Do Political Scientists Have The Wrong View Of America

[erpowers]

I have been reading "America the Unusual" by John Kingdon. Kingdon is a highly respected Political Scientist. His book "Agendas, Alternatives, and Public Policies" is a Political Science classic.

In "America the Unusual" Kingdon argues that American politics skews center right. He also claims that Americans hate high taxes. I question those statements in that polls seem to show a different opinion. For years I have heard about opinion polls in which the majority of people surveyed said they wanted universal healthcare. In addition, there have been polls that seemed to show people would have preferred President Bush not give large tax cuts, but use the money for other purposes. So, are the polls wrong? Are the Political Scientists wrong?

[OwnedByFerrets]

1. I believe its all in how the question is posed.

A person can be persuaded to almost anything if the question is asked in a certain way. Repugs are kings of doing just that.

[Thothmes]

2. JMO

Americans hate high taxes if they are the ones paying them. "Tax the wealthy" is a mantra popular on this forum. It sells well politically, until you are included in the "wealthy" catagory for tax purposes. As far as universal healthcare is concerned, if the poll question was "would you pay $3500 a year in taxes for Universal Health Care"' the numbers supporting the proposal would change. Opinions on what constitute high taxes is based on who's ox is being gored at the time. Personally, I would not want to pay $3500 a year for Universal Health coverage. Why, I retired from the U.S. Navy, I have a very good health plan already, why should I pay that kind of tax for something I get for free? It all depends on a persons prespective of the issue.
As I said before, my opinion only.

[supernova]

8. Must correct this.

Much like climate change, Universal Healthcare is coming to the US, period. US citizens and employers alike will start to bitch and moan too much about the too high cost of privatized insurance.

Keep your opinion, but consider this:

Our peer countries in the G8 (UK, France, Germany,) and virtually every industrialized nation spend much less than $3500/year/person, and they get far more bang for their buck er Euro, actually.

"Why, I retired from the U.S. Navy, I have a very good health plan already, why should I pay that kind of tax for something I get for free? "

Actually you don't get it for free. It's only "free" to you at the POS (Point of Service) I and every other taxpayer pays for it. You're welcome. However, the rest of us who aren't military have a right to the same kind of healthcare arrangement as you have.

[Thothmes]

13. I am perfectly aware that my health care is not free.

I fully understand that it is paid for by taxes. Just like free public schools are paid for by taxes. I apologize in using that as an example of how a point of view would influence a decision on an important issue as Universal health care. But again IMO, a significant number of people who espouse support for Universal health care, will choke when the tax man comes to collect for it. Particularly if they have an existing health care plan that costs them less than they may be taxed for.

[Selatius]

14. That depends on how you tax people to pay for it.

If you rolled back tax cuts on capital gains for day traders and used the revenue to pay for single-payer health insurance, you'd get a different response than if you levied a 23 percent payroll tax on everybody who gets most of their money from payroll income, which is basically all of working class America.

In France, the Social Security payroll tax is 23 percent or around there. If they wanted a more progressive way to pay for universal health insurance, they'd shift it over to an income tax and make it progressive so the wealthiest pay more than the poorest.

[Thothmes]

18. What ever method is used to fund the program

It must !!! generate sufficient income to fully fund the program without drawing on general revenues. Any combination of income tax, capital gain tax, service fees, etc is ok by me. But the program must pay for itself. If not, Congress and the President will have the political power to strangle the program. As an example, take a look at the Medicare reimbursement rates of today an what they were say 10-15 years ago. IMO any tax established to support universal health care needs to be auto indexable to cover costs.

[Echo In Light]

3. The question is framed in a very generalized manner

It depends on the individual who is a political scientist. If one wishes to be successful professionally in this field {or any from a long list}, there are simply certain views and questions that aren't going to be entertained by those who wish to succeed.

If A, B and C are commonplace, acceptable, as in, it's a long established talking point/rhetoric of the corporate/state nexus, favored propaganda, etc, than many seeking their profession in the field will naturally abide those favored views, and not go beyond to D, as to not make waves.

For instance, I've heard Chomsky reply to interviewers as, you wouldn't be sitting there in the position you're in if you thought differently {from establishment propaganda} which always seeks to trivialize and/or disavow the crimes of America.

[rucky]

4. Ask 3 political scientists a question

and you'll get 8 different opinions.

[Juche]

5. Maybe

Our politics are probably center-right compared to Europe, but they are to the left of national politicians. The problem is alot of people with liberal or progressive tendencies (blacks, asians, latinos, the disabled, the poor, the young) have low voter turnout. So if everyone in this country actually voted our politics would be to the left.

On another note the current GOP has moved so far to the right that the public now disagree with them on virtually every issue and agree with the democrats.

[Kitty Herder]

6. Check out this impressive set of polling data indicating just the opposite.

http://www.zmag.org/zspace/commentaries/3491

[erpowers]

7. Link Not Working

The link you provided is not working for me. It is saying that since I am not a sustainer I cannot look at the information on that page.

[Kitty Herder]

9. I'm sorry. Now, when I click on that link, it says the same thing.

I didn't realize it would do that since I obviously was on the page when I linked to it, despite not being a sustainer. Now I can't look at the same page I read and linked to earlier this morning. Sigh. Znet is a pain in the arse sometimes and totally unpredictable. Sometimes it lets me read nightly commentaries and sometimes it doesn't.

I apologize. I wish I had printed out a copy of that article so I would have the polling information, cause I can't get to it now.

[Kitty Herder]

12. Here's a link to a copy of the article posted on another forum. This link works. For now.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/resources/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4570&sid=3d42e8379e5e4578d63c54e5e42ac439

I'll paste in the statistics cited, but be warned; it's long.

Here are some key poll findings mentioned in the instructive fourth chapter of Adams and Derber's study:

* 69 percent of U.S. voters agree that "government should care for those who cannot care for themselves" (Pew Research, 2007).

* 54 percent of voters agree that "government should help the needy even if it means greater debt" (Pew Research, 2007).

* 58 percent of Americans believe the U.S. government should be doing more for its citizens, not less (National Elections Survey, 2004).

* Twice as many Americans back more government services and spending (even if this means a tax increase) as the number who support fewer services and reduced spending (National Elections Survey, 2004).

* 64 percent of Americans would pay higher taxes to guarantee health care for all U.S. citizens (CNN Opinion Research Poll, May 2007).

* 69 percent of Americans think it is the responsibility of the federal government to provide health coverage to all U.S. citizens (Gallup Poll, 2006).

* 80 percent of Americans support a government-mandated increase in the minimum wage (Associated Press/AOL Poll, December 2006).

* 86 percent of Americans want Congress to pass legislation to raise the federal minimum wage (CNN, August 2006).

* 71 percent of Americans think that taxes on corporations are too low (Gallup Poll, April 2007).

* 66 percent of Americans think taxes on upper-income people are too low (Gallup Poll, April 2007).

* 59 percent of Americans are favorable toward unions, with just 29 percent unfavorable (Gallup Poll, 2006).

* 52 percent of Americans generally side with unions in labor disputes. Just 34 percent side with management (Gallup Poll, 2006).

* 57 percent of Americans want to keep abortion legal in all or most cases (Washington Post/ABC News, 2007).

* 78 percent of Americans think "women should have an equal role with men in running business, industry, and government" (National Elections Survey, 2004).

* 57 percent of Americans support programs which "give special preference to qualified women and minorities in hiring" (Pew Poll, 2003).

* A majority of American voters think that the United States' "most urgent moral question" is either "greed and materialism" (33 percent) or "poverty and economic injustice" (31 percent). Just 16 percent identify abortion and 12 percent pick gay marriage as the nation's "most urgent moral question" (Zogby, 2004). Thus, nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of the population think that injustice and inequality are the nation's leading "moral issues."

* 67 percent of Americans think the U.S. should emphasize diplomatic and economic means over military methods in combating terrorism (Public Agenda and Foreign Affairs, 2007).

* Just 15 percent of Americans think the U.S. should play "the leading role in the world" (Gallup Poll. February 2007) - a remarkable rejection of U.S. global hegemony and empire.

* 58 percent of Americans think the U.S. should play "a major role but not the leading role in the world" (Gallup Poll, February 2007).

* 62 percent of Americans in September of 2007 thought the invasion of Iraq was "a mistake" (CBS News, September 2007).

* A majority of Americans want a firm deadline for U.S. withdrawal from Iraq (Washington Post/ABC News, February 2007).

* 70 percent of Americans want a multilateral nuclear disarmament treaty (Pew Poll, November 2005).



Here are some other relevant survey findings not reported in Adams and Derber's book:

* "When voters surveyed were asked to list the moral issue that most affected their vote, the Iraq War placed first at 42 percent, while 13 percent named abortion and 9 percent named gay marriage" <1>.

* 73 percent of Americans think preventing the spread of nuclear weapons should be a very important goal of U.S. foreign policy, compared to 50 percent who think maintaining a superior military worldwide should be a very important goal (Chicago Council on Foreign Relations , "Global Views," October 2004). Survival here trumps hegemony as a top global aim for citizens.

* Just 29 percent of Americans support the expansion of government spending on "defense." By contrast, 79 percent support increased spending on health care, 69 percent support increased spending on education, and 69 percent support increased spending on Social Security (CCFR, "Global Views,"2004).

* 58 percent of Americans in 2004 did not think the U.S. should have long-term military bases in Iraq (CCFR, 2004).

* 59 percent of Americans in 2004 thought the U.S. should remove its military presence form the Middle East if that's what the majority of people there want (CCFR, 2004).

* 72 percent of Americans in 2004 thought the U.S. should remove its military presence form Iraq if that's what the majority of people there want (CCFR, 2004)<2>.

* To counter terrorism, 87 percent of Americans think the U.S. should work through the United Nations (UN) to strengthen international law and make sure that the UN enforces that law; 67 percent think the U.S. should work to develop poor economies; 64 percent think the U.S. should make a major effort to be even-handed in the Israel-Palestine conflict. Just 29 percent think the U.S. should use torture to extract information from terrorists.

* 77 percent of Americans think the U.S. has the unilateral right to go to war only if the U.S. has strong evidence it is in imminent danger of being attacked (53 percent) or (24 percent)if the other country attacks first (CCFR, 2004).

* 89 percent of Americans reject the United States' right to overthrow a government supporting terrorists who might pose a threat to the U.S. without UN approval (CCFR, 2004).

* 79 percent of Americans reject the first use of nuclear weapons and 22 percent reject the use of nuclear weapons ever (CCFR, 2004).

* Two thirds (66 percent) of Americans think the US should be more willing to make international relations decisions within the UN even if this means the U.S. will sometimes have to go along with a policy that is not it first choice (CCFR, 2004).

* Fifty-nine percent of Americans favor dropping the veto power granted to the five permanent members of the UN Security Council, including the United States (CCFR, 2004).

* Fifty-seven percent of Americans favor general compliance with the decisions of the World Court, not just case-by-case (as under current US policy) compliance (CCFR, 2004).

* Seventy-four percent of Americans favor giving the UN a standing peacekeeping force selected, trained, and commanded by the UN (CCFR, 2004).

* Fifty-seven percent of Americans favor giving the UN the right to regulate the international arms trade (CCFR, 2004).

* Seventy-six percent of Americans think the US should participate in the International Criminal Court, with powers to try individual American military and other officials for war crimes even if their own country will not prosecute them of such crimes (CCFR, 2004).

* Seventy-one percent of Americans think the US should participate in the Kyoto Accord on global warming (CCFR, 2004).

* Ninety-three percent of Americans support minimum standards in international trade agreements for working conditions and 91 percent support minimum standards for environmental protection.

[Zynx]

10. Well, Republicans have won more presidential elections than Democrats so there might be something

to this idea.

[BlooInBloo]

11. "American politics skews center right" - Is he talking about the governors or the governees?

(with quotes to back up answer)

[Radical Activist]

15. Our form of government does not represent the will of the people.

That's the basic problem. Our government tends to the right toward the agenda of economic elites. A parliamentary system like most of Europe has would result in liberal policies that more accurately reflect the public.

[Selatius]

16. The Senate is prime example of the rightward skew. For example, ...

The state of California has roughly 38 million people. It gets two seats in the US Senate. The state of Mississippi has just under 3 million people. It, too, gets two seats in the US Senate. There's your rightward bias.

You can have a state like Mississippi essentially canceling out the vote of a state like California, which is over 12 times its size.

If you wanted a more democratic form of representation, you'd make the House run on party-list proportional representation, and you'd have senate seats apportioned according to population, so a large state gets more seats than a smaller state.

To keep a two-party system from emerging in the Senate, simply require that each Senate district require that the winner of the seat is the winner of the majority of the vote. If nobody wins a majority in the ballot, have a run-off election like what France utilizes for its General Assembly.

In the House, you'd vote for the party. In the Senate, you'd vote for the person, but you'd do away with the idea that small states can have disproportionate representation in any chamber.

Also, junk the Electoral College and elect presidents by popular vote, and if no one gets a majority of the vote, have a run-off election between the top two candidates. In such a situation, Gore would've won against Bush.

[Posteritatis]

17. Political scientists aren't a monolith. (nt)