were removed from Afghanistan and sent to Iraq. Suddenly there was another US invasion. Only unlike Afghanistan that was generally supported (or at least accepted) and wasn't creating bad press and feeling against the United States, you had the complete opposite with the invasion of Iraq. Better yet, Saddam was a natural enemy of OBL so he couldn't have asked for a better Country for the US to invade.

So now OBL is sitting safe in his case of Afghanistand and Pakistan. He has the US bleeding money at 12 billion on month for Iraq and a couple of billion for afghanistan. Oil prices are going through the roof. Which is helping his people while hurting the western world. He has become a important and legendary figure in the third world. He has every thing he could possible want.


So considering this situation who would he want in the White House. A tempermental president, who's temperment would make him easy to manipulate? One who would continue the policies that have brought him great succes? Or would he want to change the situation? Would he want a president who's father was Muslim and who's election would seriously undermine his message? Would he want Hillary, who would also try and pull the US out fo the region? Would he want a president that would pull the US out of Iraq, there by stopping the finacial bleeding. Further pulling out of the region would help to reduce the hatred for the US.


All in all I think McCain is right. Al Qaeda may try and influence the election (just as OBL gave that speech that helped George Bush in 2004). He wants to see the US in Iraq for the next 100 years.

[ananda]

1. Honestly, why should Al-qaeda care?

They've succeeded in making the USA so scared,
hatefilled, and crazy that we've allowed a
malignant, ignorant president and his corporate
groupies to ruin America and make life so bad
for so many millions here and abroad.

So again, why should they care? They've already
succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

[NJmaverick]

9. Well if McCain wins, none of that changes

If Hillary or Obama wins that could all go away.

[joeybee12]

2. I think he wants Bush to run for a third term...n/t

[Mike Nelson]

3. Plenty of time for "Fear Twins" Bush and Bin Laden...

to stir up Terror. Expect it.

[bluerum]

4. Our government has demonstrated that they are for sale to the highest bidder.

Apparently that bidder does not have to be a US citizen nor are they required to be concerned about the long term interests of the US.

We have been sold down the river by our government.

[liberal N proud]

5. I don't really give a shit what al Qaeda thinks about our election

We should be looking at this election in light of what it means for America. I realize the next President has to mend the wounds bu$h has inflicted upon the world, but lets focus on what America needs not al Qaeda or any other foreign contingent including Israel.

[NJmaverick]

10. The Republicans and McCain

Will try to create the false impression that a win for the Dems will be win for Al Qaeada. So it's going to be important to be able to counter that deception.

[liberal N proud]

18. That is my counter.

Any republicon come at me with the terror bullshit I will tell them they should focus on the US not al Qaeada.

All I know is this same old fear bull is worn out.

[Marr]

31. It might be even better to preempt it.

And never even acknowledge their argument at all. I think you make a strong case for why terrorists would prefer a John McCain presidency, and a continuation of Bush policies.

[aquart]

6. Why would I care what those selfish idiots want?

They mean less than nothing to me. Do we let cockroaches govern our lives? Seal the flour and sugar and go on about your business.

[NJmaverick]

11. Please see post 10

[Breeze54]

7. Democrats.

"Would he want a president that would pull the US out of Iraq, there by stopping the financial bleeding.
Further pulling out of the region would help to reduce the hatred for the US."

He wants the US out of the ME. I think it may happen with Democrats at the helm.

[NJmaverick]

13. He doesn't want the US out of Iraq

The war is bankrupting the US and sapping it's moral. OBL has a great recruiting tool and great training grounds, with the Iraq occupation. The last thing he wants is for the US to leave.

[Breeze54]

15. That was what he wanted or that was what he stated as the

reasons for hating the US. He wanted the US out of the ME.

He says he wants to destroy America, so I'm sure he's happy about the costs of the wars.

[lonestarnot]

20. I think you could be wrong. I would be my guess that he enjoys seeing 12 billion a month drained

from our treasury and the ensuing bankruptcy of the U.S. not unlike the Soviet Union.

[Breeze54]

23. I already said I'm sure he's enjoying that....

I was talking about what he claimed was the reason that they hated the US.

---------------

December 23, 2004

What Does Osama bin Laden Want?

http://bowman.typepad.com/cubowman/2004/12/what_does_osama.html

Don Van Natta, Jr. recently wrote a fascinating piece on Osama bin Laden for the http://www.nytimes.com/">The New York Times.
I highly recommend reading the entire article, but here are a few excerpts to get you started:

What does Osama bin Laden want?

The vexing question emerged again last week with the release of an audiotape on which the Qaeda leader
seems to be speaking. On it, he applauds the Dec. 6 attack against the United States Consulate in Jidda,
Saudi Arabia, and urges the toppling of the Saudi royal family.

The tape indicated that Mr. bin Laden has apparently moved the fomenting of a revolution in his
Saudi homeland toward the top of his lengthy and ambitious wish list, which also includes the reversal
of American foreign policy in the Middle East, the retreat of the American military from the Arabian Peninsula
and the creation of a Palestinian homeland.

(. . .)

-----------------------------------------------


Flash-Osama bin Laden Wants West Out Of Middle East!

http://theimpudentobserver.com/world-news/flash-osama-bin-laden-wants-west-out-of-middle-east/

November 30th, 2007 by Fred Stopsky · No Comments

In another example of Osama bin Laden attempting to come across as a real threat, the terrorist leader urged European leaders to get out of the Middle East for their own good. He noted, “with the grace of God…the American tide is receding and they eventually will return to their home across the Atlantic, it is in your own interests to force the hand of your politicians(away from) the White House.” He said the United States and the Europeans would soon be out of Afghanistan which would allow its neighbors to “settle their scores.’ Osama bin Laden also claimed he alone was responsible for 9/11 and the Taliban knew nothing about his plans or actions. He expressed concern that Americans deliberately bombed innocent children and women in order to break the spirit of the mujahideen.

More...


---------------------------


Bin Laden urges Europe to quit Afghanistan

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2007-11/30/content_6288850.htm

(Agencies)
Updated: 2007-11-30 07:08

DUBAI --

Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden urged European countries to end their military cooperation
with US forces in Afghanistan, in an audio tape aired by Al Jazeera television on Thursday.


Osama bin Laden in a 1998 photo. The al Qaeda leader urged European countries to end their
military participation with US forces in the Afghan conflict, Al Jazeera television said omon Thursday.

(Agencies)

He said American power was waning and it would be wise for the Europeans to quickly end
their role in Afghanistan, where many European countries contribute to the 50,000-strong NATO
and US-led coalition forces fighting his Taliban allies.

"With the grace of God ... the American tide is receding and they would eventually return to
their home across the Atlantic ... It is in your interest to force the hand of your
politicians (away from) the White House," said a speaker in the rec.....

[NJmaverick]

32. I remember reading some years back

That OBL wanted to bring about the economic ruin of the US

[Breeze54]

37. He did say that.

and he also wants us and Europe out of the ME. He wants a lot of things.

[tomg]

72. Boy, I bet he is pissed off at Bush for

beating him to it.

[saltpoint]

8. Probably Giuliani.

They would remain sharply defined and highly motivated under a Giuliani administration.

[mmonk]

12. Anyone that will keep our ugly face shown internationally

instead of an international leader face.

[pretzel4gore]

14. there's no OBL..

Osama is a creation of the same forces that is sponsoring the weirdo election, which seems to give no one a choice, both left and right are given nothing...the point is, time travels on, and cnn/fuxnews defecate in public daily, and the smell fills the air, and mr pig wallows in the slop. Who killed kennedy? if this idiotic culture can't even answer a simple question about a vicious murder from 40 years ago, which brought joy to the busheviki, who also sponsor the obama versus hillary versus war hero john- perhaps it's time people stopped sucking on the teat the pigmedia offers them, because they can't or won't answer the Kennedy question w/out bringing up the name of on duty government (Office/Naval Intelligence) agent Oswald, who was in Dallas to prevent the murder (which proves Agent Oswald was set up)
shame on the american people

[jedr]

16. Seems strange that a man who hasn't been seen for 6+ yrs,

Only shows up on audio tape around election time?????? Go figure........

[frogcycle]

17. This entire discussion is inappropriate

We should not be choosing leaders based on speculation of what "the terrorists" want.

What WE want is what matters.

Your conclusion that muckain is not that is correct, but the rationale is spurious.

Despite the many incidents, global terrorism is not the biggest threat to our future, and the entire "global war on terror" is a sham. We need to refocus for our reasons, not because it is not what "OBL" wants.

[Breeze54]

19. I don't agree that this discussion is inappropriate.

That's what started this whole mess. The US in the ME.

I believe the OP is posing a rhetorical question.

It is food for thought, don't you think?

[frogcycle]

28. the discussion of need to set appropriate priorities is appropriate

but coming at it from the perspective of "what would OBL want" just rubs me the wrong way

see post #21

[NJmaverick]

34. We are at war with OBL and his terror network

It would make sense that as part of that war, we consider what his goals and tactics are. If we don't we will continue to lose.

[uppityperson]

That assumption has caused a whole lot of problems

"We are at war with OBL and his terror network". False assumptions like that cause big problems.

[NJmaverick]

45. It's false how?

[frogcycle]

48. as in untrue

the "war" on terror makes as much sense as the "war" on poverty or the "war" on drugs.

discussing which candidates would best deal with the inarguable fact that there are those who wish to commit acts of terror is reasonable and proper.

Using the "what would OBL want" bullshit line is pure demagoguery - it is an effort to paint some candidates as playing into his hands, or worse yet, supporting him, while others are these great heroic fucking saviors. Neither is anywhere near true. Differences in opinion exist on strategies and tactics. Those are valid topics of discussion. rethuglican demagoguery is not.

[uppityperson]

50. pretty incredible, isn't it. Even here.

Though Op is on my special friend list.

[uppityperson]

49. We are not at war with OBL and his terror network

USA's involvement with Iraq has nothing to do with Osama or any terrorists except mrbush and co. Invading Afghanistan to kick out the Taliban who allowed Osama to live in Afghanistan is, at best, a link to Osama, but no. We are not at war with OBL and his terror network.

[Echo In Light]

58. The phony "war on terror" is hegemony, and a real "war" on free people everywhere

[uppityperson]

61. Yup. Combine The Big Lie with Fear and you can get by with a lot.

The Big Lie is when something untrue is repeated enough times to gain a veracity of its own.
Fear is keeping people off balance, trying to figure out what is real and what isn't.

Combine these, throw in a good advertising person and voila! People respond by externalizing what they are afraid of, making an outside "Them" that doesn't have much to do with what is really going on, giving those pulling the strings the freedom to do whatever they want.

[Echo In Light]

64. Even when it's painfully obvious some can't face that there's this vast corporate/state system LYING

To them 24/7 ... this lying/brainwashing/propagandizing apparatus that is so all encompassing it's like man a made weather system enshrouding the collective consciousness. I suppose people choose not to believe they're so easily controlled ... perhaps that's what they want to be?

[frogcycle]

65. The big lie

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." - Adolf Hitler

[uppityperson]

66. Is that seriously where the term came from? nt

[frogcycle]

67. don't know - its a quote I found somewhere

might be older than that though - maybe he got it from charlemagne or somebody

[Echo In Light]

69. Goebbels and Co had such effective propaganda due to understanding mass psychology

Although I hardly doubt the "Lie Big" stratagem was conceived by them.

[uppityperson]

70. I was wondering if the term came from them or if it's one of those

long term known terms.

[frogcycle]

73. i tried the "google"

and found it attributed both to hitler and to goebbels

[Echo In Light]

76. The Nazi party wasn't the first govt/power structure to lie to its citizenry...

That's all I was saying.

[uppityperson]

77. Nope, it's been going on forever. Sometimes I realize how little humanity has evolved.

[Echo In Light]

78. Nothing new under the sun - only more elaborate methods of thought control/coercion

[frogcycle]

79. wasn't quarrelling with you, just giving info to the group

that it is attributed to both probably means they both quoted someone else

[lonestarnot]

21. This is an economic discussion as the war cannot be separated from the economy!

[NJmaverick]

36. Very true

Just as Afghanistan and the cold war caused the economic ruin of the USSR, Iraq and Afghanistan have the potential to do the same to the USA.

[uppityperson]

63. Or we could figure out whom those "terrorists" are.

I'd say gwb rather than obl is the one who is encouraging terrorism to continue through another couple generations ar least.

[L. Coyote]

22. What a crock this is. The Rs are trying to SPIN this one into a victory over Obama

by portraying how an organization thinks.

First, Al Qaeda does not want. Wanting is a human emotion,
and the question the Rs are trying to push is,
"Which candidate would those who may attack the United States favor?"

This question rests on false assumptions, that they think about it snd that it matters to them!

[NJmaverick]

35. OBL and Al Qaeda

Do have goals and a plan to achieve those goals. I think it's a huge mistake to underestimate them and think they don't.

[undeterred]

24. I think Timmeh is having him on next week.

Can you wait that long?

[Arkana]

25. Ron Paul

Because EVERYONE wants Ron Paul to win. They just won't admit it.

[I work for workers]

26. Ron Paul I guess. No other remaining candidate would stand aside

and let him rebuild the caliphate.

[zonmoy]

27. whoever the cia nsa and any other espionage agencies of

whatever cabals actually run our government want.

[AzDar]

29. Mitt Romney. They admire his hair and his many wives.

[gulliver]

30. All of our enemies and rivals want Bush Jr. Jr. (McCain)

Bin Laden will probably do a campaign commercial for McCain just as he did for Bush in 2004. But OBL is not the only one who gains if America stays on the Bush track to oblivion. Every single enemy and rival we have stands to continue huge gains at American expense if McCain is elected.

[NJmaverick]

33. Very true

Our economic rivals like China and Europe benefit as we waste our resources in Iraq. Russia benefits as we drain our military might in two unwinnable wars, as does China. Everyone but the US gains of McCain is elected president.

[uppityperson]

38. 9/11 was more "devestating terror attack in the history of mankind" than, say Hiroshima/Nagasaki?

I don't think so.

Regarding Osama, at this point he is irrelevant, as is al Qaeda. We have more terrorists in our midst, more issues to worry about than them. mrbush used them as an excuse to bring the USA down. mrbushandhisevilminions, now THEY are the terrorists I fear.

[NJmaverick]

42. One was an act during war, the other was a terror attack

That's what allows 9/11 to be ranked number one.

[uppityperson]

43. It was an act upon civilians to promote terror.

It was a terror act.

[hifalutin]

46. It was an attack

of terror, the largest to ever hit on American soil.

[uppityperson]

56. How about this weapon of terror? It terrorized & killed more.

This was the delivery system:



That led to this:

[Xenotime]

68. OMG! The suffering of that child.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[uppityperson]

71. Smallpox is a nasty thing, not much around anymore but people should know what it is.

People who area against vaccines need to see pictures of how it could be, and I consider giving Indians infected blankets to kill them off an act of terror.

[dfgrbac]

55. 9/11

Anyone who still thinks that the U.S. is innocent in all this has not been doing their homework.

[VotesForWomen]

39. obama; aljazeera's already pushing him. we've had the crazy war monger, now AQ wants to see that we'

we've come around the their way of thinking. it would be a psychological victory, even if there is no real change in US policy.

[CJCRANE]

52. Al-Jazeera is owned

by the govt of Qatar who are close to Bushco (and Giuliani BTW)...so their agenda is possibly different from what it appears to be.

It's no coincidence that they release the Bin Laden tapes right on cue whenever Bushco need them.

[Rex]

40. I bet they are rooting for another Repuke.

I mean, just look what 9/11 did for them in terms of what they didn't have to do to America - our idiot president did it all for them. They probably hope a McCain would mean even more fascism for American citizens. Destroy more of our rights and at the same time watch the economy flush itself down the toilet. Go broke funding the military and can't even pay to keep the lawns mowed.

Repukes are what they want.

[quadriga]

41. If al Queda were real

They would have their own media/propaganda effort. Since they aren't, they don't.

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. Everyone who hates us and makes a living off misery wants McCain.

Osama, and other shitpot evil filth like him, need Republicans in the White House - specifically, Christian Zionist triumphalist Republicans who are so perfectly and utterly willing to constantly feed Osama what he wants: reasons to hate, reasons to enact violence, and the chances to enact violence.

Osama, and people like him, don't want freedom or an end to oppression or their own country. He only wants continued violence and chaos, because that's he gains power and money from.

A Democrat in the White House won't play Osama's game anywhere near as perfectly well that Bush and cronies have done.

[mdmc]

47. Stay the course - its all good

:kick:

[tabasco]

51. JOHN MCCAIN.

The republicans are doing a great job of destroying the USA.

[Disturbed]

62. Sen Obama wants most of the Troops & Mercs out of Iraq.

He wants to send a whole lot of them to Afghanistan to focus on
defeating the Taliban and Al Q, perhaps going into Pakistan to kill
more Taliban & Al Q leaders. Al Q. would not want Obama as the next US Pres.
It is a similar scenario for Sen. Clinton. Yes, McSame would be Al Q.'s logical
choice.

[Karenina]

53. This thread is "Exhibit A" of exactly WHY America

is Rome, the Hindenberg and the Titanic all rolled into one! :eyes:

[JackRiddler]

57. Oh, come on...

More like Exhibit Z plus 10,001. ;)

[Echo In Light]

59. Scary that so many still don't get that the "war on terror" is only propaganda/cover

[JackRiddler]

54. Which Al-Qaeda - the phantom or the the CIA operation?

So, do you really know for sure it was "Bin Ladin" timing a speech on Bush's behalf in late October 2004? The release included former death metal cultist "Azzam the American" (Adam Gadahn), do you really think he's genuine?

Next you'll tell me Zarqawi pulled off 1,000 attacks in Iraq, and back in 1990, Saddam left the incubator babies to die on the hospital floor.

[JackRiddler]

60. By the way, we agree.

"It's a good idea to consider OBL's basic history."

You could start with his family - the long-term business partners of the Bush family and co-investors in the Carlyle Group. Or the Safari Group - Bush's alliance while running the CIA with the Saudi and other foreign intel agencies to get dirty work done at a time when the CIA was under scrutiny. Or the setting up and the arming of the Arab international brigades in Afghanistan as part of the self-advertised "largest CIA operation in history" in a partnership with the Saudis and Pakistani ISI.

[devilgrrl]

74. Wouldn't that be easier to answer if Al Qaeda actually existed?

At this point I think they're a fabrication.

Kind of like the "War on Terrorism"

[slackmaster]

75. They're probably backing Ralph Nader

:hide: