Don't cave in to the disruptors and dividers on DU

[brentspeak]

Don't be a sucker. They want you to jump ship. There are some people employed by Republican think tanks who actually don't do anything all day long but try to think of ways to pit Democrat-against-Democrat -- taking advantage of the fact that Democrats have been suffering from a lack of disciplined solidarity ever since JFK was assassinated.

And don't be discouraged by the defeatists, who aren't disruptors, but who thoughtlessly spread gloom and doom among fellow Democrats.

Wusses, weaklings, and weasels belong with the GOP, and have no place in the Democratic party. You are made of sterner stuff.

[bonito]

1. Great post, right on!

[cassiepriam]

2. And they are paid well, I have run into these people on other forums.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. How did you find out their salary?

Did they give a full confession?

[cassiepriam]

8. I have my ways of finding out things......

Some of them are very bright, well educated and well paid.

Others are lower level, not too bright. Some are mentally ill.
The last two groups don't need to be paid much. They are easily manipulated.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. How much do the best get paid?

Have you published their names? This kind of thing ought to be properly exposed.

[Joe Chi Minh]

35. Not allowed on here, is it?

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Do you mean we can't pay people to go and disrupt other sites?

If you mean "we can't name paid disruptors here", of course we can. Anyway, they were disruptors on other sites. And I mean real names, not user names.

The EU is proposing to make it a criminal offence for businesses to post fake customer reviews.

[Joe Chi Minh]

53. It is a rule of DU that we shouldn't accuse another poster of being a troll.

To report them or some such is OK.

But why speculate about what I might mean, when I've written what I do mean? And who gives a rat's backside about what the EU is enacting in connection with the thrust of this thread? Which I presume is what you are implying. It seems an incredibly exotic digression on what has been a very focused thread. I may have to read your response tomorrow, as it's late.

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. I 'speculated' because it wasn't clear what you meant by 'it'

'It' might have meant "being paid to disrupt" (as others on this thread have said "I need a job like that!"), or it might have meant "accusing others of being a paid troll". But you are allowed to accuse people of what they do on other sites, so 'it' would indeed be allowed, since that is what had been talked about by the DUer earlier in this subthread.

I could have said "who gives a rat's arse" about your comment. But I didn't. Why are you feeling so hostile?

[Joe Chi Minh]

56. Because I'm mad angry. The more so for your exotic digression.

I made no mention of anyone being paid. Was I obliged to take up that issue, Ms Strangler of pauvre wee beasties? So that you could go off at a tangent?

And was I also obliged to address the matter of DUers posting on other, Republican threads? It was very remiss of me not to, wasn't it. I can see that now. My profound apologies. I hope you'll forgive me.

Fact is, I deeply resent your persistent attempts to raise this discourse to a civilised level. There's a time and a place for everything. We had enough of two "erudite", female casuists on here trying to baboozle us about the voting machines and fraud in the elections, telling us black was white, and white was black, and to concentrate on the individual trees not the forest.

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. Since all 5 posts leading up to yours were discussing being paid

then it was quite possible that 'it' referred to 'being paid'. If you can't be bothered to make yourself clearer than saying 'it', you are very likely to get misunderstood. However, those 5 posts also mean I wasn't going off at a tangent.

You don't have to address points that other people make at all. No-one forces you to reply. Common courtesy would be to just ignore bits you're not interested in, not point out publicly that you don't give a rat's arse about them.

I'm not sure who the 2 'female casuists' you refer to are (Bev Harris would be one, I suppose); is there a reason you bring up their gender?

[Joe Chi Minh]

84. Only because they were women. No it wasn't Bev Harris. I can't remember their wretched names,

and to be candid with you, I prefer not to retain more dross than is absolutely necessary in my memory.

It was you who made an issue about the poster's honesty and credibility, and that's why I'm partcularly mad at you. A prime example of footling disruption. Who on earth do you think cares, here, whether you believe that poster knows the respective levels of remuneatiosn of those pperatives. Are you really so dumb you don't think the neo Republicans' would pay for such operatives.

Are you a paid operative? Or just so disoriented that you can't help disrupting a hitherto very focused thread, with irrelevant, or at best trivial digressions? What possible bearing could an EU directive have on the uses and abuses of this board?

That EU reference of yours was very reminiscent of the BS masquerading as a supporting bibliography of those two trolls? You're not one of them wearing another hat, are you? Another option the neocon operatives resort to.

[muriel_volestrangler]

92. The poster said they had ways of finding out which trolls were paid

which is very relevant to the topic of the thread. These ways would be far more useful for us than random accusations thrown around by people like you. You've already had a post deleted in this thread which accused someone of being a troll, so it would be better if you stopped accusing DUers of being disruptors - which is, as you yourself pointed out, against the rules.

I don't think Republicans would bother paying people to disrupt sites like DU, actually. Plenty of Republican supporters might do it for their own kicks, but I don't think any political party would think it's worthwhile paying for something that some of their supporters will do for free.

"A hitherto very focused thread"? :rofl: This thread was all over the place, right from the first post.

The EU directive is related to people who pretend on the internet to be someone else, for monetary gain. Some people, such as yourself, think people get paid to disrupt DU. In both cases, money and deception about identities are involved.

[cassiepriam]

93. I used to think that no one would pay someome to disrupt liberal forums.

Now I am wiser and know that the repugs have unlimited funds
and resources which enable them to disseminate as much propaganda as possible.

And to vilify their opponents. They do it every day.

How do we think they took over the WH and country? It was not by accident. It was a carefully orchestrated effort that involved the efforts of many many people, most of them on a payroll.

[Joe Chi Minh]

94. "The poster said they had ways of finding out which trolls were paid".

Only in response to the sneering, but customarily vapid question of yours: "How did you find out their salary?"

What a girlie concern! I won't sleep a wink tonight... Nor will the DU administrators. As a matter of fact, I was unaware of it, but I suspect it was the level of rancour expressed in the post as much as the technical offence of accusing a poster of being a troll. Or as good as.

And I can't complain about that, as I don't feel comfortable about expressing that degree of rancour, however well merited by the recipient. Indeed, I feel demeaned responding to your posts, which read to me like sneers, but of a very low and infantile nature. And in spite of all, I feel as if you have triumphed, not me. Technically, it is evidently extremely irrational to feel that, but nevertheless, there must be some kind of truth in it. The goal of our human nature is very much more exalted than to put down people whose actions you consider to threaten the wellbeing, if not the lives of many people; important as it is to do everything in our power to combat their knavery.

In fact, I think that, so far, at least, DU's administrators have been very tolerant with me over the years, when technically I might have been sanctioned.

"How much do the best get paid? Have you published their names? This kind of thing ought to be properly exposed."

And without a vestige of shame, you throw that back at me. Now where have we seen that level of shamelessness....?

"I don't think Republicans would bother paying people to disrupt sites like DU, actually. Plenty of Republican supporters might do it for their own kicks, but I don't think any political party would think it's worthwhile paying for something that some of their supporters will do for free."

For all their villainy, they're professionals. You're too low in the pecking order, so you think like an amateur.

"'A hitherto very focused thread'? This thread was all over the place, right from the first post."

No, from the fourth post.

"The EU directive is related to people who pretend on the internet to be someone else, for monetary gain. Some people, such as yourself, think people get paid to disrupt DU. In both cases, money and deception about identities are involved."

I see you can't stop burbling on about that EU Directive, either. Trying to expain away your diversionary exotica.

If you're lucky, this will be expunged. But here's hoping.

[yurbud]

82. that's worth a thread of its own. We need the political version of that here or at least...

complete disclosure:

"I don't actually believe this but am posting from a list of response prepared by Hill & Knowlton on behalf of the Republican National Committee (or the petroleum lobby or whatever).

[cassiepriam]

37. This was only a small piece in a much larger disgusting picture.

I was investigating one of Bush's "failed companies." A company BushCo bought and ran into the ground with complex sweetheart deals, they walked away with about $2 billion and then filed bankruptcy. The $2 billion was essentially stolen from many innocent people (stockholders, bondholders, clients, banks, contract workers, etc.) And some people lost their lives.

Every one who was supposed to get rich did. All perfectly legal. Many people were paid to look the other way, including govt officials. A few small fish took the rap. And anyone who tried to expose the bad guys were professionally destroyed.

So in the scheme of things, the network of hired propagandists who are paid to harass various forums did not seem like such a big deal.

And the biggest thing I learned is that the public could care less, seems even bored with such matters. And there is so much money and pressure to be meted out by BushCo that little can be done.

I am hoping the tide is turning.

[dkofos]

3. I need a job like that!!

get

[northofdenali]

4. Bet I could disrupt the hell out of some repuke sites.........

Stealth Dem, that's me - ought to see me at some local repuke gatherings!!

Fellow Dems are my brothers and sisters, period. I alert to disruptors; have to let the mods decide, but at least they can see if I'm right. I've outed quite a few repukes at local Dem gatherings, as well. They know, now, to avoid me.

The old "divide and conquer" rule. Hopefully it won't work on DU.

K&R'd.

[givemebackmycountry]

6. Ya know what?

SCREW THEM!

I just made a donation to DU in the beginning of the month.
I may make ANOTHER donation to DU tomorrow at the beginning of THAT month!

Jump ship to where?
Free Republic?
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND?

READ THIS...

I ain't going nowhere... GOT THAT?

[jimshoes]

7. You have to be retarded

to be a conservative neocon any more. They are a party of liars and thieves. Fuck em'.

[Ian David]

9. The Democrats have had like a WHOLE MONTH to fix ALL OUR PROBLEMS..

And what have we gotten?

Nothing!

Screw you all!

I'm joining The Vampire Party and supporting Jonathon "The Impaler" Sharkey for President!





(Yes, I am kidding!)

[zanne]

63. Excellent point!

Is that you?

[Ian David]

64. Uhm.... no. n/t

[zanne]

65. Who is it?

I'm tired of looking like an idiot because I don't watch enough television.

[Ian David]

66. That's Presidential Candidate Jonathon "The Impaler" Sharkey

Just like I said in my post.

Geesh!



Jonathon Sharkey
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jonathon "The Impaler" Sharkey (born 1964-04-02 in Elizabeth, New Jersey as John Albert Sharkey) is a self-proclaimed satanist, "sanguinary vampyre", Hecate Witch and professional boxer as well as wrestler (under the name Rocky "Hurricane" Flash) and perennial candidate for public office.

He has filed with the Federal Election Commission to run for President of the United States twice as an Independent candidate (in 2004<1> and in 2008<2>) and for Congress in at least three states -- his home State of New Jersey (1999-2000, Republican)<3>, Indiana (Reform Party, 2000)<4> and Florida (2001-02, Republican)<5>. In 2006, he ran for governor of Minnesota.

It is difficult to pin down definitive facts relating to Sharkey, partly because of his numerous aliases, but also due to his authorship, over time, of many autobiographical websites which have include conflicting and unsubstantiated assertions of fact. A Federal judge in Indiana has remarked about Sharkey that "his view of reality and attendant behavior is nothing less than bizarre."<6> Sharkey claims that this was because Sharkey had previously "cursed out" the same judge.<7>

Philosophically, Sharkey professes a hatred for the Christian Supreme Being, God the Father, but claims that he has no disrespect for followers of the aforementioned. He says that this hatred began when his grandmother died, and fully consumed him in 2004. He claims that he became an angry and violent person as a result of his grandmother's death. However, Sharkey maintains that he is a religious pluralist and professes respect for all creeds as well as the US Constitution. His Minnesota gubernatorial campaign slogan was "A New Deal for Minnesota," and his 2008 Presidential campaign slogan is "The New Deal and Hope for America," reflecting his professed respect of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He has proposed impaling "any one found committing an act of terrorism in Minnesota"<8>, and advocates many additional unorthodox approaches to crime and other public issues.

Sharkey lived for a time in Florida under his wrestling name of Rocky Hurricane Flash. While there, he also used the assumed name Kathleen Sharkey and claimed that this Kathleen Sharkey was either his half-sister or his wife. He filed reports with the Federal Election Commission which listed Kathleen Sharkey as a member of his campaign staff. Eventually, a letter was filed with the Federal Election Commission, purportedly by Kathleen Sharkey, which implied that he had died.<9> Documents from a lawsuit filed in the Indianapolis District Court mention that Sharkey attempted to commit suicide. It has been suggested instead that he attempted to fake his own death.<10>

On 2006-01-13 Sharkey was arrested in Princeton, Minnesota on an outstanding bench warrant relating to two Indiana felony counts, one of escape and one of stalking a former girlfriend whom he had previously been jailed for harassing.<11> It was later discovered that the felony stalking charge had been dismissed on 2003-09-29<12> when Sharkey pleaded guilty to two counts of invasion of privacy and was ordered to attend mental health treatment.<13> At his trial on 2006-07-12, Sharkey was found not guilty of the felony escape charge.

An independently produced documentary about Sharkey, Impaler, is scheduled to debut in Australia on February 9, 2007.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathon_Sharkey

[zanne]

68. Why are all the insane ones good-looking? Sigh. nt

[Ian David]

70. You have really strange taste in men. n/t

[zanne]

71. That's what my husband says. nt

[MadHound]

10. Or they could simply be

Thoughtful, intelligent people who are pointing out the problems, and proposing solutions, to the myriad of problems that plague the Democratic party:shrug:

Nah, skip that, they're not marching in lockstep, therefore they must be disruptors, dividers, or *gasp* paid operatives:eyes:

Geez, sometimes this party reminds me of the French Revolution. Eating our own.

[kestrel91316]

13. United we stand. Divided we fall. DISRUPTORS ARE NOT WELCOME

AND HAVE NO PLACE HERE.

[MadHound]

16. So, is anybody who points out the problems plaguing the party a disruptor?

Geez, starting up that lockstep line dance a little early this election cycle aren't you?

Look friend, the Democratic party has tons of problems, ranging from increasing corporate influence to the radically rightward drift that the party has taken to the ongoing lack of a spine. Pointing these problems out, and suggesting solutions for them, is not disrupting. Or have you never heard of constructive criticism.

Trying to outshout, ignore, or get rid of such people only imperils the party. Such actions only silence the discussion that this party needs to thrive, survive and continue to grow.

Think about it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. "So, is anybody who points out the problems plaguing the party a disruptor?"

No, only those who adduce mythical problems. Any good news, and they're in like Flynn, attempting to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The biggest laugh is that their m.o. tends to be so stereotypical:

"Blah, blah... Unfortunately, much as I'd love to believe, etc, etc."

"That diabolical so-and-so Cheyney, Bush, the fat little propagandist whose name escapes me, Republican Uncle Tom Cobley, bah, I hate them, hate them .... but, but... they so powerful, so clever, Bush will just use his executive powers, won't he? The so and so! I hate him. All the judges have been bought and paid for by the Republican scum, haven't they? What can we do? I'd like to believe we'll win 2008, but, but......."

And last, but not least, their favourite wee emoticon, the down-in-the-mouth little chap shrugging his shoulders. Go back to sleep all you hopeless trolls! If your posts were any more hilariously transparent, they'd be invisible, a blank sheet - like your minds and souls.

[rebel with a cause]

76. Geeesh, I like the little shoulder shrugging smilie!

I use it when I am unsure of something.

I consider the disrupters as those who attack and ridicule others. Who no matter what you say, are against it. If you are religious, they hate you, you repulse them. If you are an atheist, they hate you, you make them afraid. these disrupters often travel in packs, and their attacks are merciless. I don't like this type of behavior and I prefer to think of those that exhibit it as trollers. If they are not, then they should learn to have some empathy and manners.

Off subject, but SIU at Carbondale is on "Cold Case" on A&E. Famous murder case here being reveiwed. Okay, sorry for the disruption in the conversation. ;-)

[Joe Chi Minh]

88. Sure, if there weren't people who used it in good faith, it would be no use to them.

Capisce?

[Raksha]

60. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

Loyal Democrats are often intensely critical of the party, especially of the rightward drift and corporate influence.

The people I tend to suspect of being trolls are the ones who accuse DU members as a whole of walking in lockstep. They don't use the term "politically correct" because that would be too obvious, but that's what they mean. They often claim to be the ONLY independent thinkers around here (hah!) and they're pretty damn loud and obnoxious about it too.

[Joe Chi Minh]

89. I couldn't agree more with your first point. But I'm also loud and obnoxious

when I find disruptive trolls - who are, never forget, however honey-tongued and putatively civilised and reasonable - complicit in dumping hundreds of thousand, indeed millions of Americans into a state of destitution.

That's the bottom line. Mr Big is always urbane and charming. It doesn't mean that he(or she) should be treated as decent and honourable. He has many thugs at street level, and plenty of other levels in the case of the neocons, to do his dirty work for him.

[Dover]

25. Is 'disruptor' defined the same way they define "terrorist"?

Who were the terrorists, the cowboys or the indians?

"You're either with us or against us"...now where have I heard THAT before?

[bryant69]

69. TOW THE LINE! OR ELSE!

ONE DU! ONE OPINION!

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[kestrel91316]

73. Disruption for disruption's sake is a common tactic of those who

only PRETEND to be Dems.

But I think you already knew that.

[bryant69]

74. EXACTLY. DISAGREEMENT IS DISRUPTION

EXPRESSING IDEAS COUNTER TO DU ORTHODOXY IS DISRUPTION! THOSE WHO DISRUPT MUST BE EXAMINED CAREFULLY AND THEN TOMBSTONED.

ONE DU! ONE OPINION!

Bryant

[kestrel91316]

78. Get back to me when you're over 18, child.

[bryant69]

79. ONE DU! ONE OPINION!

I am not the one who raises an issue and the runs cowardlike away from the implications! If you don't want a witch hunt, don't start one!

Bryant

[MadHound]

81. So who, and how, determines who is or isn't a disruptor?

Those who don't fall into lockstep orthodoxy, are they disruptors? Those who dare to point out the problems within the party, are they disruptors? Who determines this, you?

This is a vast and diverse board friend, and authoritarian demands to fall into lockstep thinking are counterproductive, both here, and in the real world. Think about it.

[brentspeak]

14. I'm not talking about the thoughtful and intelligent people

[MadHound]

19. That's good to hear,

For I have had that label of disruptor and divider tagged on me for daring to point out the myriad Democratic problems, along with accompanying solutions. Sadly, some folks around here aren't as discerning as you are.

[Dover]

23. Indeed. Reminds me of the 'red scare'. Everytime a group wasn't in lockstep

they hauled out the 'red scare'. Was reading the other day about the soldiers who, during the Great Depression, marched on Washington and camped out by the capitol in order to get paid for their promised bonuses. Not only did the powers-that-be begin circulating 'red' rumors about the soldiers but neither Hoover nor FDR (elected immediately following this event) helped the vets with their bonuses. Instead, under MacArther & Eisenhower, the rag tag band of soldiers and their families were surrounded and ousted, and those who resisted were killed or wounded. THAT is our great government.

When corporatists own the government, this is the result. Where then does one democratically inclined civilian stand? Parties, like teams, can be and are owned and ruled by an elite class.

Unfortunately this has been going on for quite some time. If you were to eliminate the bad cop (the Repubs) foil, what/who do the Dems represent?

Wm. Pitt said it eloquently in this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3115963

And historically this has been the case:


From: The Principles of Populism
By: Speech Delivered by Senator J. E. Doom (!!) in the Oklahoma Legislative Council,

January, 1895

... Mr. President, with sorrow, not in anger, I express it as my deliberate conviction that, considering the present condition of this country, brought about by legislation, combined with executive action, for which the Republican and Democratic parties are solely responsible, the People's party is today the only national party whose policies will perpetuate the government founded by the wisdom of Washington and Jefferson and brought by the blood and privations of our fathers and mothers in the war of Revolution, to establish the principle of "Equal rights to all, special privileges to none."

Sir, the time has gone by when the dangers that menace the welfare of the people and the very existence of the government, can be dismissed with a sneer, or be made the subject of jest. History but repeats itself. The man of today is the same creature, with like desires and ambitions as those for whom, in the far distant past, Draco made laws in Athens. Like causes produce like effects. Every student of history knows that, from the days of Draco to the present time, whenever the wealth of a nation has passed into possession of a privileged few, and the mass of the people became miserably poor, that nation sank into ignoble slavery, or, by bloody revolution, righted its economic conditions.

Sir, the American people will never be slaves. They are patient, are long-suffering, but when the cup of their misery is full, to the running over of a single drop, there may be precipitated a condition of things, the thought of which makes my blood run cold. We are traveling the same road traversed by the French people preceding the great revolution of 1789. There, the governing class, the privileged few, with three-fourths of the wealth in their possession, turned a deaf ear to the prayers of the down-trodden millions. That governing class, arrogant from long immunity, sneered at and derided the advice of Turgot, drove Necker into exile. The starving people who cried for bread were hanged on gallows fifty feet high, in order to deter others form the disturbing festivities at the royal palace. But the day of retribution was at hand; the cry of the poor and oppressed had gone up on high. A just God, who is no respecter of persons, poured out the vials of his wrath on the heads of the oppressors. Who can say that punishment was not deserved? They would not listen to Turgot; they would not listen to Necker; they would not heed the admonitions of LaFayette, nor of the Girondists, B but were forced to hearken to the inexorable logic of Robespierre, Marat, and the guillotine.

So today, in our own beloved country, the money power, which Mr. Ingalls characterized as having "No politics but plunder, no principles but the spoliation of the human race,@ acting through gigantic corporations, arrogant in assurance of security afforded by vicious legislative, executive and judicial action, turns a deaf ear to the cries of distress going up from every city and town and from almost every fireside. The cry for bread is answered by volleys of musketry or by imprisonment. Surely, a day of retribution will come. The just God, the omnipotent Jehovah, who as the foundation of political economy for his children in all ages and in every climate, said to each and everyone of Adam's race, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread," and "Thou shalt not steal," will ere long, loose the thunderbolts of his wrath, unless the wrongs of his children are righted. It is the mission of the People=s party to avert that wrath. Like Abraham pleading for Sodom and Gomorrah, the most profound thinkers, the most ardent patriots, eminent men and women in every walk of life, have raised their warning voices.

Mr. President, the time is past when the cry of "calamity howler" is sufficient to close people=s ears to the truth. Facts are stubborn things and events are forcing the truth home to the understanding of immense numbers. It is not only the "impracticable cranks" of the People's party, but the most eminent scholars, statesmen, and jurists, have sounded the note of warning. Listen to John J. Ingalls whose ability and orthodoxy no Republican will dispute; speaking from his place in the national senate, he said: "It is useless to deny the fact that we are on the verge of impending revolution," -- the principle cause being -- "a financial system which allows 31,000 out of a population of 63,000,000 to acquire, mostly within twenty years, over one-half of the immense wealth of this great nation while a million Americans citizens are walking the streets and highways seeking work by which to procure food, NEEDS READJUSTMENT," Again he declares: "Society is becoming rapidly stratified into the superfluous rich, and the people who are becoming hopelessly, miserably poor." ...cont'd

http://history.missouristate.edu/wrmiller/Populism/texts/Documents/principles_of_populism.htm

[manic expression]

30. That was the Bonus Army

and it's little different than the way our government treats veterans today.

It's funny, too, because as a red (I am a Marxist-Leninist, basically), red-baiting seems really ridiculous to me. I mean, here are a bunch of people I COMPLETELY disagree with, but are being branded as having the same beliefs as I do! It's actually funny when you think about it. I wish there were as many socialists in the US as the RW says there are.

[Dover]

36. How is the treatment of Vets different? I think we are headed for a modern version of the Bonus Army

as vets and citizens become completely fed up with their neglect and mistreatment.

[manic expression]

41. I said it was little different

meaning it was basically the same.

However, IMO, it will take a big problem in the economy to get to that point again (as we see the stock market drop).

[Dover]

49. Oh, misread it. Yeah, the faltering economy is already beginning to fuel all that

discontent into a focused rage. The Vets won't be alone...after Katrina and one outrage after another, many people are feeling that they are being treated much like the Vets. All these attempts to keep the country divided and therefore too weak to react to the real culprits is wearing thin.
People are finding their common ground of discontent with the overall direction we are being taken in.

[Judi Lynn]

91. Great points. The right-wing is really keen on flinging around labels at everyone

it doesn't like.

No doubt the ones who attempt to attach red-baiting labels to others have a very feeble grasp of what that label means. They never tend to be well informed.

They apparently think it worked for the alcoholic Joe McCarthy for a while, so it by god should work for them. The objective seems to be to completely devaluate the other person and his/her ideas, and push him/her out of the group.

Not so honorable.

[brentspeak]

39. Encouraging people not to turn against the Democrats on a Democratic site is "a red scare"?

:eyes: :crazy:

[manic expression]

46. It's also for other progressives

not everyone here is a Democrat, and not everyone here blindly supports anyone merely because of their party affiliation; that's the way it should be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. This is a progressive sites

It has NO ALLEGIANCE to the party

Perhaps you should READ the terms of service

[DancingBear]

51. No, that can't be it

We're all disruptors, or trolls, or paid assassins.

Hell, I probably even worked for MoveOn as a precinct captain in Ohio and froze my ass off in NH during primary season AS A RUSE.

My way or the highway - my hypocrisy meter just broke.

Yet again.

[Larry Ogg]

62. Oh MadHound, there you go again… Making truthful statements in stead of just agreeing with the OP.

Reason and unbiased objectivity only makes people think of other possibilities…, of which were executable offences once upon a time. Further more do you actually think Democracy can exist in an atmosphere of divers’ opinion? The founding fathers didn’t write the constitution over night. Oh no, they were adding things and taking things away, rewriting this and rewriting that until they could all agree. And in the end they… well maybe they still didn’t all agree but then… You know the rest of the story!

[alcibiades_mystery]

67. There are fascists of all stripes, even democrats

That the initial post reeks of fascism is obvious enough. That it receives such enthusiastic responses is troubling.

Party hacks are party hacks, no matter what party. They enforce loyalty. How they do so is a matter of degrees, not differences in kind. The OP would be perfectly suited for the Gestapo, or to serve the party as a minor commissar, in principle. A commissar can make any claim at all (paid operatives infiltrating DU is a particularly bone-headed and unsubstantiated claim), because the test is not whether there is evidence, but whether there is loyalty. Loyalty first and foremost, to the Fuhrer, to the Leader, to the Party - whatever. It's fascism.

[DesertRat]

11. 5th recommendation and kick!

[kestrel91316]

12. I won't cave in. I out them with gleeful abandon.

[Parche]

15. TROLLS ARE EVIL

[manic expression]

17. Pretty vague

What type of posts do you mean in specific?

By the way, if "sterner stuff" means supporting office-holders who consistently refuse to make significant changes, give me the other stuff every day and twice on Sunday.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I guess some in the Democratic party

are just as willing to march in lockstep as the Freepers are.

Sorry kids, just because a candidate has a D behind their name does not mean they automatically get my support

Does the name Joe Lieberman ring any bells?

I guess democracy TRULY SCARES THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS out of some folks

By the way, I became an Indie back after the gift to the credit card companies

I watch C-SPAN so I guess I can say that I am better informed than some in what the Dems have done so far (60+ hearings so far) but I am also aware of what they are afraid of doing

So I will remain an indie... and will support DEMS LOCALLY THAT DESERVE SUPPORTING... but I will not support the party until it does what we elected them to do... sorry

If you think that is disrupting, oh well

By the way, many of OUR candidates get their money from the same funding sources as the other side, that IS A FACT and until those moneys are thrown out of the system the low level corruption will continue

And if you want to call me a disruptor so be it

For the record, I don't get paid by anybody... I have a brain. you may want to try that sometime.

[siligut]

20. Good Stuff

Concise and effective. Of course there are defeatists in any effort, so the more we see them, the more effective we are. Reverse psychology at work here, their programing malfunctions at this point.

[EFerrari]

21. AIE anyone?

I'm not a registered Dem but some of the cr@P! I've seen here in the last few days is hauntingly familiar.

FUCK YOU, AIE/EXXON! You can have my vote when you pry it out of my cold dead hands. Some of us have an IQ over 40 and you are as transparent as water -- or, as transparent as water would be without your pollution. :hi:

[madrchsod]

22. they are petulant children that

needs their mouths washed out with soap...

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dover]

28. Indeed. It's become the new normal around here it seems.

Politically correct...and please no substantive discussions that probe too deeply.

Just trying to scare off the independent thinkers who always threaten group-think.

[TheBaldyMan]

59. What examples of groupthink are you on about?

I am genuinely surprised when people are accused of group think here because of the diversity of opinion that does exist.

Herding cats is more in keeping with the folks in DU.

[NNN0LHI]

27. I am not sure who you are talking about?

Everyone posts crazy shit in anger that they don't really mean now and again. Its a way of letting off steam when frustrated. I do it occasionally. Don't mean I am a disruptor or divider.

I think you may be overreacting.

Don

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

29. Disruptor, dischmupter!

We can go at each others' throats, Demo-a-Demo, and we don't need no stinkin' encouragement from repub weasels. We can set ourselves on fire, thanks (hey, how 'bout that Edwards' house - big, ain't it?)

We lack "Disciplined solidarity"? Yeah, I guess "discipline" may not be a Democratic strong suit. An undisciplined mob, we are, at times. Rabble, even. And we should give all that up and turn Repub? Are you Serius?

:rofl:

[porphyrian]

31. But we have the right to cave in if we want to, right? - n/t

[Quantess]

85. Of course you have that right.

Just like one of my neighbor's favorite sayings, "there's no law against being stupid".

[Dover]

32. With party divisions becoming only superficial formalities, I'd say WE THE PEOPLE

of this country are all headed toward a reunification, forming in shared opposition to an oppressive ruling corporatist elite.

Of course the ruling elite of BOTH parties would like to prevent that.

[devilgrrl]

33. I never do - I alert!!!!

Alert alert alert!

[Joe Chi Minh]

34. "Wusses, weaklings, and weasels belong with the GOP, and have no place in the Democratic party."

Precisely. Because you are wrong in your main point. Most of the naysayers/defeatists are indeed Republican operatives, imo.

[H2O Man]

44. Interesting. n/t

[Sadie4629]

38. How pathetic.

Some people need to get a life.

[NobleCynic]

40. Hmm...

Isn't it a bit early for lockstep? We're not even to the primary season yet. Besides, free thinkers tend to drift over to our side of the aisle. Makes it kind of like herding cats anytime you're asking for complete unity.

Not that we couldn't use a bit more discipline, but demanding it just riles up the contrarians. (Myself included.) And scare tactics make it worse.

[brentspeak]

43. DU mods were shutting down all kinds of threads today

Trolls were coming out of the woodwork to out themselves. That's part of the context, if you want to know. Also, what "scare tactics" are you talking about?

[NobleCynic]

47. I must of missed it

Was it really that bad today? Considering the week's news, Gore threads or all threads in general?

In regards to scare tactics comment, it might be a little reactionary, but that is what comes to mind when I hear warnings that any who cause dissent may be paid lurkers, covert disruptors, or similar sentiments. I know such things exist, but the Mods here are pretty on top of things, so I suppose it's easy to forget.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonobo]

45. "Wusses, weaklings, and weasels" -sounds like something Limpalls would say.

[Joe Chi Minh]

52. You got it, Bonobo!

Aren't they horrid, horrid, hateful people! See what a good Democrat I am? Now let me see what's a really nice liberal-sounding u/n I can give myself. I know.. how about Fidel D. Lebowski?

[lonestarnot]

55. Sterner stuff reporting for duty sir/madam.

:patriot:

[Joe Chi Minh]

90. Interesting that he says, YOU, not WE, are made of sterner stuff.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

57. As a give the benefit of the doubt person, I am finding myself limiting that benefit, since it seems

be used as an exploitation tactic against us open minded types.

Fortunately, if they're the closed minded types, their tactic, regardless of the execution, is very self limited. And, yes, it provides some probably too gleeful enjoyment for the more rapier witted DU'ers among us. :-)

The ones who are harder to spot seem to be almost...amoral. They will don the hat of "believer" and join in with the edicts of the group and genuinely enjoy the interactions while knowing all the time they are a poseur, and not caring. It takes longer to discern, because they have the ability to calculatedly advance conversations, but they eventually get smug and decide they are ready to launch their disruption scheme and then, well, aloha, :hi: MKJ

[GeorgeGist]

61. Tell it to Reid

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. Thomas Jefferson's thoughts on party loyalty.

Sentiments that I heartily agree with even if he was a "wuss, weakling, and weasel".

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795

And, with Bob Dylan:

“Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote,
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note.
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple,
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people.
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins
He's eatin' bullshit!)”

Bob Dylan

[DrunkenMaster]

75. we must be strong and unified..

...like a "bundle of sticks". Oh, wait....

[NoGOPZone]

80. I think you've seen one too many Simpsons episodes

I know because I also suffer from that disease.

[aikoaiko]

77. This post is ironic coming from you.

You were (before you got banned) one of the biggest dividers around. Too many people weren't "Democratic" enough for you if I recall correctly.

[Marie26]

83. I like disruptors & dividers

They keep things interesting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Perhaps you should read the intro to who we

are at Democratic Underground


"2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates."

Perhaps you will get it, this is not a place with ALLEGIANCE to the Democratic Party.

Is this clear enough for you?

Oh and by the way, the party has large problems... and they will be pointed out by people who have a tad more of brains and a lot less of your kind of "loyalty."