so, I'm getting Audited by the IRS, have no insurance & Failing health

[Ichingcarpenter]

NO job, no income, no doctors

But they at

Attack Me?

I refuse to pay or register
for this OBSCENITY.


How can you do this?

MORALLY?


ANY MORE?

HOW CAN YOU?

[qanda]

1. What reason did they give?

[thunder rising]

2. Another non-bitter citizen speaks up!

I know your situation. I feel like I'm in a death race between getting Obama into office and the end of my world.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Pay your Taxes to promote the War and Torture

that is what a 'real citizen does'......


don't question shit.........

and you won't get questioned on your priorities.......

Happy April 15th!!!!


No taxation, without Representation!

IF you think YOU ARE GETTING THAT?


PAY the bill at the Restaurant of your inadequate democracy.
The service sucks, and the food is not worth eating.

[PetraPooh]

4. Unless you've failed to pay your taxes, an audit shouldn't be a problem.

I'm a bit confused. . . do you know that you haven't paid? Attack you? Wow, that's some strong wording. I thought Democrats liked public programs, so it seems odd to be giving a Libertarian/Republican type rant over an audit.

[Warpy]

5. Kicking people when they are down is not a value I support

Audits are done at random and most are done of lower income workers. People with great wealth are rarely audited, if ever. The government would rather spend millions on audits to nickel and dime working people to death.

The IRS is used as another weapon against working people. A look at their auditing profiles is very convincing.

Since you're guessing at what Democrats think, I suggest you sit back for a while and read this site rather than making silly comments based on what talk radio tells you Democrats think.

[PetraPooh]

9. I don't listen to talk radio. And you can't have both "random" and

"profiled," which are they? Since many are in fact random, of course there will be more lower income audits, but that doesn't reflect with any kind of validity an intent to cause lower income workers any harm. Since their are more it makes sense that random selection would put more to be audited, it isn't a scheme. I personally have not known but one middle class couple get audited, yet I know of 7 upper-middle to lower-upper that have been audited.
And audits are assigned for many reasons; too many errors on too many years returns, failure to file returns when your employer has filed his w-3's and w-2's, or when your investment and banking company's file their 1096's & 1099's showing income given. Which based on this person's extreme anger is most likely what's happened. He just didn't think he needed to file his returns even though he had reported income. He's just pissed cuz he got caught and is going to have to answer for his NOT-Democratic choices. The really ridiculous thing is that often people like him, had they done their returns and taken the time to do them correctly, they would have found they were getting money back. Now if he hasn't filed his returns, even if he would've gotten money back, they will still slap a penalty on him for not filing. Bad on him.

And my comments regarding libertarian/republican talking points still stand. This OP sounds like one when he says things like "But they at

Attack Me?

I refuse to pay or register
for this OBSCENITY."

He refuses to pay or register? That's a extreme Libertarianism. The whole idea of an audit being "an attack" is Libertarianism. Libertarians don't want to be taxes because they don't want social programs, community advancements, or to bridge employment/wage inequality. These are not Democratic principles for anything I've ever learned.

Oh, and by the way, the OP says he's uninsured and has medical bills; this doesn't mean he has no money. There are folks that have plenty in banks and investments that have no insurance, no job, and medical bills. He could've been earning and banking $100k's or even $1M's before this that he owes taxes on, but is only telling us what will create outrage.

And I never listen to talk radio or talk tv. Doesn't interest me, never has. But I am damned sick of people acting like the IRS is their enemy, without it and without them doing those audits, their would be no money for the programs Democrats hold so dear. Now it will take a Dem President to get that money out of the war/defense industry and back into the health/education industries (for example) but that money does need to be collected.

[Fumesucker]

10. Failing health, no job, no income, no doctors..

Yep, sounds like a millionaire all right..

And the name is a dead giveaway too.. Ichingcarpenter.

We all know that carpenters make the megabucks. Particularly so now that all the illegals have been run out of the country and companies are having to hire US citizens only for all jobs.

And yes, when you don't have any resources, an audit does feel like an attack.

And you are assuming there is going to be a Democratic president, a very big unwarranted assumption, IMO.

[PetraPooh]

12. I didn't say it was, I said could be. And I just don't buy the BS that it is

acceptable to use Libertarian terms when discussing IRS and taxes. And I refuse to accept that a Democratic president is a "very big unwarranted assumption," I guess I'm too optimistic; but I won't be changing that.

[Bonobo]

27. You can tell alot from names and words.

The person you are arguing with referred to "Democrats" as if he/shi/it was from a seperate category.

Also, they have "Poo" in their name. That is what they are flinging.

I suggest you find a better class of people to talk to.

[Ichingcarpenter]

17. X-Special Education Teacher for 9 years-Don't tell me about SERVICE

To the community and this nation! Yeah, teachers are making a shit load these days.

Actually, I have talked to an expert on this and the
Government will end up owing me money.

But it is ridiculous that a political activist
has to put up with this shit.

[PetraPooh]

19. What shit. If you've filed and paid your taxes, what's the problem with an audit.

Please explain why you are so pissed about a simple audit? Why should teachers or political activists be exempt from audits. Your anger and indignation make absolutely no sense to me. What you're so busy, you don't have time to be audited? You did your best but fear it won't be good enough regarding your filings? Please explain.

[Ichingcarpenter]

20. I don't explain to people like you

after you have insulted me.

[WillowTree]

22. Are they doing a full-blown audit or just asking for more info?

If you did file a return and did so honestly, what do you have to fear from an audit? And if you had "no income" as you said and were, therefore, not required to file a return, what is there for them to audit?

Then again, if the expert that you've consulted is telling you that the IRS owes you money (other than the "stimulus" money), then you necessarily must have had some income, so something's not quite adding up here. But if you just want to be pissed about the "unfairness" of it all and don't care to explain why you think it's so unfair in your case, that's fine by me, too.

[PetraPooh]

28. I agree it has sounded a bit fishy; and he doesn't answer, and he uses

short, little, aggressive snipes to give the impression of explaining, evidenced from his OP till now.

[PetraPooh]

26. I have in no way insulted you; but you have made your "problem" clear now.

You over-react to anyone asking you anything or being evaluated in any way. My previous posts do not attack you, but you imagine they have. I think perhaps you protest too much.

[Bonobo]

29. You attacked from the beginning. An objective reading makes that clear.

The question is why, Poo-boy? What is your agenda? Or...are you just a hater?

Some of us do NOT appreciate paying taxes which go towards weapons, war and killing while our educational system, infrastructure, social security, economy go to shit.

You should find another website, poo-flinger.

[PetraPooh]

33. Because taxes are a necessary part of the Democratic agenda and I don't

like reading Libertarian rants on DU. That being the case, I didn't attack, I observed inconsistencies, lack of information, and I asked about them.

[Bonobo]

34. I saw a man who was worried about his lack of job, health and income.

Someone who could have used some encouraging words.

You saw the opportunity to plant the flag and be a total asshole in the process.

Have a great fucking day!

[PetraPooh]

36. You sure twist shit. I always have a great day, thanks!

[Bonobo]

38. And you sure fling it.

Pricks always have good days. Cause they don't really care about injuring others.

[PetraPooh]

39. Fling shit? Please show me where I did any flinging of any shit?

And you have the wrong sex, I'm a bitch but not a prick.

[Bonobo]

43. Poo:

"I'm a bit confused. . . do you know that you haven't paid? Attack you? Wow, that's some strong wording. I thought Democrats liked public programs, so it seems odd to be giving a Libertarian/Republican type rant over an audit."

'Rant'; 'Republican' to a guy who posted about all sorts of problems in his life?

Iching is a good poster. I thought you were callous.

[PetraPooh]

45. He's ranting for pity, I don't do pity without cause. That said,

He was ranting, that is an observation, did you read the OP?
Republican? I believe I said over and over Libertarian.

[WillowTree]

48. If he had "no income", what is it that the IRS is proposing to audit?

That's among the questions that he doesn't seem to be interested in answering. It is, after all, called "income" tax for a reason. If there's no income, there can be no income tax. It gets real damned simple at that point, no?

I'm not saying that I think he hasn't got a legitimate beef because there is nowhere near enough information to make such a determination. But he sure seems reluctant to explain a few simple things that could make it all clear one way or the other. And I can't help but wonder why.

[Bonobo]

49. I took "No income" to mean essentially "very little income".

And anyway you slice it, an audit will require that you expend either time or money (same thing).

Furthermore, it is stressful to hear. What if the OP has bad records? Should he be fucked over for that?

Anyway, it just makes me sick to hear knee-jerk attacks on a DUer -DEFENDING THE FUCKING IRS.

[WillowTree]

50. If he keeps "bad records" then he sure does have a problem.

But that's not anyone else's fault, including the IRS. It doesn't take a degree in finance (or anything else) and it doesn't cost a thing to keep bills and receipts and such and pharmacies/doctor's offices will give you a print-out of your accounts at the end of the year if you ask them to. If someone doesn't have things like that, then how on earth do they decide how much to take for whatever deduction? Do they just guess? And if so, is that supposed to be sufficient?

Sorry, but at that point I would lose sympathy. If someone can't back the return they filed, then they should be freaked by an audit notice, but they have no one to blame but themselves.

Believe me, I'm a financial imbecile, but I don't fear an IRS audit because I file based on the income I made and only claim deductions I can prove. If only everything in my life could be that simple.

[Bonobo]

51. Let me get this straight -you're saying our tax filing system is "simple"!? WTF?

It's devilishly complex and it changes each year. Which part is simple?

[WillowTree]

52. Oh come on.

Exactly how complex can a tax return be when someone has little or no income?

[Freeusfromthechurch]

53. This might shed some light on his frustration

This might shed some light on his frustration of getting audited by a illegal business called the IRS.
Check out the documentary below...it will wake you up from the deep sleep and smack you across the room...as you say "holy shit"

America: Freedom to Fascism

Copy and past:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=freedom+to+fascism&total=1595&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0&hl=en

[WillowTree]

54. Sorry.

You refer to "a illegal business called the IRS" and I tune out.

Have a pleasant day.

[Fumesucker]

21. If you aren't at least a little bit scared of an audit

You're an idiot.. IMO..

The I.R.S. audited 1.36 percent of all tax returns filed by people making less than $25,000 last year, compared with 1.15 percent of returns filed by those making $100,000 or more. Since 1988, audit rates for the poor have increased by a third, from 1.03 percent, while falling 90 percent for the wealthiest Americans, from 11.4 percent.

Since there are a lot more people making less than 25K than there are making more than 100K then it is quite clear that low income wage earners are getting far more than their share of audits.

[PetraPooh]

25. I'm an accountant most of my early years, I don't fear audits even a little. I have been

"in charge" for at least a dozen corporate audits, from IRS to Payroll to State and State Sales tax. So I'm not an idiot, I've found however that most IRS auditors are not nearly the evil people you all try to make them out to be. If you keep your documents and haven't done anything knowingly wrong, you won't have a problem. I've never had anything but amicable relations with auditors. Perhaps that's why I don't have the problems you fear. If you treat them like the enemy, perhaps it causes them to behave like the enemy.

[Fumesucker]

30. LOL,, An accountant..

No wonder you like the idea of audits, more money in your pocket.

It is the unfamiliar which is frightening and most people are unfamiliar with an audit.

most IRS auditors are not nearly the evil people you all try to make them out to be

Which means that some of them are the evil people..

And you never know which you are going to get.

[PetraPooh]

32. Audits don't give me more money. I am not a CPA and have never worked for one.

And I'm not even in the business anymore. But I assure you that an Accountant or Controller get paid exactly the same whether a company is audited or not; well unless you've made mistakes that cost the company money, I suppose. Never been there, wouldn't know.

Some of all groups of people are evil; so are you saying that everyone everywhere part of any group should be approached with hatred and animosity? You sound like a repub.

[Fumesucker]

40. How would I know?

Like most people, I'm not a financial whiz.. I'm just a regular guy trying to keep his head down and just get by in the world. It is simply not possible to be an expert on everything and I have more than enough to learn and keep track of just trying to keep body and soul together.

I'm saying that when one is dealing with an organization that can turn an already difficult life to a total hell, it pays to be a little paranoid.

I just watched you give some poor slob (the OP) more or less the third degree because he was a bit freaked out over getting audited.. Freaking over an audit is a common and not entirely unwarranted reaction. The first, and natural, reaction is "why the hell are they auditing me? I haven't done anything wrong." And then you start to worry about whether you screwed up somewhere (or even worse, your tax preparer screwed up) and the tension mounts.

[PetraPooh]

35. So are you suggesting I should be ashamed of being an accountant? Even if

I worked for a CPA firm or even the IRS, you think I should be ashamed because of your unfounded fear?

[Fumesucker]

41. Where did I say that?

You sure seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something.

It's been my experience in life that people with specialized knowledge often assume that the average person should have that knowledge also.

For most people, accounting is an arcane art and the great majority of people don't want to deal with it.

When I try to explain what I do (electronic and electromechanical troubleshooting) to people, I start with the assumption that they know virtually nothing about my particular skill (true most of the time) and then if they show that they can follow more than a Cliff's Notes version of what I do I go into more detail.

In this thread you did just the opposite, you assumed that the OP was knowledgeable of audits and was deliberately trying to hide something. That is why you got a hostile reaction.

[PetraPooh]

46. I have no chip. Please read your post #30, it implies strongly that

being an accountant is somehow profiting from the worries and fears of others.

[WillowTree]

11. Could you cite a source for your claims?

Some returns are chosen for audit at random but most are instigated by "triggers", certain things that the IRS (or more likely their computers these days) are trained to look for where errors and fraud are most often found. If you're self-employed and show an income of $125,000 and business expenses of $95,000, it would be wise to dot every single "i" and cross every last "t" and have credible documentation to back up every dollar of it because you can pretty well count on a little sit-down with the IRS. Same deal if you earned $40,000 and claim $15,000 in charitible contributions.

But if you're filing income from W-2s and only claiming things such as standard deductions, mortgage interest, property taxes and IRA contributions, chances are better than not that the IRS isn't going to waste their time auditing you unless you do something foolish to draw attention to yourself like failing to sign your return, or filing a return with excessive corrections and "white-outs", or math errors because there would be no point. And particularly for lower-income taxpayers, there's little excuse for those "attnetion getters" since most people who earn $54,000/year or less can get free tax prep (often with free e-file) online from services who have arranged with the IRS to provide same.

The simpler your return is, the less there is for the IRS to question ergo the less chance they'll bother with an audit, and it stands to reason that the lower one's income, the more straightforward his return is likely to be because most of it is already documented. Usually it's the more complex returns that raise the interest of the IRS and the medical biller with a couple of kids making $27,000/year isn't likely to be filing one of those.

[yewberry]

14. Not a new story

but here is one anyway.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405E1DA1731F935A25757C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

[Fumesucker]

16. From the link tofunut provided..

The I.R.S. audited 1.36 percent of all tax returns filed by people making less than $25,000 last year, compared with 1.15 percent of returns filed by those making $100,000 or more. Since 1988, audit rates for the poor have increased by a third, from 1.03 percent, while falling 90 percent for the wealthiest Americans, from 11.4 percent.

[Warpy]

23. Try here

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=92

also

"The IRS claims that it audits a higher percentage of low income tax payers than middle income tax payers. Many tax benefits are offered to low income tax payers and the IRS said that many low income tax payers do not file tax returns and abuse the earned income tax credit. Earned income tax credit is a tax credit offered to low income tax payers only. So, if you are a low income tax payer, according to the IRS, your chances of an IRS audit is higher than average.

"Low income tax payers are also easier IRS audit targets because low income tax payers are less likely to be able to afford legal or professional assistance with the IRS audit and are therefore less likely to be able to assert their legal tax rights during an IRS tax audit."

http://www.irs-audit.net/Chances_of_IRS_audit.html

Stories of the IRS's lopsided targeting of poorer taxpayers abound out there. I'm sure your own search will turn up hundreds.

[Vinca]

6. They're going after you because you're low hanging fruit.

The fat cats can hire an attorney to defend them. If you have no income, you owe no taxes. Unless you want your life to become a living hell (or more so than it is), show up and act like you want to be helpful. Belligerent is the last thing you want to be with these people.

[Elspeth]

7. Is there any free legal aid in your area?

Maybe someone on DU could donate some hours to help you.

[lunatica]

8. Contact the ACLU (a link is in the body of text below)

http://www.aclu.org/affiliates/index.html

[Cleita]

13. IRS does audits at random and usually they don't even tell you.

Every now and then they notify people to get their receipts together for an audit. I have noticed a trend though to audit lower income people because many will have to do their own taxes. They know that Mr. $$$ has professional tax preparers and lawyers behind him so they tend to not bother unless it's a high profile case like "only the little people pay taxes" Leona Helmsley.

Get your receipts together to the best of your ability and grin and bear it. Usually, it's painless if you've been honest. I do suggest being pleasant and humble to the auditor. Wringing your hands and blaming them, only makes them dig their heels in further. I personally hate the IRS because they were set up as a sort of police agency within the Department of the Treasury and have a lot of the same attitude.

Maybe one of these days on our fix it list of what is wrong with America, we can convince our Congresspeople to ban the agency and take tax collection back under the Department of Treasury where it belongs.

[WillowTree]

18. Low income earners can get online tax prep for free.

There's a whole list of online tax services where you can do your return for free if you earn less than $54,000/year and even get free e-file, as well. All you need is your records and W-2s to work from and, if necessary, a library card or other access to a computer with Internet access and I've never had to pay for a library card, so that ought not to be an issue for the vast majority.

Of course, we do have to get the word out to those people that these programs are available to them. I'm sure many of them are just unaware, but availing themselves of these services could help a lot of low-income wage earners to avoid problems by enhancing the accuracy of their returns.

[Cleita]

24. A free tax preparer service isn't the same as Mr. $$$'s

tax lawyer. There are many ways to get help even from the IRS, but they can't stand behind you if you are audited because they don't have the influence of a knowledgable tax attorney. The best thing that the OP can do is go to his audit, receipts and hat in hand, and smile. He can also petition to refile his taxes, I believe, if he feels he can't back up his return with the right receipts.

[PetraPooh]

31. Actually Mr. $$$'s CPA has Mr. $$$ sign a release saying he is only

responsible for accurately categorizing the information Mr. $$$'s gives him, accurate computing, and is completely not responsible for any decisions made based on the claims of Mr. $$$'s. So if Mr. $$$ says, for example, that he has $15,000 in charitable donations, the CPA does not audit the information for accuracy and only comments on whether something is charitable IF Mr. $$$ specifically asks about a specific situation. Or if Mr. $$$ says he traveled 100,000 miles for business, the CPA does not check to make sure the care was driven at least 100,000 miles. He gives out advice, even asks some questions, but he takes Mr. $$$'s word for the answers. Now perhaps it would be different for MR. small guy, who brings in a shoe box of receipts and cancelled checks, but MR. $$$ isn't going to be doing that, he is going to hand over #'s and very little actual documentation.

[Cleita]

37. Mr. $$$ tax lawyer can get away with that because he can tie

up an audit for years wasting an auditor's time. Most likely they won't go after him preferring to shake down Mr. Joe Sixpack instead whose records are easier to get.

[WillowTree]

44. I wasn't comparing the free services...

....to what you refer to as "Mr. $$$" to represent them at an audit. I was responding to your assertion that low-income taxpayers usually have to do their taxes themselves, which isn't true anymore. For simple returns, which would be the case with the vast majority of low-income earners even with the EIC, using tax software, either purchased or online for free, reduces the chances of missing forms or errors in arithmetic exponentially. And if they do get audited then, as you say, they need just go in with their documentation and deal with it. If they can prove their return, then they should be OK. If not and an error was made, then they need to pay whatever additional they owe. If one person is able to shuck and jive his or her way out of it, that's not a good thing, but it doesn't, and shouldn't, relieve another of their responsibility to pay what they owe or demonstrate that they have already done so, if necessary.

[Cleita]

47. You are absolutely right however even with all the free help

out there you are still on your own when the auditor comes aknocking on your door. Mr. $$$ will always have his $250 an hour attorneys and accountants flanking him, which is why the auditors usually pass him by. They know he's probably overstating his deductions but it will be too hard to pin it on him, so they would rather move on to more low hanging fruit as another poster put it. I know people who work for the IRS and they readily admit this.

[Horse with no Name]

15. It's because you are an easy target

The IRS targets folks like you because you have no means to fight back against them and they know it.
You would think they would be going after the ones who owe millions--but the problem is, most of THOSE FOLKS can still afford to fight back.
Good luck to you.

[Rosemary2205]

42. The IRS has been attracted to sick people for a very long time.

Any drastic change in your income is likely to trigger an audit.

I've been audited 3 times in 5 years. Though the first 2 were actually done the same year about 4 months apart. (the first audit was on a 2 year old return at that point)

1. The year of the car accident and my sister filed a 6 month extension twice to buy time until she could assemble the paperwork to file on mine and my husband's behalf.

2. The following year when my entire income was SSDI.

3. The year I managed to get back to work.